57020 réponses à ce sujet

[YamiSnuffles]

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

Ooh, that's really interesting. I'll have to read the whole thing.

Before I do that, I just wanted to add that I like that she said this. Aside from saying "YES" to why the heck are people most obsessed over why he's gay or straight, I do think his inner demons are the most interesting, compelling part of his character. It's why his romance was so heartbreaking. Especially his Act 3 "last three years" codex.

*hugs Anders*

[MelRedux]

ipgd wrote...

guys there is less squee and crack in the fenris thread than there is here right now, you should be ashamed of yourselves

To be fair, the Fenris thread never has ANY crack. *throws self down sobbing*

[shiba5]

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

I know we've discussed this on here before. It's one of the reasons I never kill him.
My friend who hates the character says Anders has no excuse for the way he is, and I just don't know how he can say that. It's like he's playing a different game than I am.
Anyway, I'm going to bookmark this so I can drag it back up at 6am EST tomorrow because I find it interesting and I have to go now.

[Purposeof-Flight]

You know what?
I love Fenris.
I just don't give a damn about the Fenris thread.
There, I said it.

[Heidenreich]

Mel_Redux wrote...

ipgd wrote...

guys there is less squee and crack in the fenris thread than there is here right now, you should be ashamed of yourselves

To be fair, the Fenris thread never has ANY crack. *throws self down sobbing*

*soothe*

[Threeparts]

AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...

Re: Circle of three. I asked earlier but think it got swallowed; did anyone else notice the red sigils over the darker ones? Any guesses about it? Or are the darker ones just a symbol for Kirkwall?

Don't quote me on this, but I believe the red stylized dragons were a symbol of the slave uprising that happened in Kirkwall? Perhaps painted over the darker symbols of Imperial Kirkwall. Strange that they've survived so long, but perhaps the modern citizens of Kirkwall use them as a symbol Of The People?
It reminds me a little of mine sign from Discworld.

yukidama wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

I'd almost agree except, they DID come and try to enslave the Denerim Alienage during the blight.  And the whole slavery thing, after seeing how Fenris was treated i don't know. Besides, I want to be a Raider next time. PIRATE ZEVRAN where are you???

Well, that's the point, isn't it? All glimpses we get are of the evil slaver mage bogeymen and beyond that.... what? Makes it difficult to care when they're such a caricature in a game that prides itself on the greyness of its grey.

Given that the official Chantry doctrine was that it was the Tevinter mages that broke into the black city, learned blood magic from Dumat, and indirectly releasing the first Blight upon the world, I'd love to see a follower of the Tevinter Chantry give their own version of events. How much can we trust the White Divine's doctrine, and how much of it is blurred or adulterated for the actual events? I'm sure we won't ever be told outright, but if there are different versions we may get a better understanding of Thedas' history and where magic in that world comes from.
With Sandal's prophesy and the inscription that a poster found the other day on those boots, which I would consider to be related, these are questions with rapidly increasing importance. What exactly happened in the Golden City, who is the Maker and did He really leave, and what would happen if He revealed himself again?

Modifié par Threeparts, 21 avril 2011 - 01:04 .

[AquilaChrysaetos86]

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

Hmm, this is interesting. I did wonder if this was an angle she was going for with the character. Having myself been in Hawke's position in a relationship it certainly resonated with me. I think perhaps this is where the framed narrative structure is weakest, because you cannot see Anders' daily struggle, only certain dramatic events, it gives the 'mental illness' angle less potency. Just my opinion though.

[leggywillow]

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

::snip::

It is odd that it wasn't mentioned in that context.  For me, that was the most emotionally powerful part of the Anders romance.  His Act 3 Codex entry was a much bigger gut punch for me than the big Chantry-splosion, since it seemed to draw frighteningly realistic parallels to real life.

[autumnyte]

Mel_Redux wrote...

ipgd wrote...

guys there is less squee and crack in the fenris thread than there is here right now, you should be ashamed of yourselves

To be fair, the Fenris thread never has ANY crack. *throws self down sobbing*

Sadly true. 

[MelRedux]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

You know what?
I love Fenris.
I just don't give a damn about the Fenris thread.
There, I said it.

*clings and sobs*

[MelRedux]

Heidenreich wrote...

Mel_Redux wrote...

ipgd wrote...

guys there is less squee and crack in the fenris thread than there is here right now, you should be ashamed of yourselves

To be fair, the Fenris thread never has ANY crack. *throws self down sobbing*

*soothe*

*clings and sobs .....again*

[SurelyForth]

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

That's an excellent find and it is funny that it does get lost in so many discussions about him. This is where some additional information in the time skips would have been appreciated. That being said, the dynamic comes across quite well, for me, during the beginning of Act 3 when Hawke is all kicking ass, earning respect and donning the mantle of Champion while he's haunting her balcony, paranoid about templars peeping on his conversations and just generally looking and acting like an utter mess of a loon.

I know that the second time I played through the game, there was a point in Act 3 where my Hawke and I were on the verge of giving up on him, in a way? Like I felt exhausted by him, and it bled onto her. That was the pt where I got a clear sense of how her life must be every day because there's so much going on with him that she can't touch and will never know and, no matter how much she loves him and wants to help him, she just can't do much more than be available and hope that she's not making things worse.[/rambling]

[Ryzaki]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

You know what?
I love Fenris.
I just don't give a damn about the Fenris thread.
There, I said it.

Subsitute Fenris with Alistair and I Feel the same way. So I see exactly where you're coming from. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 avril 2011 - 01:08 .

[Dunizel]

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

I completely agree with the last lines. If people could just put the romance aside and see Anders as a characters, they would see it too. My first playthtough I just went for a friendly approach, without romance. And it was really painful, even without any love involved, to see a friend fighting his inner demons, and in Act3 you could really see how much he changed and you chould feel the impending doom...I was starting to feel so sorry for him. Of course things get even worst if you are his lover, or even more in a rivalmance. 

I think that many people hate Anders just because they didn't see his character  and the pain he has been through for years, and the things he had to see mages suffer...
Sure, he is a bit "crazy", but can you blame him? He has reasons to be...this doesn't justify anything...but still...

[Sialater]

shiba5 wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

I know we've discussed this on here before. It's one of the reasons I never kill him.
My friend who hates the character says Anders has no excuse for the way he is, and I just don't know how he can say that. It's like he's playing a different game than I am.
Anyway, I'm going to bookmark this so I can drag it back up at 6am EST tomorrow because I find it interesting and I have to go now.

I have a scizophrenic aunt and a father with borderline dimentia.

Anders... was disturbingly familiar.  I cannot kill him.

Modifié par Sialater, 21 avril 2011 - 01:12 .

[Tasmen]

Mel_Redux wrote...

ipgd wrote...

guys there is less squee and crack in the fenris thread than there is here right now, you should be ashamed of yourselves

To be fair, the Fenris thread never has ANY crack. *throws self down sobbing*

We'll just have to keep crack'ing together, be-be.

[MelRedux]

Tasmen wrote...

Mel_Redux wrote...

ipgd wrote...

guys there is less squee and crack in the fenris thread than there is here right now, you should be ashamed of yourselves

To be fair, the Fenris thread never has ANY crack. *throws self down sobbing*

We'll just have to keep crack'ing together, be-be.

*clings and sobs....again...again*

[AquilaChrysaetos86]

Threeparts wrote...

AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...

Re: Circle of three. I asked earlier but think it got swallowed; did anyone else notice the red sigils over the darker ones? Any guesses about it? Or are the darker ones just a symbol for Kirkwall?

Don't quote me on this, but I believe the red stylized dragons were a symbol of the slave uprising that happened in Kirkwall? Perhaps painted over the darker symbols of Imperial Kirkwall. Strange that they've survived so long, but perhaps the modern citizens of Kirkwall use them as a symbol Of The People?
It reminds me a little of mine sign from Discworld.

I'm not very well versed in Discworld lore I'm afraid, so I'll have to take your word for it.

That does make sense though. I was a little confused about them. Especially in that loading screen where the Imperial symbol is replaced with the dragon. And why pick a dragon as a symbol of uprising? Perhaps the symbols haven't faded because they're magical? And interesting to note that you only ever see the Imperial symbol in places like the Viscount's keep. Am very intrigued by this. I'll have to investigate when I'm a little more compos mentis.

Also, it tickles me that you said don't quote me on this. /random

[Ryzaki]

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

Very interesting. 

And this explains so much of my feelings on trying to help Anders fight Justice. Even if he's losing.   I guess it's why I am able to kill him if only to give him some peace. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 avril 2011 - 01:14 .

[Sialater]

Ryzaki wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

Very interesting. 

And this explains so much of my feelings on trying to help Anders fight Justice. Even if he's losing. 

And mine for the friendmance.

[YamiSnuffles]

Mental illnesses can be really heartbreaking. My mother-in-law developed a mental disorder not long after my husband and I got engaged. This resulted in me seeing my husband cry for the first time. The way it effects every person is just so hard. I cry even thinking about it now.

Gah.

Seriously, thinking about Anders in this light is such a heart wrenching thing. It's why, though I might have wanted it, I understood why there wasn't much fluff in the relationship. The guy struggles so much throughout the game and that's got to be really hard for Hawke also.

[Caliyhe]

Mel_Redux wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

Mel_Redux wrote...

ipgd wrote...

guys there is less squee and crack in the fenris thread than there is here right now, you should be ashamed of yourselves

To be fair, the Fenris thread never has ANY crack. *throws self down sobbing*

We'll just have to keep crack'ing together, be-be.

*clings and sobs....again...again*

This is depressing. Fengirls can't even stay in the Fenris thread anymore xD (And I am one of them.)

[autumnyte]

Ryzaki wrote...

Very interesting. 

And this explains so much of my feelings on trying to help Anders fight Justice. Even if he's losing.   I guess it's why I am able to kill him if only to give him some peace. 

So much this. It's also why I don't think I can ever romance him again, even though I love the character. It just hurts too much in a way that hits close to home.

[silver-crescent]

Sialater wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

Very interesting. 

And this explains so much of my feelings on trying to help Anders fight Justice. Even if he's losing. 

And mine for the friendmance.

Yeah, given how Jennifer also had said that Anders's relationship with Justice changes in act 3 depending on whether you befirend or rival him, this angle only makes the rival path look even more grim. It's the difference between coping with the issues and hopelessly fighting them and only making things worse in the end.

Modifié par silver-crescent, 21 avril 2011 - 01:20 .

[phantomdragoness]

Dunizel wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

I completely agree with the last lines. If people could just put the romance aside and see Anders as a characters, they would see it too. My first playthtough I just went for a friendly approach, without romance. And it was really painful, even without any love involved, to see a friend fighting his inner demons, and in Act3 you could really see how much he changed and you chould feel the impending doom...I was starting to feel so sorry for him. Of course things get even worst if you are his lover, or even more in a rivalmance. 

I think that many people hate Anders just because they didn't see his character  and the pain he has been through for years, and the things he had to see mages suffer...
Sure, he is a bit "crazy", but can you blame him? He has reasons to be...this doesn't justify anything...but still...

She said "may never be able to control."

OMG YOU GUYS, THERE'S STILL HOPE!!! XD

Okay, back to business.

The one time I purely romanced Fenris (<_<), I was Anders' best friend pretty much - it felt like a case of platonic love. But indeed, you DO see how much more painful it is for Anders to just exist; the man is losing himself every day. This is why I can never really rivalmance him, because I feel like I am only making his condition worse. Crazy peope should not be stepped on, they need patience, and understanding. You have to keep them calm to "get through" to them - which is why in Dissent, Hawke just doesn't lunge at Anders as he is about to kill Ella, all Hawke does is talk calmly, and hope that Anders is strong enough to break through. Can't rush them.

Like all the good it did, right? But I get the sense that Justice is calmer if you friendmance his host.

I dunno. I hope any of that makes sense. I just woke up from a nap.

Modifié par phantomdragoness, 21 avril 2011 - 01:21 .