87 réponses à ce sujet

[Commander Waha]

jbg927 wrote...
 And a shotgun has a much different feel than that of an ar or handgun the way you hold each weapon and the amount of kick from each varies greatly!

Adjusting for this is a matter of half an hour, not 6+ ingame hours. 

[N7Infernox]

jbg927 wrote...

Give me the option to equip my squadmates with any armor I choose again and I'll be happy! And a shotgun has a much different feel than that of an ar or handgun the way you hold each weapon and the amount of kick from each varies greatly!

Same here. Don't worry, Bioware's been listening to the fans.

[Lunatic LK47]

Commander Waha wrote...

1: Speaking as someone who has handled a fair number of guns in his time, I can tell you the following. If you can hit a target at 100 yards with an assault rifle, you can damn well do it with a shotgun, or a pistol. Aiming is aiming, and once you get used to the weight of the weapon, which takes 5-10 minutes and not 6 hours of gameplay, you are equally accurate with each weapon to the degree that weapon allows. Gun stats are just an extra stat to put points in. Make work, if you will. 

Considering that Shepard is a *SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIVE* the weapons skills should not have existed period, and I agree with you on that regard. The extensive amount of training would have made such skills negligible. Considering the amount of operations Spec-Ops goes through, they are going to be put through hostage rescue scenarios, and weapon accuracy is *MANDATORY*. Watch any documentaries covering British S.A.S. and U.S. Navy SEAL operatives, and one of their training regimens is weapon control.

*EDIT*: Link to Special Operations operatives' interview for Medal of Honor just to get a glimpse of what their world is like:

www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2010/06/tier-1-interview-series

Modifié par Lunatic LK47, 08 mars 2011 - 02:02 .

[Commander Waha]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Commander Waha wrote...

1: Speaking as someone who has handled a fair number of guns in his time, I can tell you the following. If you can hit a target at 100 yards with an assault rifle, you can damn well do it with a shotgun, or a pistol. Aiming is aiming, and once you get used to the weight of the weapon, which takes 5-10 minutes and not 6 hours of gameplay, you are equally accurate with each weapon to the degree that weapon allows. Gun stats are just an extra stat to put points in. Make work, if you will. 

Considering that Shepard is a *SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIVE* the weapons should not have existed period, and I agree with you on that regard. The extensive amount of training would have made such skills negligent. Considering the amount of operations Spec-Ops goes through, they are going to be put through hostage rescue scenarios, and weapon accuracy is *MANDATORY*. Watch any British S.A.S. and U.S. Navy SEAL operatives, and one of their training regimens is weapon control.

I never even considered that angle. Thank you.

[Lunatic LK47]

Commander Waha wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Commander Waha wrote...

1: Speaking as someone who has handled a fair number of guns in his time, I can tell you the following. If you can hit a target at 100 yards with an assault rifle, you can damn well do it with a shotgun, or a pistol. Aiming is aiming, and once you get used to the weight of the weapon, which takes 5-10 minutes and not 6 hours of gameplay, you are equally accurate with each weapon to the degree that weapon allows. Gun stats are just an extra stat to put points in. Make work, if you will. 

Considering that Shepard is a *SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIVE* the weapons should not have existed period, and I agree with you on that regard. The extensive amount of training would have made such skills negligent. Considering the amount of operations Spec-Ops goes through, they are going to be put through hostage rescue scenarios, and weapon accuracy is *MANDATORY*. Watch any British S.A.S. and U.S. Navy SEAL operatives, and one of their training regimens is weapon control.

I never even considered that angle. Thank you.

Just to correct my last post, I meant watch any documentaries covering those Special Forces group. Don't know how that word slipped from my mind. You're welcome though. 

[N7Infernox]

http://social.biowar...3/index/5351821
The thread's locked, but I think you guys might wanna see it.

Also:
http://social.biowar...index/4632282/1

Modifié par N7Infernox, 08 mars 2011 - 01:59 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

I agree that ME2 was better than ME1.

What I want is A LOT more customization!!
Weapon Mods, More Armor, More Weapons, Squadmate customization, etc... that's the only thing I felt was lacking in ME2.

[The Spamming Troll]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Commander Waha wrote...

1: Speaking as someone who has handled a fair number of guns in his time, I can tell you the following. If you can hit a target at 100 yards with an assault rifle, you can damn well do it with a shotgun, or a pistol. Aiming is aiming, and once you get used to the weight of the weapon, which takes 5-10 minutes and not 6 hours of gameplay, you are equally accurate with each weapon to the degree that weapon allows. Gun stats are just an extra stat to put points in. Make work, if you will. 

Considering that Shepard is a *SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIVE* the weapons skills should not have existed period, and I agree with you on that regard. The extensive amount of training would have made such skills negligible. Considering the amount of operations Spec-Ops goes through, they are going to be put through hostage rescue scenarios, and weapon accuracy is *MANDATORY*. Watch any documentaries covering British S.A.S. and U.S. Navy SEAL operatives, and one of their training regimens is weapon control.

*EDIT*: Link to Special Operations operatives' interview for Medal of Honor just to get a glimpse of what their world is like:

www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2010/06/tier-1-interview-series

but your ok with sheaprd only becoming an infiltrator at the start of ME1? leveling in immunity or electronics makes sense, but leveling in weapons doesnt?

comparing ME1 and ME2 in terms of advanceing skills, ME2 simply doesnt need it. powers could have been introduced imeditaly and each one could have been prehotkeyed. kindof like the way infamouse handled abilities. ME1 needs the players thought in where to put each point. i say this alot, but really, why do you think there is rarely a topic on build discusion? becasue everyone builds their character in the exact same way. ME2s leveling system could even be nonexistant and it wouldnt change any classes potential one bit.

[Gatt9]

Commander Waha wrote...

jbg927 wrote...
 And a shotgun has a much different feel than that of an ar or handgun the way you hold each weapon and the amount of kick from each varies greatly!

Adjusting for this is a matter of half an hour, not 6+ ingame hours. 

Not at all.  Trying to use a weapon effectively in a combat situation with significantly different ranges and spread is very different from standing stationary trying to hit a stationary target at a specified distance.

Adjusting for this is a matter of days,  weeks,  months,  or even years depending on the person.

Considering that Shepard is a *SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIVE* the weapons skills should not have existed period, and I agree with you on that regard. The extensive amount of training would have made such skills negligible. Considering the amount of operations Spec-Ops goes through, they are going to be put through hostage rescue scenarios, and weapon accuracy is *MANDATORY*. Watch any documentaries covering British S.A.S. and U.S. Navy SEAL operatives, and one of their training regimens is weapon control.

*EDIT*: Link to Special Operations operatives' interview for Medal of Honor just to get a glimpse of what their world is like:

www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2010/06/tier-1-interview-series

Here's one of your bigger problems.  You've just posted up a link to a piece of marketing and you think that it's true.  Bad news.  That whole thing was written to literally make things sound completely different from the way they exist in reality.  It was written to sell you a copy of a game.

Go read some real information about the topic and come back.  Try to avoid anything written to sell you something.

I'd also appriciate it if you'd start linking to some real information rather than marketing media,  'cause seriously,  that should've been something you learned by 12th grade,  valid resources vs invalid.

[Commander Waha]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Commander Waha wrote...

1: Speaking as someone who has handled a fair number of guns in his time, I can tell you the following. If you can hit a target at 100 yards with an assault rifle, you can damn well do it with a shotgun, or a pistol. Aiming is aiming, and once you get used to the weight of the weapon, which takes 5-10 minutes and not 6 hours of gameplay, you are equally accurate with each weapon to the degree that weapon allows. Gun stats are just an extra stat to put points in. Make work, if you will. 

Considering that Shepard is a *SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIVE* the weapons skills should not have existed period, and I agree with you on that regard. The extensive amount of training would have made such skills negligible. Considering the amount of operations Spec-Ops goes through, they are going to be put through hostage rescue scenarios, and weapon accuracy is *MANDATORY*. Watch any documentaries covering British S.A.S. and U.S. Navy SEAL operatives, and one of their training regimens is weapon control.

*EDIT*: Link to Special Operations operatives' interview for Medal of Honor just to get a glimpse of what their world is like:

www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2010/06/tier-1-interview-series

i say this alot, but really, why do you think there is rarely a topic on build discusion?

Go here http://social.biowar...egory/261/index
Read a few pages.
Kill yourself (optional)

[Manic Sheep]

1: It’s how familiar you are with that type of gun I suppose. A shotgun and an assault rifle do not handle the same way. So yes it does make sense that investing points would improve your ability with that type of weapon. Still I did find that pointless. Shep is a marine she/he should already know how to shoot a gun. It dose not make sense that Shep can barley aim a sniper rifle at the start of the game.  Also I really hate stat based accuracy in shooters (unless it a turn based auto attack where you happen to use guns). Combat in ME1 was horrible, at least to me it was.

2: I agree, Allot of the skils in ME1 where just point sinks and there wasn’t much different between 6 ranks in something and 7. Many of them did pretty much the same thing anyway. They gave you too many redundant skills and too many skill points. I had everything I wanted maxed out and a number of things I didn’t even care about. That said I do ME2’s skills where to limited and could use expanding for more diversity within each class.


3: I prefer ME2’s inventory system and weapons, the ME1 weapons all felt the same (you could easily kill people at range with a shotgun) and hated sifting thru tons and tons of worthless crap and just so I could swap out a rank III weapon with a rank IV one. Especially given how broken it their inventory system was. After a while I just stopped looting and made do with **** equipment. (and it goes to show how easy ME1 was even on insanity that I could do that) That said they could have fixed it and made a better inventory but I prefer what they have now. Where you do have an inventory you just can only access it a certain points and loot is just credits, the occasional new weapon and upgrades. It keeps the game flowing and it makes more sense in the context of the game. For a game like FO3 yes you need an inventory and removing that would be a horrible idea. The whole point in the game is that you are wondering around exploring, scavenging and just general dicking about. Your carrying everything on your back, you start off with nothing and work your way up. It fits with the tone an atmosphere of the game. Me2 you are already set up and being funded, you aren’t carrying everything you own on your back, you have a ship. When you land you are generally on specific and important missions. You know what you are meant to be doing and you’re not there to loot. You should not be stopping to strip every random merc you come across naked and take their **** and stopping to loot all the time would break game flow. It doesn’t in the fallout games because they are at a slower pace but it would in ME2. It makes sense that  you would leave the stuff you’re not planning on using on the ship rather than have it weighing you down and means you have to think about what you are bringing abased on what you think you are going to be fighting rather swaping things out of the fly. Why would you lug 3 sniper rifles around with you?
However I was disappointed with the upgrades, that is one thing in ME2 that truly did feel over simplified to me. There were ammo powers and the guns themselves had strengths and weaknesses to make up for it but it was fairly basic. With the upgrades you just buy everything to get better, there is no trade off or thinking involved. You didn’t have to weigh the pros and cons of equipping a certain upgrade or think about which was better for the mission. I felt they could have had more pre mission preparation.
I would bring equitable upgrades back but not with different ranks (so no scram rail I thru to X, just scram rail). Tho they would need to be completely redone to work with the more diverse guns I think. There are shooters that do it, where in between missions you can buy and equip different mods for weapons (scopes, shorter or longer barrel ect)

4: Agreed tho I do think a few things where streamlined too much for my taste at least.



ROFL I have never seen that comic before, awesome.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 08 mars 2011 - 03:40 .

[Lunatic LK47]

Gatt9 wrote...


Not at all.  Trying to use a weapon effectively in a combat situation with significantly different ranges and spread is very different from standing stationary trying to hit a stationary target at a specified distance.

Adjusting for this is a matter of days,  weeks,  months,  or even years depending on the person.

What the **** do you think M.O.U.T. training is for? Playing an overglorified version of laser tag for the LOLZ?

Here's one of your bigger problems.  You've just posted up a link to a piece of marketing and you think that it's true.  Bad news.  That whole thing was written to literally make things sound completely different from the way they exist in reality.  It was written to sell you a copy of a game.

Uh, why the **** go through the trouble of having military consultants for the game? Attempted authenticity. EA didn't pull the Afghanistan battles out of their asses. YouTube Navy SEAL and British S.A.S. documentaries, ******.

I'd also appriciate it if you'd start linking to some real information rather than marketing media,  'cause seriously,  that should've been something you learned by 12th grade,  valid resources vs invalid.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Embassy_Siege (S.A.S. deployed for Iran Embassy hostage situation)

abcnews.go.com/International/story (Navy SEALs responsible for rescue of a Captain from Somali Pirates)

http://en.wikipedia....jstands_Eenheid (Dutch Military Special Forces responsible for neutralizing two hostage situations in 1977 in the same operation.)

http://en.wikipedia....ansa_Flight_181 (German GS-9 joint operation with S.A.S. operatives in 1977 airplane hi-jacking.)

Learn to research, dumb-ass.

Documentaries covering Special Forces training

www.youtube.com/watch (S.A.S.: The True Story documentary)

www.youtube.com/watch (Navy SEAL MOUT training documentary)

[Il Divo]

Commander Waha wrote...

2: You could put more points into each skill in ME1, but each point meant less. 
     ME2 had half the levels of ME1, and half the skill points, but each level up actually meant something. In ME1 I'd often not level up for 5 or 6 levels, whereas in ME2 you almost always level up immediately every time. It's more fulfilling to level up in ME2. 

Agreed. 1% pistol damage at level up did not strike me as a 'deep and meaningful' RPG element. I understand the concept of gradual progression, but this seems to take it a bit too far.

3: ME1 had a more in depth inventory system, but ME2 accomplished the same ends by using ammo powers. 
    Don't get me wrong, I wish ME2 had more weapons, and it would have been cool to switch armours out for squadmates without appearance packs, but I'm talking more about weapon addons. I certainly don't miss spending twenty minutes of flowbreaking inventory assessment trying to figure out what to equip my guns with. 
 In ME2 it's a much faster, on the fly decision. Synthetics? Disruptor ammo. Armored opponents? Incendiary rounds. Anything? Warp Ammo. It keeps the player in the game, which is what really counts. 

I wouldn't say Mass Effect 2's ammo powers accomplished the same thing; they were actually the only 'deep' element that I thought was lost from Mass Effect. On the other hand, the inventory system was so terrible that I can only look at its removal as a plus, for multiple reasons (time/pacing is a big one). Don't get me wrong, if given the choice between a good inventory and no inventory, I would've taken the former in a second. But between no inventory and a bad inventory? This is where I have trouble understanding the anti-Mass Effect 2 position.

Overall, great post OP.

Modifié par Il Divo, 08 mars 2011 - 03:23 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Commander Waha wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Commander Waha wrote...

1: Speaking as someone who has handled a fair number of guns in his time, I can tell you the following. If you can hit a target at 100 yards with an assault rifle, you can damn well do it with a shotgun, or a pistol. Aiming is aiming, and once you get used to the weight of the weapon, which takes 5-10 minutes and not 6 hours of gameplay, you are equally accurate with each weapon to the degree that weapon allows. Gun stats are just an extra stat to put points in. Make work, if you will. 

Considering that Shepard is a *SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIVE* the weapons skills should not have existed period, and I agree with you on that regard. The extensive amount of training would have made such skills negligible. Considering the amount of operations Spec-Ops goes through, they are going to be put through hostage rescue scenarios, and weapon accuracy is *MANDATORY*. Watch any documentaries covering British S.A.S. and U.S. Navy SEAL operatives, and one of their training regimens is weapon control.

*EDIT*: Link to Special Operations operatives' interview for Medal of Honor just to get a glimpse of what their world is like:

www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2010/06/tier-1-interview-series

i say this alot, but really, why do you think there is rarely a topic on build discusion?

Go here http://social.biowar...egory/261/index
Read a few pages.
Kill yourself (optional)

your link only emphasizes my point. if you want me to search that forum to find your point, id end up on page 67 before i saw a topic in comparing one vangaurd to another. thers more topics in "bring back niftu cal for ME3" then there is comparing classes. you obviously werent around these forums durring ME1, because discussions about classes were the main apeal to the forum. its a shame ME2 doesnt even need that forum anymore.

anyways, did you really just tell me to kill myself? thats pretty messed up homey.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 08 mars 2011 - 03:25 .

[Commander Waha]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Commander Waha wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Commander Waha wrote...

1: Speaking as someone who has handled a fair number of guns in his time, I can tell you the following. If you can hit a target at 100 yards with an assault rifle, you can damn well do it with a shotgun, or a pistol. Aiming is aiming, and once you get used to the weight of the weapon, which takes 5-10 minutes and not 6 hours of gameplay, you are equally accurate with each weapon to the degree that weapon allows. Gun stats are just an extra stat to put points in. Make work, if you will. 

Considering that Shepard is a *SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIVE* the weapons skills should not have existed period, and I agree with you on that regard. The extensive amount of training would have made such skills negligible. Considering the amount of operations Spec-Ops goes through, they are going to be put through hostage rescue scenarios, and weapon accuracy is *MANDATORY*. Watch any documentaries covering British S.A.S. and U.S. Navy SEAL operatives, and one of their training regimens is weapon control.

*EDIT*: Link to Special Operations operatives' interview for Medal of Honor just to get a glimpse of what their world is like:

www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2010/06/tier-1-interview-series

i say this alot, but really, why do you think there is rarely a topic on build discusion?

Go here http://social.biowar...egory/261/index
Read a few pages.
Kill yourself (optional)

your link only emphasizes my point. if you want me to search that forum to find your point, id end up on page 67 before i saw a topic in comparing one vangaurd to another. thers more topics in "bring back niftu cal for ME3" then there is comparing classes. you obviously werent around these forums durring ME1, because discussions about classes were the main apeal to the forum. its a shame ME2 doesnt even need that forum anymore.

anyways, did you really just tell me to kill myself? thats pretty messed up homey.

There's no need for class builds in ME1. 

Your favorite gun, paragon/renegade, your class specific stat, and then whatever the hell you want. 

class builds are irrelevant in a game which could be beaten with the melee button. 

Yes, I did suggest you kill yourself. It's an option, just reminding you. In case you forgot.

[jbg927]

Calm down with the insults and d*** measuring we would like to keep this forum open for HEALTHY debate.

[Lunatic LK47]

jbg927 wrote...

Calm down with the insults and d*** measuring we would like to keep this forum open for HEALTHY debate.

I would, if a few certain people wouldn't have a one-track mind that is stuck inside their asses.

[Commander Waha]

jbg927 wrote...

Calm down with the insults and d*** measuring we would like to keep this forum open for HEALTHY debate.

This is the forum that birthed the chemical analysis of Tali's sweat, and I'd be willing to bet large sums of cash that the guy who built a tali sex doll out of towels, styrofoam and masking tape was from here too. 

Ain't nothing healthy about this place son.

[jbg927]

That's the issue with me1 vs me2 discussions everyone insults everyone and no one is willing to see things from a different perspective. Hopefully me3 will be a balance between both games and bring the positives from both games over for one amazing experience

[Lunatic LK47]

Commander Waha wrote...

jbg927 wrote...

Calm down with the insults and d*** measuring we would like to keep this forum open for HEALTHY debate.

This is the forum that birthed the chemical analysis of Tali's sweat, and I'd be willing to bet large sums of cash that the guy who built a tali sex doll out of towels, styrofoam and masking tape was from here too. 

Ain't nothing healthy about this place son.

Female gamers beware: 

epantiras.deviantart.com/art/Mess-Perfect-078-199929459

Modifié par Lunatic LK47, 08 mars 2011 - 03:41 .

[jbg927]

Ahhhh yes "respect" we have dismissed this value. Lol

[Lunatic LK47]

jbg927 wrote...

That's the issue with me1 vs me2 discussions everyone insults everyone and no one is willing to see things from a different perspective. Hopefully me3 will be a balance between both games and bring the positives from both games over for one amazing experience

There's a difference between seeing things from another perspective and being condescending to anyone who doesn't see their way. Those few certain persons fit the latter category.

[The Spamming Troll]

Commander Waha wrote...

Yes, I did suggest you kill yourself. It's an option, just reminding you. In case you forgot.

well, your a swell guy arent you!

[The Spamming Troll]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

jbg927 wrote...

Calm down with the insults and d*** measuring we would like to keep this forum open for HEALTHY debate.

I would, if a few certain people wouldn't have a one-track mind that is stuck inside their asses.

feelings mutual, although not as hatefull.

[Commander Waha]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Commander Waha wrote...

Yes, I did suggest you kill yourself. It's an option, just reminding you. In case you forgot.

well, your a swell guy arent you!

I've been told as much.