1286 réponses à ce sujet

[Moaradin]

People play Dragon Age on the consoles?

[Felene]

Chris Priestly wrote...

OK: Here is the story.

Auto-attack option for consoles was added in to the games late in the development cycle after the initial certification build was sent. The auto-attack functionality was sent to be added to the game for testing and approval. This was why staff said it was in game.

Due to an error during mastering, the auto-attack file was omitted during manufacture.

We apologize for this. It was meant to be in game, but it is not currently in the console versions. We are working on how best to distribute this to console users. When we have information, we will let everyone know.

Reminds me the 2 gigs of zero incident when ME2-Shadow Broker release on PC.

[mesmerizedish]

TJPags wrote...

Well, you say it must be a false assertion, then you explain that it is, in fact, a false assertion.

Let me say this:  If you and I are negotiating over something, and I tell you something is true, then find out it is not true, yet never correct the impession I gave until AFTER we sign the contract, thus making it too late for you to back out, I have, in fact and in law, lied.

It's catorgorized as a lie, same as if I told it to you right before you signed.

Not by Sylvius's definition. Whether it's "as bad" as lying is irrelevant to this particular discussion. I think it is as bad, but it's still not a lie. And nothing you've said goes toward proving that withholding information involves making a "false assertion." This is because that's objectively false. You can't assert anything with silence.

As for whether they knew and when, are you really going to argue that nobody at Bioware knew this until today?  Really?

I don't think anyone thinks that.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 07 mars 2011 - 10:56 .

[Cuthlan]

Cless Godhard wrote...

WOW.... just WOW.

This kinda explains, why they locked all those auto-attack threads and avoid the question in the live-stream.

My guess is that the reason we haven't had an answer is that in the last week since this came up they've been scrambling to verify it then deciding how to break it to us.

I don't feel lied to, because they thought what they were telling us was true. I AM extremely disappointed, though.

Still... I've been mashing buttons since I first played Mario Bros and Pizza Hut when I was a little kid. It's not gonna ruin the game for me (I'm actually looking forward to it.)

Modifié par Cuthlan, 07 mars 2011 - 10:56 .

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I disagree.  I insist that a lie must be a false assertion.

A technical difference that is important. But in effect the same thing, as the results rarely differ. Important distinctions, all.

[Fame_Spear]

Chris Priestly wrote...

OK: Here is the story.

Auto-attack option for consoles was added in to the games late in the development cycle after the initial certification build was sent. The auto-attack functionality was sent to be added to the game for testing and approval. This was why staff said it was in game.

Due to an error during mastering, the auto-attack file was omitted during manufacture.

We apologize for this. It was meant to be in game, but it is not currently in the console versions. We are working on how best to distribute this to console users. When we have information, we will let everyone know.

This is extremely disappointing. Having played the demo on Xbox, one of the biggest concerns I had was the lack of an auto-attack feature. I excused it in the demo because first, we were warned that the demo didn't represent the final product, and second we were assured repeatedly that this feature was included in the final release.

To be skeptical of these claims when the truth comes to light less than 12 hours before the game is released is certainly reasonable. However, I'm more concerned about the best path forward from here. Trusting in Bioware's claims, I pre-ordered the Signature Edition and was eagerly anticipating playing the game immediately upon release. Simply put, I would prefer not to play the game without the auto-attack feature. Repeatedly pressing the A-button in a 1-hour demo, is one thing, but doing so for 60+ hours is another thing altogether, and in my few, completely unreasonable.

So, Chris, if you could please answer this question, I would greatly appreciate it. Though I will be disappointed, I would not mind waiting to play for a week or so, knowing that a patch is forthcoming. I'd rather have the best possible experience a week later, than a poor experience tomorrow. For those that feel the way I do, can you please provide a timeframe for when this feature will be patched in?

[Cuthlan]

Marionetten wrote...

kyles3 wrote...

For months upon months they have. They've given me no indication that they're the sort of people who screw their consumers over, so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Don't you realize that they just screwed their consumers over?

But was it intentional?

I don't know.

I'm disappointed that this happened. We'll see just how much cause for being upset there is based on how long it takes them to get this fixed and patched.

If it isn't done as top priority (behind any significant widespread game-breaking bugs, maybe), then I will be pretty upset.

[Taleroth]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

You can't assert anything with silence.

Except they weren't silent.  It had been said that the feature would be included.

I'm with you that it was likely an honest mistake.  Do not attribute to malice what can be equally explained by incompetence.

But if they knew and did not tell their audience, it's the same as lying.

[Bobad]

INCOMPETENT!

[Sylvius the Mad]

TJPags wrote...

Well, you say it must be a false assertion, then you explain that it is, in fact, a false assertion.

Right.

I was responding to the claim that withhold truth is lying, and I wholly disagree with that.

Let me say this:  If you and I are negotiating over something, and I tell you something is true, then find out it is not true, yet never correct the impession I gave until AFTER we sign the contract, thus making it too late for you to back out, I have, in fact and in law, lied.

What the law says has no bearing on what's actually true.

I can think of three obvious ways to interpret the scenario you just described, and two of them would call that lying (the third wouldn't because the false asssertion wasn't made with the intent to deceive).

As for whether they knew and when, are you really going to argue that nobody at Bioware knew this until today?  Really?

Of course not.  I have no idea what they knew.  And even if they did just learn it, I suspect they had 8 guys working all night crafting Chris's little speech there.  So they would have known it yesterday.

But, again, I'm not claiming that they just learned this.  I'm claiming that the believe that they've known this for weeks is unjustified.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 07 mars 2011 - 10:59 .

[djackson75]

Moaradin wrote...

People play Dragon Age on the consoles?

3.68 million according to VGChartz... so yeah man.

[ironcreed2]

So auto attack is not in the console versions after all? I thought it was confirmed that it was? Oh well, I also love action games, so I'll get used to it. It should not be so bad after I have enough skills.

Modifié par ironcreed2, 07 mars 2011 - 11:03 .

[Torowa]

Cuthlan wrote...
behind any significant widespread game-breaking bugs

If there are significant widespread game-breaking bugs then I don't think that's going to make me feel better about not having auto attack.

[-Zorph-]

TJPags wrote...

-Zorph- wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Shadesofsiknas wrote...

People who swallow any story they are told are said to be able to swallow whole bricks.

I don't see how that would be applicable here, though, as the possibiliy I outlined isn't something BioWare has claimed (as far as I know).

djackson75 wrote...

Someone really needs to follow up on this as ask them how long they've known this issue exists.. I would LOVE to hear the answer to that.

Does it matter? At this point you can't change the timing of the announcement.

It does matter.. I'm calling into question their business practices and integrity.. It's not even about pressing A repeatedly and never was for me.. It was about Bioware knowing about an issue and hiding the information from the public in an effort to not negatively effect sales.

They just had a fracking web-chat saturday where the question was asked during the chat, but completely side stepped and passed by during the answer portion.... come on now...

+1
This should have been mentioned earlier. They have been sidestepping it every time it comes up for a while. Withholding info is almost as bad as lying

Witholding IS lying.  Not almost.  Exact.

Oh ok I get it, so...

Wanting a baby IS having a baby. Not almost. Exact. The thought instantly spawns an infant.
or...
Being big IS being strong. Not almost. Exact. The bigger you are the stronger you are! Who cares if it's all fat, amirite?

*seriousness engaged* Ok so on a more serious note, withholding information is bad and shouldn't be done. But it is NOT the same as lying. It can't be a lie, because it hasn't even been said.  Obviously the context of the withholding could make it just as bad as lying, but they are not the same.

I'll ignore your hyperbole and concentrate on the serious part of your post:

Many courts of law, judges, and legal scholars would disagree with you.

True. But unfortunately this is not a court of law or law school of any kind. Hate to break it to you.





Wait... you mean the courts in our broken court system? What a great argument you made with that...

[mesmerizedish]

Taleroth wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

You can't assert anything with silence.

Except they weren't silent.  It had been said that the feature would be included.

Indeed. I believe the issue, though, was if they knew it was absent when they said it was present. If so, that's a lie. If not, then (whoever) said that not correcting the misconception is lying. Not "the same as lying," or even "as bad as lying," but "lying" full stop. It's not.

I'm with you that it was likely an honest mistake.  Do not attribute to malice what can be equally explained by incompetence.

But if they knew and did not tell their audience, it's the same as lying.

I don't know about "the same as," but certainly "as bad as." It's just semantics. Either way, it's inexcusable.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 07 mars 2011 - 11:03 .

[TJPags]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Well, you say it must be a false assertion, then you explain that it is, in fact, a false assertion.

Right.

I was responding to the claim that withhold truth is lying, and I wholly disagree with that.

Let me say this:  If you and I are negotiating over something, and I tell you something is true, then find out it is not true, yet never correct the impession I gave until AFTER we sign the contract, thus making it too late for you to back out, I have, in fact and in law, lied.

What the law says has no bearing on what's actually true.

I can think of three obvious ways to interpret the scenario you just described, and two of them would call that lying (the third wouldn't because the false asssertion wasn't made with the intent to deceive).

As for whether they knew and when, are you really going to argue that nobody at Bioware knew this until today?  Really?

Of course not.  I have no idea what they knew.  And even if they did just learn it, I suspect they had 8 guys working all night crafting Chris's little speech there.  So they would have known it yesterday.

But, again, I'm not claiming that they just learned this.  I'm claiming that the believe that they've known this for weeks is unjustified.

Oh, I'll agree about the malice aspect of what you said.  I do not think this was intentional, or done with malice.  I think what happened is about what Chris told us = they meant to put it in, and it didn't get put in.

However, I'll respectfully disagree with the rest, although I think we're arguing semantics.  Would you agree it's misleading?

[88mphSlayer]

TJPags wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

it would've made sense to provide the option from the start before going gold, but adding stuff after going gold usually means a day 1+ patch so it not being there day 1 is kind of expected

nobody wants to have to reprint and reship a retail game with a week+ delay... (little big planet anybody?)

Well, since they knew it pretty much from when the game went gold, what, 3 weeks ago, why isn't it already set up to go as a Day 1 patch?  Instead, they're looking into it.

dunno maybe they need to go through Sony and Microsoft's verification process?

[djackson75]

You guys are arguing over semantics and the true definition of a lie.. Let me do this on a normal level:

1. They said the feature was in the game a month plus ago
2. The game went gold over 3 weeks ago, with the feature not in the game
3. They said nothing
4. Streams (legit or not, doesn't matter) began popping up online with the feature not in the game
5. Questions were asked in chats and on message boards about the feature
6. The message board posts were locked and/or deleted, the chat questions were ignored
7. Less than 12 hours before the game is released, a singular statement is made on the official message board, and up to this moment, nowhere else.

-------

Shady as fudge...

[Shockwave Pulsar]

ironcreed2 wrote...

So auto attack is not in the console versions after all? I thought it was confirmed that it was? Oh well, I also love action games, so I'll get used to it. It is just I played Origins with the auto attack and was kind of hoping to roll that way again.

Action games have different button combinations for different types of attacks / combos with different damage, speed, range, etc, in that case pressing buttons all the time is basic gameplay, there is a point to it.
Dragon Age is very different : the exact same button, the exact same attack animation, the exact same damage, it's pointless. It also means that you will be unintentionally switching between enemies all the time.

Modifié par Balthamoss, 07 mars 2011 - 11:06 .

[Mangelina Jolie]

ironcreed2 wrote...

So auto attack is not in the console versions after all? I thought it was confirmed that it was? Oh well, I also love action games, so I'll get used to it. It should not be so bad after I have enough skills.

It was actually confirmed that it wasn't.

Modifié par Mangelina Jolie, 07 mars 2011 - 11:10 .

[Loremazd]

I dont think words can fix anything anyway. At this point what you believe is what you believe, whether its what they said or what you think the real case is is not going to change, ever.

In any case, the auto attack will be in. I imagine because of the big stink this has raised, it'll likely be fast, as well.

[ironcreed2]

They should have just came right out and said it from the get-go. It would have saved them the blowback right now. I will still enjoy the hell out of the game, so it does not really concern me. I just think devs need to be open and honest to the individuals who are buying their product. Just be honest, people will still buy your game... and will respect you a hell of a lot more in the end as well.

[Mangelina Jolie]

Loremazd wrote...

I dont think words can fix anything anyway. At this point what you believe is what you believe, whether its what they said or what you think the real case is is not going to change, ever.

In any case, the auto attack will be in. I imagine because of the big stink this has raised, it'll likely be fast, as well.

"Fast" is dependant on the certification process.  And those two words have absolutely nothing in common, let me tell you.

[Torowa]

Balthamoss wrote...

ironcreed2 wrote...

So auto attack is not in the console versions after all? I thought it was confirmed that it was? Oh well, I also love action games, so I'll get used to it. It is just I played Origins with the auto attack and was kind of hoping to roll that way again.

Action games have different button combinations for different types of attacks / combos with different damage, speed, range, etc, in that case pressing buttons all the time is basic gameplay, there is a point to it.
Dragon Age is very different : the exact same button, the exact same attack animation, the exact same damage, it's pointless.

Or as a friend of mine said, "Press A to win." So I spent time talking him up on how auto-attack would be in the game.

It also means that you will be unintentionally switching between enemies all the time.

Exactly.

This fiasco is perfectly timed with David Jaffe's (God of War, Twisted Metal) comments from GDC: 

"When I first started, when the disc was shipped it was our last chance
[to get rid of bugs] off the bat," Jaffe recalled. "If developers could
make it work then, then today they can at least make sure our games
don't have to be updated the first week they hit shelves."

[TJPags]

88mphSlayer wrote...

TJPags wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

it would've made sense to provide the option from the start before going gold, but adding stuff after going gold usually means a day 1+ patch so it not being there day 1 is kind of expected

nobody wants to have to reprint and reship a retail game with a week+ delay... (little big planet anybody?)

Well, since they knew it pretty much from when the game went gold, what, 3 weeks ago, why isn't it already set up to go as a Day 1 patch?  Instead, they're looking into it.

dunno maybe they need to go through Sony and Microsoft's verification process?

Maybe they could have started that 3 weeks ago?

djackson75 wrote...

You guys are arguing over semantics and the true definition of a lie.. Let me do this on a normal level:

1. They said the feature was in the game a month plus ago
2. The game went gold over 3 weeks ago, with the feature not in the game
3. They said nothing
4. Streams (legit or not, doesn't matter) began popping up online with the feature not in the game
5. Questions were asked in chats and on message boards about the feature
6. The message board posts were locked and/or deleted, the chat questions were ignored
7. Less than 12 hours before the game is released, a singular statement is made on the official message board, and up to this moment, nowhere else.

-------

Shady as fudge...

Exactly.

Whether anyone wants to agree it's a lie is irrelevant to me.