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[silver-crescent]

panamakira wrote...

But Justice becoming part of Anders is not something he necessarily wanted? By Hawke supporting Anders, he/she encourages Anders to stop being who he was and merge with the spirit that became corrupted in him. He becomes vengeance. To accept that path. I don't know I guess you guys find it better for him to become another person because Justice. From what he claims. It feels like Hawke is telling him to give in, instead of fight for control.

Down that path I only see self-destruction. :/

I think Hawke supporting Anders is the best choice because it seems like he and Justice can't be separated, so it's best for him to just embrace Justice, so that the 2 of them can become one, without either of them actually being lost in the mix. Hence why in the friend-romance Anders doesn't have blackouts and whatnot.

If Hawke rivals Anders and goes against Justice, it just makes things much harder, because basically he can't be separated from Justice, but he's unable to accept him either, so where does that leave him?

[TripLight]

silver-crescent wrote...

panamakira wrote...

But Justice becoming part of Anders is not something he necessarily wanted? By Hawke supporting Anders, he/she encourages Anders to stop being who he was and merge with the spirit that became corrupted in him. He becomes vengeance. To accept that path. I don't know I guess you guys find it better for him to become another person because Justice. From what he claims. It feels like Hawke is telling him to give in, instead of fight for control.

Down that path I only see self-destruction. :/

I think Hawke supporting Anders is the best choice because it seems like he and Justice can't be separated, so it's best for him to just embrace Justice, so that the 2 of them can become one, without either of them actually being lost in the mix. Hence why in the friend-romance Anders doesn't have blackouts and whatnot.

If Hawke rivals Anders and goes against Justice, it just makes things much harder, because basically he can't be separated from Justice, but he's unable to accept him either, so where does that leave him?

IMO, I think Anders had to accept Justice either way, just to let him inside. He actively let Justice possess him, he knew what he was doing, he just didn't realize what that could lead too.
I don't think rivaling Anders makes it harder, I think that Hawke, instead of supporting him, is making Anders himself take a LONG hard look at himself. While Friend Anders is less conflicted, Rival Anders, is questioning whether he is really in control or not.

[silver-crescent]

TripLight wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

panamakira wrote...

But Justice becoming part of Anders is not something he necessarily wanted? By Hawke supporting Anders, he/she encourages Anders to stop being who he was and merge with the spirit that became corrupted in him. He becomes vengeance. To accept that path. I don't know I guess you guys find it better for him to become another person because Justice. From what he claims. It feels like Hawke is telling him to give in, instead of fight for control.

Down that path I only see self-destruction. :/

I think Hawke supporting Anders is the best choice because it seems like he and Justice can't be separated, so it's best for him to just embrace Justice, so that the 2 of them can become one, without either of them actually being lost in the mix. Hence why in the friend-romance Anders doesn't have blackouts and whatnot.

If Hawke rivals Anders and goes against Justice, it just makes things much harder, because basically he can't be separated from Justice, but he's unable to accept him either, so where does that leave him?

IMO, I think Anders had to accept Justice either way, just to let him inside. He actively let Justice possess him, he knew what he was doing, he just didn't realize what that could lead too.
I don't think rivaling Anders makes it harder, I think that Hawke, instead of supporting him, is making Anders himself take a LONG hard look at himself. While Friend Anders is less conflicted, Rival Anders, is questioning whether he is really in control or not.

I see your point but what I meant is that friend Hawke helps Anders accept that Justice is... well, not "in" him as a separate entity, but is actually a vital part of him. They are one, and that doesn't mean that Anders himself is no longer there, just that he is different. It's not really about who's in control since they're basically one and the same.

[DeaHamlet]

I think all this speculation of whether friending or rivaling is the better thing for Anders is complete metagaming.
In the game, your character simply doesn't know... whether because they want to support a friend or because they support his viewpoints, they choose to help him at every turn. Or maybe they choose to help him sometimes because most of his requests have to do with helping people, helping mages.
If your character does not agree with his viewpoint or what Anders is (o.O abomination, grr stuff)... then they question and disagree at every turn.
What he becomes in interactions is a reflection of that... the more you disagree, the more you incite his anger. And in romance, he loves you, you don't agree with him, he struggles with all your questions and sometimes the anger takes over. You're bumping heads with him on everything he holds true or dear. He will react. And his anger is no longer Anders' (from Awakening) anger... it's this new person's anger. This new person that is both Anders and Justice, and neither.

On the friendship path... for 3 years he tries to stay away from the mage revolution. But the abuse keeps pushing and pushing and pushing at him... and he cannot sit idly by any longer. He doesn't have that self-preservation to just run away from it all anymore, which he had in Awakening. His humor and his shallow approach were his way of avoiding the bigger issue. He doesn't have that pretence any more.

So what's best for Anders is best decided on the experiences and opinions in game. To disagree with him vehemently just because metagame you think it's best so you can attempt to keep that old Anders part more separate or not... I don't know, it seems crazy to me. If your character disagrees with Anders' viewpoints and solutions, you react and he reacts to that. Simple as that.

As someone said many pages ago... in the end it comes down with whether you agree with Anders or not. And that's what it is, really.
And it's difficult to imagine the point of trying to convince someone who sees Anders justification that disagreeing with him vehemently and causing him blackouts is good for him.

In the end, I see my character as being friends or lovers with Anders because she appreciates who he is NOW.
My warden loves the silly old Anders, but my Hawke never met that guy. Hawke met this new Anders, for better or for worse... being rivals, friends or lovers is all about Hawke's opinions and feelings about Anders, the mages, the templars... the whole situation.

Pfeww, long rant. I apologize for the length. I'm just not understanding the need to keep going back and forth "rival romance is better", "no, friend romance is better"...

[TripLight]

DeaHamlet wrote...

I think all this speculation of whether friending or rivaling is the better thing for Anders is complete metagaming.
In the game, your character simply doesn't know... whether because they want to support a friend or because they support his viewpoints, they choose to help him at every turn. Or maybe they choose to help him sometimes because most of his requests have to do with helping people, helping mages.
If your character does not agree with his viewpoint or what Anders is (o.O abomination, grr stuff)... then they question and disagree at every turn.
What he becomes in interactions is a reflection of that... the more you disagree, the more you incite his anger. And in romance, he loves you, you don't agree with him, he struggles with all your questions and sometimes the anger takes over. You're bumping heads with him on everything he holds true or dear. He will react. And his anger is no longer Anders' (from Awakening) anger... it's this new person's anger. This new person that is both Anders and Justice, and neither.

On the friendship path... for 3 years he tries to stay away from the mage revolution. But the abuse keeps pushing and pushing and pushing at him... and he cannot sit idly by any longer. He doesn't have that self-preservation to just run away from it all anymore, which he had in Awakening. His humor and his shallow approach were his way of avoiding the bigger issue. He doesn't have that pretence any more.

So what's best for Anders is best decided on the experiences and opinions in game. To disagree with him vehemently just because metagame you think it's best so you can attempt to keep that old Anders part more separate or not... I don't know, it seems crazy to me. If your character disagrees with Anders' viewpoints and solutions, you react and he reacts to that. Simple as that.

As someone said many pages ago... in the end it comes down with whether you agree with Anders or not. And that's what it is, really.
And it's difficult to imagine the point of trying to convince someone who sees Anders justification that disagreeing with him vehemently and causing him blackouts is good for him.

In the end, I see my character as being friends or lovers with Anders because she appreciates who he is NOW.
My warden loves the silly old Anders, but my Hawke never met that guy. Hawke met this new Anders, for better or for worse... being rivals, friends or lovers is all about Hawke's opinions and feelings about Anders, the mages, the templars... the whole situation.

Pfeww, long rant. I apologize for the length. I'm just not understanding the need to keep going back and forth "rival romance is better", "no, friend romance is better"...

Long rants and wall of texts are what make these threads a real joy to participate in:wizard:.

[nodice]

DeaHamlet wrote...
In the end, I see my character as being friends or lovers with Anders because she appreciates who he is NOW.
My warden loves the silly old Anders, but my Hawke never met that guy. Hawke met this new Anders, for better or for worse... being rivals, friends or lovers is all about Hawke's opinions and feelings about Anders, the mages, the templars... the whole situation.
 

Well said.

[DeaHamlet]

What did people think of Anders' reaction to Zevran's attempts to bed Hawke?
Does it differ if it's a rival romance versus friend romance?

The sarcastic comment was just adorable. And hilarious considering old Anders would have been just as shallow!!!!

[Aeowyn]

Haha I loved it Dea. Thought it was quite funny how "defensive" he became.



Edit: So, if your sibling dies, Grace kidnaps your LI. In this case, Anders.... My Hawke was very pissed off when she found out they'd gotten him.

Modifié par Aeowyn, 19 mars 2011 - 02:17 .

[DeaHamlet]

@Aeowyn
Damn, I never got the kidnapping of LI thing... I should have gotten that damn Carver bastard killed, grrrr. He wasn't even thankful when I rescued him!!! Ingrate.
Do you know if they kidnap LI if my sibling is in the grey wardens? It's hard to imagine not taking Anders in the deep roads. I took him both times so far (second time cause I wanted to save my sister and see what that plot is like... had to leave Fenris home though *sad face*). Anders is just so awesome in cut scenes.

[Aeowyn]

They have to be dead Dea. So far I've had Carver join the Templars, join the Wardens and be dead.

[Sjofn]

DeaHamlet wrote...

What did people think of Anders' reaction to Zevran's attempts to bed Hawke?
Does it differ if it's a rival romance versus friend romance?

The sarcastic comment was just adorable. And hilarious considering old Anders would have been just as shallow!!!!

I thought it was an amusing take-that to people who whined Zevran was totally shallow in DA:O. 

[snarkycleric]

The sarcastic comment was just adorable. And hilarious considering old Anders would have been just as shallow!!!!

I had a giggle, actually, and went "Aww, Anders, you don't have to be jealous. Zevran's already with my Cousland."

[DeaHamlet]

Damnations! I guess next playthrough (evil blood mage teehee) Carver is getting killed for sure. Sadly, I'll be rival romancing Fenris because I cannot convince myself that making Anders fall for a blood mage, an evil one at that, is very nice. I think Anders will be the only one to like me that playthrough (what with my "DIE templar, DIE!" roleplaying).
Eventually I'll redo my mage with Anders playthrough and Carver is going to die.

How do I always end up not taking my LI in the deep roads? What gives.

[TMA LIVE]

Is this ever brought up in DA2? Because if it isn't, those Templiers seriously don't know how to do their jobs. In Awakening, it's clear that they still have his phylactery, and Anders himself says they knew he was in the city of Kirkwall. Now add the fact that he owns a clinic, and doesn't change locations, how the hell could he possibly remain uncaught for 3 years?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 19 mars 2011 - 02:39 .

[nenosronhir]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Is this ever brought up in DA2? Because if it isn't, those Templiers seriously don't know how to do their jobs. In Awakening, it's clear that they still have his phylactery, and Anders himself says they knew he was in the city of Kirkwall. Now add the fact that he owns a clinic, and doesn't change locations, how the hell could he possibly remain uncaught for 3 years?

The Templars in Kirkwall may not have his Phylactery - he IS an mage from the Fereldan Circle, so it's likely in Denerim or Amaranthine or wherever they keep the Phylacteries of mages from Ferelden. Granted he does remain stationary, but considering the amount of people he helps, it's likely that none of them are willing to turn him in/confirm the Templars suspicions, so he remains at large and they lack proof that he's a mage? 8D

Also I think the codex seems to imply that Hawke's influence keeps the Templars at bay. I think.

Modifié par nenosronhir, 19 mars 2011 - 02:57 .

[Aeowyn]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Is this ever brought up in DA2? Because if it isn't, those Templiers seriously don't know how to do their jobs. In Awakening, it's clear that they still have his phylactery, and Anders himself says they knew he was in the city of Kirkwall. Now add the fact that he owns a clinic, and doesn't change locations, how the hell could he possibly remain uncaught for 3 years?

Well in Awakening (in my pt at least) he becomes a Warden, and the Chantry has no authority over the Wardens so the Templars shouldn't be hunting him. After he disappears, I imagine that word doesn't go out to the Templars that Anders is an apostate now? I mean, he does say sometimes how the Templars are sniffing outside his clinic, and then after the romance scene how the Templars were at his clinic. So they must be close. After that though, I think Hawke's money and influence has protected him, just as it has protected him/her from being brought to the Circle (if it's a mage Hawke)

[DeaHamlet]

I must say, how can people NOT tell there are mages everywhere? They wear a staff on their backs! LOL

I love it when I have Anders in my party and I walk around the gallows... right by the templars. And Anders is right there with me. They must fear me something awful to not go after Anders, LOL.

[nenosronhir]

Haha, yeah, not to mention dressing a mage-y Hawke up in Circle robes (or robes of any variety!) I guess Templars just have off-days whenever the Champion and his/her entourage are around...

[snarkycleric]

Haha, yeah, not to mention dressing a mage-y Hawke up in Circle robes (or robes of any variety!) I guess Templars just have off-days whenever the Champion and his/her entourage are around...

Add the banter to that mess. There's a Carver-Anders dialogue which goes something like

CARVER: I don't like you.
ANDERS: Why? Because I'm a mage?
CARVER: No, because you won't shut up about it.

ME: ... GUYS, IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF TEMPLARS THE BEST PLACE TO TALK ABOUT THIS O_O

[nenosronhir]

XD I think the most awkward would be... anything Merrill and Anders talk about, because it's all bloodmagic this and abomination that. XD ... aside from the fluff about kittens or Pounce, anyway.

Modifié par nenosronhir, 19 mars 2011 - 03:15 .

[DeaHamlet]

snarkycleric wrote...

Haha, yeah, not to mention dressing a mage-y Hawke up in Circle robes (or robes of any variety!) I guess Templars just have off-days whenever the Champion and his/her entourage are around...

Add the banter to that mess. There's a Carver-Anders dialogue which goes something like

CARVER: I don't like you.
ANDERS: Why? Because I'm a mage?
CARVER: No, because you won't shut up about it.

ME: ... GUYS, IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF TEMPLARS THE BEST PLACE TO TALK ABOUT THIS O_O

Hahaha.  Thanx for sharing, I hated Carver so I never brought him anywhere.  

[nenosronhir]

Oh man, Carver's such a ******, but I love him. ;~; I just-- gah, I wish Bethany/Carver were around longer than Act 1, and that you got more than a perfunctory, bitter letter from them if you send them off to be Grey Wardens. D: I haven't seen what happens if they become Circle Mage/Templar yet.

[snarkycleric]

XD I think the most awkward would be... anything Merrill and Anders talk about, because it's all bloodmagic this and abomination that. XD ... aside from the fluff about kittens or Pounce, anyway.

Oh, yes.

They talked about it so openly that after a while I half-expected

"The templars capture all of you because none of you can stop talking about abominations and maleficar. You are hauled off to the Kirkwall Circle. Maybe that will teach you to stop talking about it next time."

@nenosronhir - love your Deep Roads team. Mine was pretty much the same except Carver instead of Bethany, since I played a mage. XD

DeaHamlet wrote...

Hahaha.  Thanx for sharing, I hated Carver so I never brought him anywhere.  

 

You're welcome. I absolutely had to bring Carver around just to see the party banter between him and Anders, myself. XD 

Modifié par snarkycleric, 19 mars 2011 - 03:31 .

[Nivilant]

nenosronhir wrote...

Oh man, Carver's such a ******, but I love him. ;~; I just-- gah, I wish Bethany/Carver were around longer than Act 1, and that you got more than a perfunctory, bitter letter from them if you send them off to be Grey Wardens. D: I haven't seen what happens if they become Circle Mage/Templar yet.

*snip*

That was my very first Deep Roads party too!  Except Hawke was a warrior.

Second one Carver went Templar on me and I shook my fist in MageRage.

Third one.... sorry Beth. No smexy blonde warden to save you this time *sniffle*

[Aeowyn]

My favourite is when Cullen talks about mages and then ends it with

"they are not normal like you and me."

And my Hawke is a mage. I just want to laugh. lol