57020 réponses à ce sujet

[YamiSnuffles]

thenyxie wrote...

That must be what it means. Being a mage=fabulousity.

That threw me the whole time. I was like, "Huh? Sebastian in that role?" If it'd been Meredith I would have lol'd. For some reason that strikes me as hilarious.

Yeah, I always imagined that scene with Orsino and Meredith. Meredith is wigging out, Orsino says "This is Madness!" and then Meredith goes all, "This. Is. Kirkall!" It would also work with Hawke. Have Hawke complain about how everything pretty much ever is madness in this game. Then whoever happens to be nearby could kick Hawke in a ditch and remind her she's in Kirkwall.

Uh-oh, top. Um.... FREEEEEEEEDOM!

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 18 avril 2011 - 05:16 .

[nekhbet]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Blasted mages.

/Backnextweek

I think he likes us.<3

[meonlyred]

nekhbet wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...
Makes me want to replay Awakening and go feed Justice to the Queen of the Blackmarsh

Can you actually play it so that you kill Justice? It's been ages since I played those scenes in Awakening...

I believe you can stab him when he first inhabitants Krisoff's body. In my ending of Awakening Justice 'died' during the siege of Vigil's Keep. I think the point is Justice is stuck and can't get back to the fade.

[Sialater]

I'm not really sure I understand the Justice hate. Anders is at fault, too.

[thebrute7]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

That must be what it means. Being a mage=fabulousity.

That threw me the whole time. I was like, "Huh? Sebastian in that role?" If it'd been Meredith I would have lol'd. For some reason that strikes me as hilarious.

Yeah, I always imagined that scene with Orsino and Meredith. Meredith is wigging out, Orsino says "This is Madness!" and then Meredith goes all, "This. Is. Kirkall!" It would also work with Hawke. Have Hawke complain about how everything pretty much ever is madness in this game. Then whoever happens to be nearby could kick Hawke in a ditch and remind her she's in Kirkwall.

Uh-oh, top. Um.... FREEEEEEEEDOM!
*snip for awesome FREEEEEEEEDOM!*

I completely agree.  This is Kirkwall, where every nutsy thing possible happens on a regular basis.

[nyxocity]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

That must be what it means. Being a mage=fabulousity.

That threw me the whole time. I was like, "Huh? Sebastian in that role?" If it'd been Meredith I would have lol'd. For some reason that strikes me as hilarious.

Yeah, I always imagined that scene with Orsino and Meredith. Meredith is wigging out, Orsino says "This is Madness!" and then Meredith goes all, "This. Is. Kirkall!" It would also work with Hawke. Have Hawke complain about how everything pretty much ever is madness in this game. Then whoever happens to be nearby could kick Hawke in a ditch and remind her she's in Kirkwall.

I love the idea about the last bit with Hawke. "This is madness!" Well, duh, bonehead, it's Kirkwall.

[Tasmen]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

THIS. IS. SEBINAAAAAAA.

Hahahah.  I you.

[Nilfalasiel]

Sialater wrote...

I'm not really sure I understand the Justice hate. Anders is at fault, too.

Yes, that's true, but I do get the impression that, had Justice not swayed Anders into accepting him as a host, he might never have drummed up the courage to do anything about the mages' situation on his own. Or at least, he might've been less *RAGE!* about it.

You are right in the sense that Justice turns into Vengeance because of Anders' feelings about the mage situation, but I can't shake the impression that had Justice left well enough alone, things might have turned out very differently.

I don't exactly hate Justice. I was actually quite fond of him in Awakening. But whenever I think about him now, it makes me feel very bitter.

That being said, I have no idea whether you can "kill" him in Awakening or not. I've only played it once, and he lived, since I needed a tank and therefore took him with me against the Mother. I mentioned feeding him to the Queen of the Blackmarsh because she's the first thing I fought after recruiting him. By semi-accident, actually.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 18 avril 2011 - 05:39 .

[Jean]

I'm curious who first spoke up the idea of possession.

Anders: Justice bro pal, I wish there was something I could do to help you. I really do.

Justice: Wellll...

But really I'm sure Anders would be crazy enough to speak up with it with the idea of "It seemed like a good idea at the time!"

[thebrute7]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I'm not really sure I understand the Justice hate. Anders is at fault, too.

Yes, that's true, but I do get the impression that, had Justice not swayed Anders into accepting him as a host, he might never have drummed up the courage to do anything about the mages' situation on his own. Or at least, he might've been less *RAGE!* about it.

You are right in the sense that Justice turns into Vengeance because of Anders' feelings about the mage situation, but I can't shake the impression that had Justice left well enough alone, things might have turned out very differently.

I don't exactly hate Justice. I was actually quite fond of him in Awakening. But whenever I think about him now, it makes me feel very bitter.

That being said, I have no idea whether you can "kill" him in Awakening or not. I've only played it once, and he lived, since I needed a tank and therefore took him with me against the Mother. I mentioned feeding him to the Queen of the Blackmarsh because she's the first thing I fought after recruiting him. By semi-accident, actually.

I think they are both at fault, Justice as he was would never have gone to blowing up chantries I think, and Anders without Justice probably would never have gotten the motivation to do anything, so it's really both of their faults.  Anders' rage changed Justice, and Justice's need for action changed Anders.

Of course I still think that the old Justice may exist in there somewhere.  Justice seems to be Vengeance when confronted by the injustices that Anders' rage comes out at most strongly.  So I wonder if when confronted with other injustices, Justice would come out as Justice rather than as Vengeance?  Maybe Justice isn't entirely gone yet?  Just a thought

[nyxocity]

So... maybe I've lost too many hours of sleep playing this game, because last night during "Following the Qun" I was drawing major parallels between Mother Petrice's actions throughout as compared to Anders' in the end. I know the causes are different, but when I started trying to see how what she did was different, I really couldn't. Killing of some innocents? Check. Passionate about her beliefs? Check. Fighting for a cause? Check. Trying to push a war between two factions based on those beliefs by killing innocents? Check.

Have I really just lost that much sleep, or does that make some kind of crazy sense? Because I always hated her, but I could never bring myself to hate Anders. Which would make me a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

Modifié par thenyxie, 18 avril 2011 - 05:46 .

[shiba5]

Batteries wrote...

I'm curious who first spoke up the idea of possession.

Anders: Justice bro pal, I wish there was something I could do to help you. I really do.

Justice: Wellll...

But really I'm sure Anders would be crazy enough to speak up with it with the idea of "It seemed like a good idea at the time!"

Kristoff was probably starting to smell reeeeallly bad.

[LastFadingSmile]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I'm not really sure I understand the Justice hate. Anders is at fault, too.

Yes, that's true, but I do get the impression that, had Justice not swayed Anders into accepting him as a host, he might never have drummed up the courage to do anything about the mages' situation on his own. Or at least, he might've been less *RAGE!* about it.

You are right in the sense that Justice turns into Vengeance because of Anders' feelings about the mage situation, but I can't shake the impression that had Justice left well enough alone, things might have turned out very differently.

I don't exactly hate Justice. I was actually quite fond of him in Awakening. But whenever I think about him now, it makes me feel very bitter.

When you look at the banter in Awakening, you could argue Nathaniel has as hand in what happens to Justice and Anders as well. Nate plants the idea in Justice's head that it might be acceptable, and not demonic, to inhabit a willing, living host, for the good of a common goal.

If I took one thing away from everything that happened in DA2 and the lead up to it, it's that a lot of smart people made a lot of really ****ing stupid decisions in the name of good intentions. >.<

[thebrute7]

thenyxie wrote...

So... maybe I've lost too many hours of sleep playing this game, because last night during "Following the Qun" I was drawing major parallels between Mother Petrice's actions throughout as compared to Anders' in the end. I know the causes are different, but when I started trying to see how what she did was different, I really couldn't. Killing of some innocents? Check. Passionate about her beliefs? Check. Fighting for a cause? Check. Trying to push a war between two factions based on those beliefs? Check.

Have I really just lost that much sleep, or does that make some kind of crazy sense? Because I always hated her, but I could never bring myself to hate Anders. Which would make me a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

There are some significant parallels there...  But not hating Anders doesn't make you a hypocrite, I don't think anyway?  I mean, I am pretty sure none of us approve of either of their actions do we?  Petrice is just a *****.  And not very friendly.  Whereas Anders has his awesome sexy tortured look that our Hawkes all fell for.

[Poetics124]

Threeparts wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

 *snip*

Sorry Anders' fans. Don't go all mage on me for posting this.

Why not? Isn't that why you posted it in the first place?

You crack me up with your coming in here once a week or so to post pictures you think will get an angry reaction out of us. It's almost adorable. 

You know what the funniest part of that comic is? Sebastian actually showing some spine. Heeee-larious.

This is why I couldn't take his threat of burning down Kirkwall seriously.  

Anders is right there.  Why do you need Hawke to kill him?   Get your bow out and do it!

*pauses*  That went unfortunate places. 

[thebrute7]

Kolotosa wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I'm not really sure I understand the Justice hate. Anders is at fault, too.

Yes, that's true, but I do get the impression that, had Justice not swayed Anders into accepting him as a host, he might never have drummed up the courage to do anything about the mages' situation on his own. Or at least, he might've been less *RAGE!* about it.

You are right in the sense that Justice turns into Vengeance because of Anders' feelings about the mage situation, but I can't shake the impression that had Justice left well enough alone, things might have turned out very differently.

I don't exactly hate Justice. I was actually quite fond of him in Awakening. But whenever I think about him now, it makes me feel very bitter.

When you look at the banter in Awakening, you could argue Nathaniel has as hand in what happens to Justice and Anders as well. Nate plants the idea in Justice's head that it might be acceptable, and not demonic, to inhabit a willing, living host, for the good of a common goal.

If I took one thing away from everything that happened in DA2 and the lead up to it, it's that a lot of smart people made a lot of really ****ing stupid decisions in the name of good intentions. >.<

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Sad but true I am afraid.

[YamiSnuffles]

thenyxie wrote...

So... maybe I've lost too many hours of sleep playing this game, because last night during "Following the Qun" I was drawing major parallels between Mother Petrice's actions throughout as compared to Anders' in the end. I know the causes are different, but when I started trying to see how what she did was different, I really couldn't. Killing of some innocents? Check. Passionate about her beliefs? Check. Fighting for a cause? Check. Trying to push a war between two factions based on those beliefs by killing innocents? Check.

Have I really just lost that much sleep, or does that make some kind of crazy sense? Because I always hated her, but I could never bring myself to hate Anders. Which would make me a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

I think, for me, the difference lies in why they were doing what they were doing. Anders was fighting to free a people from opression. He wants the same rights and freedoms for mages that everyone else has. Petrice, on the other hand, is fighting to keep the Chantry in control. She is threatened by the fact that people are leaving the Chantry for the Qun.

So, they were both fighting for a cause, but the cause they are fighting for is what changes my opinion. Oh, that and Petrice seemed to revel in what she was doing and never seemed to regret a single innocent life lost. Anders, meanwhile, seemed really weighed by the choices he had to make.

That's my take on it, anyway. I'm not great at expressing my thoughts, so hopefully someone else offers a better explanation.

[nekhbet]

I can't hate Justice for being what he is: a spirit with a very limited agenda. It sounds very nice to a mortal mind, justice and all that jazz, but it's really hardcore JUSTICE you get when you deal with what is basically an ideal of justice.

[SurelyForth]

thenyxie wrote...

So... maybe I've lost too many hours of sleep playing this game, because last night during "Following the Qun" I was drawing major parallels between Mother Petrice's actions throughout as compared to Anders' in the end. I know the causes are different, but when I started trying to see how what she did was different, I really couldn't. Killing of some innocents? Check. Passionate about her beliefs? Check. Fighting for a cause? Check. Trying to push a war between two factions based on those beliefs by killing innocents? Check.

Have I really just lost that much sleep, or does that make some kind of crazy sense? Because I always hated her, but I could never bring myself to hate Anders. Which would make me a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

It makes sense.

Where Petrice is different to me is how she sacrificing others, "lessers", left and right while remaining completely unwlling to accept any real blame or responsibility. Anders isn't framing Hawke (or anyone else) the way Petrice does and he ensures that everyone knows who is at fault by being present when the bomb goes off, and taking the full blame on himself.

Plus, he's not nearly as sneery. That has to count for something.

(also, I love Petrice in my own way...if only because Hawke is so clearly exasperated by her)

Modifié par SurelyForth, 18 avril 2011 - 05:56 .

[nyxocity]

thebrute7 wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

So... maybe I've lost too many hours of sleep playing this game, because last night during "Following the Qun" I was drawing major parallels between Mother Petrice's actions throughout as compared to Anders' in the end. I know the causes are different, but when I started trying to see how what she did was different, I really couldn't. Killing of some innocents? Check. Passionate about her beliefs? Check. Fighting for a cause? Check. Trying to push a war between two factions based on those beliefs? Check.

Have I really just lost that much sleep, or does that make some kind of crazy sense? Because I always hated her, but I could never bring myself to hate Anders. Which would make me a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

There are some significant parallels there...  But not hating Anders doesn't make you a hypocrite, I don't think anyway?  I mean, I am pretty sure none of us approve of either of their actions do we?  Petrice is just a *****.  And not very friendly.  Whereas Anders has his awesome sexy tortured look that our Hawkes all fell for.

None of my Hawke's so far have approved exactly, so much as been like, well, maybe this is what it's going to take in the end. Fair points. She was a *****. But I do think this Hawke will sympathize with her more in retrospect.

I'm just amazed at all the foreshadowing/parallels I'm STILL finding on my third PT. A couple nights ago, Bodahn mentioned how "Anders finds my boy's enchanting fascinating" and I connected the dots between Sandal=things go boom, Anders=Chantry go boom.

[Poetics124]

thebrute7 wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

So... maybe I've lost too many hours of sleep playing this game, because last night during "Following the Qun" I was drawing major parallels between Mother Petrice's actions throughout as compared to Anders' in the end. I know the causes are different, but when I started trying to see how what she did was different, I really couldn't. Killing of some innocents? Check. Passionate about her beliefs? Check. Fighting for a cause? Check. Trying to push a war between two factions based on those beliefs? Check.

Have I really just lost that much sleep, or does that make some kind of crazy sense? Because I always hated her, but I could never bring myself to hate Anders. Which would make me a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

There are some significant parallels there...  But not hating Anders doesn't make you a hypocrite, I don't think anyway?  I mean, I am pretty sure none of us approve of either of their actions do we?  Petrice is just a *****.  And not very friendly.  Whereas Anders has his awesome sexy tortured look that our Hawkes all fell for.

I also think one of the major difference, and it color my view of both of them, is that Patrice is in a position of power and Anders is so not.  Petrice is first a sister, then a mother, in one of the most powerful Chantries in the Free Marches.  Her actions aren't about freedom, or having her sisters and brothers being tranquiled, killed, beaten, or raped as much as it was about this alien race bring their alien religion to Kirkwall.  Petrice does her scheming out of a sense of xenophobia and malice.   It is a different feeling from Anders, who does his act out of his own desparation and at the urging on of spirit who has a hard time taking no for an answer.

Similarities, yes.  But, in my personal opinion, different circumstances and motivations.

[cleosilver]

Kolotosa wrote...


When you look at the banter in Awakening, you could argue Nathaniel has a hand in what happens to Justice and Anders as well. Nate plants the idea in Justice's head that it might be acceptable, and not demonic, to inhabit a willing, living host, for the good of a common goal.

When I got that banter in the game Anders was right next to them listening in.

[Ryzaki]

nekhbet wrote...

I can't hate Justice for being what he is: a spirit with a very limited agenda. It sounds very nice to a mortal mind, justice and all that jazz, but it's really hardcore JUSTICE you get when you deal with what is basically an ideal of justice.

I dunno I may not like Elthina but I think she was pretty dead on with her "Death is never Justice." 

And I say that as someone who is pro the death penalty. 

And yeah Anders is pretty similar to Peatrice. I guess it's why I want to strangle him for blowing up the Chantry. Way to completely destroy any goodwill you may have had Anders. Mages can not be free on their own not the way you seem to want. It'll only lead to another Tevinter Imperium or the mages being back in the Circles but under harsher rule than before. 

And he uses Hawke just like Peatrice does. The only good thing is at least he wasn't banking on Hawke being killed like Peatrice was. Though I have little doubt at that point if he thought it would help the mage cause even a smidge he would've been perfectly willing to do it. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 avril 2011 - 05:59 .

[highcastle]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

So... maybe I've lost too many hours of sleep playing this game, because last night during "Following the Qun" I was drawing major parallels between Mother Petrice's actions throughout as compared to Anders' in the end. I know the causes are different, but when I started trying to see how what she did was different, I really couldn't. Killing of some innocents? Check. Passionate about her beliefs? Check. Fighting for a cause? Check. Trying to push a war between two factions based on those beliefs by killing innocents? Check.

Have I really just lost that much sleep, or does that make some kind of crazy sense? Because I always hated her, but I could never bring myself to hate Anders. Which would make me a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

I think, for me, the difference lies in why they were doing what they were doing. Anders was fighting to free a people from opression. He wants the same rights and freedoms for mages that everyone else has. Petrice, on the other hand, is fighting to keep the Chantry in control. She is threatened by the fact that people are leaving the Chantry for the Qun.

So, they were both fighting for a cause, but the cause they are fighting for is what changes my opinion. Oh, that and Petrice seemed to revel in what she was doing and never seemed to regret a single innocent life lost. Anders, meanwhile, seemed really weighed by the choices he had to make.

That's my take on it, anyway. I'm not great at expressing my thoughts, so hopefully someone else offers a better explanation.

Pretty much this. Anders' principle was about freedom for everyone. Petrice had idealogical differences related to religion. There was no "greater good" involved. That being said, they both used extreme methods to accomplish their goals. But I find Anders' goals more sympathetic, which is what probably makes me not condone his actions but understand them. It's also what makes him tragic to me, while Petrice I view as a zealous nut.

I think the parrallels are there for a reason, though. I think they exist to make us ask, Are these tactics ever acceptable? If so, where do we draw the line? I was re-reading V for Vendetta in my 20th Century British Lit class recently, and it asks the same types of questions. You see characters with different motives and goals acting in similar ways, but some are deemed sympathetic and other heinous. Should they be? Is there a time where doing terrible things becomes, for lack of a better word, justified? I don't know. I think these are the types of questions that are uncomfortable to ask because we might not want to hear the answer.

[Poetics124]

thenyxie wrote...

thebrute7 wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

So... maybe I've lost too many hours of sleep playing this game, because last night during "Following the Qun" I was drawing major parallels between Mother Petrice's actions throughout as compared to Anders' in the end. I know the causes are different, but when I started trying to see how what she did was different, I really couldn't. Killing of some innocents? Check. Passionate about her beliefs? Check. Fighting for a cause? Check. Trying to push a war between two factions based on those beliefs? Check.

Have I really just lost that much sleep, or does that make some kind of crazy sense? Because I always hated her, but I could never bring myself to hate Anders. Which would make me a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

There are some significant parallels there...  But not hating Anders doesn't make you a hypocrite, I don't think anyway?  I mean, I am pretty sure none of us approve of either of their actions do we?  Petrice is just a *****.  And not very friendly.  Whereas Anders has his awesome sexy tortured look that our Hawkes all fell for.

None of my Hawke's so far have approved exactly, so much as been like, well, maybe this is what it's going to take in the end. Fair points. She was a *****. But I do think this Hawke will sympathize with her more in retrospect.

I'm just amazed at all the foreshadowing/parallels I'm STILL finding on my third PT. A couple nights ago, Bodahn mentioned how "Anders finds my boy's enchanting fascinating" and I connected the dots between Sandal=things go boom, Anders=Chantry go boom.

I really like it because it tells you how all of this comes to Anders mind and that companions are paying attention to events and reacting to them just as much as you are.   The Quanri gun powder.  Kerras' remarks about the right of annulment.  Leliana's assertion that the Divine is going to move on Kirkwall.  Sandal's enchantment. 

All of that is going through Anders head until the chantry goes boom.