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[Whatever42]

A burned out Shepard, who's friends and allies have all abandoned him would be a pretty different game. Shepard would no longer be the hero of the citadel but nutcase Shepard who howls at the moon.

You know, that might be a more logical progression, less fantastic if you will, but I think players would hate that a lot more.

Switching Shepard to experience the joys and tribulations of the Renegade faction is much better done the way they did it. I think its simply an example of how video game writing is different than other media. So many people are expecting writig to all play out as a novel but it doesn't work that way. That's why there are movie adaptations of novels and people win oscars for it - its because you write with a different purpose.

[piemanz]

iakus wrote...

piemanz wrote...

You honestly think ME2 would have the same plot if he had not of died?.I find this staggering.

In an alternate timeline...

Shepard spends the next two years on the fringes of known space, looking fro evidence of Reapers and past cullings, neglecting his duties to chase down any possible lead on lost civilizations.  He quickly burns through the goodwill saving the Citadel cost him, becoming something of an embarassment to the Council and the Alliance. A few supporters like Anderson and Hackett shield him from the worst of the fallout though. 

One by one, his friends leave, called away or transferred to other posts.  Funding dries up.  The Citadel stops listening to him, convinced that with Sovereign dead, any Reaper threat must be gone forever.  Finally, in the Terminus Systems, The Normandy is attacked by an unknown vessel.  They barely manage to escape, but badly damaged and with several casualties. 

Shepard finally arrives at Omega.  THe Normandy is little more than a wreck, run by a skeleton crew.  Out of resources and rapidly running out of options, he is met by Miranda Lawson and Jacob Taylor, who come representing a "wealthy benefactor" who believes in the Reapers and wants to help...

And you think the plot they went with has holes?.

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

A burned out Shepard, who's friends and allies have all abandoned him would be a pretty different game. Shepard would no longer be the hero of the citadel but nutcase Shepard who howls at the moon..

Most of Shepard's friends and allies have turned their backs on him and/or his cause.  Almost no one believes in Reapers.  Shepard being the "hero of the Citadel" carries almost no weight in ME 2.  And the turian counseler outright suggests Shepard is unbalanced already.

Shepard may not be "burned out" (though he was likely burned to a crisp by the start of ME 2), but I think the concept I wrote, while it could use some refining, would ultimately have changed very little overall in ME 2. 

[HBC Dresden]

iakus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

A burned out Shepard, who's friends and allies have all abandoned him would be a pretty different game. Shepard would no longer be the hero of the citadel but nutcase Shepard who howls at the moon..

Most of Shepard's friends and allies have turned their backs on him and/or his cause.  Almost no one believes in Reapers.  Shepard being the "hero of the Citadel" carries almost no weight in ME 2.  And the turian counseler outright suggests Shepard is unbalanced already.

Shepard may not be "burned out" (though he was likely burned to a crisp by the start of ME 2), but I think the concept I wrote, while it could use some refining, would ultimately have changed very little overall in ME 2. 

Except now Shep has new best buddies, over 12 of them, in his or her's new merc crew by the end of ME2. Boo yah.

[Il Divo]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

A burned out Shepard, who's friends and allies have all abandoned him would be a pretty different game. Shepard would no longer be the hero of the citadel but nutcase Shepard who howls at the moon.

You know, that might be a more logical progression, less fantastic if you will, but I think players would hate that a lot more.

Switching Shepard to experience the joys and tribulations of the Renegade faction is much better done the way they did it. I think its simply an example of how video game writing is different than other media. So many people are expecting writig to all play out as a novel but it doesn't work that way. That's why there are movie adaptations of novels and people win oscars for it - its because you write with a different purpose.

This is a very good point, as the Watchmen film demonstrated. As a graphic novel, Watchmen was terrific and it was clear that Snyder intended the film for all those fans. But while enjoyable, it simply wasn't able to capture the comic's brilliance. Snyder simply ripped much of the dialogue/scenes out of the comic without considering how to implement them properly. When converting between any genre (book to movie, game to book, etc), you cannot simply copy and paste the final result.

[Whatever42]

iakus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

A burned out Shepard, who's friends and allies have all abandoned him would be a pretty different game. Shepard would no longer be the hero of the citadel but nutcase Shepard who howls at the moon..

Most of Shepard's friends and allies have turned their backs on him and/or his cause.  Almost no one believes in Reapers.  Shepard being the "hero of the Citadel" carries almost no weight in ME 2.  And the turian counseler outright suggests Shepard is unbalanced already.

Shepard may not be "burned out" (though he was likely burned to a crisp by the start of ME 2), but I think the concept I wrote, while it could use some refining, would ultimately have changed very little overall in ME 2. 

The Normandy crew has people who practically worship Shepard because he's a hero and they seem him as invincible. Listen to the dialogue around the ship. And Tali, Garrus, Chakwas, Anderson, Liara, Wrex all clearly think very highly of Shepard. Even the council will return his Spectre status because he's so well thought of. Merchants give him discounts because he's a hero.

So the Council disrespects him still - as they did all through ME1 - but still give him his due as a hero and this suggests to you that he carries no weight?

Now image burned out Shepard, drummed out of the Spectres, and after two years probably the Alliance. Not even Anderson can support him. He's probably been publically discredited by this point. Everyone, not just the council, has doubts about him. He probably has doubts about himself.

You think paragon shepards wouldn't freak out even more? At this point he's not simply a paragon forced into a renagade role from which he can return, he's pretty much broken down and turned renegade. I'm not saying this is a bad story and I agree that it's less fantastical, but it gets back to my point about how novels are different than video games.

They wanted Shepard to work for both paragon and renegade factions. However, they also wanted the Shepard's character to be determine by the player. The arc above, while great, would force a defined personality on Shepard that many players would hate. Many paragon Sheps hate even working for Cerberus. Forcing Shepard to transform down such a dark road would be dramatic but it would remove much of  the ability for the player to project their own personalities onto Shepard.

Again, its a different media so its written differently. Foremost, its a video game and the story has to support that.

[Whatever42]

Il Divo wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

A burned out Shepard, who's friends and allies have all abandoned him would be a pretty different game. Shepard would no longer be the hero of the citadel but nutcase Shepard who howls at the moon.

You know, that might be a more logical progression, less fantastic if you will, but I think players would hate that a lot more.

Switching Shepard to experience the joys and tribulations of the Renegade faction is much better done the way they did it. I think its simply an example of how video game writing is different than other media. So many people are expecting writig to all play out as a novel but it doesn't work that way. That's why there are movie adaptations of novels and people win oscars for it - its because you write with a different purpose.

This is a very good point, as the Watchmen film demonstrated. As a graphic novel, Watchmen was terrific and it was clear that Snyder intended the film for all those fans. But while enjoyable, it simply wasn't able to capture the comic's brilliance. Snyder simply ripped much of the dialogue/scenes out of the comic without considering how to implement them properly. When converting between any genre (book to movie, game to book, etc), you cannot simply copy and paste the final result.

Exactly! There are many poor adaptations out there because the movie writer had trouble transforming one media into another. On the other hand there are some adaptations that are so brilliant people even enjoy it more than the original media.

[piemanz]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

A burned out Shepard, who's friends and allies have all abandoned him would be a pretty different game. Shepard would no longer be the hero of the citadel but nutcase Shepard who howls at the moon..

Most of Shepard's friends and allies have turned their backs on him and/or his cause.  Almost no one believes in Reapers.  Shepard being the "hero of the Citadel" carries almost no weight in ME 2.  And the turian counseler outright suggests Shepard is unbalanced already.

Shepard may not be "burned out" (though he was likely burned to a crisp by the start of ME 2), but I think the concept I wrote, while it could use some refining, would ultimately have changed very little overall in ME 2. 

The Normandy crew has people who practically worship Shepard because he's a hero and they seem him as invincible. Listen to the dialogue around the ship. And Tali, Garrus, Chakwas, Anderson, Liara, Wrex all clearly think very highly of Shepard. Even the council will return his Spectre status because he's so well thought of. Merchants give him discounts because he's a hero.

So the Council disrespects him still - as they did all through ME1 - but still give him his due as a hero and this suggests to you that he carries no weight?

Now image burned out Shepard, drummed out of the Spectres, and after two years probably the Alliance. Not even Anderson can support him. He's probably been publically discredited by this point. Everyone, not just the council, has doubts about him. He probably has doubts about himself.

You think paragon shepards wouldn't freak out even more? At this point he's not simply a paragon forced into a renagade role from which he can return, he's pretty much broken down and turned renegade. I'm not saying this is a bad story and I agree that it's less fantastical, but it gets back to my point about how novels are different than video games.

They wanted Shepard to work for both paragon and renegade factions. However, they also wanted the Shepard's character to be determine by the player. The arc above, while great, would force a defined personality on Shepard that many players would hate. Many paragon Sheps hate even working for Cerberus. Forcing Shepard to transform down such a dark road would be dramatic but it would remove much of  the ability for the player to project their own personalities onto Shepard.

Again, its a different media so its written differently. Foremost, its a video game and the story has to support that.

Exactly.Having shepard die at the beginning of ME2 is not only an awesome way to start the game but it also allows them to account for the 2 years between games and leave shepard with virtually no emotional baggage from that time period.

This allows the player to import their character from ME1 to ME2 and be the same person they were in the first game.I honestly don't think they could have done it any better.

[CroGamer002]

piemanz wrote...

Exactly.Having shepard die at the beginning of ME2 is not only an awesome way to start the game but it also allows them to account for the 2 years between games and leave shepard with virtually no emotional baggage from that time period.

This allows the player to import their character from ME1 to ME2 and be the same person they were in the first game.I honestly don't think they could have done it any better.

Well they could have made it skipable.

[piemanz]

Mesina2 wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Exactly.Having shepard die at the beginning of ME2 is not only an awesome way to start the game but it also allows them to account for the 2 years between games and leave shepard with virtually no emotional baggage from that time period.

This allows the player to import their character from ME1 to ME2 and be the same person they were in the first game.I honestly don't think they could have done it any better.

Well they could have made it skipable.

HaHa yea, it is a bit of a pain in the ass if you're creating your own character.

Modifié par piemanz, 16 mars 2011 - 06:25 .

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The Normandy crew has people who practically worship Shepard because he's a hero and they seem him as invincible. Listen to the dialogue around the ship. And Tali, Garrus, Chakwas, Anderson, Liara, Wrex all clearly think very highly of Shepard. Even the council will return his Spectre status because he's so well thought of. Merchants give him discounts because he's a hero.

So the Council disrespects him still - as they did all through ME1 - but still give him his due as a hero and this suggests to you that he carries no weight?

Now image burned out Shepard, drummed out of the Spectres, and after two years probably the Alliance. Not even Anderson can support him. He's probably been publically discredited by this point. Everyone, not just the council, has doubts about him. He probably has doubts about himself.

You think paragon shepards wouldn't freak out even more? At this point he's not simply a paragon forced into a renagade role from which he can return, he's pretty much broken down and turned renegade. I'm not saying this is a bad story and I agree that it's less fantastical, but it gets back to my point about how novels are different than video games.

They wanted Shepard to work for both paragon and renegade factions. However, they also wanted the Shepard's character to be determine by the player. The arc above, while great, would force a defined personality on Shepard that many players would hate. Many paragon Sheps hate even working for Cerberus. Forcing Shepard to transform down such a dark road would be dramatic but it would remove much of  the ability for the player to project their own personalities onto Shepard.

Again, its a different media so its written differently. Foremost, its a video game and the story has to support that.

I absolutely believe that it would make no difference how paragon Shepard was.  Look at what we were given:



Garrus: Yeah I tried to go back to C-Sec and make a difference, just like I told you. But that stuff you taught me? Didn’t take. Now I’m a bad**** vigilante and much happier for it. Oh, right, Reapers. Almost forgot about those".
 
Kaiden/Ashley: "Traitor!"
 
Council: "Ah, yes, ‘Reapers’..."
 
Udina: “"Commander do the words 'political ::expletive::' mean anything to you!?"
 
Wrex: “Wait, you were dead?”
 
Liara (pre LOTSB)   “Can’t talk now, must kill Shadow Broker. Saving the galaxy can wait”
 
Various shopkeepers: “You saved the Citadel! Endorse my shop and get a discount! Reapers? What are those?”
 
Normandy Crew: “We believe you, Shepard!”
 Shepard: "You realize we’re working for a quasi terrorist organization which has among its crimes, the murder of dozens, if not hundreds of Alliance marines, an Alliance admiral, unethical, even torturous experiments on both humans and aliens, not to mention an abysmal safety record?" 
 Normandy Crew ::blank stares:: “We believe you, Shepard!”
TIM:  "I only said I didn't put a control chip in Shepard's head" 

TIM: “I believe you, Shepard”
Shepard: “Kasumi, open up the bar. I need a drink”

Being ignored and seen as an embarassment is not the same as being "drummed out".  He is, after all, the Hero of the Citadel.  He'd simply be an embarassment, one whom they want on the fringes of space so they don't have to listen to him.  Kinda like if Shep gets his Spectre status back, as long as he stays in the Terminus, where such a title means very little anyway.  Anderson even admits it's nothing more than a token gesture, a ceremonial title more than anything else.

Doubts...he's working alongside Cerberus! I don't care if he died or not, he should have doubts if this is the kind if help he needs.  I wish they could have been voiced pre-LOTSB

But in the end, a paragon Shep could still overcome this adversity and keep a positive outlook

"People are messy, awkward, somtimes selfish or cruel.  But they're trying.  And I'm going to make sure they have a chance."  I fail to see how a paragon who lived through two years of being shouted down by others, called crazy or idiotic for his beliefs couldn't still keep that thought in his head or heart.

Look at me, I've been here for a year banging my head against a wall

[Anacronian Stryx]

piemanz wrote...

Exactly.Having shepard die at the beginning of ME2 is not only an awesome way to start the game but it also allows them to account for the 2 years between games and leave shepard with virtually no emotional baggage from that time period.

This allows the player to import their character from ME1 to ME2 and be the same person they were in the first game.I honestly don't think they could have done it any better.

They could have had the Geth find and resurrect Sheps body instead of Cerberus.. i don't know but when it comes to pulling of magical tech i do trust the Geth Tech-fu more than Cerberus.

Also this would leave many options open since they are going to split up the Geth into fractions anyway they could have kept Ce rebus the crazy terrorist organization they where in ME1 - adding to the pressure of our hero.

They could add even more to the pressure by stating that Shep cant go to the citadel since he/she has Geth hardware inside - so basically having him/her cut of from any support and having to find his/her own alliances and team (maybe even stealing the SR2 from Cerberus..would be cool ).   

[Whatever42]

The VS sent you an apology.

The Council still gave you your spectre status back.

Udina was a ****** to you in ME1 too.

Garrus still loves you and doesn't think your a nutjob.

Liara also still loves you and doesn't think your a nutjob.

Some of the crew is pro-Cerberus and pro-Shepard. Some don't care about Cerberus and is pro-Shepard. Regardless, everyone still idolizes Shepard. Shepard isn't some washed-out has-been.

Bascially, everyone still loves Shepard (except maybe the council, who still respect Shepard - or at least Shepard's popularity). After two years of barking at the moon and getting drummed out of the Spectres, Shepard would be sneered at. Even if Shepard remained the same old person after 2 years of that kind of abuse, paragon Shep would have lost all credibility and mystique. And I believe Smudboy would have produced a whole part in his series about how Shepard being all paragony would be a massive plothole.

And then to the point of writing novels versus video games - a dramatic turning point is much easier and more exciting then a few paragraphs describing how Shepard got turfed from the Spectres and is wandering the galaxy like a hobo looking for terrorists to supply a ship.That's not very cinematic or dramatic.

[Whatever42]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

They could have had the Geth find and resurrect Sheps body instead of Cerberus.. i don't know but when it comes to pulling of magical tech i do trust the Geth Tech-fu more than Cerberus.

Also this would leave many options open since they are going to split up the Geth into fractions anyway they could have kept Ce rebus the crazy terrorist organization they where in ME1 - adding to the pressure of our hero.

They could add even more to the pressure by stating that Shep cant go to the citadel since he/she has Geth hardware inside - so basically having him/her cut of from any support and having to find his/her own alliances and team (maybe even stealing the SR2 from Cerberus..would be cool ).   

ME1 and ME2 are two parallel plots.  In ME1 Shepard takes orders from the paragon faction (internationalist, cooperative, cautious). In ME2, Shepard works for the renegade faction (isolationist, suspicious, reckless). Paragon Shep loves the Council (gives speeches about how wonderful they are, saves the council, group hugs) and hates Ceberus (spits in TIMS eyes, ends Overlord, sends data on Ceberus to Alliance, blows up base). Renegade Shep hates the Council (hangs up on them, lets them die) and loves Cerberus (high-fives with TIM, saves Overlord, saves Collector base).

Geth doesn't reall fit in with that. And I guarantee Smudboy would still say ressurection is impossible.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

They could have had the Geth find and resurrect Sheps body instead of Cerberus.. i don't know but when it comes to pulling of magical tech i do trust the Geth Tech-fu more than Cerberus.

Also this would leave many options open since they are going to split up the Geth into fractions anyway they could have kept Ce rebus the crazy terrorist organization they where in ME1 - adding to the pressure of our hero.

They could add even more to the pressure by stating that Shep cant go to the citadel since he/she has Geth hardware inside - so basically having him/her cut of from any support and having to find his/her own alliances and team (maybe even stealing the SR2 from Cerberus..would be cool ).   

ME1 and ME2 are two parallel plots.  In ME1 Shepard takes orders from the paragon faction (internationalist, cooperative, cautious). In ME2, Shepard works for the renegade faction (isolationist, suspicious, reckless). Paragon Shep loves the Council (gives speeches about how wonderful they are, saves the council, group hugs) and hates Ceberus (spits in TIMS eyes, ends Overlord, sends data on Ceberus to Alliance, blows up base). Renegade Shep hates the Council (hangs up on them, lets them die) and loves Cerberus (high-fives with TIM, saves Overlord, saves Collector base).

True but you could also have a parallel renegade plot the way i suggest it, Have Sheppard alone with minimal backing willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done in spite of having the disadvantage of being implanted with the tech of the Geth(the big buggy man of ME1) ..in a way it actually sounds much more like Biowares own description of what Renegade means.

Geth doesn't reall fit in with that. And I guarantee Smudboy would still say ressurection is impossible.

I'm not so sure, One of the things that makes the whole scenario so unpalatable for many people is the fact that some powerful but small terrorist organization actually achieved the tech of resurrection while a entire universe of doctors and techs didn't, Now if it instead was achive by a big unknown force like the Geth it wouldn't seem so unreasonable ..after all those busy robots are building a freaking Dyson's sphere which is like the most insane far out feat of construction imaginable.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


Switching Shepard to experience the joys and tribulations of the Renegade faction is much better done the way they did it. I think its simply an example of how video game writing is different than other media. So many people are expecting writig to all play out as a novel but it doesn't work that way. That's why there are movie adaptations of novels and people win oscars for it - its because you write with a different purpose.

How about this. Have Shepard pull of a Riply (from aliens)? Have him escape on his own escape shuttle but have it be damaged by the collectors, resulting in it going adrift and whatever mechanics that supposed to send coordinants to the alliance malfuntions. Granted it would have to be some sort of medical shuttle with some sort of stasis pod or something.

Cerberus finds shuttle and Bioware have an excuse to have two years fly by. And it avoids all the issues that killing and bringing someone back from the dead comes with.

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The VS sent you an apology.

Only if they're the LI fro the first game, otherwise you're outta luck

The Council still gave you your spectre status back.

 
Turian Councilor: "This Reaper theory proves just how fragile your mental state is"

Anderson:  "You realize the Council's offer is just symbolic.  They won't actually do anything"

Udina was a ****** to you in ME1 too.

 "Shepard's right.  We're on the verge of war with an enemy unlike any the galaxy has ever known!  A war for the survival of all life as we know it!  Humanity is ready to do its part.  We will not back down. We will not surrender.  We will lead you into battle against the Reapers and drive them Back into dark space!"

Garrus still loves you and doesn't think your a nutjob.

He also walked away from any chance to help prepare for the Reapers.

Liara also still loves you and doesn't think your a nutjob.

That's because prior to LOTSB, she was the nutjob.

Some of the crew is pro-Cerberus and pro-Shepard. Some don't care about Cerberus and is pro-Shepard. Regardless, everyone still idolizes Shepard. Shepard isn't some washed-out has-been.

Who's to say he has to be a washed-up has been, just because he's in disafavor with the Powers that Be?  Wouldn't an Alliance hero on the outs with the Citadel appear to be a perfect recruit for Cerberus? 

And then to the point of writing novels versus video games - a dramatic turning point is much easier and more exciting then a few paragraphs describing how Shepard got turfed from the Spectres and is wandering the galaxy like a hobo looking for terrorists to supply a ship.That's not very cinematic or dramatic.

Isn't a hobo wandering the galaxy pretty much what Shepard is now?  Particularly if he's paragon and cuts ties to Cerberus?  No job, no Citadel backing, no rank, almost all his friends are on the Normandy?  Virtually all his possessions given to him by Cerberus (thus bearing their logo)

Even when waking up in the Cerberus lab, that's his situation.  No friends, no worldly possessions at all, no home.  SInce he's dead, he doesn't even have an identity.  Essentially a nonentity.   How is this at all different?  Except for the Magical Ressurection Machine?

Modifié par iakus, 17 mars 2011 - 12:25 .

[Rekkampum]

Il Divo wrote...

This is a very good point, as the Watchmen film demonstrated. As a graphic novel, Watchmen was terrific and it was clear that Snyder intended the film for all those fans. But while enjoyable, it simply wasn't able to capture the comic's brilliance. Snyder simply ripped much of the dialogue/scenes out of the comic without considering how to implement them properly. When converting between any genre (book to movie, game to book, etc), you cannot simply copy and paste the final result.

Don't see how watching a big blue guy naked with a 100 meter dong qualifies as entertainment. Also, the heroine of that movie makes Miranda's Cerberus outfit look like Commando armor. Not to mention she was a terrible actress. That film, as Alan Moore famously said, was nothing more than jumble of "semiotic spaghetti".

Off the rant, I think Mass Effect will be an interesting story to adapt into film. I hope that it becomes more than a straight-to-DVD slush pile.

[JKoopman]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

They could have had the Geth find and resurrect Sheps body instead of Cerberus.. i don't know but when it comes to pulling of magical tech i do trust the Geth Tech-fu more than Cerberus.

Also this would leave many options open since they are going to split up the Geth into fractions anyway they could have kept Ce rebus the crazy terrorist organization they where in ME1 - adding to the pressure of our hero.

They could add even more to the pressure by stating that Shep cant go to the citadel since he/she has Geth hardware inside - so basically having him/her cut of from any support and having to find his/her own alliances and team (maybe even stealing the SR2 from Cerberus..would be cool ).   

ME1 and ME2 are two parallel plots.  In ME1 Shepard takes orders from the paragon faction (internationalist, cooperative, cautious). In ME2, Shepard works for the renegade faction (isolationist, suspicious, reckless). Paragon Shep loves the Council (gives speeches about how wonderful they are, saves the council, group hugs) and hates Ceberus (spits in TIMS eyes, ends Overlord, sends data on Ceberus to Alliance, blows up base). Renegade Shep hates the Council (hangs up on them, lets them die) and loves Cerberus (high-fives with TIM, saves Overlord, saves Collector base).

Geth doesn't reall fit in with that. And I guarantee Smudboy would still say ressurection is impossible.

I'm so tired of seeing people echo this fallacious idea that the Council from ME1 was "The Paragon Faction". The Council were neutral at best. They were the Politically Correct Faction, and like any government entity they were concerned only with their own best interests and the advancement of their own agendas. Sanctioning the rachni genocide? Shunning the quarians after the geth uprising? Infecting the krogan with the Genophage? Using humanity to settle the Attican Traverse and then turning their backs on them when their colonies came under attack? Betraying their new human Spectre once the immediate threat seemed to be dealt with? Turning their backs on him again in ME2 after he'd saved their lives? Do those sound like things that Paragons would do? The Council (or at least the asari and salarian Councilors) even supported the Renegade decision to destroy the Rachni Queen.

You weren't working for the "Paragons" in ME1 and the "Renegades" in ME2. You were simply working for the government in ME1, and you work for terrorists in ME2.

Modifié par JKoopman, 17 mars 2011 - 02:25 .

[Il Divo]

Rekkampum wrote...

Don't see how watching a big blue guy naked with a 100 meter dong qualifies as entertainment. Also, the heroine of that movie makes Miranda's Cerberus outfit look like Commando armor. Not to mention she was a terrible actress. That film, as Alan Moore famously said, was nothing more than jumble of "semiotic spaghetti".

And yet, for all its flaws (and there are many flaws) it was an incredibly fun film to watch, simply because it was an adaptation of something I loved. I have no illusions that the film is nothing compared to the graphic novel, but that does not negate the enjoyment I felt watching Rorschach escape from the police, his opening monologue, the Vietnam War, etc. It was a film that was designed to bring all our favorite moments from the comic book to the big screen, no more no less.

It's simply a perfect example of What is talking about with how you can't simply copy and paste from one genre to another. The Godfather film was quite different from the book, yet it's widely considered one of the greatest films ever made. Watchmen is a pretty accurate conversion, yet was a colossal failure. Or look at any video game adaptation for a perfect example of this.

[squee913]

I find it a little strange that the only thing people are arguing over is Shep's death and resurrection. Should this suggest that the only faults anyone finds with my videos are those two arguments? I was hoping to debate different aspects of the game, not just the opening scene. I would argue that one plot point (good or bad) does not make a bad game, and yet that is what 90% of the people on this thread are complaining about.

[Whatever42]

squee913 wrote...

I find it a little strange that the only thing people are arguing over is Shep's death and resurrection. Should this suggest that the only faults anyone finds with my videos are those two arguments? I was hoping to debate different aspects of the game, not just the opening scene. I would argue that one plot point (good or bad) does not make a bad game, and yet that is what 90% of the people on this thread are complaining about.

It's the strongest plot hole they have. Just make part II and we'll move on.

[Whatever42]

JKoopman wrote...

I'm so tired of seeing people echo this fallacious idea that the Council from ME1 was "The Paragon Faction". The Council were neutral at best. They were the Politically Correct Faction, and like any government entity they were concerned only with their own best interests and the advancement of their own agendas. Sanctioning the rachni genocide? Shunning the quarians after the geth uprising? Infecting the krogan with the Genophage? Using humanity to settle the Attican Traverse and then turning their backs on them when their colonies came under attack? Betraying their new human Spectre once the immediate threat seemed to be dealt with? Turning their backs on him again in ME2 after he'd saved their lives? Do those sound like things that Paragons would do? The Council (or at least the asari and salarian Councilors) even supported the Renegade decision to destroy the Rachni Queen.

You weren't working for the "Paragons" in ME1 and the "Renegades" in ME2. You were simply working for the government in ME1, and you work for terrorists in ME2.

Paragon isn't good. Renegade isn't evil. Paragon Shep isn't 100% on board with the Council, renegade Shep isn't 100% on board with TIM. Both factions were meant to be flawed - like the Republic in Star Wars and the Empire. You could still be a lightside Jedi and work for the arrogant, ineffectual Repbulic. The Republic is still obviously the lightside. This isn't a direct parallel of that  but its pretty close.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 17 mars 2011 - 03:08 .

[Iakus]

squee913 wrote...

I find it a little strange that the only thing people are arguing over is Shep's death and resurrection. Should this suggest that the only faults anyone finds with my videos are those two arguments? I was hoping to debate different aspects of the game, not just the opening scene. I would argue that one plot point (good or bad) does not make a bad game, and yet that is what 90% of the people on this thread are complaining about.

You'll find I argue most about ME 2's story in regards to

1 Shepard's death/ressurection

2 the meeting on Horizon

3) Reaper larva

4 The insular nature of the squad

Those are my biggest stumbling blocks with the game.  Not that there aren't more, but those are what really kill the game for me.

[squee913]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

squee913 wrote...

I find it a little strange that the only thing people are arguing over is Shep's death and resurrection. Should this suggest that the only faults anyone finds with my videos are those two arguments? I was hoping to debate different aspects of the game, not just the opening scene. I would argue that one plot point (good or bad) does not make a bad game, and yet that is what 90% of the people on this thread are complaining about.

It's the strongest plot hole they have. Just make part II and we'll move on.

Part 2 was up sunday my friend. I beleive someone already posted the link but here it is again if ya need it