271 réponses à ce sujet

[Duncan Anderson]

I'm endlessly amused by the idea that the people who think inventory management and mini maxing involve any kind of applied intelligence or mental stimulation are the very same ones who are portraying themselves as being in a position of intellectual superiority.

[james1976]

Lord_Darkmoon wrote...

http://www.gameinfor...x?PageIndex=4).

"3. Inventory Management Is Better
Your allies in Dragon Age II each have a set of armor that they wear all the time. This means that you can’t equip them with the helmets, boots, and gauntlets that you find in your quest. This may sound disappointing at first, but it results in you spending much less time in the menus sizing up and optimizing equipment. If you pick up a new suit of armor that isn’t an improvement for Hawke, you can just sell it; no need to look at all of your active and inactive party members to see if it’s better for them. Plus, you can still outfit your companions with rings, amulets, and belts, so the customization isn’t gone completely. Your inventory will be less cramped, especially since you get a storage chest early on and you aren’t carrying around crafting reagents all the time. "

What they consider better, I consider worse.  It's practically ME2 all over again

[AlanC9]

abadomen wrote...

 I prefer cutting the system to fiddling with it. 

Well...let's say there is something you like in DA2...pick anything...

If it is slightly flawed...would you rather they "FIX" that flaw...or get rid of it?

For example...one flaw some are noticing about DA2 is the supposed "cookie-cutter" mission/locations.

Should they fix this by adding more varied locations...or cut out sidequests all together and focus on the mainquest?

It depends on whether I think the particular feature is worth having in the first place, of course.

Without knowing more about the pacing and so forth of the main quest in DA2, I don't know if sidequests are worth having in the game. I can say that I would have preferred that about half of the ME1 sidequests be cut.

[Tielis]

FieryDove wrote...

chzrm3 wrote...

Also, it is a bit weird, right? Saying "Hey, Bethany. I picked out your clothes for you ." when you're busy with so many more important things? Your party members are all pretty strong people, it makes sense that they can figure out what they'd like to wear. XD

Strong people? If you mean in decision making no…weak as water.
I’ll repost what someone wrote several days ago…again. With even more blarney added.
 “Here equip this sword; here wear this bling (jewelry) Move to that spot, Cast fireball there, take shield bash next level.” Then we go to equip this breastplate its OMG no way my thong +10 is way better!

LOL exactly.  What's next, BioWare?  You take away even letting us control them at all?  Or if you give them an order sometimes they just ignore it and do whatever the heck they want anyway?

After all, that would be realistic, no?

[randName]

chzrm3 wrote...
Also, it is a bit weird, right? Saying "Hey, Bethany. I picked out your clothes for you ." when you're busy with so many more important things? Your party members are all pretty strong people, it makes sense that they can figure out what they'd like to wear. XD

No, you do it together; not on your own. Its not a fashion show, its not about being able to express your individuality.

If my tank needs to carry plate, he or she should carry plate, if the tank won't, and feels that he/she is better looking in leather, I need to find a new tank - who ever would do that would never work with me, ever.

& I build my character to make the best potential party, not a party around my character ~ so its not about my character craving that all should adjust to ME, no, its about we should adjust togheter. And I wish they AI/script would come up to me and say "Hey, wouldn' you be better suited for X than Y?". This would be lovely, but not very likely, unless its heavily scripted.

The reason I really like EVE, is that together you win, you plan for larger parties, not for your self ~ and if my companions wants to stay themselves and not change, I'd prefer to do it alone.

[Ecto-Plasmic Effect]

Inventory management was such a waste of time in DA:O.

[Raniall]

Having to dump your way through loads of inventory does not an RPG make.

[Raniall]

james1976 wrote...

Lord_Darkmoon wrote...

http://www.gameinfor...x?PageIndex=4).

"3. Inventory Management Is Better
Your allies in Dragon Age II each have a set of armor that they wear all the time. This means that you can’t equip them with the helmets, boots, and gauntlets that you find in your quest. This may sound disappointing at first, but it results in you spending much less time in the menus sizing up and optimizing equipment. If you pick up a new suit of armor that isn’t an improvement for Hawke, you can just sell it; no need to look at all of your active and inactive party members to see if it’s better for them. Plus, you can still outfit your companions with rings, amulets, and belts, so the customization isn’t gone completely. Your inventory will be less cramped, especially since you get a storage chest early on and you aren’t carrying around crafting reagents all the time. "

What they consider better, I consider worse.  It's practically ME2 all over again

And thank god for small favors.

[Sylvianus]

Let's see how the rpg will evolve in the future by players.

1 - No possibility to choose the clothes and armor companions : It is to give more personality !

2 - No possibility to change the weapons of our companions : It is to give more personality !

3-  No possibility to choose items to enhance the power of our companions :  It is to give more personality !

4-  No possibility choose the attribute points : It is to give more personality !

5 - No possibility to choose different companions 's powers, and in the order you want : It is to give more personality !

And why not, the PC can no longer change his clothes as we want, is the production that will decide for us.

Continue to reduce your rights and your freedom people, it makes me really laugh. We'll see who laughs best at the end.

Congratulations people, you'll allow Bioware to condemn the strengths of an rpg, with such ridiculous arguments.
The pleasure of choice, the gameplay is, and always has been. Will it ? With justifications such as I read, I'm afraid not.

Soon, the rpg will be more than movies, where we can no longer choose nor control anything, and the fans will pay very expensive. 

Modifié par Sylvianus, 07 mars 2011 - 09:56 .

[randName]

Duncan Anderson wrote...

I'm endlessly amused by the idea that the people who think inventory management and mini maxing involve any kind of applied intelligence or mental stimulation are the very same ones who are portraying themselves as being in a position of intellectual superiority.

& Ad Hominem are so effective at doing what? 



I prefer X because its more entertaining for me, it gives more immersion, and I enjoy it more. I don't play games to be intellectually challenged, but as escapism; a flight off this dreary rock into something else. A fine
thing, and one that demands certain conditions for it to work, DA2 will
for fill most of these, and so will these arguments; thus I ramble on, for pleasure.



Do I consider myself smart? No, I'm an intellectual toad; sure I know lots of things, and I score well on testes, but only due to a decent memory, not mental capacity; I'm no grand thinker, and I argue and debate since it brings me joy, but I need to wade low, or I'll be hammered down;  and in turn I argue for something that would also give me further delight and elation.

[Pyrate_d]

Aside from my character and the tank, I didn't spend any time upgrading armor in DAO. Not the biggest loss, though I can understand why people like to have all the little features intact.

[randName]

Raniall wrote...

Having to dump your way through loads of inventory does not an RPG make.

Neither does dialogue.

Nor combat.

Nor Exploration.

Whence will this madness stop? 

You are sounding like those that say that "one stroke of a brush does not art make".

No you can do it with pens, clay and words; we could have a RPG like systemshock without people nor dialogue, and it would most likely be great.

DA2 won't fall due to the removal of this, we all agree, but you seem to act like that's what we argue; and not that we feel that its removal will detract from the game.

& being able to change a character to better suit a role does strengthen roleplay; being able to change your hair, your skin, your nose, your eyes, name and voice, all these can strengthen roleplay. But PST, the best cRPG save FO1 had no visual character customization; we can scrap that too, but do you want to? 

[Morroian]

Duncan Anderson wrote...

I'm endlessly amused by the idea that the people who think inventory management and mini maxing involve any kind of applied intelligence or mental stimulation are the very same ones who are portraying themselves as being in a position of intellectual superiority.

This.

Its a trope nothing more and certainly not some fundamental part of role playing.

[Morroian]

randName wrote...

Duncan Anderson wrote...

I'm endlessly amused by the idea that the people who think inventory management and mini maxing involve any kind of applied intelligence or mental stimulation are the very same ones who are portraying themselves as being in a position of intellectual superiority.

& Ad Hominem are so effective at doing what? 

I prefer X because its more entertaining for me, it gives more immersion, and I enjoy it more. I don't play games to be intellectually challenged, but as escapism; a flight off this dreary rock into something else. A fine
thing, and one that demands certain conditions for it to work, DA2 will
for fill most of these, and so will these arguments; thus I ramble on, for pleasure.

I think you're probably missing the point, its not about personal preference, its about how the purists/conservatives pass themselves off as the intellectuals of the gaming world and anything that doesn't meet their standards is dumbing down and those who don't mind it are idiots.

[suprhomre]

It's better not knowing anything and just play and enjoy it? I didn't know much about Mass Effect for a few years ago and bought ME1. To my surprise I fell in love with it and I have bought every BIOWARE game after. Life is box a of chocolate.

[Night Prowler76]

Dragon age 2, half the game content of Origins, but yet it is the same price:> On the up side, there appears to be an endless amount of drooling fanboys that are happy and excited to get less of a game.

[randName]

Morroian wrote...

Duncan Anderson wrote...

I'm endlessly amused by the idea that the people who think inventory management and mini maxing involve any kind of applied intelligence or mental stimulation are the very same ones who are portraying themselves as being in a position of intellectual superiority.

This.

Its a trope nothing more and certainly not some fundamental part of role playing.

Nor is companions, even people.  [System Shock]

Nor is Dialogue. [System Shock]

Any kind of visual Customization . [PST]

Obviously its not needed, but scantly clad people fighting is immersion breaking (for me) and detracts from the experience.

DA:O , and DA2 is combat heavy, and without FF the combat is too immersion breaking, so I'll play on nightmare; and here tactical choices becomes important, and I don't want to use predefined characters, and I'm not patient, or smart enough to not exploit everything out of the gear; unless I kite everything, and everyone can do that.

DA2 looks to be a good game, this isn't a question of heaven or hell; simply a matter of what one prefers, as I'd prefer a volume based inventory, with harsh weight limits and that my coin had weight.

It has little to do with roleplaying, and more about making the world a harsher, more real place - where I'm better off having all but my tank in light armour, so that they can actually carry the loot to town for few coin.

I also would like to be able to kill merchants like in FO1.2 and thus easily get rich, so its not all about hardship and strife.

[TJSolo]

Morroian wrote...

randName wrote...

Duncan Anderson wrote...

I'm endlessly amused by the idea that the people who think inventory management and mini maxing involve any kind of applied intelligence or mental stimulation are the very same ones who are portraying themselves as being in a position of intellectual superiority.

& Ad Hominem are so effective at doing what? 

I prefer X because its more entertaining for me, it gives more immersion, and I enjoy it more. I don't play games to be intellectually challenged, but as escapism; a flight off this dreary rock into something else. A fine
thing, and one that demands certain conditions for it to work, DA2 will
for fill most of these, and so will these arguments; thus I ramble on, for pleasure.

I think you're probably missing the point, its not about personal preference, its about how the purists/conservatives pass themselves off as the intellectuals of the gaming world and anything that doesn't meet their standards is dumbing down and those who don't mind it are idiots.

Reading through the pros&cons on this it is clear their are intellectuals on both sides. Saying oneside of the people in this arguement are somehow not as smart as the people on the otherside just because of a differing of opinion is ad hominem.

[Night Prowler76]

Morroian wrote...

randName wrote...

Duncan Anderson wrote...

I'm endlessly amused by the idea that the people who think inventory management and mini maxing involve any kind of applied intelligence or mental stimulation are the very same ones who are portraying themselves as being in a position of intellectual superiority.

& Ad Hominem are so effective at doing what? 

I prefer X because its more entertaining for me, it gives more immersion, and I enjoy it more. I don't play games to be intellectually challenged, but as escapism; a flight off this dreary rock into something else. A fine
thing, and one that demands certain conditions for it to work, DA2 will
for fill most of these, and so will these arguments; thus I ramble on, for pleasure.

I think you're probably missing the point, its not about personal preference, its about how the purists/conservatives pass themselves off as the intellectuals of the gaming world and anything that doesn't meet their standards is dumbing down and those who don't mind it are idiots.

They just like having more options, can you blame them? I dont see anyone calling others idiots.

Modifié par Night Prowler76, 07 mars 2011 - 10:18 .

[General9999]

randName wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Duncan Anderson wrote...

I'm endlessly amused by the idea that the people who think inventory management and mini maxing involve any kind of applied intelligence or mental stimulation are the very same ones who are portraying themselves as being in a position of intellectual superiority.

This.

Its a trope nothing more and certainly not some fundamental part of role playing.

Nor is companions, even people.  [System Shock]

Nor is Dialogue. [System Shock]

Any kind of visual Customization . [PST]

Obviously its not needed, but scantly clad people fighting is immersion breaking (for me) and detracts from the experience.

DA:O , and DA2 is combat heavy, and without FF the combat is too immersion breaking, so I'll play on nightmare; and here tactical choices becomes important, and I don't want to use predefined characters, and I'm not patient, or smart enough to not exploit everything out of the gear; unless I kite everything, and everyone can do that.

DA2 looks to be a good game, this isn't a question of heaven or hell; simply a matter of what one prefers, as I'd prefer a volume based inventory, with harsh weight limits and that my coin had weight.

It has little to do with roleplaying, and more about making the world a harsher, more real place - where I'm better off having all but my tank in light armour, so that they can actually carry the loot to town for few coin.

I also would like to be able to kill merchants like in FO1.2 and thus easily get rich, so its not all about hardship and strife.

100% agree

[Bobs22]

In the next game we wont be able to even control our companions. After all it's not realistic. In a real battle they'll just do their own thing.

[TJSolo]

Obviously its not needed, but scantly clad people fighting is immersion breaking (for me) and detracts from the experience.

This ridiculous example keeps getting repeated.  With the exception of one part of two quests in DAO and the little bit in the Warrior origin that fighting in your undies is not a normal tactic that players put their characters into. All of those experiences were very immersive, actually.

Using that argument against being able to change other character's clothes does not make a lot of sense. If people being dressed in such a way ruined your immerision in your game then you simply had the option to not have your people in their undies fighting, most of the time. How someone else  optionally dresses or undresses the people in their game does not touch on your immersion. 

[abadomen]

AlanC9 wrote...

abadomen wrote...

 I prefer cutting the system to fiddling with it. 

Well...let's say there is something you like in DA2...pick anything...

If it is slightly flawed...would you rather they "FIX" that flaw...or get rid of it?

For example...one flaw some are noticing about DA2 is the supposed "cookie-cutter" mission/locations.

Should they fix this by adding more varied locations...or cut out sidequests all together and focus on the mainquest?

It depends on whether I think the particular feature is worth having in the first place, of course.

Without knowing more about the pacing and so forth of the main quest in DA2, I don't know if sidequests are worth having in the game. I can say that I would have preferred that about half of the ME1 sidequests be cut.

Would you not rather have had the same amount of sidequests...albeit...better?

I suppose I can understand with wanting a game out quickly. If they hadn't cut some things then we wouldn't be getting the second games so close after release...

Look at Skyrim...coming out almost half a decade after the last game.

[randName]

Morroian wrote...

randName wrote...

Duncan Anderson wrote...

I'm endlessly amused by the idea that the people who think inventory management and mini maxing involve any kind of applied intelligence or mental stimulation are the very same ones who are portraying themselves as being in a position of intellectual superiority.

& Ad Hominem are so effective at doing what? 

I prefer X because its more entertaining for me, it gives more immersion, and I enjoy it more. I don't play games to be intellectually challenged, but as escapism; a flight off this dreary rock into something else. A fine
thing, and one that demands certain conditions for it to work, DA2 will
for fill most of these, and so will these arguments; thus I ramble on, for pleasure.

I think you're probably missing the point, its not about personal preference, its about how the purists/conservatives pass themselves off as the intellectuals of the gaming world and anything that doesn't meet their standards is dumbing down and those who don't mind it are idiots.

He attacks people that says its dumbed down, and now so do you; I say its dumbed down, and that is what I replied to.

I'm not saying the game will be less tactical, in fact the abilities seems to give more options for tactical choices; and I still say that removing the option to change armour or gear on a character to better suit them for a certain type of  combat style, or situation, is in fact dumbing it down.

& they are not essential, or DA2 could be a better game than DA:O, and I believe it will be, like I preferred ME2 over ME1, but found some choices regretful.

And he, and you by agreeing with him, now claim that. 1. This is false, removing this option does not in any way remove any sort of intellectual stimulation,. 2. That we claim to be "in a position of intellectual superiority" 3. and that this is amusingly false.

At least I agree with 3.

So I do not claim to be an intellectual, nor very bright - at best I'm half creative due to a whimsical but decent  memory that is often wrong, but makes decent metaphors of a jumbled mess. So I can work in design, outside that I'm socially and intellectually challenged, something I'll openly admit.

& even then I see that it was a weak ad Hominem argument.

Modifié par randName, 07 mars 2011 - 10:34 .

[Sylvianus]

In the next game we wont be able to even control our companions. After all it's not realistic. In a real battle they'll just do their own thing.

My god, don't say such terrible things. I'll have nightmares tonight.
But it comes at such a critical situation, a minimal management with our companions would make me really laugh actually.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 07 mars 2011 - 10:37 .