57020 réponses à ce sujet

[shiba5]

MorningBird wrote...

I think something the developers mentioned was that, in regards to DAO, if there was a 'good' option that would miraculously save all parties involved, the mass majority of players would pick that option to get the 'good' ending, even though some of the 'bad' endings were more dramatic.

Example: Most players go to the circle for help during the Redcliffe quest so that they don't have to kill Connor or sacrifice Isolde, even though having the quest end with Connor/Isolde's death is more dramatic.

In DA2, they wanted the players to experience more of that drama (as opposed to ignoring it), so sometimes you're not going to have that good 'hero saves everyone' story ending.

They said they got rid of the option to save Mom for just that reason. People kept reloading to get the good ending. Well, yeah I didn't really want to see Mom's head sewn on another person's body.
At least the touching scene with Anders afterward made it worth it. I am a horrible person.

Modifié par shiba5, 17 avril 2011 - 07:29 .

[Sherbet Lemon]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I guess I'm used to other BW games, that fill in time gaps with what THEY want you to do.
All this empty space makes me dizzy. 

Eh.  It's a matter of personal preference!  We all like different things.  The time skip don't work as well for you and I do agree with some of the earlier comments about some of the minutae being a bit jarring.  I'm okay with the time skips, for the most part, but then again, I'm really easy to please...actually, I'm probably a little too easy...

EDIT: Grammar fail....T_T

Modifié par Village Idiot, 17 avril 2011 - 07:31 .

[Bekkachan]

You know, a lot of you have said he has a marvelous nose, and he does... but I find myself more entranced by his scruffilicious chin. Nibble worthy. What is wrong with me?

[Jean]

Huh.

I took mom dying as more of a "unleashed mages are cray cray" and make you want to kill them all or whatever nefarious and bloody ritual you can come up with.

Which judging by some reactions on this forum it did just that.

[Purposeof-Flight]

It's just Anders' face in general.
Sexy sexy scruffy hobo man he is.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Batteries wrote...

Huh.

I took mom dying as more of a "unleashed mages are cray cray" and make you want to kill them all or whatever nefarious and bloody ritual you can come up with.

Which judging by some reactions on this forum it did just that.

I didn't really think of mages in my first playthrough, when my mother was killed.
My reaction was of horror, yes, but i never made me want to obliterate all mages with a steely fist.

[signcherie]

Honestly, in Origins, I would have preferred if my only options were to kill Connor or Isolde--not to have the option to go to the Circle. But I'm not sure I see the correlation between that and the quest with your mom. With the Connor thing, it would mean taking out a third option that makes things a little too easy. But with Leandra...you're not left with any choice at all, are you?

[Kawamura]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Huh.

I took mom dying as more of a "unleashed mages are cray cray" and make you want to kill them all or whatever nefarious and bloody ritual you can come up with.

Which judging by some reactions on this forum it did just that.

I didn't really think of mages in my first playthrough, when my mother was killed.
My reaction was of horror, yes, but i never made me want to obliterate all mages with a steely fist.

I also didn't think of mages.

But I was also playing a mage, soooo?

[Purposeof-Flight]

signcherie wrote...

Honestly, in Origins, I would have preferred if my only options were to kill Connor or Isolde--not to have the option to go to the Circle. But I'm not sure I see the correlation between that and the quest with your mom. With the Connor thing, it would mean taking out a third option that makes things a little too easy. But with Leandra...you're not left with any choice at all, are you?

No, you're screwed. Your mom dies.
And there's a vast difference between Connor and Quentin.
Quentin was driven mad by grief, and heavily researched necromancy to recreate his dead wife.
Connor was not driven mad, per se. He wanted to help his father, and when a demon came to him offering help, he took the deal and proceeded to wreak havoc.

I happily kill Isolde in every playthrough where I'm not romancing Alistair. I won't kill Connor, but Isolde? Oh yes.

Modifié par Purposeof-Flight, 17 avril 2011 - 07:37 .

[Purposeof-Flight]

Kawamura wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Huh.

I took mom dying as more of a "unleashed mages are cray cray" and make you want to kill them all or whatever nefarious and bloody ritual you can come up with.

Which judging by some reactions on this forum it did just that.

I didn't really think of mages in my first playthrough, when my mother was killed.
My reaction was of horror, yes, but i never made me want to obliterate all mages with a steely fist.

I also didn't think of mages.

But I was also playing a mage, soooo?

You were biased.

I was a rogue. The only person that made me think mages were crazy...was Grace.
Grace, that psycho ****.

[Jean]

Kawamura wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Huh.

I took mom dying as more of a "unleashed mages are cray cray" and make you want to kill them all or whatever nefarious and bloody ritual you can come up with.

Which judging by some reactions on this forum it did just that.

I didn't really think of mages in my first playthrough, when my mother was killed.
My reaction was of horror, yes, but i never made me want to obliterate all mages with a steely fist.

I also didn't think of mages.

But I was also playing a mage, soooo?

Neither did I. Thought the man had many, many loose wires in his head

But the mage angle is pushed in some dialogue after it

[Sherbet Lemon]

MorningBird wrote...

I think something the developers mentioned was that, in regards to DAO, if there was a 'good' option that would miraculously save all parties involved, the mass majority of players would pick that option to get the 'good' ending, even though some of the 'bad' endings were more dramatic.

Example: Most players go to the circle for help during the Redcliffe quest so that they don't have to kill Connor or sacrifice Isolde, even though having the quest end with Connor/Isolde's death is more dramatic.

In DA2, they wanted the players to experience more of that drama (as opposed to ignoring it), so sometimes you're not going to have that good 'hero saves everyone' story ending.

I'm glad they did this because I would choose to save everyone every time.  The person that always saved both Connor and Isolde, that was me.  I discovered that option by accident, and wasn't spoiled.  It was Isolde that prompted me to seek the other when I'd initially decided to kill Connor.  I felt so bad about it and then she got all indignant so my poor sweet Amell was like T_T...what do we dooooo?  I went back and choose the "anything else we can do option" and Alistair and Wynne were like..."duh, Circle." 

I was massively spoiled for Mass Effect 2 so and I did everything I possibly could so that certain things wouldn't happen.  (I don't want to spoil the innocent like I was. )  Once school is out, I've got a renegade playthrough planned (in ME 1 and 2) and I'm almost positive I will do what I can to achieve the most heroic ending (as I know it to be so far).

EDIT: Fixed a sentence.

Modifié par Village Idiot, 17 avril 2011 - 07:43 .

[0o-Constance-o0]

Bekkachan wrote...

You know, a lot of you have said he has a marvelous nose, and he does... but I find myself more entranced by his scruffilicious chin. Nibble worthy. What is wrong with me?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you dear.

We all have dreams of doing obscene things with Anders' chin

[shiba5]

Wow, my buddy is nerd raging hard. Just got another email from him - now says he doesn't like "not feeling heroic" and won't play another DA game. Dude, you played through FOUR times. I think you got your monies worth. He hates Anders. If only he'd romanced him, he'd feel differently. 

Modifié par shiba5, 17 avril 2011 - 07:44 .

[Poetics124]

Batteries wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Huh.

I took mom dying as more of a "unleashed mages are cray cray" and make you want to kill them all or whatever nefarious and bloody ritual you can come up with.

Which judging by some reactions on this forum it did just that.

I didn't really think of mages in my first playthrough, when my mother was killed.
My reaction was of horror, yes, but i never made me want to obliterate all mages with a steely fist.

I also didn't think of mages.

But I was also playing a mage, soooo?

Neither did I. Thought the man had many, many loose wires in his head

But the mage angle is pushed in some dialogue after it

And the fact that Orsino was encouraging and aiding Quentin in his mad research.   Since Orsino is seen as the leader of the mages it was supposed to put into question just how dangerous mages are.

It didn't really influence me in my playthrough as Hawke had Bethany, her father, and other innocent mages as reason why you couldn't blame all mages.  No more than I could really blame all templars for Meredith's craziness.  

[MorningBird]

signcherie wrote...

Honestly, in Origins, I would have preferred if my only options were to kill Connor or Isolde--not to have the option to go to the Circle. But I'm not sure I see the correlation between that and the quest with your mom. With the Connor thing, it would mean taking out a third option that makes things a little too easy. But with Leandra...you're not left with any choice at all, are you?

There were choices (follow a blood trail or use a blood magic ritual to find the villain's lair) that made it possible to assume that one path would lead to saving Leandra while the other led to her death.  This was good in the sense that it demonstrated what lengths Hawke would go to in order to save his/her mother.

However, the clock was against Hawke from the get go.  Leandra didn't JUST go missing five minutes ago.  She'd been missing for possibly hours, long enough to not only alarm Gamlen, but to get him out of his hovel looking for her.

Then there's the travel time of moving between Hightown and Lowtown/Darktown, fighting your way through a legion of demons in the lair...

Having a 'Hawke saves everyone' ending under those circumstances would have seemed peculiar.

Modifié par MorningBird, 17 avril 2011 - 07:49 .

[mellifera]

shiba5 wrote...

Wow, my buddy is nerd raging hard. Just got another email from him - now says he doesn't like "not feeling heroic" and won't play another DA game. Dude, you played through FOUR times. I think you got your monies worth. He hates Anders. If only he'd romanced him, he'd feel differently. 

If he hates it so much, why keep playing? Video games are time consuming, dropping 20-60 hours on something you REALLY HATE (REPEATEDLY) seems like a massive waste of time.

[Ninche]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

signcherie wrote...

Honestly, in Origins, I would have preferred if my only options were to kill Connor or Isolde--not to have the option to go to the Circle. But I'm not sure I see the correlation between that and the quest with your mom. With the Connor thing, it would mean taking out a third option that makes things a little too easy. But with Leandra...you're not left with any choice at all, are you?

No, you're screwed. Your mom dies.
And there's a vast difference between Connor and Quentin.
Quentin was driven mad by grief, and heavily researched necromancy to recreate his dead wife.
Connor was not driven mad, per se. He wanted to help his father, and when a demon came to him offering help, he took the deal and proceeded to wreak havoc.

I happily kill Isolde in every playthrough where I'm not romancing Alistair. I won't kill Connor, but Isolde? Oh yes.

Yup. Good job Bioware for introducing me to a brand new character and making me hate her guts after like... 3 lines. So yeah, killing Isolde is guilt free for me. (Well...almost) 

You know what I thought after Anders blew up the chantry? I thought he was the bravest bloody guy ever. Generally people sort of just want to get along as well as possible and get on with their lives in peace - nobody wants to be hated or disliked even,. When people are playing their Hawke as this 100% noble do-gooder they will ALWAYS go for the impossibly convinient dont-need-to-slaughter-anyone-and-they-all-get -puppies option. Why is everyone so shocked at the chantry thing?

Because it's easy to stand aside and judge and blame and lecture about right and wrong and feel all high and mighty and boast about NEVER DOING SUCH A MONSTROUS THING. But what if we were given no choice at all, or better yet, what if in order to do what our character believes is right we had to  do something absolutely horrible that would lead everyone to hating us and hunting us? It would be bloody hard to do it - avoiding conflict and remaining passive is sooo much easier - we are all cowards. 

Choosing between templars and mages was sort of a tough choice I suppose... even tho I honestly don't see how NOT protecting the mages could ever be the right thing to do. But I'd like for Hawke to do something grand and controversial too. 

Maybe I'm just bitter for not being the one to blow up the old hag =( 


Edit: Forgot the D in AnDers 

Modifié par Ninche, 17 avril 2011 - 07:52 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

I think something the developers mentioned was that, in regards to DAO, if there was a 'good' option that would miraculously save all parties involved, the mass majority of players would pick that option to get the 'good' ending, even though some of the 'bad' endings were more dramatic.

Example: Most players go to the circle for help during the Redcliffe quest so that they don't have to kill Connor or sacrifice Isolde, even though having the quest end with Connor/Isolde's death is more dramatic.

In DA2, they wanted the players to experience more of that drama (as opposed to ignoring it), so sometimes you're not going to have that good 'hero saves everyone' story ending.

I picked that option not to be the Martyr,
but so Alistair wouldn't scream in my face.

Psst: you can completely bypass Alistair's hissy fit even if you choose to sacrifice Isolde. If you pick the "I think that went rather well" convo option when he approaches you in camp afterwards, he'll actually THANK you for taking the time to help. No approval hit, nothing.

Knowing that, I sacrifice Isolde every time. In-game, my justification is that it'll take a while to get to the Circle and that the demon might do something in the meantime; it's a terrible thing to do, but things might go even worse if I don't do it. Out of game, the justification is that I always do Redcliffe first so I can recruit Zevran faster, and that Zev's scene in the Fade does a lot to help understand his character. Also, Isolde has the worst fake French accent EVER. Well, maybe tied with Marjolaine.

I'm a bad person.

About the time passing problem, sounds like the exact same issue as with Assassin's Creed II. Ezio craves revenge...yet spends 10 years pissing around doing completely random things. And the only visible change? He grows a beard. Actually, 3-day stubble would be a more appropriate term.

Not sure how I feel about the "taking away choice to enhance drama" issue though. On the one hand, yes, it's true that you have to process the drama if you don't have a choice. But on the other hand, what if I genuinely don't want the drama? I know plenty of people who have willingly sacrificed their Wardens or half of their ME2 team, despite there being a choice not to. They picked drama because they thought it made the story better. So I can understand being upset over not having an influence on things.

Of course, replaying a game you're raging about for not giving you said influence...that, I don't understand.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 17 avril 2011 - 07:57 .

[signcherie]

shiba5 wrote...

Wow, my buddy is nerd raging hard. Just got another email from him - now says he doesn't like "not feeling heroic" and won't play another DA game. Dude, you played through FOUR times. I think you got your monies worth. He hates Anders. If only he'd romanced him, he'd feel differently. 

That might be the solution to everything. Everyone should romance Anders.

[MorningBird]

Village Idiot wrote...
I'm glad they did this because I would choose to save everyone every time.  The person that always saved both Connor and Isolde, that was me.  I discovered that option by accident, and wasn't spoiled.  It was Isolde that prompted me to seek the other when I'd initially decided to kill Connor.  I felt so bad about it and then she got all indignant so my poor sweet Amell was like T_T...what do we dooooo?  I went back and choose the "anything else we can do option" and Alistair and Wynne were like..."duh, Circle." 

I was massively spoiled for Mass Effect 2 so and I did everything I possibly could so that certain things wouldn't happen.  (I don't want to spoil the innocent like I was. )  Once school is out, I've got a renegade playthrough planned (in ME 1 and 2) and I'm almost positive I will do what I can to achieve the most heroic ending (as I know it to be so far).

EDIT: Fixed a sentence.

This was me as well. xD  Killing children didn't sit right with my Warden, but his mother was taken away from him early in life (city elf) and it was something he always felt bitter about.  He wasn't about to bestow the same fate upon Conner by killing his mother if he could help it.

Still, if the option wasn't there, I agree that it would have been more dramatic in the sense that it would have forced my Warden to do something that would have churned his stomach.

[shiba5]

yukidama wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Wow, my buddy is nerd raging hard. Just got another email from him - now says he doesn't like "not feeling heroic" and won't play another DA game. Dude, you played through FOUR times. I think you got your monies worth. He hates Anders. If only he'd romanced him, he'd feel differently. 

If he hates it so much, why keep playing? Video games are time consuming, dropping 20-60 hours on something you REALLY HATE (REPEATEDLY) seems like a massive waste of time.

I have no idea. Plus, I have several massive emails from him raging about how "it's all wrong wrong wrong!"
I don't get it. If I don't like something, I just leave it alone. I don't keep going back for more punishment and then keep harping about it.

[signcherie]

Rather than an option to save your mom, what if you had to choose between letting your mom die or letting your sibling die? And then whoever you saved would blame you for letting the other one die? Talk about drama...and you'd still feel like you had a choice, at least...

[nekhbet]

Isolde is an annoying ****, but I can't hate her. I probably wouldn't do differently if I was in her shoes, cuz my children don't go to any Circles rrraagh... I've such a soft spot for apostates I can't hate anyone protecting one.

My mages usually end up killing her, though, especially if they didn't betray Jowan earlier. I once had the Warden kill Connor, too. But that Warden was a templar...

[Kawamura]

signcherie wrote...

Rather than an option to save your mom, what if you had to choose between letting your mom die or letting your sibling die? And then whoever you saved would blame you for letting the other one die? Talk about drama...and you'd still feel like you had a choice, at least...

That would be awesome awful awesome.

It would end up the same, though. Carver would hate my Hawke for killing mum.