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[Amondra]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Amondra wrote...
Sadly that just makes me laugh at the ending now.  How sad is that?

It's to BioWare's credit that despite all the memes and lulz, and me playing certain cutscenes over and over again, the endgame sequence for The Last Straw still has the power to make my jaw drop.

My jaw drops up until I hear "Maker NOOO"  then all I can think about is that damn song.  Then Seb says waffling and then I am thinking about that song playing at I-hop....

Edit for top:

Modifié par Amondra, 22 avril 2011 - 10:06 .

[purplecookie]

Amondra wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Amondra wrote...
Sadly that just makes me laugh at the ending now.  How sad is that?

It's to BioWare's credit that despite all the memes and lulz, and me playing certain cutscenes over and over again, the endgame sequence for The Last Straw still has the power to make my jaw drop.

My jaw drops up until I hear "Maker NOOO"  then all I can think about is that damn song.  Then Seb says waffling and then I am thinking about that song playing at I-hop....

Edit for top:

*snip awesome pic*

I just completed a playthrough last night and the "Maker Noooo" bit did make me laugh (that song *shakes fist then giggles*) however I do still love how that part of the game plays out as a whole, plus when Anders starts hitting the ground with his staff... I know he's about to do bad things to the chantry but dang.

[Phenerios]

Anders is such a tool. He thinks blowing up a bunch of innocent people makes his cause just. The truth of the matter is even the seeker says that the Champion's name becomes the rallying cry for the mage revolt not his. He ends up just being another fool I had to put down for being stupid.

[mesmerizedish]

Phenerios wrote...

Anders is such a tool. He thinks blowing up a bunch of innocent people makes his cause just. The truth of the matter is even the seeker says that the Champion's name becomes the rallying cry for the mage revolt not his. He ends up just being another fool I had to put down for being stupid.

He didn't think that blowing up innocents made his cause just. He thought his cause made blowing up innocents just.

But yes, he was an idiot. But there's a reason for his idiocy, which is what makes him such an awesome character. But I'll admit that it's way more fun to think about him than it is to actually experience him.

[Amondra]

purplecookie wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Amondra wrote...
Sadly that just makes me laugh at the ending now.  How sad is that?

It's to BioWare's credit that despite all the memes and lulz, and me playing certain cutscenes over and over again, the endgame sequence for The Last Straw still has the power to make my jaw drop.

My jaw drops up until I hear "Maker NOOO"  then all I can think about is that damn song.  Then Seb says waffling and then I am thinking about that song playing at I-hop....

Edit for top:

*snip awesome pic*

I just completed a playthrough last night and the "Maker Noooo" bit did make me laugh (that song *shakes fist then giggles*) however I do still love how that part of the game plays out as a whole, plus when Anders starts hitting the ground with his staff... I know he's about to do bad things to the chantry but dang.

HAHA. I know right? When I first played through the game, I saw the Chantry thing as bad, but second time through I was clicker happy on NPC's and I found things out that made the Chantry thing seem less horrid and more like "I wanted help more!"  I also can't help but think after the Justice quest that he has his Batman robes on...Yes I think Anders is the Thedas Batman...don't judge me!

[Camilladilla]

Phenerios wrote...

Anders is such a tool. He thinks blowing up a bunch of innocent people makes his cause just. The truth of the matter is even the seeker says that the Champion's name becomes the rallying cry for the mage revolt not his. He ends up just being another fool I had to put down for being stupid.

Oh you, what bright insight you have! 

Really!

[Amondra]

Ballad of the Templars

Nine little Templars
causing lots of hate.
Al was burned by Justice,
so now it's only eight.

http://my.deviantart...sages/#/d3ekq50

[Camilladilla]

Amondra wrote...

Ballad of the Templars

Nine little Templars
causing lots of hate.
Al was burned by Justice,
so now it's only eight.

http://my.deviantart...sages/#/d3ekq50

There is... just something so completely wrong about Alrik looking that cute <_<

[mellifera]

Phenerios wrote...

Anders is such a tool. He thinks blowing up a bunch of innocent people makes his cause just. The truth of the matter is even the seeker says that the Champion's name becomes the rallying cry for the mage revolt not his. He ends up just being another fool I had to put down for being stupid.

True. It was also probably done to accomodate people who took the mage ending and killed Anders as well. Also, PC ego stroking, though after Hawke gets turned into everyone's buttmonkey by the end of the game, it's amusing. People knew Hawke's name before the whole kablooey, Anders wasn't exactly well known. Hawke, as the PC, has to be made a more important figure in legend than an NPC, but despite the whole name business Anders' actions are still more instrumental, for better or worse.

Modifié par yukidama, 22 avril 2011 - 10:46 .

[Phenerios]

Camilladilla wrote...

Phenerios wrote...

Anders is such a tool. He thinks blowing up a bunch of innocent people makes his cause just. The truth of the matter is even the seeker says that the Champion's name becomes the rallying cry for the mage revolt not his. He ends up just being another fool I had to put down for being stupid.

Oh you, what bright insight you have! 

Really!

  If I was trying to provide insight I would mention some real life examples of people doing the samething becasue they think they are just in it. I am instead expressing my distaste for the fall of a character I liked in awakenings.

yukidama wrote...
True.
It was also probably done to accomodate people who took the mage ending
and killed Anders as well. Also, PC ego stroking, though after Hawke
gets turned into everyone's buttmonkey by the end of the game, it's
amusing. Hawke, as the PC, has to be made a more important figure in legend than an NPC, but despite the whole name business Anders' actions are still more instrumental, for better or worse.

     My first play through I planned on slaughtering all the templars anyways to get my sister back. He just put them on their guard and ruined my plan.

Modifié par Phenerios, 22 avril 2011 - 10:45 .

[Amondra]

Camilladilla wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Ballad of the Templars

Nine little Templars
causing lots of hate.
Al was burned by Justice,
so now it's only eight.

http://my.deviantart...sages/#/d3ekq50

There is... just something so completely wrong about Alrik looking that cute <_<

Sadly you are right.  So I just pictured a chibby Justice there noming on his head.

[Camilladilla]

Phenerios wrote...

  If I was trying to provide insight I would mention some real life examples of people doing the samething becasue they think they are just in it. I am instead expressing my distaste for the fall of a character I liked in awakenings.

I can sympathize, I've seen many of my favourite characters taken in a totally weird direction that I didn't like and felt they were ruined. It's not really the case with Anders though for DA2, I actually really liked what Bioware did with him, Anders is really the character that has me so attached to the game for the tragedy he represents.

[Phenerios]

Camilladilla wrote...
I can sympathize, I've seen many of my favourite characters taken in a totally weird direction that I didn't like and felt they were ruined. It's not really the case with Anders though for DA2, I actually really liked what Bioware did with him, Anders is really the character that has me so attached to the game for the tragedy he represents.

   The problem is the Ander from awakenings would have never been foolish enough to merge with justice. He knew better. I can find no sympathy for those that cause their own problems when they knew full well the likely outcome. He goes on and on to Merill about how she has had dealings with a demon, when he merged with one of it's better dressed cousins.

[Miri1984]

Anders from Awakenings does very little to convince me that he's not foolish. And his attitude to Merrill IMO is very much a symptom of regret. He knows what he did was wrong and foolish and he's trying to stop her from doing the same thing:

His banter to her about "It's not a pleasant feeling you know, being an abomination" is all about trying to warn her of the inevitable end to her actions, not a rant about how much better than her he is. Some of his banter with her is downright heartbreaking when you take that into account. He's desperate for her to tell him that spirits are different to demons, so he can say what he did wasn't quite as foolish as what she's doing. She doesn't give him any hope in that regard though.

[kromify]

he's foolish, a bit crazy and a lot tragic. he's also living in a sewer healing all who come to him for free. and justice's situation was unique - he couldn't have predicted the creation of vengeance

[Phenerios]

Miri1984 wrote...

Anders from Awakenings does very little to convince me that he's not foolish. And his attitude to Merrill IMO is very much a symptom of regret. He knows what he did was wrong and foolish and he's trying to stop her from doing the same thing:

His banter to her about "It's not a pleasant feeling you know, being an abomination" is all about trying to warn her of the inevitable end to her actions, not a rant about how much better than her he is. Some of his banter with her is downright heartbreaking when you take that into account. He's desperate for her to tell him that spirits are different to demons, so he can say what he did wasn't quite as foolish as what she's doing. She doesn't give him any hope in that regard though.

 My problem isn't that he merged with the spirit and then gave Merill a hard time, it is that he turns around, and acts like the abomnation he tries to claim he isn't. My first playthrough I kind of liked the guy. I was willing to help him, and then he turns around and stabs me in the back. Sorry, but I have no love for traitors,a nd belive there is a special place reserved for them in the hells.

[kromify]

he stabs you in the back? when? he had a cause which lets face it he was never very reticent about. but he acted of his own accord without telling you so he's a traitor?

[Inzhuna]

Yes, Anders is a traitor, a murderer, a hypocrite, a liar and a lot of other things. It's not like we as his fans don't understand that. I hate what he did but I love his character.

kromify wrote...

he stabs you in the back? when? he had a
cause which lets face it he was never very reticent about. but he acted
of his own accord without telling you so he's a traitor?

He deceives you and betrays your trust, it's especially painful if you're in a romance. But he does warn you numerous times that his cause to him is more important than anything/anyone else, including you.

Modifié par Inzhuna, 22 avril 2011 - 11:30 .

[Camilladilla]

Phenerios wrote...

   The problem is the Ander from awakenings would have never been foolish enough to merge with justice. He knew better. I can find no sympathy for those that cause their own problems when they knew full well the likely outcome. He goes on and on to Merill about how she has had dealings with a demon, when he merged with one of it's better dressed cousins.

DAA Anders has always had an odd obsession with demons and spirits enough to have probably made him curious about the nature of spirits. Add to the fact that Justice was most likely heaping guilt on him given his dialogue in DA2 and Anders wanting to help out a friend, I find him accepting Justice's offer as pretty believable. I mean, DAO and DAA has always made a very clear distinction between demons and spirits, it wasn't like Anders could have predicted that Justice would be so warped by his own anger that he would turn into Vengeance.

And fine, you don't have any sympathy for Anders bringing on his own tragedy *shrugs* I happen to feel very badly for him. He's a man who tries so hard to do good, to help his own people, but he messes up so badly that he essentially ruins everything in his life and his own happiness if he's in a romance with Hawke.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Phenerios wrote...

Camilladilla wrote...
I can sympathize, I've seen many of my favourite characters taken in a totally weird direction that I didn't like and felt they were ruined. It's not really the case with Anders though for DA2, I actually really liked what Bioware did with him, Anders is really the character that has me so attached to the game for the tragedy he represents.

   The problem is the Ander from awakenings would have never been foolish enough to merge with justice. He knew better. I can find no sympathy for those that cause their own problems when they knew full well the likely outcome. He goes on and on to Merill about how she has had dealings with a demon, when he merged with one of it's better dressed cousins.

I wouldn't say Anders wasn't foolish enough... more too cynical and a little selfish.
At heart, he never struck me as a particularly "bad" person as such though. Probably the fact that he specialises in Spirit Healing.
Then Justice started to alter his attitude and views a bit, and Anders has never been the best thinker in Thedas. Like Merrill said "I knew all spirits are dangerous, it's too bad you didn't."

After the whole merging mess... well... 
I'd imagine it'd get pretty noisy in Ander's mind if he doesn't continue with the mage-revolution thing. Does he even have a choice anymore?
I sometimes wish we'd seen more of the characters development over the six/seven years...

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 22 avril 2011 - 11:31 .

[Amondra]

At the beginning I think he was still in denial about what has happened, that he can still try and save it. By the end of the game he comes to realize that he is what he hates most, and it tears him up to no end. If you are referring to the Chantry thing, he even states he didn't tell you because 1) you would try to stop him or 2) you would want to help and he didn't want the blood on your hands.

That sounds more like a friend trying to protect you from their short comings. But that is my take on it, how I feel. Everyone has their opinions on the matter, no one is going to change theirs so there is no point in fighting over it. You just look like an ass for trying to "win".

I agree with the character development.  It really fell flat, considering the game spand seven years!  Most the characters barely had one side to them I.E. Fenris.

Modifié par Amondra, 22 avril 2011 - 11:33 .

[Inzhuna]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

I wouldn't say Anders wasn't foolish enough... more too cynical and a little selfish.
At heart, he never struck me as a particularly "bad" person as such though. Probably the fact that he specialises in Spirit Healing.
Then Justice started to alter his attitude and views a bit, and Anders has never been the best thinker in Thedas. Like Merrill said "I knew all spirits are dangerous, it's too bad you didn't."

After the whole merging mess... well... 
I'd imagine it'd get pretty noisy in Ander's mind if he doesn't continue with the mage-revolution thing. Does he even have a choice anymore?
I sometimes wish we'd seen more of the characters development over the six/seven years...

I wish Justice and Anders came to Kirkwall separately and merged after. And you could witness Justice being warped by Anders' anger, and Anders losing himself.

[Miri1984]

Phenerios wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Anders from Awakenings does very little to convince me that he's not foolish. And his attitude to Merrill IMO is very much a symptom of regret. He knows what he did was wrong and foolish and he's trying to stop her from doing the same thing:

His banter to her about "It's not a pleasant feeling you know, being an abomination" is all about trying to warn her of the inevitable end to her actions, not a rant about how much better than her he is. Some of his banter with her is downright heartbreaking when you take that into account. He's desperate for her to tell him that spirits are different to demons, so he can say what he did wasn't quite as foolish as what she's doing. She doesn't give him any hope in that regard though.

 My problem isn't that he merged with the spirit and then gave Merill a hard time, it is that he turns around, and acts like the abomnation he tries to claim he isn't. My first playthrough I kind of liked the guy. I was willing to help him, and then he turns around and stabs me in the back. Sorry, but I have no love for traitors,a nd belive there is a special place reserved for them in the hells.

1.If your problem isn't that he merged with a spirit and then gave Merrill a hard time, why bring it up in your previous post?
2.He fully admits to being an abomination during party banter, and to you in conversation.
3. Him hiding his actions from you in Act III can be construed as him trying to protect you from the ramifications of said actions. (this depends on whether you are friend or rival to him, of course). However, if you do feel betrayed I can see no problem with that. He DOES betray your trust. It doesn't make him a crappy character, however.
4. You don't have to love him! It's certainly not compulsory. 

[kromify]

still not understanding the traitor thing... if you go for the templar ending and he fights you it's because you are everything he was fighting against for years. no surprise. he considers your hawke a friend who has decided to murder innocent mages - it's no wonder you get a reaction

Modifié par kromify, 22 avril 2011 - 11:37 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Inzhuna wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

I wouldn't say Anders wasn't foolish enough... more too cynical and a little selfish.
At heart, he never struck me as a particularly "bad" person as such though. Probably the fact that he specialises in Spirit Healing.
Then Justice started to alter his attitude and views a bit, and Anders has never been the best thinker in Thedas. Like Merrill said "I knew all spirits are dangerous, it's too bad you didn't."

After the whole merging mess... well... 
I'd imagine it'd get pretty noisy in Ander's mind if he doesn't continue with the mage-revolution thing. Does he even have a choice anymore?
I sometimes wish we'd seen more of the characters development over the six/seven years...

I wish Justice and Anders came to Kirkwall separately and merged after. And you could witness Justice being warped by Anders' anger, and Anders losing himself.

I think Justice was getting warped prior to DA2.
He became curious about the world, and started to learn how to experience human emotions and maybe glimpses of human desires from Kristoff.

Desires twist spirits...
I wonder if Justice wanted to stay in the physical world? As a subconsious ulterior motive?