57020 réponses à ce sujet

[shiba5]

Threeparts wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

I agree. Mind if I send this off to my friend? For some reason my responses just tend to incite him further. Must be my charm.

Haha, you can if you like! Basically it boils down to: if you want to save the world, go back to DA:O. If you want to have your world fall to pieces around you, play DA2.

Heh, ok so basically it seems his main beef is that he feels pigeon holed into using Anders for healing, and he hates Anders. So, I was right. If you romance Anders, the game is FABULOUS!

Modifié par shiba5, 18 avril 2011 - 02:02 .

[YamiSnuffles]

shiba5 wrote...

Heh, ok so basically it seems his main beef is that he feels pigeon holed into using Anders for healing, and he hates Anders. So, I was right. If you romance Anders, the game is FABULOUS!

Well there's his problem. He's playing DA2 wrong. You should always want to have Anders in your team.

[shiba5]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Heh, ok so basically it seems his main beef is that he feels pigeon holed into using Anders for healing, and he hates Anders. So, I was right. If you romance Anders, the game is FABULOUS!

Well there's his problem. He's playing DA2 wrong. You should always want to have Anders in your team.

I agree completely, but I don't think that argument is going to sway him.

[SurelyForth]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Heh, ok so basically it seems his main beef is that he feels pigeon holed into using Anders for healing, and he hates Anders. So, I was right. If you romance Anders, the game is FABULOUS!

Well there's his problem. He's playing DA2 wrong. You should always want to have Anders in your team.

Even my boyfriend, who isn't too fond of Anders (although he spared him again the other day, even without my prompting him to), likes having him on his team. As a matter of fact, Anders is ALWAYS there, even though he's not used much for healing. He just feels like the story works better with Anders around.

[LastFadingSmile]

Tell the poor darling to pop down to Casual and then he won't need a healer at all.

[shiba5]

Kolotosa wrote...

Tell the poor darling to pop down to Casual and then he won't need a healer at all.

I just suggested this.

[YamiSnuffles]

I do think Anders adds a lot to the story when he's around. While watching my husband play without Anders around most of the time, it really hits me how much dialogue he adds. Anders pipes up in a lot of different missions. I always figured other companions would say something if Anders wasn't there, but a lot of times, no one says anything. Plus, Anders does things like momentarily clear Bartrand's head during Varric's quest.

So, even if you don't like him, I think he's worth having around for all that he adds to the story. Of course, I'm definitely biased. As it is, it's part of the reason I like not playing as a mage, because then Anders gets to jump in and do all the magic things my warrior can't do. Oh, plus I giggle over how excited Anders gets in battle. At least on the 360, he's one of the only ones I actually hear say anything during a fight.

[shiba5]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I do think Anders adds a lot to the story when he's around. While watching my husband play without Anders around most of the time, it really hits me how much dialogue he adds. Anders pipes up in a lot of different missions. I always figured other companions would say something if Anders wasn't there, but a lot of times, no one says anything. Plus, Anders does things like momentarily clear Bartrand's head during Varric's quest.

So, even if you don't like him, I think he's worth having around for all that he adds to the story. Of course, I'm definitely biased. As it is, it's part of the reason I like not playing as a mage, because then Anders gets to jump in and do all the magic things my warrior can't do. Oh, plus I giggle over how excited Anders gets in battle. At least on the 360, he's one of the only ones I actually hear say anything during a fight.

He really wants someone to suck on his fireball.

[Lasien]

Question:

If you kill justice or don't accept him into your group in DA:O~A, how does DA2 work around that, if anders never even met him?

[SurelyForth]

Lasien wrote...

Question:

If you kill justice or don't accept him into your group in DA:O~A, how does DA2 work around that, if anders never even met him?

Hmm...this is a good question. My guess is that it's not covered at all. Doesn't Justice always get sent into Kristoff's body, even if you side with the Baroness in the Fade? I know I've done that once, but I cannot recall if he shows up then.

If you don't recruit them, he's still kicking around the Blackmarsh, so it's kinda feasible that he and Anders could meet independently of the Wardens. However, considering BW doesn't cover the other angle, which is Anders not being recruited or being given back to the templars before he meets Justice, I doubt they've even bothered to come up with such a scenario, let alone account for it in DA2.

[MG800]

Lasien wrote...

Question:

If you kill justice or don't accept him into your group in DA:O~A, how does DA2 work around that, if anders never even met him?

It's Magic!
Bioware's magic.
Don't think too hard about it  
Besides Leliana and Zevran have a hard time dying too.

[YamiSnuffles]

Lasien wrote...

Question:

If you kill justice or don't accept him into your group in DA:O~A, how does DA2 work around that, if anders never even met him?

I don't know the definitive answer myself since I don't have an import like this. However, I would assume they just hand wave it the same way they do with Anders. If you don't recruit Anders, or let the Templars take him, he just ends up getting recruited later by a different group of Wardens. So I assume with Justice, if he wasn't recruited, then someone else ends up recruiting him or he ends up meeting Anders anyhow. If you kill him, it would be like any other DAO character that gets killed and comes back (Leliana and Anders) and there would be some excuse about him not really being dead. I mean, he is a possessed corpse. It's not too hard to believe that he's not really dead if you kill him or he could take over another body.

That said, as Surely mentioned, I doubt it's covered in game or anything.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 18 avril 2011 - 02:36 .

[upsettingshorts]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Well there's his problem. He's playing DA2 wrong. You should always want to have Anders in your team.

The fact he's the only healer apart from mage Hawke is incredibly irritating.

Oh, you were talking about his character being cool.

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

Lasien wrote...

Question:

If you kill justice or don't accept him into your group in DA:O~A, how does DA2 work around that, if anders never even met him?

Hmm...this is a good question. My guess is that it's not covered at all. Doesn't Justice always get sent into Kristoff's body, even if you side with the Baroness in the Fade? I know I've done that once, but I cannot recall if he shows up then.

If you don't recruit them, he's still kicking around the Blackmarsh, so it's kinda feasible that he and Anders could meet independently of the Wardens. However, considering BW doesn't cover the other angle, which is Anders not being recruited or being given back to the templars before he meets Justice, I doubt they've even bothered to come up with such a scenario, let alone account for it in DA2.

I thought I saw somewhere that Gaider said he would have met another spirit of justice.  I could be making that up.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Well there's his problem. He's playing DA2 wrong. You should always want to have Anders in your team.

The fact he's the only healer apart from mage Hawke is incredibly irritating.

Oh, you were talking about his character being cool.

That is a bit of a pain.

I wonder if it would be lore-breaking to have some kind of blood magic based healing spell? In maybe a special chop-your-arm-off-give-the-HP-to-your-team way.

I've been bringing Merrill around instead of Anders hoping she could destroy things faster than I would need healing and that's not the case all the time. I love me some Anders but he hasn't left my party until now and I want to hear some other banter :B

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 18 avril 2011 - 02:49 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Well there's his problem. He's playing DA2 wrong. You should always want to have Anders in your team.

The fact he's the only healer apart from mage Hawke is incredibly irritating.

Oh, you were talking about his character being cool.

That is a bit of a pain.

I wonder if it would be lore-breaking to have some kind of blood magic based healing spell? In maybe a special chop-your-arm-off-give-the-HP-to-your-team way.

I've been bringing Merrill around instead of Anders hoping she could destroy things faster than I would need healing and that's not the case all the time. I love me some Anders but he hasn't left my party until now and I want to hear some other banter :B

Considering everything else that they tweaked in this game, I don't see why they couldn't have done something like that. Or just allowed Merrill to have healing spells. I don't see why blood mage and healer can't both exist, seeing as Wynne could be made both.

[silver-crescent]

I think the whole Anders being the only healer thing might have been a way to get people to take him along through most of the game (though oddly enough, on my second playthrough I found out healing isn't really necessary, the potions are kinda overpowered), as he is the most plot-relevant companion. The chantry boom boom probably wouldn't have as much impact if you just left him in his clinic most of the game.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

I think the fact that he's the ONLY Big Damn Healer and nearly gamebreaking with awesome skills... and also a catty paranoid schizophrenic terrorist... is kind of funny. Several good reasons not to want anything to do with him! Too bad you need him trololol. Raidennnn *blows the ipgd whistle*

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 18 avril 2011 - 02:57 .

[purplecookie]

Threeparts wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

I don't get this "you're not the hero" business. You're so totally the hero. As far as there is any hero. I mean, the story wouldn't HAPPEN without you. It would be two short acts of brutality then QUNARI TAKE OVER KIRKWALL.

I think what they wanted to show was that even a hero can't change the course of events sometimes. And on that note, bed for me.

...I always make posts that I want to discuss right before bed. Will book mark this post and see what comes of it .

To me, Hawke is the hero in a story that doesn't really have any heroes. He's more a protagonist who sometimes performs acts that could be looked upon, in the right light, as heroic. But even then, it's not necessary. You don't have to fight the Qunari to save Kirkwall, after all: handing over Isabela saves everyone a lot of trouble and prevents more people than necessary from being injured, but is it something a hero would do?

And, of course, Hawke's own story is really the story of other people. The basis for Act I is really the only time he's doing something for himself - going on the expedition to make some money to protect and feed his family. The rest of the game isn't about Hawke, it's about the lives that he changes and the things other people want him to do, for good or ill.

Hawke also doesn't seem to really suffer the consequences of his actions, even when other people do. It doesn't matter to Hawke if you kill or arrest Kester, it only matters to Lia and the magistrate. It doesn't hurt Hawke if Feynriel becomes Tranquil or runs to Tevinter, but it changes things for the boy and his family.

The companion quests are the only ones that really change this up, and only in that they affect how the companions as individuals treat you. No one but Aveline is affected if you refuse to do The Long Road, for instance - the other companions aren't outraged that you refuse to run errands for a friend, even if Aveline herself is. When you do assist them, you're still not the focus of the attention: you're just a player in their story, rather than vice versa like people might expect.

It goes back to the average joe thing I've been harping on about, but I can see how some people resent not being the focus of the attention. I like playing a member of this Kirkwall clique, but in many ways Hawke's just not that important. There was a conversation a while ago about characters mistakenly believing they're in a high fantasy story when it's actually low fantasy, and I think that may go for some of the disappointed players as well.

I want to keep writing, but there are teal deer leaping across my screen already.  

I think perhaps the way the game was marketed could also be attributed to some people's disappointment that Hawke is seen as a hugely important person that played a pivotal role in a world-changing event - yes Hawke played an important role, but the final events of Act 3 have to be put down to more being a team-effort, with certain members of the team taking a certain initiative without Hawke being directly involved...  For me, I loved that, I loved that not everything is determined by Hawke and why should it be? It adds a level of realism (admittedly to a game where there are elves, dwarves, demons and magic) that makes for better immersion and engagement in the story. I really enjoyed playing Origins (I've played it an embarrassing number of times) but while I always maxed out my persuasion so I could sweet talk characters into doing what I wanted (dance puppets dance!), that does lack the realism that DA2 offers that, ya know, sometimes you just can't determine everything. It really does emphasise that Hawke is just someone who is thrown into a situation (hello Blight) and tries to make a life for themselves and their family afterwards, getting caught up in the politics of the city (whether willingly or not) and dealing with the repercussions of that, be that personal or relevant to the whole city. The times when Hawke is given the deciding role on some of the bigger issues... doesn't quite work at times for me (it just irks that, when the Qunari are attacking, that Meredith would take Hawke's lead, yes he/she is a noble at this point, but Meredith is the knight-commander...) as that seems not in keeping with the flow of the game.

Anyway, I'm rambling now , back to Anders *looks to The Smirk at the top of the page*  man I love that sexy mage

[upsettingshorts]

Although, on sub-Nightmare difficulties you don't really need a dedicated healer at all. That being said... there's almost no redundancy at all save possibly for warriors, as 2H makes a more than adequate tank. And Sebastian - being DLC - as well as your siblings - available for a short time - don't really count.

silver-crescent wrote...

I think the whole Anders being the only healer thing might have been a way to get people to take him along through most of the game

The fact that his natural foil, Fenris, has no such unique capability compounds his ineffectiveness as a counter to Anders' in shaping the player's view of the mage/Templar dispute. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 03:01 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

I like that it makes you think more about who you bring along but there did come a point where I wanted to bench someone or another just to change things up. You find your perfect team and that was it at least for me.

I just play on Normal but I'm not a pro at tactics or anything so it's been interesting trying to play without Anders and also not die. I was pleasantly surprised by Merrill when I specced her properly. She is a death machine

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 18 avril 2011 - 03:02 .

[YamiSnuffles]

I dunno. I can see why people might be annoyed but it didn't bother me because it played out the same way DA:O did. My warrior always had Wynne and Leliana because I never made Morrigan a healer and never made Zevran a good lock picker. And now because of my obsessiveness over unlocking things, I always have Varric with my warrior as designated lock picker, since I don't bother to make Isabela great at that. So being stuck with Anders as my only healer never bothered me more than having to drag Wynne everywhere.

[nekhbet]

 

+



=



I can't believe this combo wasn't posted yet.

Modifié par nekhbet, 18 avril 2011 - 03:10 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Being 'stuck with Anders' though means being stuck with a character a lot of people perceive as whiny, paranoid, hostile, dangerous, obnoxious etc etc.

Paranoid and dangerous though are uh, accurate...

Edit: Not to mention hypocritical.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 18 avril 2011 - 03:11 .

[Threeparts]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

I think the whole Anders being the only healer thing might have been a way to get people to take him along through most of the game

The fact that his natural foil, Fenris, has no such unique capability compounds his ineffectiveness as a counter to Anders' in shaping the player's view of the mage/Templar dispute.

In a way Anders almost has three different foils in Fenris, Aveline and Sebastian. All three represent ideals he's fighting against (Fenris as the common man who fears magic, Aveline as a defender of law and order, and Sebastian as a devout supporter of the Chantry) and all three tend to have interesting perspectives on events that almost always contrast with Anders'.

Anders has, in some ways, been thrust into the spotlight at the expense of other characters, and I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that he's The Healer is reflective of that. The story is more his than anyone else's, so it would make sense to encourage people to have him in the party as often as possible by giving him such important talents. That he's not the most likable character undermines that and I can understand why people would feel his inclusion is forced.