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[RandomNinja]

leggywillow wrote...

RandomNinja wrote...

I have a quick question. During Dissent is the special option where Anders doesn't kill the mage tied to the diplomatic personality?

No; I've gotten it with my sarcastic/charming and aggressive personalities.

Thats good. The wiki and the guide both said it was diplomatic based. It would have sucked if Anders had to suffer because of my love of Hawke's fail humor.

[Apollo Starflare]

TripLight wrote...

Welcome, Apollo! And thanks for sharing your Hawke's story as well. Jennifer really did out do herself on writing Anders, and that he evokes so many different play styles and rps is a testament to that. I take it you sided with the templars on that playthrough as well?

Yeah, I've seen 'new' Anders get some stick, but once you see his complete story arc (and if you take the time to hear some banter between him and the others etc.) the writing really shines. I think she had a really tough task making him true to his Awakening roots but evolving him to the point where he is willing to obliterate the Chantry (for starters). The sheer difficulty I had making both the decision of whether to throw my lot in with him and the Mages and then whether to let him live says just how well Jennifer succeeded in making me care about him as a character - whether I agreed with him or not.

I did indeed side with the Templars, that took quite some time to decide as well! What can I say? I honestly didn't see the Meredith thing coming, which is daft because I remember thinking we didn't get closure on the idol plot point earlier in the game. Plus the dialogue that played out after making the choice was very in character for my Hawke. Minimising casualities and keeping order - try to preserve the city and save it's civilians.

[SurelyForth]

leggywillow wrote...

When Isabela invites you to join her crew, ne of your dialogue options should say "What about Anders?".  Then Isabela says something like "What about him?  He can come to, I'm sure I could find a use for him."  It's very sweet.

Isabela is my Hawke's best friend; she's awesome.

God, I love Isabela, too. I also love the fact that she and Aveline are bonding towards the end of the game.

I really want to see a card game between Anders and Isabela, especially w. my Hawke that had a fling with her at the beginning of Act 2.

Isabela: What are you looking at, Anders? And how can get your attention elsewhere?
Anders: It's that stupid band you wear now. 
Isabela: It's a reminder of a very enjoyable evening.
Anders: With my girlfriend.
Isabela: She told you?
Anders: You told me. About a million times.
Isabela: It's fun to see your face. Jealous and excited.
Isabela: Tell me, does she purr for you? 
Anders: Purr.
Isabela: It would be fitting, considering your cat thing.
Anders: I don't have a cat thing.
Isabela: Whatever, cat fancier. 
Isabela: Oh. What about that birthmark, just above her left knee?
Anders: Really?
Isabela: It's sexy.
Anders: When I get home, I'll let it know you think so.
Isabela: Or you could let me deliver the message myself.
Anders: Just...deal. You and I both know that I'm not allowed to drink enough to make that seem like a good idea.

[Celestria129]

SurelyForth wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

When Isabela invites you to join her crew, ne of your dialogue options should say "What about Anders?".  Then Isabela says something like "What about him?  He can come to, I'm sure I could find a use for him."  It's very sweet.

Isabela is my Hawke's best friend; she's awesome.

God, I love Isabela, too. I also love the fact that she and Aveline are bonding towards the end of the game.

I really want to see a card game between Anders and Isabela, especially w. my Hawke that had a fling with her at the beginning of Act 2.

Isabela: What are you looking at, Anders? And how can get your attention elsewhere?
Anders: It's that stupid band you wear now. 
Isabela: It's a reminder of a very enjoyable evening.
Anders: With my girlfriend.
Isabela: She told you?
Anders: You told me. About a million times.
Isabela: It's fun to see your face. Jealous and excited.
Isabela: Tell me, does she purr for you? 
Anders: Purr.
Isabela: It would be fitting, considering your cat thing.
Anders: I don't have a cat thing.
Isabela: Whatever, cat fancier. 
Isabela: Oh. What about that birthmark, just above her left knee?
Anders: Really?
Isabela: It's sexy.
Anders: When I get home, I'll let it know you think so.
Isabela: Or you could let me deliver the message myself.
Anders: Just...deal. You and I both know that I'm not allowed to drink enough to make that seem like a good idea.

[panamakira]

So I don't usually add Isabela to my party but she grew on me and now I'm glad about her humor. She's gold. Anyway there is this banter with her and Anders that I think is so true.

I forget exactly what she says but it goes along the lines of how the ideal of Justice is nice and all but it doesn't work in the the world they live in. She specifically talks about killing innocents and where would there be justice in that and where would the cycle end.

What's even more interesting is that she even supports freedom of mages. I couldn't believe how much in common I had with her. We want mages to be free but not at the cost of innocents.

Does anybody know exactly how the banter goes? Isabela is going to be my best friend now. The hottest brown-skin beauties in Thedas!

[Jean]

panamakira wrote...

So I don't usually add Isabela to my party but she grew on me and now I'm glad about her humor. She's gold. Anyway there is this banter with her and Anders that I think is so true.

I forget exactly what she says but it goes along the lines of how the ideal of Justice is nice and all but it doesn't work in the the world they live in. She specifically talks about killing innocents and where would there be justice in that and where would the cycle end.

What's even more interesting is that she even supports freedom of mages. I couldn't believe how much in common I had with her. We want mages to be free but not at the cost of innocents.

Does anybody know exactly how the banter goes? Isabela is going to be my best friend now. The hottest brown-skin beauties in Thedas!

• Anders: There is justice in the world.
• Isabela: Is there? You want to free the mages. Let's say you do, but to get there, you kill a bunch of innocent people.
• Isabela: What about them? Don't they then deserve justice?
• Anders: Yes.
• Isabela: And then what? Where does it end?
• Isabela: It's like a bar brawl. People are continuously pulled into the fray, and nobody remembers why it started.
• Isabela: Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world.

[panamakira]

@Batteries
Awesome! Thanks so much. Isabela pretends not to know or get involved in anything but her and Varric have really interesting things to say.

*sigh* I find so much truth in what she says.

[DeaHamlet]

SurelyForth wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

When Isabela invites you to join her crew, ne of your dialogue options should say "What about Anders?".  Then Isabela says something like "What about him?  He can come to, I'm sure I could find a use for him."  It's very sweet.

Isabela is my Hawke's best friend; she's awesome.

God, I love Isabela, too. I also love the fact that she and Aveline are bonding towards the end of the game.

I really want to see a card game between Anders and Isabela, especially w. my Hawke that had a fling with her at the beginning of Act 2.

Isabela: What are you looking at, Anders? And how can get your attention elsewhere?
Anders: It's that stupid band you wear now. 
Isabela: It's a reminder of a very enjoyable evening.
Anders: With my girlfriend.
Isabela: She told you?
Anders: You told me. About a million times.
Isabela: It's fun to see your face. Jealous and excited.
Isabela: Tell me, does she purr for you? 
Anders: Purr.
Isabela: It would be fitting, considering your cat thing.
Anders: I don't have a cat thing.
Isabela: Whatever, cat fancier. 
Isabela: Oh. What about that birthmark, just above her left knee?
Anders: Really?
Isabela: It's sexy.
Anders: When I get home, I'll let it know you think so.
Isabela: Or you could let me deliver the message myself.
Anders: Just...deal. You and I both know that I'm not allowed to drink enough to make that seem like a good idea.

HAHAHAHAHA.  I love this.  Thank you!

[Sjofn]

First time I heard that Isabella/Anders banter was on my second playthrough, and seeing him simply answer "yes" to her question about innocents needing justice as well made me really sad. 

Modifié par Sjofn, 19 mars 2011 - 06:36 .

[maselphie]

Yes ... that's ... sad, knowing what I know now.

[panamakira]

Sjofn wrote...

First time I heard that Isabella/Anders banter was on my second playthrough, and seeing him simply answer "yes" to her question about innocents needing justice as well made me really sad. 

Which reinforces what Jennifer said about Anders wanting to die after the incident with the Chantry. *sigh* Oh Anders. He was clear about what he was going to do back then and he was ready to die for it.

[Dunhart]

I let him live. I'm not about let a little thing like mass murder stand in the way of true love.

I remember how Isabela at one point in the game offers Hawke a spot on her ship after their business with Kirkwall is through. You could even ask if she can take in Anders too if you're romancing him. I can totally see the following exchange take place outside the city right after the last battle (mage ending, of course):

Hawke: So... Does the offer still stand?
Isabela: Huh?
Hawke: About us working on your ship.
Isabela: Oh yeah, provided you can keep him from blowing it up.

Modifié par Dunhart, 19 mars 2011 - 06:51 .

[panamakira]

@Dunhart I didn't befriend Isabela properly my first playthrough. I'm trying to fix that now~

[Aggie Punbot]

Dunhart wrote...

I let him live. I'm not about let a little thing like mass murder stand in the way of true love.

I remember how Isabela at one point in the game offers Hawke a spot on her ship after their business with Kirkwall is through. You could even ask if she can take in Anders too if you're romancing him.

Funnily enough, I just uploaded that very scene not too long ago.

[Eiliestl]

[quote]Dunhart wrote...

I let him live. I'm not about let a little thing like mass murder stand in the way of true love.

I remember how Isabela at one point in the game offers Hawke a spot on her ship after their business with Kirkwall is through. You could even ask if she can take in Anders too if you're romancing him. I can totally see the following exchange take place outside the city right after the last battle (mage ending, of course):
/quote]








Best line of the night thank u

Modifié par Eiliestl, 19 mars 2011 - 07:09 .

[smuglobster]

here's a better one...

[Jean]

www.youtube.com/watch

Well that explains that then

Love Hawke's tone of voice when he asks about it.

Modifié par Batteries, 19 mars 2011 - 07:20 .

[mellifera]

Batteries wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Well that explains that then

So handwavey xDD

[Miri1984]

My Hawke didn't let him live because she loved him. She did it because she agreed with him.

[panamakira]

Exact opposite for my Hawke. Let him live because I don't want him to die for something that Justice essentially drove him to do. After years of deteriorating under Justice, Anders finally gave in. He may have had wishes to burn down chantries before? but I'm sure he would have been more sensible than to kill innocents for his cause.

It would have been different if this was Anders from Awakening but instead we get a tormented man by a corrupted spirit, a demon. I can't kill him when he didn't make that choice on his own but that doesn't mean I accept it. Both him and Justice tainted each other so that he doesn't know which one is him.

That is a problem.

[Jean]

Since I suffer from project myself onto my characters, Merrill's reasoning was mine, pretty much. I wasn't going to add more death to it.

He started it and now he is going to finish it.


And making stories more dramatic. I like to do that.

[panamakira]

Juicy drama. Oh the river of angsty fanfics. Can't wait~

[Miri1984]

@Panamakira see, I don't agree that Justice drove him to it, I think they did it together, I think extreme circumstances meant it was his only option and I think if he was going to devote himself to the cause without Justice (which could well have happened given the point he was at with the wardens before DA2 began) he would have made the same decision and done the same thing. Or contemplated doing the same thing. He might not have had the conviction to carry it through without Justice there though.

They're one being now, with a split personality, blaming it all on Justice is an easy way for us to excuse him. If Anders didn't want to do it, he would have objected, and Justice would have had to assume direct control and make him do it, which wasn't the case.

Modifié par Miri1984, 19 mars 2011 - 07:55 .

[nenosronhir]

I am having a really tough time with the "Justice made him do it" argument. I think it cheapens Anders resolve. Anders has obviously always thought the treatment of mages was unfair, otherwise he wouldn't have spent all those years escaping from the Circle. No, he didn't expect to warp Justice into the creature of vengeance with his anger, but he let Justice in with the explicit intent of doing something about the plight of mages.

That they ended up in Kirkwall, of all places, where the treatment of mages was at the most negatively extreme side of the spectrum, at the same time as a Knight-Commander like Meredith was in power is probably what drove Justice, coupled with Anders' anger, to blowing up the Chantry.

I don't think anything they would have done in the long run would have involved peaceful negotiations - at best I can see them sneaking into Circles across Thedas and encouraging mutiny from within, but that still would have involved violence and innocents bearing the cost - it's possible that without the momentum that the events in Kirkwall inspire that Circles would have been Annulled if they hadn't all gone up almost at once.

Justice convinces Anders to do something. Yes, Justice probably takes it farther than Awakening!Anders would have ever gone, but that is why they do more together than they could apart. No, blowing up the Chantry is not good, or righteous - but the revolution it sparks is, and that's what they were aiming for.

Anyway, I don't think it's right to slap Justice with all the blame, and I don't think it's possible to love/support/encourage Anders without doing the same for Justice. I was going to add to a degree but I figure if I'm going to support them blowing up the Chantry, that line's been crossed already, and that makes the statement moot. XD

Edit: Ninja'd by Miri! XD

Modifié par nenosronhir, 19 mars 2011 - 08:04 .

[maselphie]

So. Even if we kill Anders ... He lives. AMAZING! That somehow makes me happy. He's just really good at faking deaths. I mean. It's not like we slit his throat or anything. I mean. Right? RIGHT?

*is really hoping there's a scapegoat to him being just as important in DA3*