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[Trophonius]

Not just Flemeth, but apparently, Morrigan forestalls a "change" too. If only Morrigan and Anders were both in DA3. I think they would've gotten along well. Some parallels could even be drawn between them. For example, both are highly talented and powerful mages with the capacity for mass carnage; they possess wit; they also have the same abhorrence for the Chantry/Circle and its templars. The only difference is that Morrigan disapproves of abominations (she outright expresses this if you send her to the Fade) while Anders is one. Two of my favorite characters in one game? I wouldn't even need a second opinion.

[maselphie]

Lady Dino wrote...

I think if Anders comes back in DA3 and you killed him in your DA2 save it will probably be just Justice/Vengeance haunting Anders' dead body and only for plot related content. Otherwise they have no reason to bring him back. I also think bringing him back exactly as he was would be a kick in the face to the players who killed him.

All the same, unless there is some plot heavy need for Anders or Justice in DA3 he wont be there.

I've heard this all before ... back when he died in Awakenings. 

Still, you've managed to make me sadder, if that were possible.

[nenosronhir]

@panamakira - I'm on the boat where Friendship path keeps him more in sync with Justice, and the Rivalry path encourages the separation. We get the same codex entry about the moodswings, but moodswings =/= the blackouts he deliberately mentions on the Rivalry path.

I think Rivalry is the way to go if you want to keep Awakening!Anders separate from Justice(as much as you can), and Friendship the way to go if you want them to coexist, so I'll typically go the Friendship route.

@LoneWolf - I can't really blame Fenris for his outlook on mages because of what he went through and how repulsively Tevinter is run(and the fact that most of the mages in Kirkwall have been driven to bloodmagic and servicing demons) - but Sebastian is-- he wants to have his cake and eat it, too. The whole "Vows? What vows? I'm going to claim my Kingly title just to smite you and your precious Anders!" at the end makes me want to smack him. He's griefstricken and I see where he's coming from, but... nnng. :|

[LoneWolf4191]

panamakira wrote...

LoneWolf4191 wrote...

panamakira wrote...

Ugh....I think we might need a Fade DLC....so we can get our answers but I hate the Fade. I'll be happy with a codex.

 I hate the fade too, creeps me out...thats why I always dreaded it in the Orgins storyline, because it takes so long...but you had to do it anyway.... =_=

Yes. The Fade can suck it! Took me forever to get through that. Anyway yeah I have way too many questions. Bioware left a lot of things unanswered so I can't say there is no way to separate Anders from Justice.

Maybe Bioware doesn't even have the answer to that, they can make things up as they go along, it's their game. Their world.

[Lady Dino]

maselphie wrote...

Lady Dino wrote...

I think if Anders comes back in DA3 and you killed him in your DA2 save it will probably be just Justice/Vengeance haunting Anders' dead body and only for plot related content. Otherwise they have no reason to bring him back. I also think bringing him back exactly as he was would be a kick in the face to the players who killed him.

All the same, unless there is some plot heavy need for Anders or Justice in DA3 he wont be there.

I've heard this all before ... back when he died in Awakenings. 

Still, you've managed to make me sadder, if that were possible.

Oh, no! I'm sorry. 

It's just that Anders was super important for this game's climax, so they worked around his possible death. If that need isn't there for the next one then... at least the people who kept him alive will get to keep him, hopefully.

[LoneWolf4191]

nenosronhir wrote...

@panamakira - I'm on the boat where Friendship path keeps him more in sync with Justice, and the Rivalry path encourages the separation. We get the same codex entry about the moodswings, but moodswings =/= the blackouts he deliberately mentions on the Rivalry path.

I think Rivalry is the way to go if you want to keep Awakening!Anders separate from Justice(as much as you can), and Friendship the way to go if you want them to coexist, so I'll typically go the Friendship route.

@LoneWolf - I can't really blame Fenris for his outlook on mages because of what he went through and how repulsively Tevinter is run(and the fact that most of the mages in Kirkwall have been driven to bloodmagic and servicing demons) - but Sebastian is-- he wants to have his cake and eat it, too. The whole "Vows? What vows? I'm going to claim my Kingly title just to smite you and your precious Anders!" at the end makes me want to smack him. He's griefstricken and I see where he's coming from, but... nnng. :|

I understand Fenris, but he stood by me anyway in the end. Sebastian however is impulsive and weak for that matter, I hear constant complaint about him dying on the battlefield, even I had to babysit him and use his attribute points for constitution mostly. There are several times I have wanted to smack him... I wonder if PC users will make a mod for it lol.

[maselphie]

@Lady Dino: Yes, that's true. At least there will be SOME mention of him. Maybe he even shows up. And since he ages well with time, he might even look better, instead of what everyone is complaining happened to Alistair in this game. But then, like you said, would probably just be Justice since he was spiraling waaay down.

Ah. Well. It was a good run, ol'boy! Good show! *hugs Anders plushie and then puts it on the shelf*

Modifié par maselphie, 19 mars 2011 - 09:12 .

[LoneWolf4191]

maselphie wrote...

@Lady Dino: Yes, that's true. At least there will be SOME mention of him. Maybe he even shows up. And since he ages well with time, he might even look better, instead of what everyone is complaining happened to Alistair in this game. But then, like you said, would probably just be Justice since he was spiraling waaay down.

Ah. Well. It was a good run, ol'boy! Good show! *hugs Anders plushie and then puts it on the shelf*

I wanna plushie of Anders... D:

[panamakira]

@nenosronhir
Yeah I like rival-mancing him better. It's more realistic for our relationship because I kind of want to protect him from himself? and although I want to free mages I don't agree with "their" methods. (Justice/Anders)

Plus, I encourage his divorce from Justice!! Mood killer! *grumpy*

@LoneWolf4191
Hell no when they have me addicted to their world. They better have thought this out. They introduce a realm without much answers (The Fade), beings with power and influence beyond their world (spirits, demons), and they make a struggle of the people with a deeper connection to this unknown realm (Mages).

Modifié par panamakira, 19 mars 2011 - 09:17 .

[LoneWolf4191]

panamakira wrote...

@nenosronhir
Yeah I like rival-mancing him better. It's more realistic for our relationship because I kind of want to protect him from himself? and although I want to free mages I don't agree with "their" methods. (Justice/Anders)

Plus, I encourage his divorce from Justice!! Mood killer! *grumpy*

@LoneWolf4191
Hell no when they have me addicted to their world. They better have thought this out. They introduce a realm without much answers (The Fade), beings with power and influence beyond their world (spirits, demons), and they make a struggle of the people with a deeper connection to this unknown realm (Mages).

They probably do have some answers but I hope they just don't pull them out too quickly... But there is so much...The Maker and the Fade are connected, I think, which makes things difficult since the Maker is God and in our world there are so many beleifs that when it comes down to it everyone is right and wrong. To put it very short... The Dalish have a different veiw. They're polytheistic while the chantry is monotheistic. And the way Merrill told stories it was like Native American stories... And I do not understand the Qun at all, not much is still given about the Qunari other than that they can pretty much take over the world if they wanted to, and almost did once. But I do know that the Qun is strict in their beleifs, so like in our world DA has a spllit in religion, mainly three ways.

[Jean]

In the Dragon Age world I think there's some truth to all the religions to some extent. Both the human and Dalish.

[maselphie]

Batteries wrote...

In the Dragon Age world I think there's some truth to all the religions to some extent. Both the human and Dalish.

That's what's amazing about it. Andraste's ashes did work. And you did experience some trippy stuff on the way there. Stuff that only the supernatural could do, in this world.

Still, isn't the Chant man-made? That can still be flawed, like any man-made thing.

[LoneWolf4191]

Batteries wrote...

In the Dragon Age world I think there's some truth to all the religions to some extent. Both the human and Dalish.

Yes, I believe that as well, but the thing is trying to pick and choose what is truth and fiction. The Qun is mostly a way of life, the Chantry is the belief that the Maker will save everyone and the Dalish are set lessons to teach people. Iam just suprised their hasn't been religious wars really, in the Earth's early history the basis of wars were, land, money, and religion was used as a control. That is why Europe went to the Americas because of the threat of the Ottoman Empire (Islamic traditions) back home. In the Americas they converted Natives. Religion was a way of survival back then. To keep customs and traditions going.

[maselphie]

I'm glad there aren't religion wars. Ugh. Can't we just unite over the blight and just be happy to be alive? No? Oh okay. Murrdurr, it is then.

I think the Mage vs Templar is something of a religious war, if you think about it. They use religion to justify locking the mages up, because the Chantry says that magic was made to serve man, and the templars are actually part of the church.

[Ryzaki]

UGH. I hate how Anders forces me to kill him when I side with the Templars. D:

[LoneWolf4191]

maselphie wrote...

I'm glad there aren't religion wars. Ugh. Can't we just unite over the blight and just be happy to be alive? No? Oh okay. Murrdurr, it is then.

I think the Mage vs Templar is something of a religious war, if you think about it. They use religion to justify locking the mages up, because the Chantry says that magic was made to serve man, and the templars are actually part of the church.

True, but I ment an all ot religion war...but then again the Qunari tried to press themselves at Kirkwall which could cause them to attack....agh...as the Seeker said, the whole world is thrown into chaos... The ending gave us a cliffhanger so there will be a DA 3 most likely and it will probably be set in the middle of these wars. Weather your Hawke again or not, it could go either way I sapose... But it'll most likely be Hawke again from what I see since the world needs Hawke and if Hawke isn't there then who will fix it? Some random person? A Noble? Or some ordianry civilian? We will have to see, for now we have to wait for quite some time for those answers... Also...the Wardens can't just sit back and watch the slaughter, what will they do? They obviously can't save a world if there is no more world to save.

[Jean]

I'm still going to indulge myself in the fantasy of a dual playthrough of both The Warden and Hawke. I like crazy and it makes me happy thinking about everyone all getting together again one last time. My Warden owes Anders a slap, a scolding and a hug.
But seriously, I'd imagine Hawke would be easier to bring back than start off with someone new if they plan to continue right where the end game left off.

[LoneWolf4191]

Batteries wrote...

I'm still going to indulge myself in the fantasy of a dual playthrough of both The Warden and Hawke. I like crazy and it makes me happy thinking about everyone all getting together again one last time. My Warden owes Anders a slap, a scolding and a hug.
But seriously, I'd imagine Hawke would be easier to bring back than start off with someone new if they plan to continue right where the end game left off.

That would be difficult to do... having two characters you have created would just be overpowering in a sense, that and Our warden's life span is about 20 more years (because of the joining) since ten just flew by with the Champion, most people would want to just live their life happily especially since what the Warden had to go through, saving an entire nation with just a group of friends, rallying the peoples and slaying the archdemon. But then again, the Warden probably wouldn't sit back and watch the world just burn....

[Jean]

LoneWolf4191 wrote...

Batteries wrote...

I'm still going to indulge myself in the fantasy of a dual playthrough of both The Warden and Hawke. I like crazy and it makes me happy thinking about everyone all getting together again one last time. My Warden owes Anders a slap, a scolding and a hug.
But seriously, I'd imagine Hawke would be easier to bring back than start off with someone new if they plan to continue right where the end game left off.

That would be difficult to do... having two characters you have created would just be overpowering in a sense, that and Our warden's life span is about 20 more years (because of the joining) since ten just flew by with the Champion, most people would want to just live their life happily especially since what the Warden had to go through, saving an entire nation with just a group of friends, rallying the peoples and slaying the archdemon. But then again, the Warden probably wouldn't sit back and watch the world just burn....

There's obviously more going down with Orlais and the Wardens as a whole than we ever see. I do believe that The Warden is more than just simply a Warden. They're tied into something bigger.
Wardens are supposed to remain neutral, but mine was also an Amell, I can see how that might cause some... issues. 

But alas, as I said, it's just allowing myself to indulge into a fantasy.

It's hard to imagine needing about 6 different voice actors for the warden origins. Plus even an Orlesian Warden. Would be insane.

Modifié par Batteries, 19 mars 2011 - 10:15 .

[LoneWolf4191]

Batteries wrote...

LoneWolf4191 wrote...

Batteries wrote...

I'm still going to indulge myself in the fantasy of a dual playthrough of both The Warden and Hawke. I like crazy and it makes me happy thinking about everyone all getting together again one last time. My Warden owes Anders a slap, a scolding and a hug.
But seriously, I'd imagine Hawke would be easier to bring back than start off with someone new if they plan to continue right where the end game left off.

That would be difficult to do... having two characters you have created would just be overpowering in a sense, that and Our warden's life span is about 20 more years (because of the joining) since ten just flew by with the Champion, most people would want to just live their life happily especially since what the Warden had to go through, saving an entire nation with just a group of friends, rallying the peoples and slaying the archdemon. But then again, the Warden probably wouldn't sit back and watch the world just burn....

There's obviously more going down with Orlais and the Wardens as a whole than we ever see. I do believe that The Warden is more than just simply a Warden. They're tied into something bigger.
Wardens are supposed to remain neutral, but mine was also an Amell, I can see how that might cause some... issues. 

But alas, as I said, it's just allowing myself to indulge into a fantasy.

It's hard to imagine needing about 6 different voice actors for the warden origins. Would be insane.

I wonder if the next one will be in Orlais too, Sandal is everywhere in the game and he is the only Dwarven Enchanter you know, he's been there with the Warden and now with Hawke. Sandal's father said he was taking him to Orlais because a Noble has taken curiosity into his enchantments. Also, the Chantry has a lot of power in Orlais which is the basis of the problems in DA2, the Chantry and its Templars. It was also a problem for Ferelden in the Rebel Queen's reign. And Orlais could dtrike Ferelden since they are recovering from a Blight, both their land and political structure is weak and some belive (if you have it this way) That Alistair might not be Maric's legitimate child but a means to seize power. There is a lot happening with Orlais, yet the most we ever get from it is the Chantry, and people like Liliena. Also, since Varric wanted to help the Seeker and he might somehow send word to Hawke possibly making Hawke find her, suggesting they find a solution to this mess. It looks highly likely to me...

[Miri1984]

I think all this talk of separating Justice and Anders... if you look back at the short story you've got a picture of an incredibly lonely man, beset on all sides, abandoned by the people he cares about (yes, I'm looking at YOU Alim Surana) and under attack. Justice is his friend, he's offered to help him, and in the end, I think the merging of the two of them is a good thing, something that has the potential to be wonderful.

Unfortunately, Meredith happens, and she forces a crisis. But if you let him live, and intend to stay by him, there's a possibility he can be brought back into accord with Justice and the two of them can learn to be one again. He never loses control the way he does in Act II - Anders doesn't kill an innocent under the influence of Justice again - he finds a purpose and blows up the chantry as the person he has become - the amalgamation of the two of them.

Anders in Awakenings distracts us with his charm and his humour, but he's been through an incredibly dark time. Taken from his parents, clapped in solitary for an entire year, undoubtably mistreated (although he says he's never been raped) by Templars when they drag him back after his escape attempts - truly, it's amazing he's as sane as he is. I think of Justice as being a comfort to him, a friend who won't desert him. It makes me sad to think he blames himself for what Justice has become.

/ramble over.

[LoneWolf4191]

Miri1984 wrote...

I think all this talk of separating Justice and Anders... if you look back at the short story you've got a picture of an incredibly lonely man, beset on all sides, abandoned by the people he cares about (yes, I'm looking at YOU Alim Surana) and under attack. Justice is his friend, he's offered to help him, and in the end, I think the merging of the two of them is a good thing, something that has the potential to be wonderful.

Unfortunately, Meredith happens, and she forces a crisis. But if you let him live, and intend to stay by him, there's a possibility he can be brought back into accord with Justice and the two of them can learn to be one again. He never loses control the way he does in Act II - Anders doesn't kill an innocent under the influence of Justice again - he finds a purpose and blows up the chantry as the person he has become - the amalgamation of the two of them.

Anders in Awakenings distracts us with his charm and his humour, but he's been through an incredibly dark time. Taken from his parents, clapped in solitary for an entire year, undoubtably mistreated (although he says he's never been raped) by Templars when they drag him back after his escape attempts - truly, it's amazing he's as sane as he is. I think of Justice as being a comfort to him, a friend who won't desert him. It makes me sad to think he blames himself for what Justice has become.

/ramble over.

In Awakening Anders, as he says to Justice, avoids his opression, so he hides it behind his humor. In DA2 he is facing his opression and I understand why he is all depressed and gloomy. Anders is just troubled constantly ever since his childhood.

Modifié par LoneWolf4191, 19 mars 2011 - 10:55 .

[panamakira]

I'd have to disagree with Justice and Anders benefiting from this "union". Justice stopped being objective and Anders lost a bit of himself in the process. They're filled with vengeance. When was vengeance a good thing? That doesn't sit well with me. They were better off separate. I'm just playing right now and I'm on the friendly path with Anders. He just told me "I hope you won't let me loose myself to Justice.."

Yeah I don't think Anders wanted to disappear within Justice or loose himself. Which is something that happens at the end. He regrets letting Justice in because they both stopped becoming themselves. Watching him suffer with that inner struggle is painful. Whether you're a friend or rival, he struggles. He wouldn't struggle to control Justice if he thought it was ok for him to take over or merge with him completely?

But I do agree a lot of bad stuff happen to him prior to DA2. I just think he regrets greatly what they became after they were merged.

Modifié par panamakira, 19 mars 2011 - 11:17 .

[silver-crescent]

panamakira wrote...

I'd have to disagree with Justice and Anders benefiting from this "union". Justice stopped being objective and Anders has a bit less humanity. They're filled with vengeance. When was vengeance a good thing? That doesn't sit well with me. They were better off separate. I'm just playing right now and I'm on the friendly path with Anders. He just told me "I hope you won't let me loose myself to Justice.."

I think Miri 1984 is right actually. If Hawke supports Anders, in the end Anders and Justice just become one, Anders doesn't lose himself to Justice, Justice just becomes part of him. 

[panamakira]

But Justice becoming part of Anders is not something he necessarily wanted? By Hawke supporting Anders, he/she encourages Anders to stop being who he was and merge with the spirit that became corrupted in him. He becomes vengeance. To accept that path. I don't know I guess you guys find it better for him to become another person because Justice. From what he claims. It feels like Hawke is telling him to give in, instead of fight for control.

Down that path I only see self-destruction. :/