188 réponses à ce sujet

[Johnsen1972]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Yeah but still it was fun to grind it, not saying that I like to do this again, but item management for companions is a huge fun part in RPG's

For some people. For others, it's a burden. And then there's the issue of you just not getting enough loot to keep eight to ten companions well-equipped. The more I think about this change, the more I like it.

The whole Wow Community is build up because of item hunting for and YOUR companions. (and mostly only because of items ... lol)
Im just saying that item management is a huge and important part in RPG's

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 08 mars 2011 - 01:04 .

[Alodar]

Planscape Torment did not allow you to change the look of your companions.
Jade Empire did not allow you to change the look of your companions.
Mass Effect 2 barely allowed you to change the look of your companions.


Did that make any of the above RPGs less or more of an RPG?
Did it lessen your enjoyment of them that you couldn't play dressup with the companions?
Personally I like it because that means most of what I pick up will be for me.


Alodar

[Xewaka]

Alodar wrote...
Planscape Torment did not allow you to change the look of your companions.
Jade Empire did not allow you to change the look of your companions.
Mass Effect 2 barely allowed you to change the look of your companions.
Did that make any of the above RPGs less or more of an RPG?
Did it lessen your enjoyment of them that you couldn't play dressup with the companions?
Personally I like it because that means most of what I pick up will be for me.
Alodar

Mechanically, Mass Effect 2 is a shooter. And Jade Empire didn't allow you to change the looks of your main character once chosen at creation, either. And PS:T had 3 total outfits for the Nameless one, if I'm not mistaken.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
That's actually not at all a valid
point. Developers want you to experience the game a certain way. People
like Sylvius don't care about developer intent, but developers don't
care about people like Sylvius. If BioWare thought their players spent
too much time fiddling with companion inventory and not enough time
actually playing, then BioWare are under no obligation to keep that
option just because "how they play is their business."

Are
you saying that developers would purposefully take the decision to
alienate potential customers what could be integrated into their
intended vision without need of real concessions? They have made a
product. How I decide to enjoy it is my decision as a customer, not
theirs. They can certainly facilitate their intended experience above
others, but I have a hard time believing they would purposefully bar
certain people for enjoying their craft.
Besides, as Mike said "Go ahead! It is your game, after all."

Modifié par Xewaka, 08 mars 2011 - 12:52 .

[mesmerizedish]

DadeLeviathan wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Yeah but still it was fun to grind it, not saying that I like to do this again, but item management for companions is a huge fun part in RPG's

For some people. For others, it's a burden. And then there's the issue of you just not getting enough loot to keep eight to ten companions well-equipped. The more I think about this change, the more I like it.

I spent so much gold equipping my companions in DAO and the old Infinity Engine games... I could have bought a small country. Several small countries.

Sadly, the breadth of loot in Origins didn't come anywhere near that of the Baldur's Gate series. One of my biggest complaints was boring loot. I'm not even talking about useless trash. I like trash items. They provide character. There just weren't any fun magic items to speak of, save a few (like the Arcane Warrior sword near the Urn of Sacred Ashes).

[DadeLeviathan]

Alodar wrote...

Planscape Torment did not allow you to change the look of your companions.

I'm actually noticing a lot of similarities between DA2 and PS:T, with the exception of the core game mechanic (Hawke isn't an immortal). I doubt it will be as well written or well designed (sorry Dave and Mike), but still the similarities make me happy. Since PS:T is one of the best RPGs ever made. Or one of the best RPG novels ever made if you listen to some people.

[Dragoonlordz]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Well wrote...

yogolol wrote...

People waste too much time looking for armor for their 6 companions.

Actually it is their time and their money that bought the game.So how they play is their business.Thanks for caring though.

That's actually not at all a valid point. Developers want you to experience the game a certain way. People like Sylvius don't care about developer intent, but developers don't care about people like Sylvius. If BioWare thought their players spent too much time fiddling with companion inventory and not enough time actually playing, then BioWare are under no obligation to keep that option just because "how they play is their business."

Incase you didn't realise while fiddling that inventory your still actually "playing" the game. Only your playing it the way you want, it neither detracts from the story the developers wish to make or what the end result will be, it merely increases the time taken to reach the end and most of us like value for money given that they don't releases a new game in the series every couple weeks we desire something to do within the game that extends it's shelf life.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 mars 2011 - 12:53 .

[mesmerizedish]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Yeah but still it was fun to grind it, not saying that I like to do this again, but item management for companions is a huge fun part in RPG's

For some people. For others, it's a burden. And then there's the issue of you just not getting enough loot to keep eight to ten companions well-equipped. The more I think about this change, the more I like it.

The whole Wow Community is build up because of item hunting. (and mostly only because of item ... lol)
Im just saying that item management is a huge and important part in RPG's

Again, for a single character. I love it. I love the feeling of progression that comes from constantly upgrading my character's gear. What I'm less interested in doing it for every character. I get that some people don't mind. You seem to be one of them. That's a very valid view. I'm just as happy to limit it to my own character.

[Luvinn]

I for one thought Morrigan looked horrible with a robe/helm on. I used to leave her armor on default until i got the one from Flemeth's chest

[mesmerizedish]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Incase you didn't realise while fiddling that inventory your still actually "playing" the game. Only your playing it the way you want, it neither detracts from the story the developers wish to make or what the end result will be, it merely increases the time taken to reach the end and most of us like value for money given that they don't releases a new game in the series every couple weeks we desire something to do within the game that extends it's shelf life. 

I was almost 100% certain that someone would call me out on implying that fiddling with the inventory wasn't playing. Here's the thing. The devs want you to play a certain way, so they're going to design the game with that in mind. If that means that you can no longer play the way you want to play, sucks to be you. Sorry.

[DadeLeviathan]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

DadeLeviathan wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Yeah but still it was fun to grind it, not saying that I like to do this again, but item management for companions is a huge fun part in RPG's

For some people. For others, it's a burden. And then there's the issue of you just not getting enough loot to keep eight to ten companions well-equipped. The more I think about this change, the more I like it.

I spent so much gold equipping my companions in DAO and the old Infinity Engine games... I could have bought a small country. Several small countries.

Sadly, the breadth of loot in Origins didn't come anywhere near that of the Baldur's Gate series. One of my biggest complaints was boring loot. I'm not even talking about useless trash. I like trash items. They provide character. There just weren't any fun magic items to speak of, save a few (like the Arcane Warrior sword near the Urn of Sacred Ashes).

I was severely dissapointed when there was no item similar to Lilacor in Origins.

[DA Trap Star]

Taleroth wrote...

Or maybe it's just because they want companions to have a unique look instead of just being taller or shorter suits of barely recolored armor.

Companions are ok to have a unique look, but they are the only idiots in battle without a helmet. It loosks retarded. Everybody else in Kirlwall wears a helmet in battle but you're characters battle with their heads exposed?

Its ok having a unique look, I'm all for that. But they should be properly dressed for battle, not looking like they are dressed in a Anime.

[mesmerizedish]

DadeLeviathan wrote...

I was severely dissapointed when there was no item similar to Lilacor in Origins.

Lilarcor, Carsomyr, the Equalizer, Celestial Fury, the Flail of the Ages... and that's just a few of the weapons! So many amazing items

[Dragoonlordz]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Incase you didn't realise while fiddling that inventory your still actually "playing" the game. Only your playing it the way you want, it neither detracts from the story the developers wish to make or what the end result will be, it merely increases the time taken to reach the end and most of us like value for money given that they don't releases a new game in the series every couple weeks we desire something to do within the game that extends it's shelf life. 

I was almost 100% certain that someone would call me out on implying that fiddling with the inventory wasn't playing. Here's the thing. The devs want you to play a certain way, so they're going to design the game with that in mind. If that means that you can no longer play the way you want to play, sucks to be you. Sorry.

Yes I do get hissy when they remove a feature from a game which was present in the first one which got me even interested in buying the second whether this is inventory/loot/equipment choices or auto attack feature.

If they change too much that people liked from the first in the series (which is what inspired so many people ordered DA2 in the first place) and the series progress into something else pretty much, it may end up sucks to be them.

[Daidoji Tangen]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Is it because they want to create companion armor themself and sell it as DLC like they did in ME2?

I understand that this really gives you lots of money since making armor just takes a few hours and you can sell it several million times.

Is that the reason why the toolset isnt released yet? You want to sell armor piece by piece?

Im bit confused.

Because most people would rather buy DLC costume packs or not buy them rather than constantly looking at inventory to see if it was better than what they got from the last darkspawn (it wasn't).

And please don't give "it takes away from our choice" argument because a:

1) Most of the armor looked bland and uninteresting. Some of the warrior armor looked good, but Rogue and Mage armor sucked. Was anyone really excited about taking Morrigan out of her Swamp Witch look for regular mage look based solely on looks?

2) The choice is laughable at best. The vast majority of people simply choose the best armor (unless it gives a unique look and the new way simply keeps that). So, it's not a choice for most people as it is fiddling around with something that takes you out of the game constantly to find stat increases.

3) ME2 was a vast improvement over ME. I get two unique costumes (3 if there is a DLC) rather than the same suit with color variations. Nice.

[abat223]

Item drop grinding is only fun if there's a billion 1 hit kill mobs to obliterate again and again..
Kills take way too long in dragon age to item find if it it were even possible

[mesmerizedish]

Xewaka wrote...

Are you saying that developers would purposefully take the decision to alienate potential customers what could be integrated into their intended vision without need of real concessions? They have made a product. How I decide to enjoy it is my decision as a customer, not theirs. They can certainly facilitate their intended experience above others, but I have a hard time believing they would purposefully bar certain people for enjoying their craft. Besides, as Mike said "Go ahead! It is your game, after all."

I'm saying that there are limits to the freedom the devs are willing to offer you. They have these goals that can be achieved in these ways. Sometimes, that means restricting what you can do. They want companions to be unique characters, visually and otherwise. They can't invest the time to model and texture a nice assortment of outfits for each character. So, model one and remove the ability to change companion armor. That's a very reasonable solution to the problem they faced.

[Sylvianus]

2)

The choice is laughable at best. The vast majority of people simply choose the best armor (unless it gives a unique look and the new way simply keeps that). So, it's not a choice for most people as it is fiddling around with something that takes you out of the game constantly to find stat increases.

The best armor are most beautiful,  that's normal. T___T

Between armor equivalent, you will take the more aesthetic, is what I did as a new player rpg. Dragon Age was my first game

This is hilarious, it's especially not wear armor in battle, that's what most sucks i think lol.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 08 mars 2011 - 01:02 .

[mesmerizedish]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Yes I do get hissy when they remove a feature from a game which was present in the first one which got me even interested in buying the second whether this is inventory/loot/equipment choices or auto attack feature.

If they change too much that people liked from the first in the series (which is what inspired so many people ordered DA2 in the first place) and the series progress into something else pretty much, it may end up sucks to be them.

I don't think that many people are going to be that disappointed at only being able to fully outfit one character instead of ten. There's a very large population of people, most of whom don't frequent these forums, who will be glad that to feel that they've been liberated from the need to worry about keeping their companions up-to-date.

As I said, I'm not strongly in favor of either direction. But I'm just as happy to have to equip only one character as I am to be able to equip all of them. You disagree (obviously ), but I think the unfortunate fact is that people like you don't give BioWare enough money. I'm not saying that BioWare are selling out, and dumbing it down for the casuals. What I'm saying is that BioWare have to make the game attractive to that audience in order to sustain themselves as a studio.

[Razcalking1978]

I vastly prefer the new system. I hated having to replace flavorful, character-based companion armor with generic-looking stuff just because the stats were better.

[mesmerizedish]

Razcalking1978 wrote...

I vastly prefer the new system. I hated having to replace flavorful, character-based companion armor with generic-looking stuff just because the stats were better.

Well. Morrigan was the only companion who really had flavorful clothing

[SirJoeofthePub]

Welcome to RPG's, the new shovelware.

I love how cut/ toned down content is twisted into "Features" and lauded as such by the player base.

"I can't customize my characters? Awesome!" Well, just cause you can don't mean you HAVE to. The way the game is setup I can see the chars changing gear after you cut to years later, but those that want to should still be able to manage their chars gear.

"I can run through tunnels? Awesome! Exploring s such a waste of time!" It's fine in a single player FPS, but in a RPG, exploring the environment is a big part of actually "playing" the game. Again, just because you can does not mean you HAVE to in most cases.

"I can play this game through in 15 hours or less? Awesome! Long games are such a waste of time!" Well to me, short RPG's are rather a waste of money.

Kinda makes me wonder why peeps that think this will be one of the most awesome RPG's they ever played are even interested in playing RPG's in the first place.

DA 2 is not an RPG in my eyes, it's some sort of hybrid, i'll call it a FTS "Fantasy Tactical Shooter"

On the same token, not knocking the FTS idea, sounds interesting, but might work better as a stand alone product, not turning an already existing game franchise from one thing to something completely different.

[Le Diable]

Alodar wrote...

Planscape Torment did not allow you to change the look of your companions.
Jade Empire did not allow you to change the look of your companions.
Mass Effect 2 barely allowed you to change the look of your companions.


Did that make any of the above RPGs less or more of an RPG?
Did it lessen your enjoyment of them that you couldn't play dressup with the companions?
Personally I like it because that means most of what I pick up will be for me.


Alodar

I dont know about Jade Empire
But I dont quite understand this, I could still use the inventory space in Torment and change their gear except for some certain gear like zerthimon circle or the karach, i have even changed Morte's teeth

Mass effect 2 though did not have armor changes for the companions but i could choose their gun setup
I am just wondering how would i change a weapon for my companion in DA2?

[Xewaka]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
I'm saying that there are limits to the freedom the devs are willing to offer you. They have these goals that can be achieved in these ways. Sometimes, that means restricting what you can do. They want companions to be unique characters, visually and otherwise. They can't invest the time to model and texture a nice assortment of outfits for each character. So, model one and remove the ability to change companion armor. That's a very reasonable solution to the problem they faced.

Requiring unique, inmutable outfits is a crutch rather than a boon for companion characterization. Mechanical characterization, well done mechanical characterization, comes for tradeoffs and additions, not limitations. You could be generous and call unique outfits a tradeoff for a loss of visual and gameplay customization of characters. I do not believe the tradeoff was worth it.

Modifié par Xewaka, 08 mars 2011 - 01:09 .

[mesmerizedish]

SirJoeofthePub wrote...

"I can play this game through in 15 hours or less? Awesome! Long games are such a waste of time!" Well to me, short RPG's are rather a waste of money.

And what RPGs have you played in the past, oh... decade?... that you honestly can't complete in 15 hours?

[Melra]

I don't personally care why they did it. All I care for is, that my companions finally look neat more often, than not. If it means DLCs for extra clothing for my companions, then so be it.

As long as they don't come up with things like the armor for Miranda in ME2, I'll be all up for it.