57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Actually snapping at Anders stops him from killing Ella just as well. At least it did on my rivalrymance. Let me reload so I can see what Hawke says exactly.  "You are here under my command. Not another step." 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 avril 2011 - 01:25 .

[Threeparts]

Sialater wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

I know we've discussed this on here before. It's one of the reasons I never kill him.
My friend who hates the character says Anders has no excuse for the way he is, and I just don't know how he can say that. It's like he's playing a different game than I am.
Anyway, I'm going to bookmark this so I can drag it back up at 6am EST tomorrow because I find it interesting and I have to go now.

I have a scizophrenic aunt and a father with borderline dimentia.

Anders... was disturbingly familiar.  I cannot kill him.

Like Shiba5 said, this is something we've gone over before, though not in any great depth. It's fantastic to see Hepler confirming that was part of her aim with the character, given that his changable personality and Act III codex very much implies that he's suffering from a mood disorder.
Whether or not it was induced or exacerbated by Vengeance we don't know (and just think - if he was bipolar in Awakening, that would explain the personality change: we met him during a manic phase), but his relationship with Hawke is very familar to me as somewho who deals with that kind of problem everyday. Hawke is trying to love and support someone who is ill and who may not recover, and that we have the option to stay with him to the very end is wonderful to me. S/he would have had to learn to deal with so much **** over the three years of their relationship, that they can remain together to the end speaks so much of how strong their relationship could be.

Modifié par Threeparts, 21 avril 2011 - 01:24 .

[eleridragon]

silver-crescent wrote...

Warning, that blog can cause a serious case of brain melting. Or maybe it's just because it's 2am here.

I was actually pleasantly surprised.  I twitched slightly when I saw where the link went, but maybe it's because the only times I've had the blog linked to me before is by people using articles there as weapons in rants/arguments that I wanted no part of.

Anyway *coughs*

I was going to write stuff then looked back and realised Yami had said what I was going to, so I'll just quote that instead, with thanks

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Before I do that, I just wanted to add that I like that she said this.
Aside from saying "YES" to why the heck are people most obsessed over
why he's gay or straight, I do think his inner demons are the most
interesting, compelling part of his character. It's why his romance was
so heartbreaking. Especially his Act 3 "last three years" codex.

[Ryzaki]

Sialater wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

You guys seen this? It's Jennifer Hepler's comment on an article about how DA2 handles stuff like race, discrimination, sexuality and mental issues.

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day."

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4823

Very interesting. 

And this explains so much of my feelings on trying to help Anders fight Justice. Even if he's losing. 

And mine for the friendmance.

Just really sucks. UGH I want to see how the rivalry ending affects him. Hurry up patch 1.03!  

[Purposeof-Flight]

And I break into your regularly scheduled discussion to say:

AWWWYEAH ORSINO.
Running into him in this playthrough. D
Mm. Orsino.

[Camilladilla]

phantomdragoness wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

I completely agree with the last lines. If people could just put the romance aside and see Anders as a characters, they would see it too. My first playthtough I just went for a friendly approach, without romance. And it was really painful, even without any love involved, to see a friend fighting his inner demons, and in Act3 you could really see how much he changed and you chould feel the impending doom...I was starting to feel so sorry for him. Of course things get even worst if you are his lover, or even more in a rivalmance. 

I think that many people hate Anders just because they didn't see his character  and the pain he has been through for years, and the things he had to see mages suffer...
Sure, he is a bit "crazy", but can you blame him? He has reasons to be...this doesn't justify anything...but still...

She said "may never be able to control."

OMG YOU GUYS, THERE'S STILL HOPE!!! XD

Okay, back to business.

The one time I purely romanced Fenris (<_<), I was Anders' best friend pretty much - it felt like a case of platonic love. But indeed, you DO see how much more painful it is for Anders to just exist; the man is losing himself every day. This is why I can never really rivalmance him, because I feel like I am only making his condition worse. Crazy peope should not be stepped on, they need patience, and understanding. You have to keep them calm to "get through" to them - which is why in Dissent, Hawke just doesn't lunge at Anders as he is about to kill Ella, all Hawke does is talk calmly, and hope that Anders is strong enough to break through. Can't rush them.

Like all the good it did, right? But I get the sense that Justice is calmer if you friendmance his host.

I dunno. I hope any of that makes sense. I just woke up from a nap.

*bites tongue*

PC police nearly went off.

Regardless, yes that's essentially how I've been taught went it comes to patients with mental disorders. You don't out right disagree with them nor do you actually go along with whatever delusion they're wrapped up in. It's more like, you have to distract them.

And with my Hawke, he distracts with sex :innocent:

[YamiSnuffles]

I really, really want to keep up this conversation because I think it is worth lots of examination.

That said... I need some sort of Andersthread crack right now. All these too close to home issues are making be cry (literally).

So, sparkles? Festooning? Anybody?

[phantomdragoness]

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually snapping at Anders stops him from killing Ella just as well. At least it did on my rivalrymance. Let me reload so I can see what Hawke says exactly.  

Oh, does it? I've never gotten that far with rivalrymance...I'm too chicken. Lol. Well, it's another good case of putting your foot down, and it works!

[Ryzaki]

phantomdragoness wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually snapping at Anders stops him from killing Ella just as well. At least it did on my rivalrymance. Let me reload so I can see what Hawke says exactly.  

Oh, does it? I've never gotten that far with rivalrymance...I'm too chicken. Lol. Well, it's another good case of putting your foot down, and it works!

Yup. M!Hawke in a very commanding tone tells Anders to back down. "You are here under MY command. Not another step." 

There's a difference in being cruel and petty and being firm. You can play the rivalmance as the former but I tend to do the latter. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 avril 2011 - 01:27 .

[AquilaChrysaetos86]

YamiSnuffles wrote...
Seriously, thinking about Anders in this light is such a heart wrenching thing. It's why, though I might have wanted it, I understood why there wasn't much fluff in the relationship. The guy struggles so much throughout the game and that's got to be really hard for Hawke also.

Y'know, I think that's probably what makes him compelling to me - that struggle. He never seems to take it out on Hawke. And even on the friendship path (which I know is a somewhat contentious issue) he never seems to 'give in' in the sense that he will always take responsibility for his actions. He doesn't try to blame anyone else for what he ultimately ends up doing. His mental condition is not an excuse, ever.

This is possibly all due to my own experiences. But the fact that he takes responsibility and feels remorse about the Chantry really shows to me that he is not the monster the majority of people seem to paint him as.

[Camilladilla]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I really, really want to keep up this conversation because I think it is worth lots of examination.

That said... I need some sort of Andersthread crack right now. All these too close to home issues are making be cry (literally).

So, sparkles? Festooning? Anybody?

Awww *hugs* 

*Brings out some crack*

[Heidenreich]

mmmm man hawke..

[nekhbet]

I ranted about the mental illness aspect quite a bit a few hundred pages back. But it's interesting stuff to hear it from Hepler directly. One of the aspects of his character that really hit me, since I, too, have bipolar family members, close enough to put me in the risk group as well.

And as I said before, the reactions he gets from people are very close to what real people with mental illness get... it's really scary stuff.

[phantomdragoness]

Camilladilla wrote...

phantomdragoness wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

I completely agree with the last lines. If people could just put the romance aside and see Anders as a characters, they would see it too. My first playthtough I just went for a friendly approach, without romance. And it was really painful, even without any love involved, to see a friend fighting his inner demons, and in Act3 you could really see how much he changed and you chould feel the impending doom...I was starting to feel so sorry for him. Of course things get even worst if you are his lover, or even more in a rivalmance. 

I think that many people hate Anders just because they didn't see his character  and the pain he has been through for years, and the things he had to see mages suffer...
Sure, he is a bit "crazy", but can you blame him? He has reasons to be...this doesn't justify anything...but still...

She said "may never be able to control."

OMG YOU GUYS, THERE'S STILL HOPE!!! XD

Okay, back to business.

The one time I purely romanced Fenris (<_<), I was Anders' best friend pretty much - it felt like a case of platonic love. But indeed, you DO see how much more painful it is for Anders to just exist; the man is losing himself every day. This is why I can never really rivalmance him, because I feel like I am only making his condition worse. Crazy peope should not be stepped on, they need patience, and understanding. You have to keep them calm to "get through" to them - which is why in Dissent, Hawke just doesn't lunge at Anders as he is about to kill Ella, all Hawke does is talk calmly, and hope that Anders is strong enough to break through. Can't rush them.

Like all the good it did, right? But I get the sense that Justice is calmer if you friendmance his host.

I dunno. I hope any of that makes sense. I just woke up from a nap.

*bites tongue*

PC police nearly went off.

Regardless, yes that's essentially how I've been taught went it comes to patients with mental disorders. You don't out right disagree with them nor do you actually go along with whatever delusion they're wrapped up in. It's more like, you have to distract them.

And with my Hawke, he distracts with sex :innocent:

Lol. Mmmm...sex is VERY distracting...

...

Sorry, what were we talking about?

[YamiSnuffles]

Camilladilla wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I really, really want to keep up this conversation because I think it is worth lots of examination.

That said... I need some sort of Andersthread crack right now. All these too close to home issues are making be cry (literally).

So, sparkles? Festooning? Anybody?

Awww *hugs* 

*Brings out some crack*

*snips awesomeness*

Okay, that made me laugh out loud. Thank you for that.

[Heidenreich]

man hawke.. we were talking about man hawke. Excuse me, I need to fire up dragon age 2 now.. I'm offically in withdrawls after trying to complete my amell playthrough so I can write amell/hawke fan fiction.. and by write, I mean terribly..

Oh! Oh oh I think I have the best screenshot from that HANG ON A SECOND *digs*

[CatOfEvilGenius]

Threeparts wrote...

CatOfEvilGenius wrote...

That's the one thing I really don't like about Anders sexy time.  Justice doesn't want in on it, but isn't given a choice.  I suppose if they are mostly melded, it's more like part of Janders is opposed, but overall he's for it, which would be acceptable.

Ah, but as it's actually Anders' body, should he be forced into celibacy because the demon possessing him doesn't like sex? If Vengeance objects to it he can gtfo and find someone else to possess. <_<

Wait. Would that be a... sexorcism?

Can sexorcism be added the list of words all thread participants must learn, along with shameboner and frusterbate?  I've always thought exorcist was a silly career choice, but you have made me reconsider.

[silver-crescent]

I just want to know what Anders's letters in the future EP (if it ever happens) will say. Because at this point getting more direct character interaction seems unlikely.

[eleridragon]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I really, really want to keep up this conversation because I think it is worth lots of examination.

That said... I need some sort of Andersthread crack right now. All these too close to home issues are making be cry (literally).

So, sparkles? Festooning? Anybody?

Even though it's got the OMGDONOTWANTJOININGEYESOFDOOM.  *hugs Yami*

[nekhbet]

We're catching up with the Fenris thread, btw. 1200 posts breaking soon. You people are craaaaazy.

[Camilladilla]

nekhbet wrote...

We're catching up with the Fenris thread, btw. 1200 posts breaking soon. You people are craaaaazy.

Which is really funny since I've felt this thread has slowed down some in the past few weeks, then it picked up speed again the past few days. WHAT'S GOING ON!?



Posting that because it hasn't been posted in a while.

[silver-crescent]

I bet this thread is the most active in the whole BW boards.

Also LOL I just noticed this on the first page



It's actually oddly suiting.

[phantomdragoness]

nekhbet wrote...

We're catching up with the Fenris thread, btw. 1200 posts breaking soon. You people are craaaaazy.

Pfft. Fenris Thread can kiss my natrually white aaaaaaaa-*looks at everyone*-aaarrrrcitect?

[AquilaChrysaetos86]

Threeparts wrote...
Like Shiba5 said, this is something we've gone over before, though not in any great depth. It's fantastic to see Hepler confirming that was part of her aim with the character, given that his changable personality and Act III codex very much implies that he's suffering from a mood disorder.
Whether or not it was induced or exacerbated by Vengeance we don't know (and just think - if he was bipolar in Awakening, that would explain the personality change: we met him during a manic phase), but his relationship with Hawke is very familar to me as somewho who deals with that kind of problem everyday. Hawke is trying to love and support someone who is ill and who may not recover, and that we have the option to stay with him to the very end is wonderful to me. S/he would have had to learn to deal with so much **** over the three years of their relationship, that they can remain together to the end speaks so much of how strong their relationship could be.

To be honest, I really got the impression that he was suffering from 'bog standard' depression, for lack of a better term, in Awakenings too.
Not to get too personal, but I constantly surprise people when I tell them that I have suffered on and off with depression for the last 12 years because I am always the one cracking jokes. Nothing is ever serious. Anders has had some pretty crap things happen in his life, and he deflects it with humour. I can completely see how Vengeance could have exacerbated this. Particularly as someone said ages ago (can't remember who) that Anders is probably suffering from near constant cognitive dissonance.

Also *hugs for Yami*. I am similar right now, you're not alone, if that makes you feel any better?

Edit: Sorry for slowness guys, it's late and I want to say stuff right!

Modifié par AquilaChrysaetos86, 21 avril 2011 - 01:37 .

[Heidenreich]

So, I totally ****ing spotted Hawke in Lothering in my Amell playthrough, and snapped a screenshot. He's a little bit dirty, and his beard hasn't fully grown in yet, but TOTALLY him. This is his "I'm pretending I'm not an apostate, while still totally getting to check this chick out.. " look.. sucks that he's going to find out she's his cousin later on!