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[Ryzaki]

I mostly kill Conner. It's sad but it must be done in their eyes.

A few kill Isolde and a couple go back to the Circle (of course the only way I can justify this is by having the Circle already have been dealt with).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 avril 2011 - 08:04 .

[Threeparts]

Batteries wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I didn't really think of mages in my first playthrough, when my mother was killed.
My reaction was of horror, yes, but i never made me want to obliterate all mages with a steely fist.

I also didn't think of mages.

But I was also playing a mage, soooo?

Neither did I. Thought the man had many, many loose wires in his head

But the mage angle is pushed in some dialogue after it

Yeah, agreeing with all these.

I'm not going to blame an entire group of people for what Quentin did, or Decimus, or Grace, or any of the other mages. I really got the feeling that I was supposed to hate this entire minority because of what a few of them did, and that just didn't fly with me. I stayed puzzled about how mages vs templars was even a hard choice until I came on the forums and read people hating mages because they're all evil maleficar. It just wasn't something I picked up on. It does illustrate that mages have power available if they want to use it for ill, but, ****, so do all the heavily armed men, elves and Qunari we come across.

I'm more prone to judge all templars by the actions of a few, because they're part of the same system, connected through their training and occupation. They have a choice to be a templar, and if they remain a loyal one despite seeing what their leader and brethren are capable of, then they are more personally responsible than a group of people who are only connected by a trait that they happen to be born with.

It's why I admired Thrask and those working with him: they saw that the system wasn't working and were trying to change it; it was only their bad luck that they hooked up with Grace. Having a templar strike in the Gallows during Act III would have made me far more sympathetic to them - as it is I kept wondering why none of them ever protested about Meredith's orders.

Modifié par Threeparts, 17 avril 2011 - 08:11 .

[Bekkachan]

0o-Constance-o0 wrote...

Bekkachan wrote...

You know, a lot of you have said he has a marvelous nose, and he does... but I find myself more entranced by his scruffilicious chin. Nibble worthy. What is wrong with me?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you dear.

We all have dreams of doing obscene things with Anders' chin

Okay, now you're just giving me dirty ideas and thoughts.

... thank you. <3

[ipgd]

I don't really think All That Remains would have worked if there were multiple outcomes, even if they were all equally bad ones. Part of the reason it was impactful was that there was absolutely nothing you could do to stop it, and it explicitly stripped you of your agency and set you up to feel powerless. Being able to choose an outcome would have dulled that significantly.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Kawamura wrote...

signcherie wrote...

Rather than an option to save your mom, what if you had to choose between letting your mom die or letting your sibling die? And then whoever you saved would blame you for letting the other one die? Talk about drama...and you'd still feel like you had a choice, at least...

That would be awesome awful awesome.

It would end up the same, though. Carver would hate my Hawke for killing mum.

Sadist.


Personally, I woiuld save my mom, if I were a Warrior/Rogue.
Brother if I were a mage. 

[TripLight]

ipgd wrote...

I don't really think All That Remains would have worked if there were multiple outcomes, even if they were all equally bad ones. Part of the reason it was impactful was that there was absolutely nothing you could do to stop it, and it explicitly stripped you of your agency and set you up to feel powerless. Being able to choose an outcome would have dulled that significantly.

Have I mentioned that I love you?

[Ryzaki]

I didn't hate the mages but I saw it as a hard choice. (Especially considering I kept getting attacked while trying to help them because ra forbid they resist). Once Orsino went bonkers I ended up reloading and siding with the templars. The only reason I stopped was because Anders wouldn't help and he was a staple of my party. 

I find it really hard to side with the mages now. Yes many of them are innocent but I can't justify letting the bloodmages in the circle loose on the world. And sadly those are your options. Kill em all (or at least all those that fight back) or let em all go. 

As for all that remains. I think the lack of choice dulled it for me. The Conner choice is more impactful for me *because* I know I have mulitple outcomes. (Not to mention the whole "Well I left at night and somehow got there at the same exact time as leaving in the afternoon" factor)

All the Remains at this point is just a "meh. Let me hurry up so I can see Zombie mom and move on with the game." 

Leandra? Who my mother? That I have a grand total of what 3 conversations with? Big whoop. 

Her death felt like an unnecessary side quest just to show Hawke how much Kirkwall sucked and how he couldn't do jack squat to effect his surrondings. 

Yay. Another chance to feel like background noise. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 avril 2011 - 08:18 .

[Jean]

All That Remains was really sad but I feel like it would of had more impact if Mama!Hawke did more in Act II.

You have approx. 2 conversations with her, +1 if you accepted that quest from Dougal.

Beyond that sometimes I forgot she was there standing in the estate.

[mellifera]

shiba5 wrote...

I have no idea. Plus, I have several massive emails from him raging about how "it's all wrong wrong wrong!"
I don't get it. If I don't like something, I just leave it alone. I don't keep going back for more punishment and then keep harping about it.

See, I'm the first to admit that I'll keep watching a tv series or movie after it's gone to crap and complain about it, but  there's usually a point where I just give up and say I was disappointed (and it comes pretty quickly because I like to move on to things that actually entertain). None of these things take literal days worth of time to complete. Games take so long to finish, it just boggles the mind that people would waste so much of their time to play a game they hate more than once. It's.... ridiculous.

[signcherie]

ipgd wrote...

I don't really think All That Remains would have worked if there were multiple outcomes, even if they were all equally bad ones. Part of the reason it was impactful was that there was absolutely nothing you could do to stop it, and it explicitly stripped you of your agency and set you up to feel powerless. Being able to choose an outcome would have dulled that significantly.

Perhaps.

I just see it as a different type of powerlessness if you can make choices but no matter what, the outcome isn't any better for it.

[Kawamura]

ipgd wrote...

I don't really think All That Remains would have worked if there were multiple outcomes, even if they were all equally bad ones. Part of the reason it was impactful was that there was absolutely nothing you could do to stop it, and it explicitly stripped you of your agency and set you up to feel powerless. Being able to choose an outcome would have dulled that significantly.

It kinda ends up the same way for my Hawke. It's his fault, even if he can't change things.

It's always his fault.

So the choice would have been lost on me anways, I guess is what I'm saying.

Modifié par Kawamura, 17 avril 2011 - 08:16 .

[Purposeof-Flight]

I seriously lulzed at this:



I'm sure it's been posted before, but cool Anders made me laugh my ass off.

[Sherbet Lemon]

I saw "All That Remains" as an instance where art imitated life. There are times when there is absolutely nothing one can do to change the path they're on.  My Hawke went into the Deep Roads to build  a better life for her family.  She wanted to protect her mother, re-establish her family name and take back her ancestral home.  Despite the fact that she achieved this greatness, she was still unable to prevent the loss of her mother.  This seemed incredibly powerful to me.  There are some things more important than money and status, and that realization for her came when she was alone, when she was left behind with nothing but an empty house and her lovely mabari.  That was a great moment for me personally and made my Hawke feel very real to me.  I guess that's just how I took it!

[Isaantia]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I seriously lulzed at this:



I'm sure it's been posted before, but cool Anders made me laugh my ass off.

Poor Anders, he doesn't know that he sold out when he blew up the chantry.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Haha my favorite part is Ser Pounce-a-Lot.
"Meow, ****es."

[Threeparts]

ipgd wrote...

I don't really think All That Remains would have worked if there were multiple outcomes, even if they were all equally bad ones. Part of the reason it was impactful was that there was absolutely nothing you could do to stop it, and it explicitly stripped you of your agency and set you up to feel powerless. Being able to choose an outcome would have dulled that significantly.

I agree with this, but I understand that its where a lot of complaints about railroading stem from. There isn't any way to avoid that, there isn't any way to avoid the Chantry exploding, there isn't any way to stop your sibling from leaving for most of the game. There are ways to avoid fighting the Qunari and slaughtering Merrill's clan, but I'd think on the first playthrough most people would not have found them (hands up if Isabela never came back with the tome on your first unspoiled run!)

Although they increase the drama, the lack of options or middle roads really gets people frothing mad. I love it, but I love the drama. In my current Origins playthrough I'm kind of lamenting how easy it is to pick The Right Choice. If I had to choose between slaughtering the elves or the werewolves, if I had to choose between Connor and Isolde, if Morrigan never offered her ritual and a Warden had to die, if destroying the Anvil had consequences, Origins would have had so many more punches to the gut.

In DA:O you have to make your own drama; in DA2 it walks up to you and slaps you in the face.

[Ninche]

Wow... I just clicked on Dragon Age 2 credits for the first time and heard Florence + the machine - Liar >.> That explains alot.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Ninche wrote...

Wow... I just clicked on Dragon Age 2 credits for the first time and heard Florence + the machine - Liar >.> That explains alot.

I think that's supposed to be centered around Varric.
Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that that song is centered around Varric.

[autumnyte]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I seriously lulzed at this:



I'm sure it's been posted before, but cool Anders made me laugh my ass off.

Bwah!! That is pretty much the most brilliant thing ever.  Though, there was Hipster Anders a plenty in DA2. 

[Tasmen]

ipgd wrote...

I don't really think All That Remains would have worked if there were multiple outcomes, even if they were all equally bad ones. Part of the reason it was impactful was that there was absolutely nothing you could do to stop it, and it explicitly stripped you of your agency and set you up to feel powerless. Being able to choose an outcome would have dulled that significantly.

And as rough as that quest was, that was one of the main reasons I enjoyed it and it had such a huge impact on me. 

[Ninche]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Ninche wrote...

Wow... I just clicked on Dragon Age 2 credits for the first time and heard Florence + the machine - Liar >.> That explains alot.

I think that's supposed to be centered around Varric.
Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that that song is centered around Varric.

Well, I only tried listening to them because of this thread and now I'm mildly obsessed and Anders is branded on every song. Sorry Varric. 

Edit: For whatever reason there was NO music at all when I actually finished my first playthrough. I was SO disappointed. The Origins credit song actually made me sob - it just fit so perfectly with the mood of the game. If Liar had played for me at the end of my first DA2 playthrough I would've ended up weeping on the floor or something. 

Modifié par Ninche, 17 avril 2011 - 08:37 .

[highcastle]

Threeparts wrote...

ipgd wrote...

I don't really think All That Remains would have worked if there were multiple outcomes, even if they were all equally bad ones. Part of the reason it was impactful was that there was absolutely nothing you could do to stop it, and it explicitly stripped you of your agency and set you up to feel powerless. Being able to choose an outcome would have dulled that significantly.

I agree with this, but I understand that its where a lot of complaints about railroading stem from. There isn't any way to avoid that, there isn't any way to avoid the Chantry exploding, there isn't any way to stop your sibling from leaving for most of the game. There are ways to avoid fighting the Qunari and slaughtering Merrill's clan, but I'd think on the first playthrough most people would not have found them (hands up if Isabela never came back with the tome on your first unspoiled run!)

Although they increase the drama, the lack of options or middle roads really gets people frothing mad. I love it, but I love the drama. In my current Origins playthrough I'm kind of lamenting how easy it is to pick The Right Choice. If I had to choose between slaughtering the elves or the werewolves, if I had to choose between Connor and Isolde, if Morrigan never offered her ritual and a Warden had to die, if destroying the Anvil had consequences, Origins would have had so many more punches to the gut.

In DA:O you have to make your own drama; in DA2 it walks up to you and slaps you in the face.

You know, I really don't mind railroading in cRPGs. There's only so much a computer can track. And sometimes, when they give us too many options, the story loses its impact or not all those decisions can carry through to the next game. In a tabletop or pen and paper game, I have a lot less patience for this. The DM only has to worry about an audience of 4 to 6 players, not the millions that will be playing DA or other games. Above all, I play RPGs because of the story, and sometimes in this medium, the story needs to be restricted to be effective.

Plus, I'm not a huge fan of the Middle Option. I liked the Redcliffe quest so much better when I thought you could only kill Isolde or Conner. I felt it was dark and effective, and the second time I went through and realized everyone could live actually really disappointed me. It felt like making any kind of sacrifice was just pointless, then. What's the motivation to kill Isolde, then? Or Conner? In removing some of the player's agency at key components, the writers are free to explore some of these darker choices.

But I do understand some people don't like having all those choices removed. Personally, I'm okay with my choices being confined to how I react to certain events. We don't control every event in our lives, after all. Sometimes the only thing you can do is choose how to roll with the punches.

[Purposeof-Flight]

autumnyte wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I seriously lulzed at this:
-snip-


I'm sure it's been posted before, but cool Anders made me laugh my ass off.

Bwah!! That is pretty much the most brilliant thing ever.  Though, there was Hipster Anders a plenty in DA2. 


-snip-

I <3 Karl's WTF expression in the background.

[silver-crescent]

Yeah it's supposed to be Varric's theme song but it kinda fits Anders as well.

Though this - - is totally Anders/Hawke's theme.

And this - - is totally Anders/Justice's theme.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Ninche wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Ninche wrote...

Wow... I just clicked on Dragon Age 2 credits for the first time and heard Florence + the machine - Liar >.> That explains alot.

I think that's supposed to be centered around Varric.
Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that that song is centered around Varric.

Well, I only tried listening to them because of this thread and now I'm mildly obsessed and Anders is branded on every song. Sorry Varric. 

LMFAO yeah that's supposed to be his theme song.
Varric Romance DLC FTW.
I wanna hear the story about Bianca. <3