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[silver-crescent]

Anyway the whole spirit possession/mental illness thing is quite confusing, because even if the former is based on the latter, there are still some obvious differences, which make real world comparisons hard to make.

[silver-crescent]

Oh Origins... back then as long as you played your cards right, it was a guaranteed happy ending for everyone

[Inzhuna]

Not sure if you seen David's post last night, but he said he is not exactly comfortable with drawing that parallel.

[Star]

silver-crescent wrote...

Star58 wrote...
Just delurking but this caught my eye. Will have to go up and look at the original post but honestly as a mental health professional, I wouldn't have made that diagnosis (bpdo) for a number of reasons....

No? Well, I don't know music about psychology, but it seems like it's mostly manic depression, if the codex is to be believed. Not mention Anders is literally bipolar, in the sense he has 2 entities inhabiting the same body.

 lol....well 2 entities in one body smacks a lot more of Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) than Bipolar DO   

Given his history,expressed feelings and behavior I see a lot of trauma. A number of psychological states have overlapping symptoms and so part of the job is often to figure it out, much like a detective.  Trauma contains a number of elements that can look similar to BPDO but  I'd be more likely to look at complex PTSD. 

[Inzhuna]

silver-crescent wrote...

Oh Origins... back then as long as you played your cards right, it was a guaranteed happy ending for everyone

True that, although my first run was miserable. Alistair dumped my city elf and then sacrificed himself. I was pretty depressed.

The funniest (or not) thing about my 2nd DAII playthrough is that my internet was broken so I started the game second time 90% certain I could a) save Mom prevent Anders from blowing up the chantry, or and also c) if I took Beth/Carver into Deep roads they'll be okay and I get to keep them

Yeah.

Modifié par Inzhuna, 21 avril 2011 - 01:46 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Inzhuna wrote...

The thing is, there were quite a few games, including Origins, that affected me on the first playthrough, but after I learned the plot, and played subsequent runs, it didn't move me in such a way again, since I knew everything already.

With DAII, I felt miserable the first playthrough, and then on the second one (with Anders rivalmance) I felt EVEN MORE MISERABLE. No game ever done that to me before!

Oh, Origins definitely affected me. Just... less often? There were a couple of moments, especially at the end that drove me crazy. In DA2, though, I felt like nearly the whole game I was stressing over every little choice.

But I do agree that it's a bit different from other games in how it affects you in subsequent playthroughs. Once I knew what was going to happen in Origins, it was easier to face each choice. In DA2, knowing what's going to happen doesn't help much. It just creates a shadow over the whole game. Like, the start of the Anders romance was really sweet the first time, but now it's rather bittersweet. However, I don't think I'm more miserable. I think it would be hard to top how I felt the first time since in the end I literally ended up getting sick. Mostly a coincidence (I think) but it made the end of the game even harder the first time being a bit feverish and all.

[Star]

Inzhuna wrote...

I believe sela petrae comes from saltpeter, or potassium nitrate, the critical oxidizing component of gunpowder. Really, for someone who knows chemistry it must have been a dead give away from the start. (Not that Anders is very good at subtle anyway. "BOOM! And we're free!" Really, Anders?)

lol!  I'm so glad you said this.  When he first talked to my Hawke about it I facepalmed and said to myself, "does he really think I don't know he's making a bomb?"

[silver-crescent]

Inzhuna wrote...

Not sure if you seen David's post last night, but he said he is not exactly comfortable with drawing that parallel.

Yeah I know. But in Anders case Jennifer Hepler did say it was suitable.

[silver-crescent]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

The thing is, there were quite a few games, including Origins, that affected me on the first playthrough, but after I learned the plot, and played subsequent runs, it didn't move me in such a way again, since I knew everything already.

With DAII, I felt miserable the first playthrough, and then on the second one (with Anders rivalmance) I felt EVEN MORE MISERABLE. No game ever done that to me before!

Oh, Origins definitely affected me. Just... less often? There were a couple of moments, especially at the end that drove me crazy. In DA2, though, I felt like nearly the whole game I was stressing over every little choice.

But I do agree that it's a bit different from other games in how it affects you in subsequent playthroughs. Once I knew what was going to happen in Origins, it was easier to face each choice. In DA2, knowing what's going to happen doesn't help much. It just creates a shadow over the whole game. Like, the start of the Anders romance was really sweet the first time, but now it's rather bittersweet. However, I don't think I'm more miserable. I think it would be hard to top how I felt the first time since in the end I literally ended up getting sick. Mostly a coincidence (I think) but it made the end of the game even harder the first time being a bit feverish and all.

Ugh, I felt awful during my first playthrough, because I had spoiled myself and I was under the impression that things were gonna end up WAY worse than they did. The chantry was full of orphans, Anders ended up a total lunatic, etc.

[YamiSnuffles]

As to the Origins "happy ending" comment, I think this is also part of the reason DA2 affected me more in the end. I went into Origins unspoiled too, but things mostly worked out for the best. I just happened to play a silver tongued Cousland the first time, so I never had to have Alistair leave me. Then I ended up choosing to do the DR, so I never had to watch Alistair die either. It was still hard to make some of those end game decisions, but I'm one of those third choice, everything mostly works out people.

DA2, meanwhile, especially once I hit the Justice quest at the beginning of Act 3, I knew things were sort of doomed no matter what I did. Didn't help to have Anders in black looming at the balcony every time Hawke went home. >_<

[Inzhuna]

Star58 wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

I believe sela petrae comes from saltpeter, or potassium nitrate, the critical oxidizing component of gunpowder. Really, for someone who knows chemistry it must have been a dead give away from the start. (Not that Anders is very good at subtle anyway. "BOOM! And we're free!" Really, Anders?)

lol!  I'm so glad you said this.  When he first talked to my Hawke about it I facepalmed and said to myself, "does he really think I don't know he's making a bomb?"

Exactly. Even if you didn't catch on about the ingredients, just the way he says "I just drink this potion and we'll be separate" even though he spent the entire game explaining how they are inseparable is suspicious right off the bat.

I especially love when he promises this will be fully on him and it will most definitely not come back to bite you.
Oh Anders, sometimes I hate you so.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Inzhuna wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Oh Origins... back then as long as you played your cards right, it was a guaranteed happy ending for everyone

True that, although my first run was miserable. Alistair dumped my city elf and then sacrificed himself. I was pretty depressed.

The funniest (or not) thing about my 2nd DAII playthrough is that my internet was broken so I started the game second time 90% certain I could a) save Mom prevent Anders from blowing up the chantry, or and also c) if I took Beth/Carver into Deep roads they'll be okay and I get to keep them

Yeah.

I remember when Carver contracted the taint on my first playthrough, and I was not expecting that. (Anders wasn't there, Hawke had to kill him and I cried. Then reloaded, took Anders and sent him to the Grey Wardens (all the while chanting "Please pass the Joining. PleasePleasePlease...!"))

After the whole mess with the siblings, and everything going on, I thought: Nah, Leandra won't die... and then that **** happened with the blood mage... 

The voice acting was ****ing amazing. Say what you like about the female VA, she did brilliantly when following the blood trail.

And then Anders. I expected something drastic like suicide or something, I'm so glad it was just the Chantry exploding (sounds a bit cruel, but meh.)

The saddest part of Origins for me was when you spare Loghain and romanced unhardened Alistair leaves. The look on his face and the "I guess I was never meant for happiness..." Maker, why? 

[YamiSnuffles]

"And BOOM, Justice and I are free." Really Anders. Really. Just how dumb do you think Hawke is. <_<

Not that the grand cleric is helping with the whole, "I hope you found a bomb balm for you soul" business. I was just like:huh:... ...

Edit for:

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

The voice acting was ****ing amazing. Say what you like about the female VA, she did brilliantly when following the blood trail.

This! Hawkette was totally breaking my heart in that whole mission. I was already freaking out, but anytime she said anything, I was like, "Mommy noooooo!"

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 21 avril 2011 - 01:59 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

"And BOOM, Justice and I are free." Really Anders. Really. Just how dumb do you think Hawke is. <_<

Not that the grand cleric is helping with the whole, "I hope you found a bomb balm for you soul" business. I was just like:huh:... ...

Elthina knew! She knew!
She and Anders planned the whole thing! <_<

[autumnyte]

Inzhuna wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

purplecookie wrote...

My first playthrough was romancing Anders (and with one exception all subsequent playthroughs too, lol) and I couldn't understand at the time why, when finally getting to play the game I'd been looking forward to for months, I just felt so miserable. In hindsight it's of course because the game delivers one emotional gut punch after the other (in a brilliant way). As much as I love Origins (and I really do), it didn't affect my mood anywhere close to how DA2 did (and still does) and is one of the many aspects of it I enjoy

I romanced Anders on my first, unspoiled playthrough as well. It was killer. Despite that, I 'm glad I played it that way. Anders really drew me into the story and made me care about the whole mage/Templar thing in a way I never had before. My first Hawke was a 2H warrior. I had no idea what the story would be about and I didn't know who I was going to romance. Then Anders ended up being the first companion I recruited. Poor Hawke was lost after that.

I'm with you, purplecookie, in saying that though I love Origins, it never moved me as much as DA2 did.

The thing is, there were quite a few games, including Origins, that affected me on the first playthrough, but after I learned the plot, and played subsequent runs, it didn't move me in such a way again, since I knew everything already.

With DAII, I felt miserable the first playthrough, and then on the second one (with Anders rivalmance) I felt EVEN MORE MISERABLE. No game ever done that to me before!

This was my experience too. I'm on my 9th playthrough, and the story still packs an emotional punch for me. Even more so, in certain ways, due to subtle discoveries about the characters. 

[Inzhuna]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

"And BOOM, Justice and I are free." Really Anders. Really. Just how dumb do you think Hawke is. <_<

Not that the grand cleric is helping with the whole, "I hope you found a bomb balm for you soul" business. I was just like:huh:... ...

The bomb comment didn't get me since I speak British English, hehe. I saw it get mentioned a lot and I was like:blink: why are people laughing at it?

It kind of took me a few days to get it.

[purplecookie]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

As to the Origins "happy ending" comment, I think this is also part of the reason DA2 affected me more in the end. I went into Origins unspoiled too, but things mostly worked out for the best. I just happened to play a silver tongued Cousland the first time, so I never had to have Alistair leave me. Then I ended up choosing to do the DR, so I never had to watch Alistair die either. It was still hard to make some of those end game decisions, but I'm one of those third choice, everything mostly works out people.

DA2, meanwhile, especially once I hit the Justice quest at the beginning of Act 3, I knew things were sort of doomed no matter what I did. Didn't help to have Anders in black looming at the balcony every time Hawke went home. >_<

See I did manage to actually get a happy ending in my first DAO playthrough too with Alistair staying with my mage elf as they remained together in the Grey Wardens (I always thought that was pretty romantic ) and even though on my first DA2 playthrough, my Hawke didn't kill Anders and they became fugitives together (which I guess is the closest you can get to a happy ending as far as Anders's romance is concerned), it's bittersweet and still tragic. At least in my eyes, that's of course a totally subjective interpretation.

[Inzhuna]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

"And BOOM, Justice and I are free." Really Anders. Really. Just how dumb do you think Hawke is. <_<

Not that the grand cleric is helping with the whole, "I hope you found a bomb balm for you soul" business. I was just like:huh:... ...

Elthina knew! She knew!
She and Anders planned the whole thing! <_<

OMG OMG

Anders - Snape
Elthina - Dumbledore
Sebastian - Harry
???

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

The voice acting was ****ing amazing. Say what you like about the female VA, she did brilliantly when following the blood trail.

This! Hawkette was totally breaking my heart in that whole mission. I was already freaking out, but anytime she said anything, I was like, "Mommy noooooo!"

Varric is very helpful for a moment of minor comic relief on this quest.

Take Gascard DePuis along, and Varric will kill him in a cutscene.
"What? You were going to do that anyway!"

Oh, Varric. Whatever would Hawke do without his/her trusty dwarf? XD

[Sialater]

Stupid internet.  Let me quote the wrong post.

Modifié par Sialater, 21 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[Star]

Inzhuna wrote...

Star58 wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

I believe sela petrae comes from saltpeter, or potassium nitrate, the critical oxidizing component of gunpowder. Really, for someone who knows chemistry it must have been a dead give away from the start. (Not that Anders is very good at subtle anyway. "BOOM! And we're free!" Really, Anders?)

lol!  I'm so glad you said this.  When he first talked to my Hawke about it I facepalmed and said to myself, "does he really think I don't know he's making a bomb?"

Exactly. Even if you didn't catch on about the ingredients, just the way he says "I just drink this potion and we'll be separate" even though he spent the entire game explaining how they are inseparable is suspicious right off the bat.

I especially love when he promises this will be fully on him and it will most definitely not come back to bite you.
Oh Anders, sometimes I hate you so.

  I really really just wanted to hand him a good book. Something like "Conspiracy for Dummies" or "How to be a Good Conspirator".   It seemed so obvious that he was trying to be devious. First the bomb ingredients (potion?  I don't think so!), The comments you mention above and of course if you hadn't figured it out, the whole, "please come to the Chantry and distract Elthina and don't ask questions, pretty please?"  

Anders, Anders, Anders.....  I love you but honestly, please stop insulting my intelligence! 

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Inzhuna wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

"And BOOM, Justice and I are free." Really Anders. Really. Just how dumb do you think Hawke is. <_<

Not that the grand cleric is helping with the whole, "I hope you found a bomb balm for you soul" business. I was just like:huh:... ...

Elthina knew! She knew!
She and Anders planned the whole thing! <_<

OMG OMG

Anders - Snape
Elthina - Dumbledore
Sebastian - Harry
???

Circle of Magi - Hogwarts
Chantry - Death Eaters
Meredith - Voldemort

[YamiSnuffles]

purplecookie wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

As to the Origins "happy ending" comment, I think this is also part of the reason DA2 affected me more in the end. I went into Origins unspoiled too, but things mostly worked out for the best. I just happened to play a silver tongued Cousland the first time, so I never had to have Alistair leave me. Then I ended up choosing to do the DR, so I never had to watch Alistair die either. It was still hard to make some of those end game decisions, but I'm one of those third choice, everything mostly works out people.

DA2, meanwhile, especially once I hit the Justice quest at the beginning of Act 3, I knew things were sort of doomed no matter what I did. Didn't help to have Anders in black looming at the balcony every time Hawke went home. >_<

See I did manage to actually get a happy ending in my first DAO playthrough too with Alistair staying with my mage elf as they remained together in the Grey Wardens (I always thought that was pretty romantic ../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png) and even though on my first DA2 playthrough, my Hawke didn't kill Anders and they became fugitives together (which I guess is the closest you can get to a happy ending as far as Anders's romance is concerned), it's bittersweet and still tragic. At least in my eyes, that's of course a totally subjective interpretation.

Yeah, I was agreeing that it was possible- in a few different ways- to get an at least mostly happy end in DA:O. Even running off with Anders, though, is bittersweet at best. Unless there is some magical future DLC of them living on a kitten farm and the kittens cure Anders of the taint and make Vengeance into Justice again... or something

Inzhuna wrote...

Anders - Snape
Elthina - Dumbledore
Sebastian - Harry
???

Spoiler alert: Anders killed Dumbledore.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 21 avril 2011 - 02:07 .

[Inzhuna]

I think we're onto something. Like siriusly.

[purplecookie]

autumnyte wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

purplecookie wrote...

My first playthrough was romancing Anders (and with one exception all subsequent playthroughs too, lol) and I couldn't understand at the time why, when finally getting to play the game I'd been looking forward to for months, I just felt so miserable. In hindsight it's of course because the game delivers one emotional gut punch after the other (in a brilliant way). As much as I love Origins (and I really do), it didn't affect my mood anywhere close to how DA2 did (and still does) and is one of the many aspects of it I enjoy

I romanced Anders on my first, unspoiled playthrough as well. It was killer. Despite that, I 'm glad I played it that way. Anders really drew me into the story and made me care about the whole mage/Templar thing in a way I never had before. My first Hawke was a 2H warrior. I had no idea what the story would be about and I didn't know who I was going to romance. Then Anders ended up being the first companion I recruited. Poor Hawke was lost after that.

I'm with you, purplecookie, in saying that though I love Origins, it never moved me as much as DA2 did.

The thing is, there were quite a few games, including Origins, that affected me on the first playthrough, but after I learned the plot, and played subsequent runs, it didn't move me in such a way again, since I knew everything already.

With DAII, I felt miserable the first playthrough, and then on the second one (with Anders rivalmance) I felt EVEN MORE MISERABLE. No game ever done that to me before!

This was my experience too. I'm on my 9th playthrough, and the story still packs an emotional punch for me. Even more so, in certain ways, due to subtle discoveries about the characters. 

I'm so glad you've mentioned that you're on your 9th playthrough - I'm on my 5th and was wondering if that was a lot - have pretty much being starting another playthrough as soon as a current one was finished.

Actually that makes me curious, how many playthroughs are you all on? As I say, I'm on my 5th and I'm confident I'll be playing a ton more... (and probably romancing Anders in every single one!)