57020 réponses à ce sujet

[YamiSnuffles]

My duel would have been more like...

Varric: Hawke screamed, 'Maker dammit Anders- heal meeeeee! I don't care if this is a duel. Why don't you love me anymore?! Why are you just watching while he impales me?!' And then she continued to sob while hacking blindly at the Arishok.


EDIT: Fffffffffff..... top.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 18 avril 2011 - 08:45 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Have I told you lately that I love this thread beyond all measure? :-)

[LastFadingSmile]

On his last playthrough, my boyfriend forgot to buy health potions before the Qunari invasion started. He was playing a sword and shield warrior, specced templar/reaver, and to that point had needed very little in the way of healing, so he became pretty lax.

The dual happens, and the Arishok is tearing through him like he's made of paper, as Arishoks are wont to do. He sucked down all 8 of his health potions in pretty short order. Devour is pretty weak on a s&s warrior, and his damage was pretty crap to boot. He ended up spending 45 minutes running in circles with nothing but natural regen and pure freaking luck to keep him alive.

I don't think he's played that character since, come to think of it...

[CatOfEvilGenius]

Addai67 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

So... maybe I've lost too many hours of sleep playing this game, because last night during "Following the Qun" I was drawing major parallels between Mother Petrice's actions throughout as compared to Anders' in the end. I know the causes are different, but when I started trying to see how what she did was different, I really couldn't. Killing of some innocents? Check. Passionate about her beliefs? Check. Fighting for a cause? Check. Trying to push a war between two factions based on those beliefs by killing innocents? Check.

Have I really just lost that much sleep, or does that make some kind of crazy sense? Because I always hated her, but I could never bring myself to hate Anders. Which would make me a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

Petrice's actions are driven by her own racism and prejudice.

Anders' actions are driven by his oppression and prejudice against him and his group.  Now... if an elf or a qunari had done the same things, that would be an accurate parallel.

Not if you consider that the Qunari have and still do forcibly convert people and represent a menace to Andrastian lands.

I see two big differences between Anders and Petrice.  Anders understands his actions are wrong, while Petrice doesn't, and is actually shocked when Elthina doesn't support her.  Anders at his worst is hopped up on Justice.  Petrice is always lucid and acting completely of her own free will.  The parallels thenyxie brought up are definitely there though.

[nyxocity]

Varric: And after Hawke died, a strange message appeared that said something about "Turning down the combat difficulty", and a very distant voice dripping sarcasm said; "Thanks, but I can't turn it down any lower than Casual."

[CatOfEvilGenius]

shiba5 wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...
I loved when Cassandra totally gets a crush on Hawke if Hawke has a duel with the Arishok. She gets such a dreamy look on her face, it makes me giggle.

I only did that on my first PT (most ridiculous battle I've ever fought in my life), and I wasn't paying much attention to Cassandra's expression beyond her surprise. I need to see that clip again. And it's not going to happen on my mage PT, alas.

Seriously, I was expecting Cassandra to be more like "Wow, how very not impressive.  The Arishok chased the Champion in circles for an hour while she squealed and occasionally stabbed at him with a dagger, while her mabari chewed on his butt?"

Think of how impressed she would have been with my battle. I got bored and killed him with a console command. Hand of god and all that... a-hem.

In my husband's playthrough, the Arishok suddenly slipped on a casual setting that someone had just carelessly left lying on the floor.

My Arishok duel was just like leggywillow's Yami's, with me occasionally screaming "The Arishok has healing potions?!?!  WTF!?  I'm going to dieeeeeeee!"

Modifié par CatOfEvilGenius, 18 avril 2011 - 08:55 .

[nyxocity]

Kolotosa wrote...

On his last playthrough, my boyfriend forgot to buy health potions before the Qunari invasion started. He was playing a sword and shield warrior, specced templar/reaver, and to that point had needed very little in the way of healing, so he became pretty lax.

The dual happens, and the Arishok is tearing through him like he's made of paper, as Arishoks are wont to do. He sucked down all 8 of his health potions in pretty short order. Devour is pretty weak on a s&s warrior, and his damage was pretty crap to boot. He ended up spending 45 minutes running in circles with nothing but natural regen and pure freaking luck to keep him alive.

I don't think he's played that character since, come to think of it...

I had to respec my entire warrior character for the final time I did that battle, and become a reaver/berserker. Granted, it was was my first PT and unspoiled, so I had screwed up my alloting for slots and needed to respec anyway. I was doing 2H and it still took me 20 minutes. My rogue, for as much of a BAMF he is any other time didn't last beyond a couple minutes.

[Amondra]

Yenaquai wrote...

Come to think of it, I would really love to know the legend of Hawke, and how much it differs from the "truth" Varric told Cassandra. (You know, he could have made a lot of stuff up as well to protect his friends, to gloss over details, to hide something)

When I first played through DA2 and saw the endcredits roll I asked myself why I played the character Hawke, and not Anders, as he clearly - in the end - is the one character who sets everything in motion and the whole game builds up just for THIS ONE KABOOM-MOMENT.
Besides his direct conflict with the Chantry would have made a great game in itself. You know.. playing a character that let a spirit take residence in his body who fights for the justice of mages, constantly hiding from the templars. And let's not forget that he is in an everlasting struggle with the spirit/demon in him.
Mind you, it might not be an RPG, but it would be great fuel for a game/story.

But now I believe that the story of the Champion must be quite different to what we experience in the game. - And shifting, as there are multiple outcomes. The whole concept of the framed narrative leaves so much unanswered, so many questions.

For all we know Varric could have told an elaborate lie and in the next game it turns out that nothing of what he said was true.
Even though it would be a nasty move on the devs' side they could pretty much change anything and declare it canon just because Varric is not the most reliable storyteller.

I have often wondered that myself.  As I have said before the game at times seems like it is really not about Anders not my Hawke, and that I felt like a side character next to him.  also why my fanfiction took a more Anders centric roll.  

I also wondered outside the two scenes where Varric was clearly lying, how huch he twisted just enough to seem the truth, but giving away the hand he had. It would be something to see the game ended up being something like that.

I also like to think when everyone left leaves you, that they split up, to help cover your tracks, give the Chantry false trails and all the fun stuff.

[CatOfEvilGenius]

Kolotosa wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

He is even capable of jokes at this point, which really didn't seem in character at the start. Sometimes I wonder if it wasn't truly Justice's will that persuaded Anders to accept. Of course aided by the fact that Anders' was a bit easygoing on the matter and trusted him as a friend. But I wonder, really...

Justice was definitely starting to turn. His whole argument that what separates him from a demon is that he has no desires, and then he goes on about envying the memories and love that Kristoff shared with Aura, he asks the Warden for the ring of lyrium and covets it once he has it, and a million other things, while all of his traveling companions are like "so dude, this world is pretty righteous, huh? You should totally look for some way to make it more permanent because what could go wrong amirite lol no but seriously you should do that."

I don't doubt that Justice was pretty big on the corpsey puppy eyes when the subject came up with Anders, and Anders was receptive because hey, it's just like offering your friend a bite of your sandwich. Until your friend eats the whole thing. And also he's in your body now. Whoops.

Someone should explain this Anders, so he's not putting the blame entirely on himself and his anger.  Yay, it's not all Anders' fault!  Boo, everything that made Justice adorable was bad for him.  Now I'm happy/sad. :/

Modifié par CatOfEvilGenius, 18 avril 2011 - 09:00 .

[Dasha Dreyson]

<3<3<3<3

[nekhbet]

Lulz @ your Arishok battles.

On another topic, that started bugging me... What did Karl do to get tranq'd, anyway? Was it because he planned escaping? Why wasn't Grace, an escaped mage, traqn'd once they got him back if that's crime enough to get a brand on your forehead? Was he just a bait to get Anders? Does Orsino approve tranqs at the Kirkwall Circle like the First Enchanter does in Ferelden or is it all under templar control?

[ipgd]

Yenaquai wrote...

Come to think of it, I would really love to know the legend of Hawke, and how much it differs from the "truth" Varric told Cassandra. (You know, he could have made a lot of stuff up as well to protect his friends, to gloss over details, to hide something)

When I first played through DA2 and saw the endcredits roll I asked myself why I played the character Hawke, and not Anders, as he clearly - in the end - is the one character who sets everything in motion and the whole game builds up just for THIS ONE KABOOM-MOMENT.
Besides his direct conflict with the Chantry would have made a great game in itself. You know.. playing a character that let a spirit take residence in his body who fights for the justice of mages, constantly hiding from the templars. And let's not forget that he is in an everlasting struggle with the spirit/demon in him.
Mind you, it might not be an RPG, but it would be great fuel for a game/story.

But now I believe that the story of the Champion must be quite different to what we experience in the game. - And shifting, as there are multiple outcomes. The whole concept of the framed narrative leaves so much unanswered, so many questions.

For all we know Varric could have told an elaborate lie and in the next game it turns out that nothing of what he said was true.
Even though it would be a nasty move on the devs' side they could pretty much change anything and declare it canon just because Varric is not the most reliable storyteller.

Hawke is The Ishmael.

I am of the opinion that Anders is very much the main character of the story, but it really worked much better with an outside perspective. Getting into his head would be difficult for a roleplaying game, especially since so much of his character is built off the fact he isn't in complete control of himself. His character arc is definitely one that had to be spectated.

[LastFadingSmile]

nekhbet wrote...

Lulz @ your Arishok battles.

On another topic, that started bugging me... What did Karl do to get tranq'd, anyway? Was it because he planned escaping? Why wasn't Grace, an escaped mage, traqn'd once they got him back if that's crime enough to get a brand on your forehead? Was he just a bait to get Anders? Does Orsino approve tranqs at the Kirkwall Circle like the First Enchanter does in Ferelden or is it all under templar control?

When he regains himself, doesn't he say something about the Templars finding the letter he was writing to Anders? My impression was that it was dual purpose; punishment for conspiracy, and bait for Anders; and probably as much about punishing Anders as Karl himself.

I don't know about the chain of command with these things though. In the Circle in Ferelden I got the impression that it was a joint decision between the Templars and the First Enchanter, but lord knows protocol means nothing in Kirkwall. I want to believe they were being performed without Orsino's knowledge, much less his blessing.

Modifié par Kolotosa, 18 avril 2011 - 09:09 .

[YamiSnuffles]

nekhbet wrote...

Lulz @ your Arishok battles.

On another topic, that started bugging me... What did Karl do to get tranq'd, anyway? Was it because he planned escaping? Why wasn't Grace, an escaped mage, traqn'd once they got him back if that's crime enough to get a brand on your forehead? Was he just a bait to get Anders? Does Orsino approve tranqs at the Kirkwall Circle like the First Enchanter does in Ferelden or is it all under templar control?

I assume, in theory, Orsino has say over who gets made tranquil, but in practice, not so much. Considering all the mages that get made tranquil, it seems like any out of control Templar could carry it out. Also, though Grace wasn't made tranquil, Alain will comment that three of the Starkhaven mages were made tranquil (possibly at random, he says).

As for Karl, I think it was all part of the trap and not just punishment for Karl. They wanted to catch Anders and so they needed willing bait. Making him tranquil was the only way to make Karl willing bait. Karl himself was a dangerous influence for anyone who might also want to escape and Anders was dangerous as someone with the capability of communicating with and transporting Circle mages to freedom.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 18 avril 2011 - 09:09 .

[CatOfEvilGenius]

nekhbet wrote...

Lulz @ your Arishok battles.

On another topic, that started bugging me... What did Karl do to get tranq'd, anyway? Was it because he planned escaping? Why wasn't Grace, an escaped mage, traqn'd once they got him back if that's crime enough to get a brand on your forehead? Was he just a bait to get Anders? Does Orsino approve tranqs at the Kirkwall Circle like the First Enchanter does in Ferelden or is it all under templar control?

Ser Alrik tranq'd a mage for having an "inappropriate relationship", so I'm guessing they found the letters.  Anders bait is also a great reason, so probably both. 

Alrik was probably pushing for mor tranq'ing, and Thrask was probably protecting those he could.  He promised Hawke to look after Grace, right?  Maybe those two templars had somewhat separate "spheres of influence"?  If Alrik supervised your dorm, it sucked to be you, if Thrask did, it didn't, as much.

edit:
Orsino was surely against punitive and unnecessary tranq'ing, but as "spokesman for the prisoners", he didn't have nearly the power Irving did.

Modifié par CatOfEvilGenius, 18 avril 2011 - 09:12 .

[nyxocity]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

Lulz @ your Arishok battles.

On another topic, that started bugging me... What did Karl do to get tranq'd, anyway? Was it because he planned escaping? Why wasn't Grace, an escaped mage, traqn'd once they got him back if that's crime enough to get a brand on your forehead? Was he just a bait to get Anders? Does Orsino approve tranqs at the Kirkwall Circle like the First Enchanter does in Ferelden or is it all under templar control?

I assume, in theory, Orsino has say over who gets made tranquil, but in practice, not so much. Considering all the mages that get made tranquil, it seems like any out of control Templar could carry it out. Also, though Grace wasn't made tranquil, Alain will comment that three of the Starkhaven mages were made tranquil (possibly at random, he says).

As for Karl, I think it was all part of the trap and not just punishment for Karl. The wanted to catch Anders and so they needed willing bait. The only way to make Karl willing bait. Karl himself was a dangerous influence for anyone who might also want to escape and Anders was dangerous as someone with the capability of communicating with and transporting Circle mages to freedom.

See, this confuses me. Because obviously it was a trap set for Anders, and it happens early in the game... and yet, the Templars never come after him again. I'm still doing my first mage PT and got some shocks last night. Apparently you can talk to Cullen in Act II and he calls Anders a mage straight out during that conversation.

And on a semi-related note, on my way to fight the Arishok, Meredith showed up and killed the Sareebas that was kicking our butts, and was all, "I'll overlook your own obvious use of magic. For now."

All of which makes me go... if they've known since Act I that Anders and my Hawke are mages--and it seems they have--why let us run free all this time? Especially if they were hunting Anders prior to his meeting Hawke. Hawke was nobody in Act I, though admittedly helpful to the city in Act II.

ETA: Although I DID note Cullen's caveat to Anders about "do you know how hard it is to deal with mages that want to deal with demons?" Which gave me the impression that he didn't believe Anders and Hawke were those kinds of mages.

Modifié par thenyxie, 18 avril 2011 - 09:17 .

[AquilaChrysaetos86]

ipgd wrote...

Yenaquai wrote...
-snip-

Hawke is The Ishmael.

I am of the opinion that Anders is very much the main character of the story, but it really worked much better with an outside perspective. Getting into his head would be difficult for a roleplaying game, especially since so much of his character is built off the fact he isn't in complete control of himself. His character arc is definitely one that had to be spectated.

Hmm, just had a quick read through the link. That certainly seems to fit. Particularly this bit:
'The Ishmael doesn't have to be pointless, stupid, Genre Blind or a form of exposition necessarily, just not the real main character. Indeed, in some cases, it can be his story too in a way: the story of how he passively watched the lead and was deeply influenced. It is not uncommon for the Ishmael to have more Character Development than the actual main character.'


Perhaps a lot of people don't like being the spectator. I suppose that's pretty valid when considering that video games are inherently interactive, and players are used to being the main agent of anything important.

Edit: Blarg, formatting!

Also, I can't remember which episode it was, but Extra Credits took an interesting look at games as art. When I see things like our protagonist not being the main character it makes me think that perhaps we're a step closer to that.

Modifié par AquilaChrysaetos86, 18 avril 2011 - 09:20 .

[kromify]

thenyxie wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

Lulz @ your Arishok battles.

On another topic, that started bugging me... What did Karl do to get tranq'd, anyway? Was it because he planned escaping? Why wasn't Grace, an escaped mage, traqn'd once they got him back if that's crime enough to get a brand on your forehead? Was he just a bait to get Anders? Does Orsino approve tranqs at the Kirkwall Circle like the First Enchanter does in Ferelden or is it all under templar control?

I assume, in theory, Orsino has say over who gets made tranquil, but in practice, not so much. Considering all the mages that get made tranquil, it seems like any out of control Templar could carry it out. Also, though Grace wasn't made tranquil, Alain will comment that three of the Starkhaven mages were made tranquil (possibly at random, he says).

As for Karl, I think it was all part of the trap and not just punishment for Karl. The wanted to catch Anders and so they needed willing bait. The only way to make Karl willing bait. Karl himself was a dangerous influence for anyone who might also want to escape and Anders was dangerous as someone with the capability of communicating with and transporting Circle mages to freedom.

See, this confuses me. Because obviously it was a trap set for Anders, and it happens early in the game... and yet, the Templars never come after him again. I'm still doing my first mage PT and got some shocks last night. Apparently you can talk to Cullen in Act II and he calls Anders a mage straight out during that conversation.

And on a semi-related note, on my way to fight the Arishok, Meredith showed up and killed the Sareebas that was kicking our butts, and was all, "I'll overlook your own obvious use of magic. For now."

All of which makes me go... if they've known since Act I that Anders and my Hawke are mages--and it seems they do--why let us run free all this time? Especially if they were hunting Anders prior to his meeting Hawke. Hawke was nobody in Act I, though admittedly helpful to the city in Act II.

It's that almighty armour of plot! Though it would have been nice to have a rescue mission from the Gallows, everyone would want to rescue Bethany aswell. Then she would be recaptured and tranquilised!!!  Mwahahaa

[Sable Rhapsody]

thenyxie wrote...

See, this confuses me. Because obviously it was a trap set for Anders, and it happens early in the game... and yet, the Templars never come after him again. I'm still doing my first mage PT and got some shocks last night. Apparently you can talk to Cullen in Act II and he calls Anders a mage straight out during that conversation.

And on a semi-related note, on my way to fight the Arishok, Meredith showed up and killed the Sareebas that was kicking our butts, and was all, "I'll overlook your own obvious use of magic. For now."

All of which makes me go... if they've known since Act I that Anders and my Hawke are mages--and it seems they do--why let us run free all this time? Especially if they were hunting Anders prior to his meeting Hawke. Hawke was nobody in Act I, though admittedly helpful to the city in Act II.

Well, Karl tells the templars that Anders is the apostate they're hunting; presumably they only knew of an apostate helping out Karl, not Anders specifically.  And Anders and Hawke kill all witnesses.  Yes, the templars probably know something's up after that, but I doubt they know of Anders and Hawke personally, or have any idea of the threat they'll pose down the line.

As for the Rite of Tranquility, loot the letter from the templar commander's body next time.  It's from Alrik, talking about his plan to Tranquil Karl and root out his fellows.  Considering how much abuse of the Rite of Tranquility Alrik got away with over the course of the game, I doubt Orsino has much say in it.  Alrik started misusing it years before the Dissent quest ever got underway.

[YamiSnuffles]

thenyxie wrote...

See, this confuses me. Because obviously it was a trap set for Anders, and it happens early in the game... and yet, the Templars never come after him again. I'm still doing my first mage PT and got some shocks last night. Apparently you can talk to Cullen in Act II and he calls Anders a mage straight out during that conversation.

And on a semi-related note, on my way to fight the Arishok, Meredith showed up and killed the Sareebas that was kicking our butts, and was all, "I'll overlook your own obvious use of magic. For now."

All of which makes me go... if they've known since Act I that Anders and my Hawke are mages--and it seems they have--why let us run free all this time? Especially if they were hunting Anders prior to his meeting Hawke. Hawke was nobody in Act I, though admittedly helpful to the city in Act II.

ETA: Although I DID note Cullen's caveat to Anders about "do you know how hard it is to deal with mages that want to deal with demons?" Which gave me the impression that he didn't believe Anders and Hawke were those kinds of mages.

I think this is all part of the whole hand waving problem people have with the game when it comes to mages. Sometimes the game just stretched believability when it comes to the Templars ignoring Hawke and friends. After a certain point the player is supposed to believe that Hawke's money/status is enough to not only protect her but also her friends.

As to why the Templars didn't continue to hunt Anders, I always figured they did. They don't have anyone like Karl to use as a bait, though, so they can't set up trap as easily. So instead of luring him in, they look for him and other apostates in regular sweeps of the city and undercity. Part of the reason he asks to move in with Hawke is to have a safer place to stay.

Oh, and let's not forget the Templars just plain suck when it comes to tracking Anders for some reason. This being proven by the fact that rival Hawke can warn the Templars about Anders being up to something and they never catch him (even if he's standing right there).

[Ryzaki]

thenyxie wrote...

Varric: And after Hawke died, a strange message appeared that said something about "Turning down the combat difficulty", and a very distant voice dripping sarcasm said; "Thanks, but I can't turn it down any lower than Casual."

 

Thanks for this. 

[ipgd]

AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...

Also, I can't remember which episode it was, but Extra Credits took an interesting look at games as art. When I see things like our protagonist not being the main character it makes me think that perhaps we're a step closer to that.

Dragon Age 2 shares a lot of narrative elements with a certain other nearly-universally-reviled-upon-release game that was later recognized as one of the pioneers of postmodernism in gaming, which is a particular point of interest to me (and one I can't shut up about, evidently). There are a lot of parallels to be found in the backlash, especially. It'll be interesting to see how opinions of the game change as more people spend time to actually think about it.

[andrastepreserveme]

Ok! I can't keep to myself how happy I am about this, I don't know if she's already shown you guys by Yamisnuffles has made me the most amazing Anders art.

The Benefits of Losing



Based on Chapter 4 of my DA2 Hawke/Anders fic Hindsight.

Being useless at Diamondback isn't quite so bad when you're not the only one...

Modifié par mandamcmoo, 18 avril 2011 - 09:32 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Kolotosa wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

Lulz @ your Arishok battles.

On another topic, that started bugging me... What did Karl do to get tranq'd, anyway? Was it because he planned escaping? Why wasn't Grace, an escaped mage, traqn'd once they got him back if that's crime enough to get a brand on your forehead? Was he just a bait to get Anders? Does Orsino approve tranqs at the Kirkwall Circle like the First Enchanter does in Ferelden or is it all under templar control?

When he regains himself, doesn't he say something about the Templars finding the letter he was writing to Anders? My impression was that it was dual purpose; punishment for conspiracy, and bait for Anders; and probably as much about punishing Anders as Karl himself.

I don't know about the chain of command with these things though. In the Circle in Ferelden I got the impression that it was a joint decision between the Templars and the First Enchanter, but lord knows protocol means nothing in Kirkwall. I want to believe they were being performed without Orsino's knowledge, much less his blessing.

Hah, seeing that poster makes me think of a Mulder version of Anders. *snicker*