57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Poetics124 wrote...
I think that Meredith had the legal right to call for the rite the moment the Grand Cleric went kaboom. She probably wasn't morally right, but on legal grounds I think that she could make that decision if the Grand Cleric is indisposed or killed. Which is why Cullen follows her orders at first and is willing to arrest Hawke when she exits the Circle if Hawke sides with the mages. It's only when Meredith demands that Hawke dies immediately for her crimes when he starts to freak out and tells Meredith that she has no right to do that (and if Hawke is not a mage, Cullen will point out that Hawke's non mage status guarantees him/her the right to a trial).  

Before Meredith goes lyrium crazy, Cullen is very willing to arrest Hawke. It's after Meredith dies that he hesitates and then finally let's Hawke go.

That' what I meant by justified. I know it was legal but Cullen while going along with it wasn't okay with the whole killing all mages for something an apostate did. 

Cullen is willing to arrest Hawke in part I believe to placate Meredith. I think Cullen had faith that the law would sort everything out and if Hawke was innocent of any wrong doing it would come out. (I also believe he didn't think Hawke did anything). Once Meredith is killed I believe Cullen lets Hawke go because at that point there's no reason to arrest Hawke. Meredith's dead and doesn't need to be placated. 

[Amondra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Quick question for anyone who might have romanced Fenris. After the sexy time scene with him and he breaks it off, if you flirt with anyone after that does it end it, or if you do the sexy time with Isabela first stop it? I ask because in arc three Fenris acts like it's over for good. I didn't get the talk after meeting his sister like I did with friendship(at least I think I did >.>) if it matters I am rivalmancing him.

If you sleep with anyone else after he leaves you you can't get back with him. 

aww poo I think Isabela triggered after him *is sad panda*

[Ryzaki]

ipgd wrote...
You're trying to argue logic with religion. The same religion whose god apparently decides to wipe out half of Thedas at random intervals because a couple of guys broke into his house.

Anyway, "why" is a specific question that nobody will be able to answer until DA3 actually comes out. I could outline a hundred ways Anders could ultimately be twisted into a revolutionary icon, or name countless real world examples of revolutionaries and bloody revolutionary acts that are whitewashed by history, but we don't have enough (read: none) information to actually argue details. My point is that the writers have no reason to drop it because a) they set it up in such a way that it looks very much like they want to continue the plot thread, Rule of Cool.

Except of course this religion is built on the whole "mages are vile." dogma. Mages are the reason the darkspawn exist, mages are the reason the maker left in the first place. You don't just magically spin that into "Oh but the maker thought it was a good idea to have an apostate blow up a church!" 

A. I don't see this especially not given the rivaly ending for Anders.
B. Why is having a crazy abomination blowing up a Chantry cool instead of letting the protagonist do it? Rule of Cool is more infavor of Hawke being the forefront than Anders. So you know Hawke actually *does* something other than react next game. The fact that Anders will be dead in many games means a living legend will have more impact. (Hawke). 

Amondra wrote...
aww poo I think Isabela triggered after him *is sad panda*

As long as you reject her (just not sleep with her) you should be fine. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 avril 2011 - 06:40 .

[Amondra]

Ryzaki wrote...

ipgd wrote...
You're trying to argue logic with religion. The same religion whose god apparently decides to wipe out half of Thedas at random intervals because a couple of guys broke into his house.

Anyway, "why" is a specific question that nobody will be able to answer until DA3 actually comes out. I could outline a hundred ways Anders could ultimately be twisted into a revolutionary icon, or name countless real world examples of revolutionaries and bloody revolutionary acts that are whitewashed by history, but we don't have enough (read: none) information to actually argue details. My point is that the writers have no reason to drop it because a) they set it up in such a way that it looks very much like they want to continue the plot thread, Rule of Cool.

Except of course this religion is built on the whole "mages are vile." dogma. Mages are the reason the darkspawn exist, mages are the reason the maker left in the first place. You don't just magically spin that into "Oh but the maker thought it was a good idea to have an apostate blow up a church!" 

A. I don't see this especially not given the rivaly ending for Anders.
B. Why is having a crazy abomination blowing up a Chantry cool instead of letting the protagonist do it? Rule of Cool is more infavor of Hawke being the forefront than Anders. So you know Hawke actually *does* something other than react next game. 

Amondra wrote...
aww poo I think Isabela triggered after him *is sad panda*

As long as you reject her (just not sleep with her) you should be fine. 

No I did the one night stand so she doesn't up and leave me with the relic >_> damn it Fenris why you so complicated

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ryzaki wrote...

Cullen is willing to arrest Hawke in part I believe to placate Meredith. I think Cullen had faith that the law would sort everything out and if Hawke was innocent of any wrong doing it would come out. (I also believe he didn't think Hawke did anything). Once Meredith is killed I believe Cullen lets Hawke go because at that point there's no reason to arrest Hawke. Meredith's dead and doesn't need to be placated. 

Well, and because Hawke just got Meredith fried in lyrium   At least in the mage ending, I got the impression that Cullen decided trying to take Hawke in against his/her will wasn't worth getting all the remaining templars in the Gallows maimed or killed.

[Ryzaki]

sassperella wrote...

You also have to remember Cassandra is a Chantry Seeker. If Anders's actions did give mages a rallying cry then she's hardly going to be supporting the one that blew up the chantry no matter what, so she's hardly going to mention him in a good light, or as a hero if the mages see him as such.

Varric is the onewho talks about rallying cries. 

At the end of the day there was a lot omitted from Varric and Cassandra's conversations as they had to keep the element of surprise and mete out the information, so a lot left open to interpretation. Until the next game or some future dlc that fills in the gaps we can guess all we want but we have to wait for BW to crochet their little blanket of misery, despair and darkness and wrap us up in it before we'll ever know.

Indeed. DA2 just feels like half a game to me. Like if DAO had ended right at Landsmeet. 

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Cullen is willing to arrest Hawke in part I believe to placate Meredith. I think Cullen had faith that the law would sort everything out and if Hawke was innocent of any wrong doing it would come out. (I also believe he didn't think Hawke did anything). Once Meredith is killed I believe Cullen lets Hawke go because at that point there's no reason to arrest Hawke. Meredith's dead and doesn't need to be placated. 

Well, and because Hawke just got Meredith fried in lyrium   At least in the mage ending, I got the impression that Cullen decided trying to take Hawke in against his/her will wasn't worth getting all the remaining templars in the Gallows maimed or killed.

lol I don't think my Hawke's that good. 

Too many templars to nullify the magic users and too many people to fight at once. And forget it if anyone knows Holy Smite. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 avril 2011 - 06:45 .

[ipgd]

Ryzaki wrote...

ipgd wrote...
You're trying to argue logic with religion. The same religion whose god apparently decides to wipe out half of Thedas at random intervals because a couple of guys broke into his house.

Anyway, "why" is a specific question that nobody will be able to answer until DA3 actually comes out. I could outline a hundred ways Anders could ultimately be twisted into a revolutionary icon, or name countless real world examples of revolutionaries and bloody revolutionary acts that are whitewashed by history, but we don't have enough (read: none) information to actually argue details. My point is that the writers have no reason to drop it because a) they set it up in such a way that it looks very much like they want to continue the plot thread, Rule of Cool.

Except of course this religion is built on the whole "mages are vile." dogma. Mages are the reason the darkspawn exist, mages are the reason the maker left in the first place. You don't just magically spin that into "Oh but the maker thought it was a good idea to have an apostate blow up a church!"

... Yeeeeeah, you can. It's religion, and people are inherently dumb. There are real world religions with bigger contradictions than that that people kill themselves over in two-thousand-****ing-eleven.

[Poetics124]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Cullen is willing to arrest Hawke in part I believe to placate Meredith. I think Cullen had faith that the law would sort everything out and if Hawke was innocent of any wrong doing it would come out. (I also believe he didn't think Hawke did anything). Once Meredith is killed I believe Cullen lets Hawke go because at that point there's no reason to arrest Hawke. Meredith's dead and doesn't need to be placated. 

Well, and because Hawke just got Meredith fried in lyrium   At least in the mage ending, I got the impression that Cullen decided trying to take Hawke in against his/her will wasn't worth getting all the remaining templars in the Gallows maimed or killed.

Which is probably why the mage ending is my canon ending.  Most of the mages come out of it alive and a lot of templars do as well.   I think it is the best choice out of the entire ****ty situation.

[Ryzaki]

ipgd wrote...
... Yeeeeeah, you can. It's religion, and people are inherently dumb. There are real world religions with bigger contradictions than that that people kill themselves over in two-thousand-****ing-eleven.

Oh? Do tell which religion blames a group of people for a certain action (and the god abandoing them, as long as a natural phenomon which destroys everything it touches once in a while) and then uses one of those people to kill a high ranking member of their clergy in a terrorist attack and everyone buys this as being the gods will. (Despite the fact that only a minority is making this up and the majority isn't liable to believe this.) 

FYI The average Andrastian isn't a fanatic so don't try to use extremists to prove your point. 

People are inherently dumb when told something by those in power. Sadly for mages. They're not in power. 

So yeeeeaaah. You can't People don't believe anything if you don't have something to back it up. The Chantry had that. The mages...not so much. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 avril 2011 - 06:52 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ryzaki wrote...
lol I don't think my Hawke's that good. 

Too many templars to nullify the magic users and too many people to fight at once. And forget it if anyone knows Holy Smite. 

I don't think Hawke would WIN necessarily against that many templars, but remember that at the end of the game, any Hawke who sides with the mages has just killed templars by the scores for the last several hours.  S/he might not win, but a lot of templars would die.

Cullen is many things, but by the end of DA2, he is not an idiot.  He knows better than to throw his men into that meat-grinder, even if he could kill or subdue Hawke.  And besides, he does have a thing for Amells 

[Ryzaki]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I don't think Hawke would WIN necessarily against that many templars, but remember that at the end of the game, any Hawke who sides with the mages has just killed templars by the scores for the last several hours.  S/he might not win, but a lot of templars would die.

Cullen is many things, but by the end of DA2, he is not an idiot.  He knows better than to throw his men into that meat-grinder, even if he could kill or subdue Hawke.  And besides, he does have a thing for Amells 

True. 

LOL he does doesn't he? Poor Cullen.  

[Kawamura]

ipgd wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ipgd wrote...
You're trying to argue logic with religion. The same religion whose god apparently decides to wipe out half of Thedas at random intervals because a couple of guys broke into his house.

Anyway, "why" is a specific question that nobody will be able to answer until DA3 actually comes out. I could outline a hundred ways Anders could ultimately be twisted into a revolutionary icon, or name countless real world examples of revolutionaries and bloody revolutionary acts that are whitewashed by history, but we don't have enough (read: none) information to actually argue details. My point is that the writers have no reason to drop it because a) they set it up in such a way that it looks very much like they want to continue the plot thread, Rule of Cool.

Except of course this religion is built on the whole "mages are vile." dogma. Mages are the reason the darkspawn exist, mages are the reason the maker left in the first place. You don't just magically spin that into "Oh but the maker thought it was a good idea to have an apostate blow up a church!"

... Yeeeeeah, you can. It's religion, and people are inherently dumb. There are real world religions with bigger contradictions than that that people kill themselves over in two-thousand-****ing-eleven.

Reminds me of Mormons.

Not, the, er stupid and killing themselves thing. But the amazing way they can change the mythos. God. So good. Like, overnight.

Modifié par Kawamura, 19 avril 2011 - 06:50 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I don't think Hawke would WIN necessarily against that many templars, but remember that at the end of the game, any Hawke who sides with the mages has just killed templars by the scores for the last several hours.  S/he might not win, but a lot of templars would die.

Cullen is many things, but by the end of DA2, he is not an idiot.  He knows better than to throw his men into that meat-grinder, even if he could kill or subdue Hawke.  And besides, he does have a thing for Amells 

True. 

LOL he does doesn't he? Poor Cullen.  

After DA2, I felt kinda bad about my Amell Warden being something of a snarky, horrible brat to him in DA:O.  Though in her defense, he got a lot cooler and a lot less creepytastic in the sequel.  

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 19 avril 2011 - 06:52 .

[ipgd]

Ryzaki wrote...

ipgd wrote...
... Yeeeeeah, you can. It's religion, and people are inherently dumb. There are real world religions with bigger contradictions than that that people kill themselves over in two-thousand-****ing-eleven.

Oh? Do tell which religion blames a group of people for a certain action (and the god abandoing them, as long as a natural phenomon which destroys everything it touches once in a while) and then uses one of those people to kill a high ranking member of their clergy in a terrorist attack and everyone buys this as being the gods will. (Despite the fact that only a minority is making this up and the majority isn't liable to believe this.) 

FYI The average Andrastian isn't a fanatic so don't try to use extremists to prove your point. 

People are inherently dumb when told something by those in power. Sadly for mages. They're not in power. 

So yeeeeaaah. You can't People don't believe anything if you don't have something to back it up. The Chantry had that. The mages...not so much. 

In a world where there are people who honestly believe Scientology is real I'm not sure where you're finding any doubt concerning the overwhelming gullibility of people.

And of course not everyone is going to accept it. Anders's new following could end up the Christianity to Andraste's Judaism. Anders's manifesto becomes the New Testament HYUCKHUYUCKHUHHUFIHJDUJHFDHN

[Ryzaki]

Eh. Guess we'll just have to wait til DA3.

[phantomdragoness]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eh. Guess we'll just have to wait til DA3.

But...but...that's so far away... And they haven't even announced that they're working on it. GRRR Bioware!!

[Sable Rhapsody]

ipgd wrote...

And of course not everyone is going to accept it. Anders's new following could end up the Christianity to Andraste's Judaism. Anders's manifesto becomes the New Testament HYUCKHUYUCKHUHHUFIHJDUJHFDHN

You win 

I love how much it pisses off Seb when Anders says, "Andraste died.  That doesn't mean she failed."  Oh Anders.  You have such a martyr complex...I can't decide whether to hug or punch you.

[Ryzaki]

phantomdragoness wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Eh. Guess we'll just have to wait til DA3.

But...but...that's so far away... And they haven't even announced that they're working on it. GRRR Bioware!!

Heh.

I'm reading the manga Basara and I'm tempted to make a Hawke like Sarasa. One who is swept up just trying to do what she thinks will help those she cares about, a little weak, a little strong and only trying to follow her heart. I'll probably have her friendmance Anders (though he's no red king ). And then run away with him at the end because she can't kill him.

Edit: Gah. I hate reading Basara because I always end up crying like a baby.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 avril 2011 - 07:47 .

[Poetics124]

Yenaquai wrote...

I'm perfectly fine to believe that Anders' actions could lead to something like a sub-religion or cult in the near future after his flight from Kirkwall. Its only natural to idolize people who you think strongly of, or who - in the mages/Anders case - give you the chance to break free of oppression. It could be that people will see in him an agent of the Maker.
Especially in a world in which the Maker and the gods seem to have such a prominent and omnipresent role. Not to forget the fade, which may or may not be a direct channel into the realm of the Maker himself. It doesn't seem too far fetched to me that people could idolize Anders in such a way.


But I doubt that the Chantry would go out of their way to make him a religious icon.
At least not now.
Maybe in a hundred, a thousand years, when the mages are finally free and the treatment of mages in the Dragon Age is only a bad memory, and the Chantry itself changed, maybe usurped, maybe after a bloody war that eradicated all Divines, templars, former priests/sisters/mothers of the Chantry, so a new one could be built. - Who knows.

Of course everything could go to hell in a handbasket, with all mages slaughtered, the Chantry having even greater influence and branding every mage an abomination to be killed as soon as possible. - And convincing the public that Anders' actions proved that the Maker "turned his gaze away from the mages" and their gift is a curse to be eradicated.

Could be either of them, or anything inbetween. Either way, I think all outcomes have a lot potential to them.

I have a feeling something is going on underneath the surface (something that Sandal alluded to in his lyrium induced speech) that will make all of the fighting between mage and non-mage moot and  that all the things that are happening in Thedas are leading up to that moment.  The Grey Wardens suspect it, the Divine seems like she has an idea, and Flemeth definately knows.  In the end, I think Anders actions help speed whatever process that is already happening up.

The mage wars are going to end with some crazy stuff going down that will make both sides sit down and take a notice.   

Modifié par Poetics124, 19 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[phantomdragoness]

Ryzaki wrote...

phantomdragoness wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Eh. Guess we'll just have to wait til DA3.

But...but...that's so far away... And they haven't even announced that they're working on it. GRRR Bioware!!

Heh.

I'm reading the manga Basara and I'm tempted to make a Hawke like Sarasa. One who is swept up just trying to do what she thinks will help those she cares about, a little weak, a little strong and only trying to follow her heart. I'll probably have her friendmance Anders (though he's no red king ). And then run away with him at the end because she can't kill him.

Edit: Gah. I hate reading Basara because I always end up crying like a baby.

...that sounds like my Warrior Hawke...except she's very snarky.

My Mage Hawke will be a bitter Blood-Mage who goes by the "every man for himself" policy, and the kind-hearted Anders will soften her up. XD

Ohh, the fanfiction bunnies in my head won't stop breeding!!!!

[Jean]

Yenaquai wrote...

Poetics124 wrote...



I have a feeling something is going on underneath the surface (something that Sandal alluded to in his lyrium induced speech) that will make all of the fighting between mage and non-mage moot and  that all the things that are happening in Thedas are leading up to that moment.  The Grey Wardens suspect it, the Divine seems like she has an idea, and Flemeth definately knows.  In the end, I think Anders actions help speed whatever process that is already happening up.

The mage wars are going to end with some crazy stuff going down that will make both sides sit down and take a notice.   

Hm, what did Sandal say exactly? I can't remember anything out of the ordinary (You know, him standing over slaughtered darkspawns and abominations, ENCHANTMENT! etc)

I wondered what was going on regarding Flemeth and the Wardens, and I think it will play a really big role in DA3, but I wasn't sure if it did connect to the revolution Anders' started. Well... if there really will be something big, and everything is intertwined, I suspect that Anders' actions might even be more fuel for a sub-religion for him. You know... "the apostate mage who was the servant of the Maker to lead the world to..." whatever is about to happen.

www.youtube.com/watch

I think you've got a 1 out of 100 chance to actually get this in your game

Modifié par Batteries, 19 avril 2011 - 08:04 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

phantomdragoness wrote...

My Mage Hawke will be a bitter Blood-Mage who goes by the "every man for himself" policy, and the kind-hearted Anders will soften her up. XD

Ohh, the fanfiction bunnies in my head won't stop breeding!!!!

That's more-or-less what happened to my Hawke.  Stupid Anders making her a better person.  *grumbles*  

He is such a ridiculously kind and compassionate person, even under all that baggage.  I love me The Kiss as much as any other Anders fan, but I honestly think the scene where Anders spends the night at Hawke's is my favorite.  He's so gentle, so incredibly heartfelt and sweet.