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[phantomdragoness]

Batteries wrote...

When was this...?


And as for Anders actions and consequentialism and writing a strongly worded letter subject:
I don't really know how to explain my stance on this...let's see...I agree with what Anders did, but I think it was also really ****ty - and not just the way he got you to help him. (Think about that! Anders tries to keep you out of his home-made bomb making so you don't get blamed for it. BUT if their laws are like our laws, whether or not you knew you were helping him, you would be charged with accessory. So, Anders protecting you would be in vain.) There could have been other options, but I doubt there could have been compromise - Meredith was too far gone to accept it. Maybe if we never found that blasted idol, it all would have ended a little better. And Anders did not want compromise, because the settlement would be in favor of the Chantry and its Templars - too many people are scared of mages. His actions didn't help that matter at all, but he got what he wanted: a war. And we all know the Chantry would not have stepped in anyways - Elthina would have just told them to go in time-out. She was leaving everything in the hands of an absent diety, and silence does not make things better. I hate when you brought her Ser Alrik's letter, and she turned her back on you. So...no, there was no chance for compromise at all. Elthina would have just let things get worse and worse until the armies marched to Kirkwall.

Hell, I'll say it. I approve of what Anders did. It just sucks that innocent lives had to be sacrificed.

[ipgd]

Ryzaki wrote...

He's not Andraste nor is he Hilter. Both had far more impact than he did or will.

Again, that's yet to be seen. Whether he lives or dies, he can easily be built up as a martyr or a revolutionary figure either through his own doing or by someone else who wants to use him as such.

What he actually did isn't as relevant as what the legends will say he did, which will doubtlessly be exaggerated.

[eleridragon]

phantomdragoness wrote...

Batteries wrote...

When was this...?

During Repentance  (I regret nothing)

[Ryzaki]

ipgd wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

He's not Andraste nor is he Hilter. Both had far more impact than he did or will.

Again, that's yet to be seen. Whether he lives or dies, he can easily be built up as a martyr or a revolutionary figure either through his own doing or by someone else who wants to use him as such.

What he actually did isn't as relevant as what the legends will say he did, which will doubtlessly be exaggerated.

Except from what we see in game the legends focus on Hawke.  Hawke the savior vs Hawke the oppresor. Hawke's name is the rallying cry, Hawke is who they're looking for, Hawke is the one who can get everyone to chillax. 

Sorry Anders. No one cares about you.  

Does help that Hawke does play the dragon to either Meredith or Orsino. And since they go bonkers he's leader by default. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 avril 2011 - 04:18 .

[Mistress Tasharra]

Good discussion going on here.

That said, Anders has ruined my brain, and because I've been writing fanction, I just wanted to dump this here.



Have fun Anderstians!

[leggywillow]

Ryzaki wrote...
Except from what we see in game the legends focus on Hawke.  Hawke the savior vs Hawke the oppresor. Hawke's name is the rallying cry, Hawke is who they're looking for, Hawke is the one who can get everyone to chillax.

Which is a pretty strange thing to think, since Hawke couldn't get everyone to chillax in the first place.

[ipgd]

Ryzaki wrote...
Except from what we see in game the legends focus on Hawke.  Hawke the savior vs Hawke the oppresor. Hawke's name is the rallying cry, Hawke is who they're looking for, Hawke is the one who can get everyone to chillax. 

Sorry Anders. No one cares about you.  

Does help that Hawke does play the dragon to either Meredith or Orsino. And since they go bonkers he's leader by default. 

We don't know anything about the legend of Anders. Hawke is only hyped up at the very beginning of the interrogation, at the point where direct references to Anders's role would have basically constituted a spoiler. It's hinted at with the scathing way Cassandra refers to him, but aside from that, there is no indication of what anyone thinks of Anders and there won't be until DA3. It's all speculation at this point.

From a purely meta perspective, I highly doubt they are just going to drop that narrative thread.

[YamiSnuffles]

leggywillow wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Except from what we see in game the legends focus on Hawke.  Hawke the savior vs Hawke the oppresor. Hawke's name is the rallying cry, Hawke is who they're looking for, Hawke is the one who can get everyone to chillax.

Which is a pretty strange thing to think, since Hawke couldn't get everyone to chillax in the first place.

Yeah. It makes me think of the start of Act 3. Elthina thanks Hawke for helping to diffuse the situation. I'm pretty sure my Hawke made things worse if anything. Then again, this is Elthina, so she probably doesn't know what helping looks like.

[Ryzaki]

leggywillow wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Except from what we see in game the legends focus on Hawke.  Hawke the savior vs Hawke the oppresor. Hawke's name is the rallying cry, Hawke is who they're looking for, Hawke is the one who can get everyone to chillax.

Which is a pretty strange thing to think, since Hawke couldn't get everyone to chillax in the first place.

It really is. Maybe that's why they're looking for the Warden too? The one who actally *could* get people to chillax? 

[Xoe]

ipgd wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

He's not Andraste nor is he Hilter. Both had far more impact than he did or will.

Again, that's yet to be seen. Whether he lives or dies, he can easily be built up as a martyr or a revolutionary figure either through his own doing or by someone else who wants to use him as such.

What he actually did isn't as relevant as what the legends will say he did, which will doubtlessly be exaggerated.

You are all the love in me. 

Er. I mean, WELL SAID.

[Ryzaki]

ipgd wrote...
We don't know anything about the legend of Anders. Hawke is only hyped up at the very beginning of the interrogation, at the point where direct references to Anders's role would have basically constituted a spoiler. It's hinted at with the scathing way Cassandra refers to him, but aside from that, there is no indication of what anyone thinks of Anders and there won't be until DA3. It's all speculation at this point.

From a purely meta perspective, I highly doubt they are just going to drop that narrative thread.

As for speculation true it is. But I doubt the mages would focus only on their oppresser (If Hawke sides with the templars) if they actually saw Anders name as any good for their cause. Anders isn't mentioned as their rallying cry in that case (probably for the sane reason that it would do far more harm than good to be associated with a terrorist).

I doubt they'll drop Anders name. But I doubt he'll be a legend on the likes of Andraste. I have a feeling he'll be a boogie man type figure to point out the dangers of loose apostates. It helps that he was an abomination.

Unfortunately for Anders he's always the bridesmaid and never the bride. 

That with the fact that he stays dead. Doesn't seem to work in his favor as being seen as a hero. 

As for just dropping it. I can see that happening easily. I though they weren't gonna drop my Warden and well...that didn't turn out well.   

Edit: Ah this is fun. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[mellifera]

The Warden could do everything but convince Morrigan and Alistair to experiment (and persuade the Awakening companions into bed)... worthless, pathetic excuse for a silver tongue

[bleetman]

Ryzaki wrote...

It really is. Maybe that's why they're looking for the Warden too? The one who actally *could* get people to chillax? 

Oh, I hope not. I can hear my Tabris facepalming from here.

Maker's breath, what is it with you humans? Go on then, out with it. What world shaking calamity do I need to solve this time? Huh? Mage rebellion? Oh, super. Colour me jubilant.

The poor girl needs a vacation.

[tmp7704]

yukidama wrote...

The Warden could do everything but convince Morrigan and Alistair to experiment (and persuade the Awakening companions into bed)... worthless, pathetic excuse for a silver tongue

The powers of Warden's tongue were better spent elsewhere.

[Isaantia]

I'd like to focus on the 3 years between Act 2 and Act 3 and the sweet sweet smexytiems that occurred in then, imho.

[YamiSnuffles]

yukidama wrote...

The Warden could do everything but convince Morrigan and Alistair to experiment (and persuade the Awakening companions into bed)... worthless, pathetic excuse for a silver tongue

Obviously the Warden ought to have been using that tongue for more than just talking.

[Ryzaki]

yukidama wrote...

The Warden could do everything but convince Morrigan and Alistair to experiment (and persuade the Awakening companions into bed)... worthless, pathetic excuse for a silver tongue

Lol "Zatherian you will remove this thousand year old curse naow."

"What no way-!" 

"I SAID NOW!" *holds up sword*

"Okay." 

My Warden didn't have a silver tongue.   

tmp7704 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

The Warden could do everything but convince Morrigan and Alistair to experiment (and persuade the Awakening companions into bed)... worthless, pathetic excuse for a silver tongue

The powers of Warden's tongue were better spent elsewhere.

I hope you're happy. I sprayed my soda all over my lap.  

bleetman wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It really is. Maybe that's why they're looking for the Warden too? The one who actally *could* get people to chillax? 

Oh, I hope not. I can hear my Tabris facepalming from here.

Maker's breath, what is it with you humans? Go on then, out with it. What world shaking calamity do I need to solve this time? Huh? Mage rebellion? Oh, super. Colour me jubilant.

The poor girl needs a vacation.

Poor thing. 

Don't know what they're gonna do for my poor dude Cousland. Dude's dead. 

They gonna go knock on his coffin or something? 

...But...what if his coffin was empty.  

[Poetics124]

Ryzaki wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Except from what we see in game the legends focus on Hawke.  Hawke the savior vs Hawke the oppresor. Hawke's name is the rallying cry, Hawke is who they're looking for, Hawke is the one who can get everyone to chillax.

Which is a pretty strange thing to think, since Hawke couldn't get everyone to chillax in the first place.

It really is. Maybe that's why they're looking for the Warden too? The one who actally *could* get people to chillax? 

I don't think it's Hawke's chillaxing skills that Cassandra is looking for so much as Hawke's ability to rally people and kick ass.  But both Hawke and the Hero of Ferelden are gone....

I'm sure we'll be getting hints of where they went.  I'm also very curious if, in that case, Anders/Justice was left behind somewhere.  Jeez, that would be bad.

[mellifera]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

yukidama wrote...

The Warden could do everything but convince Morrigan and Alistair to experiment (and persuade the Awakening companions into bed)... worthless, pathetic excuse for a silver tongue

Obviously the Warden ought to have been using that tongue for more than just talking.

It offends me that my Wardens' natural charm and amazingness in general did not make everyone drop trou indiscriminately or drive them all mad with lust.

It hurts me.

[Ryzaki]

Poetics124 wrote...
I don't think it's Hawke's chillaxing skills that Cassandra is looking for so much as Hawke's ability to rally people and kick ass.  But both Hawke and the Hero of Ferelden are gone....

I'm sure we'll be getting hints of where they went.  I'm also very curious if, in that case, Anders/Justice was left behind somewhere.  Jeez, that would be bad.

But...the Warden does that better too.  

I think Anders/Justice only go off on their own if left alive (apparently murder knife or killing him at the gallows  = dead for realz) and you didn't romance them. It would be bad though...one could only gues how many more injustices Justice would try to correct before someone put him down. (I do wonder if we'd end up meeting him like Sophia for some quick one liner before having to kill him.) 

[Poetics124]

Ryzaki wrote...

Poetics124 wrote...
I don't think it's Hawke's chillaxing skills that Cassandra is looking for so much as Hawke's ability to rally people and kick ass.  But both Hawke and the Hero of Ferelden are gone....

I'm sure we'll be getting hints of where they went.  I'm also very curious if, in that case, Anders/Justice was left behind somewhere.  Jeez, that would be bad.

But...the Warden does that better too.  

I think Anders/Justice only go off on their own if left alive (apparently murder knife or killing him at the gallows  = dead for realz) and you didn't romance them. It would be bad though...one could only gues how many more injustices Justice would try to correct before someone put him down. (I do wonder if we'd end up meeting him like Sophia for some quick one liner before having to kill him.) 

But from what Anders hinted at, Justice wouldn't necessarily die if Anders died.  He'd probably just find another body to inhabit, which is probably why Anders hoped that if he did die that it would be his old friend coming out of him and not the Spirit of Vengence. 

That is actually a very terrifying thought but has interesting possibility because Justice would not only be carrying memories of Kristoff but also the memories of Anders. 

[ipgd]

Ryzaki wrote...

As for speculation true it is. But I doubt the mages would focus only on their oppresser (If Hawke sides with the templars) if they actually saw Anders name as any good for their cause. Anders isn't mentioned as their rallying cry in that case (probably for the sane reason that it would do far more harm than good to be associated with a terrorist).

I doubt they'll drop Anders name. But I doubt he'll be a legend on the likes of Andraste. I have a feeling he'll be a boogie man type figure to point out the dangers of loose apostates. It helps that he was an abomination.

Unfortunately for Anders he's always the bridesmaid and never the bride. 

That with the fact that he stays dead. Doesn't seem to work in his favor as being seen as a hero. 

As for just dropping it. I can see that happening easily. I though they weren't gonna drop my Warden and well...that didn't turn out well.   

Edit: Ah this is fun. 

"Abomination" can really easily be turned into something like "AND WHEN THE MAKER RETURNED TO THEDAS HE TOOK ANDERS AS HIS MORTAL HOST". Never underestimate the power of spin.

Dropping the Warden makes perfect sense from a meta perspective (i.e. having nothing to do with what the players want or think should have happened) for countless reasons the developers have gone over at length. Completely ignoring an invariable plot thread that appears to have been perfectly propped up to follow through to this very conclusion doesn't. It's not like the Dark Ritual where they'll never be able to touch it again in any detail without retconning half the world away; no matter what your decision is regarding Anders is, he can become or be used as a symbol of the revolution. It's been so obviously engineered in this way that I'll be extremely surprised if it doesn't happen, unless they are deliberately setting up expectations to be subverted and/or deconstructed later.

[Ryzaki]

Poetics124 wrote...
But from what Anders hinted at, Justice wouldn't necessarily die if Anders died.  He'd probably just find another body to inhabit, which is probably why Anders hoped that if he did die that it would be his old friend coming out of him and not the Spirit of Vengence. 

That is actually a very terrifying thought but has interesting possibility because Justice would not only be carrying memories of Kristoff but also the memories of Anders. 

True. But it wouldn't be Anders just Vengeance. A very annoying Vengeance that needs to be purged as soon as possible. 

Part of me wishes my mage Hawke had set Anders corpse on fire just to make sure Vengeance couldn't keep using it. 

Though yes fighting Vengeance in DA3 would be interesting. I wonder who more demonic he would become and what he would use to charm his next host into letting him in?  

[Dasha Dreyson]

Ryzaki wrote...

Part of me wishes my mage Hawke had set Anders corpse on fire just to make sure Vengeance couldn't keep using it. 

That's why they have to burn bodies in Thedas. Otherwise the supposed dead may wander home for dinner. 

[Kawamura]

ipgd wrote...

It's been so obviously engineered in this way that I'll be extremely surprised if it doesn't happen, unless they are deliberately setting up expectations to be subverted and/or deconstructed later.

"Here, Anders' fans. I have a special note for you:

**** you.

Gaider"