271 réponses à ce sujet

[randName]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Not in ME1. The main quest is supposed to be urgent. Shepard shouldn't be wasting his time on most of that crap.

Depends on Shepard.

In my first attempt to play the game, I designed Shepard as a sort of absent-minded professor.

Though, the voice broke that design pretty much immediately.

I'm never one for the urgency since I normally do all the sidequests first, so yeah.

& maybe you could have made him into a poncy kind of professor that creeps up on people.


@PsychoWARD23 : This is not a life and death debate; while some turds have been flying, and there are some flinging them, at least for me its all in good fun. & debates like these, while rather pointless admist hunger and war, have occupied nerds since the invention of the wheel probably, well the gear/clothing one was at least feverish around the time for NWN and their henchmen & not one that has any reason to die down just because the game is gold, nor due to any attempt to make this, or any developer change their product.

Modifié par randName, 07 mars 2011 - 11:15 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

IMHO...

While I enjoy being able to provide armor for my companions, it simply makes sense that they decide what they wear for armor instead of what I as a player may dictate.

I look at it this way, the companions are supposed to be sentient beings and can decide for themselves what best suits them, or is otherwise acceptable to them, and I am happy enough with being able to provide them with additional items that they can use, be it rings, amulets, belts, runes, etc.

This point of view makes sense if you view the game as if you're inhabiting the PC, so then any instructions you give the companions are as if they are instructions the PC is giving to the companions.

However, I see the PC as a character as independent from me as the companions are.  If I can dress one, why not the others?

[AlanC9]

randName wrote...
I would for example keep around a set of Wade dragon skin for my Rogue and a set of Wade Plate for my tank; I would use these when I would set rooms on a blaze, or the enemy would. I would in some fights prefer my tank in plate, as heavy as possible, and in the next fight doing damage, and not soaking damage, was the issue the very same character would dress in cloth or light leather Armour to get more out of her/his stamina.

I understand that this is tiresome, esp. on Normal, or even hard, but I find it a challenge not to do these things on some of the fights on Nightmare, esp. using the mods I did that further improves enemies and their numbers.

Hmm... at this point I think I just disagree with you about the best tactics in DAO. I guess we could ask soteria for an opinion.

[AlanC9]

randName wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Not in ME1. The main quest is supposed to be urgent. Shepard shouldn't be wasting his time on most of that crap.

Depends on Shepard.

In my first attempt to play the game, I designed Shepard as a sort of absent-minded professor.

Though, the voice broke that design pretty much immediately.

I'm never one for the urgency since I normally do all the sidequests first, so yeah.

& maybe you could have made him into a poncy kind of professor that creeps up on people.

I find it kind of hard to envision an absent-minded professor type getting to Shepard's rank and duties.

But as usual, the gameplay issues turn out to be based on personal tastes. I'm pro-urgency. I've always regretted that developers have dumbed down RPGs by eliminating timed quests.

[Sylvianus]

While I enjoy being able to provide armor for my companions, it simply makes sense that they decide what they wear for armor instead of what I as a player may dictate.

Sorry Selene, but the fanservice that spilled M2 and a bit in DA2, not arguing at all for this system.

Look at the clothes of Samara or rather Miranda.  During almost the whole game, we'll be stuck with its slinky held when we are under fire. It's fanservice for teenagers excited. It will always be like that. Companies got to attract.

It will force me to watch the pants to Isabella, her chest, with its scantily clad as she battle against dragons, darkspawn. Break immersion. It would have been so easy to change to something that I appreciate more as I continue the adventure. ^ ^

When I could change this horrible outfit that's dirty her, while I like her ? Probably infortunately only in the second half of the game ..
If people want to keep her default clothes, ok, but  do not force me. Freedom, choice, and personal taste. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie] 

Modifié par Sylvianus, 07 mars 2011 - 11:18 .

[randName]

Sylvianus wrote...

While I enjoy being able to provide armor for my companions, it simply makes sense that they decide what they wear for armor instead of what I as a player may dictate.

Sorry Selene, but the fanservice that spilled M2 and a bit in DA2, not arguing at all for this system.

Look at the clothes of Samara or rather Miranda.  During almost the whole game, we'll be stuck with its slinky held. when we are under fire. It's fanservice for teenagers excited. It will always be like that. Companies got to attract.

It will force me to watch the pants to Isabella, her chest, with its scantily clad as she battle. Break immersion. It would have been so easy to change to something that I appreciate more as I continue the adventure. ^ ^

When I could change this horrible outfit that's dirty her, while I like her ? Probably infortunately only in the second half of the game ..

If people want to keep her default clothes, ok, but  do not force me. Freedom, choice, and personal taste. 

It was even worse in ME2 since they are not just your companions, you are in fact their commander; and if they wouldn't do as you asked them, at least under a renegade sheppard, they would have been shot for insubordination. At least mine would have, or maybe she would have sent them out in space to die alone.

Modifié par randName, 07 mars 2011 - 11:19 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

I find it kind of hard to envision an absent-minded professor type getting to Shepard's rank and duties.

Do we have any idea what Shepard's duties were prior to joining the Normandy?  I certainly don't recall the game telling me about any of that in any detail during character creation or in the manual, which is where that information would need to be.

Shepard's described as effective.  There are lots of different ways to be effective.

But again, MaleShep's voice was awful for that character design.

But as usual, the gameplay issues turn out to be based on personal tastes. I'm pro-urgency. I've always regretted that developers have dumbed down RPGs by eliminating timed quests.

I'm pro-exploration.  Urgency can sometimes butt-heads with exploration (but not necessarily, depending how each is done).

I want to see more games where we don't know what the main quest is right from the start.  BG did this.  Ultima VII did this.

Another alternative would be to make the ultimate objective of the main quest clear, but offer no guidance at all as to how to reach that objective.  That would produce a lot of urgent exploration.

[randName]

AlanC9 wrote...
But as usual, the gameplay issues turn out to be based on personal tastes. I'm pro-urgency. I've always regretted that developers have dumbed down RPGs by eliminating timed quests.

I agree with you here. 

I wish they would add that back, but people got so angry over FO1 and the water quest, have that ever been redone in any game? 

(for those that missed it you have a certain number of days to get water for your vault, there are several ways to do this - but if you fail everyone in the vault dies. So once you get water to the vault the next timer starts, but this one is hidden, and this one counts down the days until mutants overun the vault. The devious thing here, was that if you got extra water to the vault, you could buy yourself an other 50 days to find a more permanent solution, but by doing so the hidden counter to the mutant attack was cut with 50 days since the vault was now easier to find. So lots of people would be out exploring when suddenly you would get a video of the vault being overrun, and your friends slaugthered, and then the game would end in failure: Also if you didn't have old saves you had to restart unless you were close enough to the mutant base so that you could end their invasion before the hidden timer went to zero. The hidden timer was patched purged, and was regretfully lost to the world).

But without timed quests I don't feel the urgency and I don't rush it.

Modifié par randName, 07 mars 2011 - 11:29 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sylvianus wrote...

When I could change this horrible outfit that's dirty her, while I like her ? Probably infortunately only in the second half of the game ..
If people want to keep her default clothes, ok, but  do not force me. Freedom, choice, and personal taste.

This was a problem for me in ME2.  I liked having Jack in the squad, but I couldn't stand to look at her.

I installed a mod to change her appearance.

[Ginggis Khan]

Oh wow, this is a surprise for me, I play all Bioware games but didn't do much reading on DA2, I am sitting on SWTOR forums often. But I see how this can be actually better, it will give me more time to spend on the game itself, but it is kinda of a odd innovation since we are used to these kind of customizations in RPGs.

I mean next step is make the game like Force Unleashed where you just dumb go through levels killing things. Now THAT is NOT RPG in my opinion but a hollywood movie game... I hope they are not going to go beyond locking armor on companions in future games, I am glad they didn't do it in SWTOR at least... phew.. thanks goodness.

[mesmerizedish]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

When I could change this horrible outfit that's dirty her, while I like her ? Probably infortunately only in the second half of the game ..
If people want to keep her default clothes, ok, but  do not force me. Freedom, choice, and personal taste.

This was a problem for me in ME2.  I liked having Jack in the squad, but I couldn't stand to look at her.

I installed a mod to change her appearance.

Toggles, toggles for all

[ErebUs890]

GAME MUST BE CRAP!

[joriandrake]

randName wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

While I enjoy being able to provide armor for my companions, it simply makes sense that they decide what they wear for armor instead of what I as a player may dictate.

Sorry Selene, but the fanservice that spilled M2 and a bit in DA2, not arguing at all for this system.

Look at the clothes of Samara or rather Miranda.  During almost the whole game, we'll be stuck with its slinky held. when we are under fire. It's fanservice for teenagers excited. It will always be like that. Companies got to attract.

It will force me to watch the pants to Isabella, her chest, with its scantily clad as she battle. Break immersion. It would have been so easy to change to something that I appreciate more as I continue the adventure. ^ ^

When I could change this horrible outfit that's dirty her, while I like her ? Probably infortunately only in the second half of the game ..

If people want to keep her default clothes, ok, but  do not force me. Freedom, choice, and personal taste. 

It was even worse in ME2 since they are not just your companions, you are in fact their commander; and if they wouldn't do as you asked them, at least under a renegade sheppard, they would have been shot for insubordination. At least mine would have, or maybe she would have sent them out in space to die alone.

"God dammit Garrus, change your broken armor already... and no, I will NOT pay you extra for following an order and common sense!"

[Sylvianus]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

When
I could change this horrible outfit that's dirty her, while I like her
? Probably infortunately only in the second half of the game ..
If people want to keep her default clothes, ok, but  do not force me. Freedom, choice, and personal taste.

This was a problem for me in ME2.  I liked having Jack in the squad, but I couldn't stand to look at her.

I installed a mod to change her appearance.

I'm on console. 
So only PC gamers will have the right to taste better. What does add that in my zeal against this system.
I never took Jack too.

Her outfit with just a string to protect her breasts, is simply despicable. xD
How we think will fight collector with that?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 07 mars 2011 - 11:40 .

[Leiermann]

Some people open their eyes, great!. DA2 or this spinoff(to call it dragon age is a blasphem), uff i dont have any good word for it, best i forget it forever. Good night Cancelled 2 week ago.

[heronice1]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Less time/budget to create multiple models for each character.

FEATURE CUT.

We got a winner!

[Selene Moonsong]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

This point of view makes sense if you view the game as if you're inhabiting the PC, so then any instructions you give the companions are as if they are instructions the PC is giving to the companions, or at least can be considered a reasonable explanation.

However, I see the PC as a character as independent from me as the companions are.  If I can dress one, why not the others?

But that is EXACTLY my point about the design of DA II (see italics above) as I believe this is somewhat the intent behind this decision by the Devs.

We are covering a 10-year span of time and we won't always have control of the NPCs as they may not be available to the party at certain times during the game. What may seem like tactical sense to a player, to play the Companions as nothing more than extensions of your PC, doesn't necessarily make sense for the persona of the NPC.

I don't play as the companions, the Devs have already mapped them out, though they do give you the opportunity to decide which abilities and specialties they may have to some extent, but I do primarily play as my character, rather than as a detached tactical field marshall. Anything that I do as a player, I do it as seen as through my character's persona. 

This game is about your 'Hawke' character and those who happen to have thrown their lot in with you, from my perspective.

It's not that I don't like micromanagement, I actually do, in far more detail than most other RPG players actually care for, but as far as my decisions and determinations for equipping armor and weapons for NPC Companions, it is usually based more on the persona of the character more so than for detached strategic or tactical reasons. 

And, by the way, don't bother using ME as an example when addressing my perspective, I have never played it and have little or no knowledge of those games.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 07 mars 2011 - 11:58 .

[Sylvianus]

Less time/budget to create multiple models for each character.
FEATURE CUT.

I don't agree, and it's possible to find an interim solution, without going to the most expensive. Do we want the best rpgs or just good ?

Da2 will undoubtedly great, but it's sad to think it might be twice as good.

Continue to reduce, continue to allow less thing, to justify all the time the same thing. We shall then see what result we get. Needless to say, he can be scathing one day with this thinking only turned to money.  ^^

Modifié par Sylvianus, 07 mars 2011 - 11:55 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

This point of view makes sense if you view the game as if you're inhabiting the PC, so then any instructions you give the companions are as if they are instructions the PC is giving to the companions, or at least can be considered a reasonable explanation.

However, I see the PC as a character as independent from me as the companions are.  If I can dress one, why not the others?

But that is EXACTLY my point about the design of DA II (see italics above) as I believe this is somewhat the intent behind this decision by the Devs.

We are covering a 10-year span of time and we won't always have control of the NPCs as they may not be available to the party at certain times during the game. What may seem like tactical sense to a player, to play the Companions as nothing more than extensions of your PC, doesn't necessarily make sense for the persona of the NPC.

I don't play as the companions, the Devs have already mapped them out, though they do give you the opportunity to decide which abilities and specialties they may have to some extent, but I do primarily play as my character, rather than as a detached tactical field marshall. Anything that I do as a player, I do it as seen as through my character's persona. 

This game is about your 'Hawke' character and those who happen to have thrown their lot in with you, from my perspective.

It's not that I don't like micromanagement, I actually do, in far more detail than most other RPG players actually care for, but as far as my decisions and determinations for equipping armor and weapons for NPC Companions, it is usually based more on the persona of the character more so than for detached strategic or tactical reasons. 

And, by the way, don't bother using ME as an example when addressing my perspective, I have never played it and have little or no knowledge of those games.

Simply put it's gone from team/party based RPG imho to single playable character Action RPG with NPCs that follow you around and final nail in coffin will be the next step they take > Action Adventure. I personally like dressing my team in a specific way so they all look like part of a team not some random hillbillies who tag along. Also if I want my team to run naked through the streets slapping Darkspawn and other beasties for giggles I should be allowed to do so regardless of which system I choose to play on.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 mars 2011 - 12:02 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

And, by the way, don't bother using ME as an example when addressing my perspective, I have never played it and have little or no knowledge of those games.

That's not performance.

I played those games specifically so I could discuss their features.  They were research more than they were fun.

[Foop DK]

bigbrowncows wrote...

I was a bit suprised when I heard this but then I never really changed my companions armour that much in DA:O. All the armour that was available tended to make them look a bit samey. If they have their own distinctive look that upgrades as the story progresses then I'd rather have that than a band of clones...

Yea, when i first heard this, I was like "no way, why would they do that?" 

Then I thought about it, in DA:O all my companions either looked alike, or looked like the very enemies we were killing.

I also liked this system in ME2, albeit I would love more than 2 outfits, and the ability to chose between them (not counting DLC)

So, as this will give them a more unique look, while still allowing me to change some stats (which, tbh, I didn't really care much about in DA:O) and weapons, I'm actually starting to like this option better.

[Tomark]

Sylvianus wrote...


Continue to reduce, continue to allow less thing, to justify all the time the same thing. We shall then see what result we get. Needless to say, he can be scathing one day with this thinking only turned to money.  ^^

or i could say "continue to give your character a personility instead of the generic armors that made them look random".

[Selene Moonsong]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Simply put it's gone from team/party based RPG imho to single playable character Action RPG with NPCs that follow you around and final nail in coffin will be the next step they take > Action Adventure. I personally like dressing my team in a specific way so they all look like part of a team not some random hillbillies who tag along. Also if I want my team to run naked through the streets slapping Darkspawn and other beasties for giggles I should be allowed to do so regardless of which system I choose to play on.

Well, it is a cFRPG, not a squad from and elite military group, so they would look rather ragtag 

Joking aside though, what I would have preferred would to be able to offer armor/weapons to the companions and have them choose to accept or decline, similar to how gifts were handled in DA: Origins, that that's all water under the bridge for now.

I enjoy style selections as well,  so don't get me wrong, I can spend hours collecting armor and clothing to dress up my characters (companions included) in other games, and have always had to allow for my inventory to contain changes of clothes/armor. 

I hope a toolset is eventually provided, I would like to see what can be done with perhaps overrides or add-ins that could be created that is also somewhat in keeping with character persona as well. Of course, we all can pretty much guess what the first creations would be...
 

[Rann]

I like the new approach better. There's no ambiguity as to whether I should sell the stuff I find or try to equip it on someone else -- it's either all for Hawke or for coinage. In general I've always preferred letting my companions be as automatic as possible -- it feels more like party play than 3 (or 5) copies of "me."

Heck, I'm hoping that AIs will continue to improve in games until it gets to the point where my character can just bark out general orders ("Get a cone of cold on the ogre, Anders! Sebastian, get out of the way!") and my followers will execute them to the best of their abilities (with effectiveness perhaps even modifed by their intelligence score or rivalry score) -- and of course that includes them figuring out how they could be best equipped.

[Freakaz0idx]

of course you can change their armor....

... for 120 microsoft points.