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[highcastle]

signcherie wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Sorry, I'm a bit obsessed with him in Solitary at the moment. Doing lots of research on it. God, it's just so horrible. But this pic really captures it I think. By Sixthdeadlysin on DevArt.

You're telling me. I'm a dual criminology/literature student. I'm just finishing up a course on corrections with a special emphasis on the effects of solitary. Even sane, rational individuals can crack under the pressure of current-day facilities which at least offer a modicum of time out of the cell, if only for an hour a day. I have to imagine back in the middle ages there wasn't much of a push for human rights. In light of this, it's amazing Anders held it together so well in Awakening and really not surprising that he carried enough anger and fear to turn Justice into Vengeance.

Ooh, people who have actually researched the topic.

That thing about a year in solitary always gets me, and I know nothing about it, save that I saw Murder in the First and thought that it was god-awful from that movie. Do you know if that is a realistic portrayal of what you could expect from someone who's been in solitary for that long? because Anders seems amazingly sane, given what he went through. (and that's saying something.)

I haven't seen Murder in the First, so I can't comment on that specifically. I do agree Anders seems pretty sane considering his circumstances, but solitary doesn't break everyone in the same way. I interviewed one man who'd been in solitary for three years and he was remarkably well-adjusted. He'd also converted to Buddhism in prison and spent much of his time in meditation. To hear him speak about it, the people who do well are those who find some way to occupy their time.

In present-day solitary, inmates can earn and lose privileges depending on their behavior. Some have access to televisions and books, but these can be taken away if they refuse to cooperate with guards or violate the rules in any way. Problems arrise when routines change. The inmates have a lot of time to themselves. They grow dependent on certain patterns, and any change in that pattern can set them off. These people also tend to be very violent offenders. Very few people are sentenced to solitary. You "earn" your way there through bad behavior while in prison. So these tend to be people who assault guards or other inmates. Basically we're taking people who are violent offenders already, locking them up with no human contact, and acting surprised when it makes many of them more volatile than ever.

The scary thing is many of these people are released directly from solitary onto the streets. There's no weaning back into society. Recidivism rates for inmates coming from solitary and super-max facilities thus tend to be much higher.

To put this on Anders' situation, it's a miracle he wasn't jumping and twitching any time someone came near him. I watched an interview with one inmate who spent 3 years in solitary, was released, and then arrested a week later because he stabbed someone in a convenience store. He said he thought the man had been following him and he panicked. It made him paranoid. Considering this, I don't doubt lingering effects from solitary fed Anders' paranoia in DA2.

Criminology's a fascinating field, really. I never figured I'd be applying it to a video game, but there you go.

Edit for top:

Modifié par highcastle, 17 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[GailRana]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

GailRana wrote...

Cool! I'm quite impressed then. what are the RGBA values you used for that silver and the green from your first one?

DA tints aren't from 0-255... they're from 0 to 1. And changes between Origins and DAII require you to reduce the intensity by a factor of ten and decimate each RGB value.

So, the silver is: 0.0940999984741, 0.0940999984741, 0.0940999984741

And the green is: 0.0234999991953, 0.0430999994278, 0.0234999991953

Thanks much for the cods and the info! Are you a programer? My Coding knowledge doesn't extend much further then making websites look pretty with CSS 

[GailRana]

highcastle wrote...
*snip interesting info*

wow, thank you for taking the time to write all that up. It's interesting, and kind of sad... they really release people straight from solitary to society? That's... not good. Is that standard for all prisons or do you know if it varies from state to state?

[signcherie]

highcastle wrote...

signcherie wrote...


Ooh, people who have actually researched the topic.

That thing about a year in solitary always gets me, and I know nothing about it, save that I saw Murder in the First and thought that it was god-awful from that movie. Do you know if that is a realistic portrayal of what you could expect from someone who's been in solitary for that long? because Anders seems amazingly sane, given what he went through. (and that's saying something.)

I haven't seen Murder in the First, so I can't comment on that specifically. I do agree Anders seems pretty sane considering his circumstances, but solitary doesn't break everyone in the same way. I interviewed one man who'd been in solitary for three years and he was remarkably well-adjusted. He'd also converted to Buddhism in prison and spent much of his time in meditation. To hear him speak about it, the people who do well are those who find some way to occupy their time.

In present-day solitary, inmates can earn and lose privileges depending on their behavior. Some have access to televisions and books, but these can be taken away if they refuse to cooperate with guards or violate the rules in any way. Problems arrise when routines change. The inmates have a lot of time to themselves. They grow dependent on certain patterns, and any change in that pattern can set them off. These people also tend to be very violent offenders. Very few people are sentenced to solitary. You "earn" your way there through bad behavior while in prison. So these tend to be people who assault guards or other inmates. Basically we're taking people who are violent offenders already, locking them up with no human contact, and acting surprised when it makes many of them more volatile than ever.

The scary thing is many of these people are released directly from solitary onto the streets. There's no weaning back into society. Recidivism rates for inmates coming from solitary and super-max facilities thus tend to be much higher.

To put this on Anders' situation, it's a miracle he wasn't jumping and twitching any time someone came near him. I watched an interview with one inmate who spent 3 years in solitary, was released, and then arrested a week later because he stabbed someone in a convenience store. He said he thought the man had been following him and he panicked. It made him paranoid. Considering this, I don't doubt lingering effects from solitary fed Anders' paranoia in DA2.

Criminology's a fascinating field, really. I never figured I'd be applying it to a video game, but there you go. 

Wow, thanks for answering. Stupid of me not to explain what the movie was about in my question, although you answered it anyway. In Murder in the First, a non-violent, petty criminal is put in solitary for three years for trying to escape. If I recall correctly, they portray him as being alone in a dark room with meals shoved through a hole and no way to pass the time. Immediately after being let out, he murders a fellow prisoner (the guy responsible for him being caught, I think) with a spoon. Afterward, he can't remember having killed the guy but he admits he probably did. Um...there's a story description here.

Anyway, every time I hear mention of Anders' time in solitary, that's what I think of.

[highcastle]

GailRana wrote...

highcastle wrote...
*snip interesting info*

wow, thank you for taking the time to write all that up. It's interesting, and kind of sad... they really release people straight from solitary to society? That's... not good. Is that standard for all prisons or do you know if it varies from state to state?

I don't know about all states. I know at least the states we're studying (FL, TX, and CA mostly because they set the standard for corrections in the country) there are no laws dictating how inmates get released. Most prisons set up a type of levels system. In CA, for instance, there are 6 levels to detention centers. The bottoms three are in super max facilities with level 6 being full solitary confinement with no TV or other privileges. They basically sit in their cells all day with nothing to do, no one to talk to, no one to even look at because most cells are designed to minimize inmate interaction. Some try "fishing" to communicate (attaching scraps of paper to string, shooting it from beneath their cell door, and hoping another inmate picks it up). Getting caught at fishing can bump you down a level, as can refusing to give your lunch tray back when the guards ask for it, talking back to authority, etc.

Anyway, the idea is that inmates earn back privleges and move up the levels. But it's hard to do and very easy to slide back down. But you also can't hold someone in prison for longer than their sentence. So at the end of the day you may find yourself releasing someone who could never earn his way out of level 6. And once more, people are surprised when these men return to violence and crime. We're setting them up for failure in many ways.

EDIT: Ah, Alcatraz. Lots of bad stuff went down there. Solitary confinement has changed over the years as the corrections system tries to make it more "humane." Inmates aren't confined in darkness, but there's absolutely nothing stimulating in there at the lowest levels. TV, books, radio, etc. are all privileges to be earned. Guards don't have face-to-face contact with the prisoners. They're still fed through slots in the doors. Most of the doors have small windows so the guards can peer inside and make sure the inmates aren't doing anything dangerous. But the cells are generally positioned so inmates can't see each other.

And yes, many inmates do snap after coming out of solitary. I should mention, though, most states have laws saying these inmates should be given an hour of recreation outside their cells. This is also done in solitary. How it's set up varies between facilities. Some have literal dog runs in the prison yard. Others have a small room that might have a pull-up bar or such in it. There's very little regulation in this regard.

Modifié par highcastle, 17 avril 2011 - 05:12 .

[Maugrim]

No seriously very interesting discussions going on in these last few pages. Maybe I have been a bit hard on poor Anders.

Still gonna murderknife him often though... >.>

[GailRana]

highcastle wrote...
I don't know about all states. I know at least the states we're studying (FL, TX, and CA mostly because they set the standard for corrections in the country) there are no laws dictating how inmates get released. Most prisons set up a type of levels system. In CA, for instance, there are 6 levels to detention centers. The bottoms three are in super max facilities with level 6 being full solitary confinement with no TV or other privileges. They basically sit in their cells all day with nothing to do, no one to talk to, no one to even look at because most cells are designed to minimize inmate interaction. Some try "fishing" to communicate (attaching scraps of paper to string, shooting it from beneath their cell door, and hoping another inmate picks it up). Getting caught at fishing can bump you down a level, as can refusing to give your lunch tray back when the guards ask for it, talking back to authority, etc.

Anyway, the idea is that inmates earn back privleges and move up the levels. But it's hard to do and very easy to slide back down. But you also can't hold someone in prison for longer than their sentence. So at the end of the day you may find yourself releasing someone who could never earn his way out of level 6. And once more, people are surprised when these men return to violence and crime. We're setting them up for failure in many ways.

EDIT: Ah, Alcatraz. Lots of bad stuff went down there. Solitary confinement has changed over the years as the corrections system tries to make it more "humane." Inmates aren't confined in darkness, but there's absolutely nothing stimulating in there at the lowest levels. TV, books, radio, etc. are all privileges to be earned. Guards don't have face-to-face contact with the prisoners. They're still fed through slots in the doors. Most of the doors have small windows so the guards can peer inside and make sure the inmates aren't doing anything dangerous. But the cells are generally positioned so inmates can't see each other.

And yes, many inmates do snap after coming out of solitary. I should mention, though, most states have laws saying these inmates should be given an hour of recreation outside their cells. This is also done in solitary. How it's set up varies between facilities. Some have literal dog runs in the prison yard. Others have a small room that might have a pull-up bar or such in it. There's very little regulation in this regard.

again, thank you for the information.

I'd imagine the prisons in the circle tower didn't have windows, but bars or a feeding slot would allow a cat in and out most likely... hopefully? In my head it'd be a lot like the prison Edmond Dantes was kept in the Count of Monte Cristo movie.

Modifié par GailRana, 17 avril 2011 - 05:29 .

[mesmerizedish]

GailRana wrote...

Thanks much for the cods and the info! Are you a programer? My Coding knowledge doesn't extend much further then making websites look pretty with CSS

Oh, heavens no... I don't even know how to do that. I just know a little bit about a lot of things, and it's been enough for me to put my mod together, with a lot of help from significant sources

[GailRana]

makenzieshepard wrote...



No seriously very interesting discussions going on in these last few pages. Maybe I have been a bit hard on poor Anders.

Still gonna murderknife him often though... >.>

that scene is so sad! But i love how he has this moment where he smiles and looks freed at the end. I'm going to cry if one of my characters end up having to murderknife him!

and yeah, this topic's been on my mind since i read about Bradley Manning (wikileaks) and his solitary confinement. EDIT: Well, that and Anders in awakenings

Modifié par GailRana, 17 avril 2011 - 05:32 .

[GailRana]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

GailRana wrote...

Thanks much for the cods and the info! Are you a programer? My Coding knowledge doesn't extend much further then making websites look pretty with CSS

Oh, heavens no... I don't even know how to do that. I just know a little bit about a lot of things, and it's been enough for me to put my mod together, with a lot of help from significant sources

Knowing a little bit about a lot of things is my personal preference as well

the next random skill i plan to pick up is lock picking! I have a lock pick set, now all i have to do is get some cheap locks to practice on *Will be ready to free the mages*
 

[signcherie]

@highcastle, thank you again for the very interesting information. It's...scary as hell, actuallly. And it makes me wonder what the Templars consider solitary. Poor Anders.

[eleridragon]

GailRana wrote...

highcastle wrote...

/snip very interesting stuff in the name of space saving.

again, thank you for the information.

I'd imagine the prisons in the circle tower didn't have windows, but bars or a feeding slot would allow a cat in and out most likely... hopefully? In my head it'd be a lot like the prison Edmond Dantes was kept in the Count of Monte Cristo movie.

I'd always envisioned him being in one of the cells in the basement that you can see when you go down there during the mage origin quests or during Witch Hunt.  I'm not sure if they'd have more elsewhere in the tower.

And thanks for that insight, Highcastle, it was, well, not fun to read, but good to read.

[GailRana]

eleridragon wrote...

GailRana wrote...

highcastle wrote...

/snip very interesting stuff in the name of space saving.

again, thank you for the information.

I'd imagine the prisons in the circle tower didn't have windows, but bars or a feeding slot would allow a cat in and out most likely... hopefully? In my head it'd be a lot like the prison Edmond Dantes was kept in the Count of Monte Cristo movie.

I'd always envisioned him being in one of the cells in the basement that you can see when you go down there during the mage origin quests or during Witch Hunt.  I'm not sure if they'd have more elsewhere in the tower.

And thanks for that insight, Highcastle, it was, well, not fun to read, but good to read.

i guess that would make the most sense since they have those. but if those are the regular cells then would solitary be somewhere else?

dear god this is a depressing topic... I need a cat to chill with and pet when i feel this sad!

[signcherie]

 
by runaire

[mesmerizedish]

Chirurgeon's Gown

[GailRana]

signcherie wrote...

 
by runaire

Much better <3

one of the truest and best Dragon age images of all time!

[Tasmen]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Chirurgeon's Gown

Oh I do rather like that one.

[phantomdragoness]

GailRana wrote...

i guess that would make the most sense since they have those. but if those are the regular cells then would solitary be somewhere else?

dear god this is a depressing topic... I need a cat to chill with and pet when i feel this sad!

Luckily, I have a kitty who loves to sit on my chest and purr purr away whenever I'm sad. XD The issue...I can't see past his fat ass.

Anders must be one of the strongest companions to retain a sense of sanity after going through all this crap. Though, I'd think being a mage warrants mental strength. The man is just so dang stubborn, I'm not utterly surprised he's twitchy and running from every shadow that moves. Perhaps he survived on his anger more-so than stubbornness...he's so sarcastic in Awakening, I kept thinking: "Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin."  But to consider yourself so carefree, but then a spirit possess you and turns into a semi-demon because of your anger...it changes you.

Damnit, where's my cat?!

[GailRana]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Chirurgeon's Gown

you're having fun with this aren't you

[nyxocity]

 I'm in the middle of playing, and I just talked to Bodahn in Act II when something hit me. Bodahn tells you that Anders "finds my boy's enchanting interesting". Sandal, as we know, makes things go BOOM. 

I wonder if that's how he figured out how to make the bomb? 

[phantomdragoness]

thenyxie wrote...

 I'm in the middle of playing, and I just talked to Bodahn in Act II when something hit me. Bodahn tells you that Anders "finds my boy's enchanting interesting". Sandal, as we know, makes things go BOOM. 

I wonder if that's how he figured out how to make the bomb? 

...I knew that boy was trouble.

[GailRana]

phantomdragoness wrote...

Luckily, I have a kitty who loves to sit on my chest and purr purr away whenever I'm sad. XD The issue...I can't see past his fat ass.

Anders must be one of the strongest companions to retain a sense of sanity after going through all this crap. Though, I'd think being a mage warrants mental strength. The man is just so dang stubborn, I'm not utterly surprised he's twitchy and running from every shadow that moves. Perhaps he survived on his anger more-so than stubbornness...he's so sarcastic in Awakening, I kept thinking: "Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin."  But to consider yourself so carefree, but then a spirit possess you and turns into a semi-demon because of your anger...it changes you.

Damnit, where's my cat?!

*Lights Bat Cat Signal*

all very true. Glad i'm not the only one that finds his attitude and ability to go through all that and not be completely broken inspiring (EDIT: what's the word for that? It's on the tip of my tongue but i can't think of it and it's making my brain hurt >_<) (i know it's fictional, but it's still admirable)

Modifié par GailRana, 17 avril 2011 - 06:09 .

[signcherie]

thenyxie wrote...

I'm in the middle of playing, and I just talked to Bodahn in Act II when something hit me. Bodahn tells you that Anders "finds my boy's enchanting interesting". Sandal, as we know, makes things go BOOM.

I wonder if that's how he figured out how to make the bomb?

Interesting theory. I don't know if I believe Sandal knew the recipe for gunpowder, but then, that bomb didn't exactly behave like a regular gunpowder bomb. Maybe Sandal helped him...amplify it, so to speak.

[GailRana]

thenyxie wrote...

 I'm in the middle of playing, and I just talked to Bodahn in Act II when something hit me. Bodahn tells you that Anders "finds my boy's enchanting interesting". Sandal, as we know, makes things go BOOM. 

I wonder if that's how he figured out how to make the bomb? 

lol, i can see Sandal's reaction to the chantry explosion now! 

Enchantment!

[mesmerizedish]

GailRana wrote...

you're having fun with this aren't you

I wouldn't do it if I weren't

Finally, the Warcoat of the Spirit of Justice and Mercy