1198 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

I presume he's referring to how you didn't provide him with equally strong arguments. On several occasions, he seems to point out that he is objectively explaining/describing the plot, whilst you're apparently looking at it from a primarily subjective point of view.

At least, that's what I understood from him.

[BAOBAB_AOTEAROA]

as a matter of fact, i think, you gave smudboy some intresting points to think about by directly refuting and addressing some of his points, especially about the beginning of ME2 where i think he used his own subjective view, and expressing opinions not facts. you also did the same in some parts of the vids, and that is perfectly fine and natural, anyway i have to say nice job,both of you.
thanks

[squee913]

BAOBAB_AOTEAROA wrote...

as a matter of fact, i think, you gave smudboy some intresting points to think about by directly refuting and addressing some of his points, especially about the beginning of ME2 where i think he used his own subjective view, and expressing opinions not facts. you also did the same in some parts of the vids, and that is perfectly fine and natural, anyway i have to say nice job,both of you.
thanks

Thanks! I sent him a message telling him that any other responses he makes will be approved as replies to my videos so everyone can see them. I also will not be responding to the responses since that will accomplish nothing. He is more than welcome to have the last word. If my arguments are good, they will hold up regardless. Hell, I even invited him to be a guest on my Mass Effect 2 with friends Let's Play. Don't know if he will accept, but I really have nothing against the guy.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I think that says a lot about you, Squee. Smud is a nice guy as long as the other end doesn't take unnecessary tones. He's just a bit difficult to have debates with, lol!

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 24 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

squee913 wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

squee913 wrote...

Just watched Smud's Video and approved it as a response to my video. I am curious.... Does anyone who has seen my videos, whether you agreed or not, think that I completely ignored all of SmudBoy's arguments? According to him, I just ignored all his points and told some make believe story... After watching it, I don't even need to respond to it. Let everyone watch them and decide for themselves.

wait make believe story?

This is what he says at the end of the vid

"Making a response that has nothing to do with my points, or by inventing a narrative, or inventing characterization and not even bothering to refute my points is... a little disappointing. I was hoping to have something to work with here. Instead it just your opinion. So aside from you pointing out your misinterpretation of what I said, of events of scenes and characterization; not even bothering to challenge any of my points with any evidence..."

Does anyone else feel this to be the case?

No, not at all. That's just a classic smudboy counterargument, dismissing everything what you said by saying they're opinions, as what he says are objective and factual in a highly subjective, theoretical subject as FICTION.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 24 mars 2011 - 03:48 .

[Almostfaceman]

squee913 wrote...

Just watched Smud's Video and approved it as a response to my video. I am curious.... Does anyone who has seen my videos, whether you agreed or not, think that I completely ignored all of SmudBoy's arguments? According to him, I just ignored all his points and told some make believe story... After watching it, I don't even need to respond to it. Let everyone watch them and decide for themselves.

Quite the opposite you addressed his comments, which is the opposite of ignoring them.

[Almostfaceman]

squee913 wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

squee913 wrote...

Just watched Smud's Video and approved it as a response to my video. I am curious.... Does anyone who has seen my videos, whether you agreed or not, think that I completely ignored all of SmudBoy's arguments? According to him, I just ignored all his points and told some make believe story... After watching it, I don't even need to respond to it. Let everyone watch them and decide for themselves.

wait make believe story?

This is what he says at the end of the vid

"Making a response that has nothing to do with my points, or by inventing a narrative, or inventing characterization and not even bothering to refute my points is... a little disappointing. I was hoping to have something to work with here. Instead it just your opinion. So aside from you pointing out your misinterpretation of what I said, of events of scenes and characterization; not even bothering to challenge any of my points with any evidence..."

Does anyone else feel this to be the case?

This is not the case in my opinion.  You clearly play what he says, in his own words, then you rebut them with your argument.  His disagreement with your rebuttal seems to drive him to mischaracterize your rebuttal.  Typical political move - to demonize the person you disagree with.

[Whatever42]

Do not get into a back-and-forth argument with Smudboy. He will never give up. He will never acknowledge any validity to your arguments. If you beat him on a point, he will ignore it and shift the debate to a different angle. He is not interested in discussion; he is obsessive about winning the debate.

[Whatever42]

Almostfaceman wrote...

squee913 wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

squee913 wrote...

Just watched Smud's Video and approved it as a response to my video. I am curious.... Does anyone who has seen my videos, whether you agreed or not, think that I completely ignored all of SmudBoy's arguments? According to him, I just ignored all his points and told some make believe story... After watching it, I don't even need to respond to it. Let everyone watch them and decide for themselves.

wait make believe story?

This is what he says at the end of the vid

"Making a response that has nothing to do with my points, or by inventing a narrative, or inventing characterization and not even bothering to refute my points is... a little disappointing. I was hoping to have something to work with here. Instead it just your opinion. So aside from you pointing out your misinterpretation of what I said, of events of scenes and characterization; not even bothering to challenge any of my points with any evidence..."

Does anyone else feel this to be the case?

This is not the case in my opinion.  You clearly play what he says, in his own words, then you rebut them with your argument.  His disagreement with your rebuttal seems to drive him to mischaracterize your rebuttal.  Typical political move - to demonize the person you disagree with.

Remember, to Smudboy, if something is not explicitly explained then it is a plothole and bad writing. For example, Smudboy thinks that not mining the relay is a plothole because he believes it is a superiour tactical move. If you respond that drift would make it impossible to mine the relay then Smud would still think it was a plot hole because it was not explicitly discussed. This is the kind of debate he wants because you can never win that debate. No matter what you say, he will come up with an alternative - well, lets make smart drones.

[Vyse_Fina]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Do not get into a back-and-forth argument with Smudboy. He will never give up. He will never acknowledge any validity to your arguments. If you beat him on a point, he will ignore it and shift the debate to a different angle. He is not interested in discussion; he is obsessive about winning the debate.

Is that the point here? Winning the argument? Get him to aknowledge what most people think?
Are we all 10-year-olds or what?

The way I see it, the people who argue with him love Mass Effect and try to defend it ad he also loves Mass Effect and therefor tries to improve it. He puts in a lot of effort and thought so he is pretty adamant about what he claims. In the end both sides love the game though, they just express it in different ways and have different opinions on where to go from here. My suggestion for both sides would be to stop arguing with each other over the matter. (or maybe een work together instead of arguing)

Modifié par Vyse_Fina, 24 mars 2011 - 05:56 .

[grifter024]

Some of the points were annoying not to mention kind of moot points to actually attack...although the new link has the guy counteracting smuds points kind of rambled on alot which was annoying.

I actually have a problem ala loophole that I can understand.

ME2
Suicide Mission
Shep running to ship
joker pops out and begins shooting a gun

So he has brittle bones yet the kickback didnt break/dislocate anything in his arm?

Sheppard jumps to the normandy
joker grabs his hand and holds him with one arm

Joker didnt dislocate his arm?

Very strange joker...very strange.

[squee913]

Actually, he is being rather civil. He even says that I made some good points in video 2,
I quote, "You made a few in your second vid (and some not so good ones), but I do admit to them."
He has even agreed to be a guest on my Mass Effect 2 With Friends LP. There are a few veiled insults here and there, but I have seen far far worse on the forums here. I know a lot of you hate him, and I can't say anything about what has happened in the past, but he seems like an ok guy to me

[Fiery Phoenix]

I certainly don't hate him.

[Whatever42]

grifter024 wrote...

Some of the points were annoying not to mention kind of moot points to actually attack...although the new link has the guy counteracting smuds points kind of rambled on alot which was annoying.

I actually have a problem ala loophole that I can understand.

ME2
Suicide Mission
Shep running to ship
joker pops out and begins shooting a gun

So he has brittle bones yet the kickback didnt break/dislocate anything in his arm?

Sheppard jumps to the normandy
joker grabs his hand and holds him with one arm

Joker didnt dislocate his arm?

Very strange joker...very strange.

Joker was also running around earlier in the game. That's because medical advancement improved his condition.

[DRSH]

Smudboy's & Squee's arguments are both cool... no need to take sides.

[squee913]

DRSH wrote...

Smudboy's & Squee's arguments are both cool... no need to take sides.

Well.... I kind of have to pick a side or be a hypocrite

[CroGamer002]

squee913 wrote...

Actually, he is being rather civil. He even says that I made some good points in video 2,
I quote, "You made a few in your second vid (and some not so good ones), but I do admit to them."
He has even agreed to be a guest on my Mass Effect 2 With Friends LP. There are a few veiled insults here and there, but I have seen far far worse on the forums here. I know a lot of you hate him, and I can't say anything about what has happened in the past, but he seems like an ok guy to me

I have to see that!

[Almostfaceman]

squee913 wrote...

Actually, he is being rather civil. He even says that I made some good points in video 2,
I quote, "You made a few in your second vid (and some not so good ones), but I do admit to them."
He has even agreed to be a guest on my Mass Effect 2 With Friends LP. There are a few veiled insults here and there, but I have seen far far worse on the forums here. I know a lot of you hate him, and I can't say anything about what has happened in the past, but he seems like an ok guy to me

I don't hate him, I just happen to agree with most of your counter-points.  That's about as far as it goes, lol.

Edit: your counter-points so far, I haven't seen video 3 yet 

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 24 mars 2011 - 08:31 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Yeah, we're still waiting for Part #3, Stephen! =D

[squee913]

Yeesh, you guys are almost as bad as my Baldur's Gate 2 veiwers, "When's the next episode coming out? Are you ever going to get Celestial Furry? Stop telling Arie to take her shirt off and flap her nubs!"

It will come as soon as I can my friends. I could pump it out today, but it would lack all the funny pictures I make for it.

The Mass Effect with Friends are usually recorded on Friday. I stream them if anyone is interested in watching. But I do a lot of LPs besides that so sometimes I stream other games. Don't go thinking that it would turn into a great debate with smudboy. I'm am going to make sure he knows that a lot of the LPs viewers would not enjoy us debating things the whole time and so that stuff would be kept to a minimum during the session.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

I certainly don't hate him.

I used to hate him when we had an argument about Shepard in ME2 back in the day when he was among us, he really got on my nerves back there but I don't have hard feelings and I highly respect his inteligence and argumentation overall. You CAN'T deny his knowledge on the subject and his valid critiscism. I very well liked his reimagination of ME2. He's the kind of guy that can be a pain but HAS to exist to things keep on improving.

I usually say that most of his points are silly nitpicking and I do think they are, but is he wrong to ask for exposition? No.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 25 mars 2011 - 03:54 .

[Il Divo]

[quote]Fiery Phoenix wrote...

(...)[/quote]
No, not at all, JK. I'm merely sharing the video since it is relevant here. I just finished listening to Smud's response and I think it's quite interesting. Smud still holds true to his original points, while providing more in-depth explanation for some of them. [/quote]

I know this wasn't the point of his videos, but I just got to the part where he mentioned Legacy of Kain: Defiance and pissed myself. Good call on his part referencing the LoK series.

Overall, I have to agree with Squee on some points. Aside from his intro which is slow to start, I'd say he does an effective job of countering a good number of Smud's criticisms.

[Almostfaceman]

squee913 wrote...

Yeesh, you guys are almost as bad as my Baldur's Gate 2 veiwers, "When's the next episode coming out? Are you ever going to get Celestial Furry? Stop telling Arie to take her shirt off and flap her nubs!"

It will come as soon as I can my friends. I could pump it out today, but it would lack all the funny pictures I make for it.

The Mass Effect with Friends are usually recorded on Friday. I stream them if anyone is interested in watching. But I do a lot of LPs besides that so sometimes I stream other games. Don't go thinking that it would turn into a great debate with smudboy. I'm am going to make sure he knows that a lot of the LPs viewers would not enjoy us debating things the whole time and so that stuff would be kept to a minimum during the session.

[Ben Kenobi] Arie... Arie? Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time... a long time. [/Ben Kenobi]

Yes, yes keep us supplied with the funny pictures.  Must have the funny pictures. 

[Secret Question Mark]

Pretty sure somebody did the same kind of thing for the Star wars PT movies.

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Modifié par Secret Question Mark, 25 mars 2011 - 04:17 .

[JKoopman]

squee913 wrote...

Actually, he is being rather civil. He even says that I made some good points in video 2,
I quote, "You made a few in your second vid (and some not so good ones), but I do admit to them."
He has even agreed to be a guest on my Mass Effect 2 With Friends LP. There are a few veiled insults here and there, but I have seen far far worse on the forums here. I know a lot of you hate him, and I can't say anything about what has happened in the past, but he seems like an ok guy to me

I'm fairly certain that most of the people who profess to hate Smudboy themselves got into arguments with him and came out the loser. Rather than aknowledging that his position was superior or that his points were valid they--to quote Almostfaceman--choose to demonize the person they disagree with by labeling and subsequently dismissing him as simply being an obnoxious a-hole or a troll or an [insert slander here] with whom debate is clearly impossible.

The same has been said of me where I've been accused of being a troll simply for being tenacious and thorough in my arguments. It's like people perceive you as some sort of anal-retentive snob if you actually defend your position by responding to counter-arguments and/or type more than one paragraph by way of reply.