1198 réponses à ce sujet

[Whatever42]

iakus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Whenever you debate plot holes, the "haters" always come back to the death and ressurection of Shepard. Its the one point they can defend well. I just usually concede it to them as long as they don't go all Smudboy and start trying to argue that not showing Shepard taking a dump is a plot hole.

As one of the "haters" I can concur that while it is far from the only problem with the story, it does indeed stand head and shoulders over just about all of them.  At least from a purely storytelling perspective. 

Silent squadmates is a somewhat different problem, though no less a major one.

Oh, I think there are several legitimate storytelling critiques people can make about ME2, which you do quite well and fairly. Some of it obviously affects your enjoyment of the game more than it does mine but I think everyone agrees that the story in ME2 is not strong compared to ME1.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

I think shepard's reactions make sense if you assume that in the mass effect universe there is no such thing as an afterlife and that when you die you are a dead athiest.

Think about his perspective, he passes out in space, and then wakes up on a table. I mean it's a miraculous thing to die and come back but from the character's own perspective there wasn't really that much to it. Honestly what could he SAY? He didn't act like he'd been to heaven and come back, as far as he knows it was just a coma.

The thing with comas is that they matter ALOT more to the people that have to live without you than it does to the comatose patient on the table. to them it's nothing. that's what the death and resurrection of Shepard WAS. HE didn't experience what his death MEANT, everyone else had to.  It was a world without him, death was a non-experience to him because in the mass effect world there is no heaven or hell. Everyone else had to deal with his passing, the universe moved on in a world without the "hero of the citadel".

Mass Effect as a franchise went away, just as Shepard did. When he came back he felt as if he'd never left, but the world moved on without him. In a more literal sense, he came back because his brain cells were alive again, not because of stuff involving having a soul or whatnot. Scifi shows that involve afterlife stuff usually do that because the writer wants to put religion into the story. Mass Effect on the other hand does not do this thing.


Here's a question: Why would death matter to the person that died and was brought back? How different is it from being in a coma or just knocked out?



In order for the second act of the story to WORK and NOT be just a rehash of Mass Effect 1 with different actors (Let's be honest how many times did you black out during smudboy's remake and just start hearing Mass Effect 1's story remixed with nameswaps?)  The problem with Mass Effect 2 is that Mass Effect 1 set up the ENDING of the franchise.  Without taking Shepard out of the galaxy you'd end up with a story that is really just the resolution of the story from the first part, broken up into 2 because of an arbitrary trilogy.  That is not a real trilogy.  Pirates of the Carribean and Halo are not true Trilogies.  They are one game and then a two part game.  Mass Effect will succeed as a Trilogy because they were able to make the second game ABOUT something, and because of that Mass Effect 3 will MATTER more because there are TWICE as many stories' worth of questions to answer rather than just stretching one series of answers across two movies by making it longer.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 26 mars 2011 - 04:44 .

[Praetor Knight]

Almostfaceman wrote...

This is the same principle used in the Mass Relay almost instantaneous faster-than-light miracle.  The Mass Relay turns the mass of the ship into that approximately of a tasty juicy Skittle (cherry flavored).  Then this mass is Wave Alternated back and forth through our dimension and the Prima 2 Alpha dimension - but using the Forcegap TimeRUSH method, thus facilitating the literal blindfolding of Time Itself and doing a supercheat on the Physics God.

Well, Mass Relays might be doing this:




Folding space-time for near instant travel by creating a "corridor" through space that links the Mass Relays (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge).

Interestingly enough, such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; and M-Theory seems to provide a way to change the topology of space-time dynamically.


But Skittles are tasty.

[Whatever42]

Oh, agreed. I think Shepard having a religious experience would be out-of-place.

I think its more than Shepard lost everything - spectre status, his friends, his ship, his whole life - but other than a couple head shakes, he just moves on. Now personally, I think that's not unbelievable. Shepard is just too awesome to let something like that shake him up too bad. Although, some people would have liked to see paragon Shepard struggle against his situation a little harder.

Another point is that no one seems to go "OMG, Shepard you're alive! WTF happened??" Instead, its "Oh, hey, Shepard, you're back." The VS and Liara even get annoyed with him for coming back after two years. This is the strongest argument in all that, I think. You would expect more emotion here. Now, that's tricky because the natural reaction we would have is to ask what happened. But you can't have everyone asking that - the player already knows and having Shepard explain it would not advance the story or the plot. Still, a little more amazement would probably be called for.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Here's something. In Mass Effect Evolution it's established that TIM has a "link" with the reapers.

What if they recovered Shepard because TIM "saw a vision" of harbinger's collectors destroying the normandy?

Is it possible that Shepard had gone into orbit around the planet rather than falling?

When the collectors attacked the Normandy, had TIM already sent cerberus to assist and recover any survivors due to some sort of vision his "evolution" had given him?

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

consider this:
Soldiers are used to dealing with people dieing. When Jenkins dies at the start of ME1 you are forced to deal with it and move on. Kaiden doesn't spend the entire mission moping about it. They deal with it, like adults and professional soldiers. That is a military mindset. A normal person would cry forever and be a **** about it because we are ordinary emotional salt-sloths.

Liara cried for a while and then broke down on every level and became a sociopath.
Wrex probably got drunk and beat up some Vorcha.
Garrus formed an entire Merc band and a hero complex (idolizing shepard, wanting to do what he did and be like him as a form of compensating for his loss).
Tali probably morned him but moved on with her life because she had a duty to her people.


holy crap is that the whole squad? They totally explained all of that didn't they?

Here's something to remember: Cerberus is way bigger than ANY organization in the galaxy, and TIM is a UNIQUE person because of his "evolution".

[Whatever42]

If you look at the opening animations, Shepard's body was pretty much shattered. Shepard hit something really hard for that to happen. And in the audio recordings, they said that Shepard was exposed and lack of oxygen to the brain would have killed all those cells, so even if Shepard only hit a piece of wreckage or bounced of the atmosphere because of entry angle (unlikely because I don't think he was going that fast), we still have the same fantastical ressurection.

Now, personally, I think TIM used Reaper tech. In the recordings, Miranda said that they used bio-synthetic fusion to start up the neural functions again. Who has that kind of technology? Gosh, the Reapers! How did they reconstruct Shepard's memories, though?

Well, let's assume Shepard got a full physical after the Battle of the Citadel - quite likely because he/she was beat up pretty bad. Today we have MRI's which will provide incredibly detailed images of the brain. In 150 years, its probably far more advanced. Every little nook and cranny is probably recorded. So TIM gets that and uses that to reconstruct Shepard's neural pathways. But what about the last month? He made it up. He has the logs from the Normandy. He fictionalized the whole thing.

[Almostfaceman]

Someone may have brought this up already, but did anyone consider that the suit Shep wore had a built-in emergency parachute? The suits are very sophisticated, serving as spacewalk suits, armor, computers, communication, etc.

[Whatever42]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Someone may have brought this up already, but did anyone consider that the suit Shep wore had a built-in emergency parachute? The suits are very sophisticated, serving as spacewalk suits, armor, computers, communication, etc.

Its possible. But I don't think that being reasonably intact from the fall is a huge deal. I think its the ressurection. Shepard was dead. The tissue in the opening scene looks like it had freezer burn. The recordings said Shepard was exposed to vaccuum.  There was no neural activity.

And Shepard is definately a cyborg now. David from Overlord hacked him.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Someone may have brought this up already, but did anyone consider that the suit Shep wore had a built-in emergency parachute? The suits are very sophisticated, serving as spacewalk suits, armor, computers, communication, etc.

And if the game told us that was what saved Shepard that would have been something, Not something great but something, But instead we get nothing.

[JKoopman]

iakus wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Kinetic barriers that alter mass is a fine explanation for how shepard was able to not break apart.

Kinetic barriers that somehow failed to keep his suit from being ruptured?

I would like to check the ingame data on the planet but if it is radically smaller than earth (it looked smaller than earth in the opening) the idea of surviving that fall with a magical science forcefield up that blocks bullets seems like a plausible explanation.

According to the wiki, Alchera's mass was 1.767 Earth masses, had a surface gravity of .85g, and an atmospheric pressure of .83 atmospheres.  I think getting smacked with a planet like that would overload whatever batteries were running Shep's barriers, assuming they were even functioning.

Whether or not Shepard's inexplicably amazing kinetic barriers were able to withstand impact with a planet at ~195kph (which stretches credulity to the breaking point) while apparently being unable to protect against bulkhead collisions aboard the Normandy is, in fact, a moot point.

1) Kinetic barriers or no kinetic barriers, Shepard would've vaporized in the atmosphere long before he ever reached the planet's surface, as barriers aren't able to protect against either temperature extremes or atmospheric hazards.

2) Ever heard the phrase "It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end"? Even if Sheprard somehow managed to avoid burning up on re-renty, and even if Shepard's barriers somehow managed to withstand impact with the planet's surface, his entire body would be reduced to a neatly-contained pulpy mass from the force of the impact on his internal organs.

There is literally no scenario where it's physically possible--or even plausible--for Shepard's body to survive it's fall from orbit even relatively intact. It's a massive physics f**kup right up there with squadmates running around half-naked in vaccuum with nothing but a breathing mask. I'd say that I'm amazed that BioWare overlooked such basic principles, but then I notice the EA logo on the game box and everything becomes clear...

Almostfaceman wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Shepard didn't realise he died until Jacob told him, shepard reacts to that, but is also in the thick of battle and a Soldier is trained to keep sharp in combat.

Kinetic barriers that alter mass is a fine explanation for how shepard was able to not break apart.

I would like to check the ingame data on the planet but if it is radically smaller than earth (it looked smaller than earth in the opening) the idea of surviving that fall with a magical science forcefield up that blocks bullets seems like a plausible explanation.

also lets argue how Shepard didn't break his spine when the explosion knocked him into a wall or how he was able to operate an eject pod interface.

The comic kind of adds alot of information on possibly why saren looked weird, why saren looks weird, and why shepard gets terminator eyes in me2. "Evolution" is a theme there, and it seems that they've done "something" to it.

god smudboy don't talk about Joan of Arc unless you know something about history god you idiot.

god Doctor_Jackstraw don't talk about the survivability of planetary re-entry unless you know something about physics god you idiot

I take it the "god you idiot" stuff is smudboy phraseology - I haven't watched any of his videos.

Nope. That's all Doctor_Jackstraw. Hence my jab about ridiculing Smudboy for not knowing enough about history while he himself demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of basic physics.

I don't think I've ever heard Smudboy be personally insulting in any of his videos. If you can get passed his droning monotone voice, he's actually rather polite.

Modifié par JKoopman, 26 mars 2011 - 05:46 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

squee913 wrote...

Just watched Smud's Video and approved it as a response to my video. I am curious.... Does anyone who has seen my videos, whether you agreed or not, think that I completely ignored all of SmudBoy's arguments? According to him, I just ignored all his points and told some make believe story... After watching it, I don't even need to respond to it. Let everyone watch them and decide for themselves.

Yup you pretty much ignored everything he said or took it out of context, Smud is arguing that ME 2's narrative is bad from a basic storytelling perspective(what are we doing, how are we doing it, where do we do it and have we explored alternative routes to do it) - These are the fundamental blocks in storytelling and smud does raise some pretty accurate questions about ME 2 story, This is why he constantly brings up the question "How does this fit into the narrative, Plot or story).

You on the other hand invent explanations or worse hand wave it away with "It's science fiction" like sci-fi doesn't conform to basic storytelling premises or when you have nothing at all you simply ignore everything smud said and come up with completely misinterpretation of his argument like "So you want the resurrection to be done like Babylon 5 did it"...

All in all you answered noting and replied to very little. 

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

1) They seem to block fire bullets pretty well. I bet they also protect against extreme heat.

2) So shepard's body explodes and scatters everywhere? Stitch it back together with cybernetics.

They aren't naked in the vaccuum of space, it's mentioned that the ships (derilect reaper, collector ship, collector base) have Mass Effect Kinetic Fields protecting them from the vaccume of space. the normandy also had one to keep joker from being sucked out into empty blackness.

god.


Edit: Whether the game told us or not, that was a time thing.  He fell from space, he somehow was recoverable.  It takes 9 months for a baby's body to form, whatever parts of his body they recovered they were able to fix and repair.

Look at this: Legion recovered fragments of Shepard's armor, and in the Normandy Crash Site you recover your helmet, a series of dog tags, you find the mako, parts of the ship, and data logs.  Those things survived the fall, so shepard's head and most of his torso probably survived too, even if they scattered everywhere.

"Hey I found his head"  "Here's his arm"  "Hey here's his....I'll just put it in the truck":

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 26 mars 2011 - 05:44 .

[Whatever42]

JKoopman wrote...

There is literally no scenario where it's physically possible--or even plausible--for Shepard's body to survive it's fall from orbit even relatively intact. It's a massive physics f**kup right up there with squadmates running around half-naked in vaccuum with nothing but a breathing mask. I'd say that I'm amazed that BioWare overlooked such basic principles, but then I notice the EA logo on the game box and everything becomes clear...

First:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Alan_Magee
http://en.wikipedia....cholas_Alkemade
http://en.wikipedia....i/Vesna_Vulović
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Ivan_Chisov

People have surived free falls from high flying aircraft, much less had their bodies intact. And that's on a higher gravity world than the one in question here. So yes, its physically possible.

Second:

Squadmates never run around in vaccuums with only a breather mask.

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

If you look at the opening animations, Shepard's body was pretty much shattered. Shepard hit something really hard for that to happen. And in the audio recordings, they said that Shepard was exposed and lack of oxygen to the brain would have killed all those cells, so even if Shepard only hit a piece of wreckage or bounced of the atmosphere because of entry angle (unlikely because I don't think he was going that fast), we still have the same fantastical ressurection.

Now, personally, I think TIM used Reaper tech. In the recordings, Miranda said that they used bio-synthetic fusion to start up the neural functions again. Who has that kind of technology? Gosh, the Reapers! How did they reconstruct Shepard's memories, though?

Well, let's assume Shepard got a full physical after the Battle of the Citadel - quite likely because he/she was beat up pretty bad. Today we have MRI's which will provide incredibly detailed images of the brain. In 150 years, its probably far more advanced. Every little nook and cranny is probably recorded. So TIM gets that and uses that to reconstruct Shepard's neural pathways. But what about the last month? He made it up. He has the logs from the Normandy. He fictionalized the whole thing.

While I agree that Reaper tech is the most likely scenerio (and how messed up must a situation be for that to be the case?)  It still brings up another missed opportunity for ressurection:  

How "human" is Shepard now?  Given the amount of cybernetic augmentation and neural reconstruction, how much of Shepard is original and how much is some kind of VI or AI that thinks he's Shepard?  Sure he may be "exactly" as before.  But there's no doubt at all?  None?  From anyone?  I find it hard to believe the VS is the only one who even suspects Shep's mind may have been tinkered with.

And one other tidbit about the planet:  It's atmosphere is ammonia and methane.  I'm no chemist, but something tells me that human tissue exposed to that for any length of time would be...bad.

[Whatever42]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

1) They seem to block fire bullets pretty well. I bet they also protect against extreme heat.

2) So shepard's body explodes and scatters everywhere? Stitch it back together with cybernetics.

They aren't naked in the vaccuum of space, it's mentioned that the ships (derilect reaper, collector ship, collector base) have Mass Effect Kinetic Fields protecting them from the vaccume of space. the normandy also had one to keep joker from being sucked out into empty blackness.

god.

Explaining re-entry is easy. Things only burn up in the atmosphere because of their very high velocity. Shepard had wreckage whizzing past him, he wasn't going that fast. Certainly not the 10-70km per SECOND that meteors hit our atmosphere.

Also, we know Shepards armor and shields protect for short periods of time against flame-throwers, which are much hotter than shuttle re-entry tempertures, which are going 28000km per hour.

So surviving a entry burn for Shepard is very probable. He wasn't going that fast and we know his armor protects him to a certain point.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 26 mars 2011 - 07:06 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

There is literally no scenario where it's physically possible--or even plausible--for Shepard's body to survive it's fall from orbit even relatively intact. It's a massive physics f**kup right up there with squadmates running around half-naked in vaccuum with nothing but a breathing mask. I'd say that I'm amazed that BioWare overlooked such basic principles, but then I notice the EA logo on the game box and everything becomes clear...

First:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Alan_Magee
http://en.wikipedia....cholas_Alkemade
http://en.wikipedia....i/Vesna_Vulović
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Ivan_Chisov

People have surived free falls from high flying aircraft, much less had their bodies intact. And that's on a higher gravity world than the one in question here. So yes, its physically possible.

Second:

Squadmates never run around in vaccuums with only a breather mask.

Man it is CRAZY the kinds of THINGS you can LEARN if you just RESEARCH instead of ASSUME things.

"but he fell from space the atmosphere bleh"  Did you know that most of the reason why our atmosphere is the way it is is because of the heat trapped within our atmosphere?  If you fell onto mars or the moon you wouldn't burn up like with Earth.  (woah woah woah what?!!!)  because you aren't suddenly being exposed to massive ammounts of stored heat in our upper atmosphere.  (greenhouse gasses, al gore, al gore!!)

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 26 mars 2011 - 05:47 .

[Whatever42]

iakus wrote...

While I agree that Reaper tech is the most likely scenerio (and how messed up must a situation be for that to be the case?)  It still brings up another missed opportunity for ressurection:  

How "human" is Shepard now?  Given the amount of cybernetic augmentation and neural reconstruction, how much of Shepard is original and how much is some kind of VI or AI that thinks he's Shepard?  Sure he may be "exactly" as before.  But there's no doubt at all?  None?  From anyone?  I find it hard to believe the VS is the only one who even suspects Shep's mind may have been tinkered with.

And one other tidbit about the planet:  It's atmosphere is ammonia and methane.  I'm no chemist, but something tells me that human tissue exposed to that for any length of time would be...bad.

I hope those questions will be raised in ME3. It is somewhat surprising that Shepard didn't ask about the bio-synthetic fusion. I would be rather curious about it, absolutely.

Personally, I don't think Shepard was messed with. I think TIM wanted him perfectly intact. He wanted Shepard acting exactly like Shepard and wanted no cloned DNA.

Why? Because Shepard was a lure. He knew that the Reapers and Collectors would be drawn to him. But if Shepard were acting unShepardlike or if the Collectors realized he was a clone then they would stop pursuing him.  And, of course, there is the stated reason that Shepard has that certain something that TIM didn't want to lose.

As far as the atmosphere - Shepard probably froze stiff pretty fast. His tissue looked pretty damn awful in the opening sequence.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 26 mars 2011 - 05:52 .

[Iakus]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

1) They seem to block fire bullets pretty well. I bet they also protect against extreme heat.

kinetic barriers are exactly that:  kinetic barriers.  They are designed to protect people from small, fast moving objects like bullets.  It's stated explicitly that they do not protect at all against  fire, radiation, or toxins

2) So shepard's body explodes and scatters everywhere? Stitch it back together with cybernetics.

The question then becomes just how much of Shep's body is salvagable.  And what happened to his brain?

They aren't naked in the vaccuum of space, it's mentioned that the ships (derilect reaper, collector ship, collector base) have Mass Effect Kinetic Fields protecting them from the vaccume of space. the normandy also had one to keep joker from being sucked out into empty blackness.

Even assuming that a barrier could hold in an atmosphere (something I'm not at all sure should have been possible, given the lore)  Keep in mind that there was a point on the Derelict Reaper where there was no barrier up.

As for Joker:  Okay he either bakes, freezes or gets bombarded with cosmic rays with zero protection.

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
I hope those questions will be raised in ME3. It is somewhat surprising that Shepard didn't ask about the bio-synthetic fusion. I would be rather curious about it, absolutely.

Personally, I don't think Shepard was messed with. I think TIM wanted him perfectly intact. He wanted Shepard acting exactly like Shepard and wanted no cloned DNA.

Why? Because Shepard was a lure. He knew that the Reapers and Collectors would be drawn to him. But if Shepard were acting unShepardlike or if the Collectors realized he was a clone then they would stop pursuing him.  And, of course, there is the stated reason that Shepard has that certain something that TIM didn't want to lose.

As far as the atmosphere - Shepard probably froze stiff pretty fast. His tissue looked pretty damn awful in the opening sequence.

I don't think Shep would have been deliberately messed with.  Well, except for the Horizon scene.  No one's IQ drops that much that fast normally.  But the question should have been raised that if She was rebuilt as extensively as even the most optimistic assumptions of the state of his body, are they sure no  mistakes were made?  Is everything interacting right?  Is his personality exactly right? Are all his memories accurate?

Essentially, They baked a Shepard's Pie for the first time.  Did it turn out okay?  A few minutes of Q&A on a shuttle shouldn't be enough. Even for Shepard

[Whatever42]

iakus wrote...

I don't think Shep would have been deliberately messed with.  Well, except for the Horizon scene.  No one's IQ drops that much that fast normally.  But the question should have been raised that if She was rebuilt as extensively as even the most optimistic assumptions of the state of his body, are they sure no  mistakes were made?  Is everything interacting right?  Is his personality exactly right? Are all his memories accurate?

Essentially, They baked a Shepard's Pie for the first time.  Did it turn out okay?  A few minutes of Q&A on a shuttle shouldn't be enough. Even for Shepard

Yup. I think that was a question on Cerberus's mind too. There was a reason for the quiz in the shuttle besides us picking the councilor because the flags didn't carry across.

If they could simply biologically reconstruct the brain then they could do before-and-after brain scans and go yup, that Shepard. But they resorted to bio-synethic fusion. Who the heck knows how that works. I doubt even Wilson really knew, if it was Reaper Tech.

I agree that it would have been cool to explore that. They opened it up a bit with Shepard being hacked in Overlord. Maybe they'll still do something with it. That is, if we're remotely right.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 26 mars 2011 - 06:12 .

[JKoopman]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

There is literally no scenario where it's physically possible--or even plausible--for Shepard's body to survive it's fall from orbit even relatively intact. It's a massive physics f**kup right up there with squadmates running around half-naked in vaccuum with nothing but a breathing mask. I'd say that I'm amazed that BioWare overlooked such basic principles, but then I notice the EA logo on the game box and everything becomes clear...

First:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Alan_Magee
http://en.wikipedia....cholas_Alkemade
http://en.wikipedia....i/Vesna_Vulović
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Ivan_Chisov

People have surived free falls from high flying aircraft, much less had their bodies intact. And that's on a higher gravity world than the one in question here. So yes, its physically possible.

In the first case, the fall was mitigated by a glass structure. In the second, the decent was slowed by a heavy tree canopy and a thick layer of soft snow. In the third, the survivor stayed with and never exited the stricken aircraft, effectively meaning she surivived a plane crash and not a true freefall. In the last, he hit the slope of a snowy ravine and slid down. They were all extremely lucky.

Shepard--judging by where his helmet is found at the Normandy crash site--hit the plateau of a frozen glacier and had nothing to break his fall.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Second:

Squadmates never run around in vaccuums with only a breather mask.

The Derelict Reaper, where whole gaping sections are exposed to space. And before anyone says it, the Reaper had a mass effect field active to reduce it's mass and keep it from falling into the brown dwarf it was orbiting. It did not have a kinetic barrier active, and a kinetic barrier would do nothing to prevent it's decent (and, if you want to get technical, kinetic barriers shouldn't be able to contain an atmosphere anyway, as the codex entry clearly states that they don't protect against atmospheric hazards and, if they did, you wouldn't be able to breath while wearing one).

Also the Collector Base, where the Normandy crash lands on the exterior of the station where there shouldn't be any atmosphere and the crew disembarks without even bothering to put on their breathing masks. That's always bugged the crap out of me.

Even if it's handwaved away as there somehow being sufficient pressure in these areas, anyone with exposed skin would be getting massive fatal doses of solar radiation and likely burned to a crisp or alternately frozen solid in the -270°C of space, unless the Collectors for some reason decided to keep the exterior of their station warm and toasty.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Explaining re-entry is easy. Things only burn up in the atmosphere because of their very high velocity. Shepard had wreckage whizzing past him, he wasn't going that fast. Certainly not the 10-70km per SECOND that meteors hit our atmosphere.

Shepard is also traveling aboard a starship moving at maximum sublight speeds at the time of his ejection. I'd say that would add a fair bit to his velocity.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Also, we know Shepards armor and shields protect for short periods of time against flame-throwers, which are much hotter than shuttle re-entry tempertures, which are going 17km per hour.

So surviving a entry burn for Shepard is very probable. He wasn't going that fast and we know his armor protects him to a certain point.

You know what else withstands flamethrowers quite well? Solid rock. Yet meteorites burn up easily.

And reentry temperatures are around 3,000 F. I don't know of any flamethrowers that reach or exceed that, so I question your research. Only welding torches reach temperatures in excess of 3,000+, and ME2's Firestorm is clearly not a welding torch.

Modifié par JKoopman, 26 mars 2011 - 06:36 .

[Whatever42]

Who says Shepard didn't hit a snowy slope? And the gravity is only .85g on this planet. And I'm not arguing Shepard lived, mind you. Only that he didn't completely go splat. He broke practically every bone in his body. You were saying that it was physically impossible, I'm saying that it is even possible to live.

As far as the Collector station. it clearly had atmosphere. There was dust hanging in the air. There were tunnels open to the surface. This station had a mass effect field that kept it safe from intense gravity and raditation. Having it sustain an atmo and pressure is simple by comparison.

As for the reapers ship, that's a decent point. Although, in the video for that, I can argue that there was outrushing atmosphere. Things were blowing past them and there was sound. Of course, you could always point to the planets with the poisonous atmosopheres where they wore no protection so I'll just concede that the costumes weren't very practical. Again, it doesn't bug me, like Han and Leia only wearing masks on the asteroid didn't bug me but certainly not realistic.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

JKoopman wrote...

In the last, he hit the slope of a snowy ravine and slid down. They were all extremely lucky.

that is probably what happened to shepard

JKoopman wrote...

Shepard--judging by where his helmet is found at the Normandy crash site--hit the plateu of a frozen glacier and had nothing to break his fall.

or maybe the cerberus operatives removed his helmet and armor and just left it somewhere.  (Why would they care its just armor)  If that's where his HEAD landed there'd probably be alot of blood.....

JKoopman wrote...
The Derelict Reaper, where whole gaping sections are exposed to space. And before anyone says it, the Reaper had a mass effect field active to reduce it's mass and keep it from falling into the brown dwarf it was orbiting. It did not have a kinetic barrier active, and a kinetic barrier would do nothing to prevent it's decent (and, if you want to get technical, kinetic barriers shouldn't be able to contain an atmosphere anyway, as the codex entry clearly states that they don't protect against atmospheric hazards and, if they did, you wouldn't be able to breath while wearing one).

Also the Collector Base, where the Normandy crash lands on the exterior of the station where there shouldn't be any atmosphere and the crew disembarks without even bothering to put on their breathing masks. That's always bugged the crap out of me.

Even if it's handwaved away as there somehow being sufficient pressure in these areas, anyone with exposed skin would be getting massive fatal doses of solar radiation and likely burned to a crisp or alternately frozen solid in the -270°C of space, unless the Collectors for some reason decided to keep the exterior of their station warm and toasty.

I'm pretty sure there is codex on the derilect reaper's ability to sustain an atmosphere.  either in the initial scan, in a codex you find, or an investigation option.  I am pretty sure they mention the mass effect field that keeps it from falling into the dwarf also maintains an atmosphere either directly or indirectly.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 26 mars 2011 - 06:32 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Even if he went splat, it's not like a cartoon, it'd be more like when you run over a squirrel. He still has his skin and all of his blood but all his bones are broken and he's sort of ripped up in alot of parts on his body. Shepard probably split in half and lost some limbs and his spine probably broke in several places and his body was in several pieces but they used thier big cerberus machines to grow new skin and muscle and bone tissue and blood to replace the old.


also without an atmosphere like we got due to all that water and oxygen and stuff and the smog we pump up into it entry onto our planet would be less burney.  As I said, entry onto mars or the moon doesn't burn you up.  an uninhabited, uninhabitable world of a smaller size than earth would not have such a thick layer of melt me to death arround the planet that we earthians happily enjoy.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 26 mars 2011 - 06:38 .