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The Anders Thread: Flash Fic Contest! Details on Pg. 2274


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#30926
Camilladilla

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kromify wrote...

still not understanding the traitor thing... if you go for the templar ending and he fights you it's because you are everything he was fighting for for years. no surprise. he considers you hawke a friend who has decided to murder innocent mages - it's no wonder you get a reaction


It's that he uses Hawke and lies to him with this whole business about a Tevinter potion when his motives are to murder many innocent lives by Jengaing the chantry. If that's not sneaky and backstabby to you then, well... I don't know what to say. I love Anders and its moments like these that actually makes me appreciate his character more because has so many layers to him and he isn't this perfect character.

ToP: 
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Modifié par Camilladilla, 22 avril 2011 - 11:40 .


#30927
Inzhuna

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Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

I think Justice was getting warped prior to DA2.
He became curious about the world, and started to learn how to experience human emotions and maybe glimpses of human desires from Kristoff.

Desires twist spirits...
I wonder if Justice wanted to stay in the physical world? As a subconsious ulterior motive?


That's a good point, but he still was no demon.

Interesting, I like that interpretation. I also wonder how he views Anders/Hawke with regards to his opinion of Aura and Kristoff. He was afraid of being envious, because that was a demonic thing. I wonder if he was so against Anders being with Hawke because on some level he wanted it too and it scared him? Guh, I wish we could have more interacton with Justice in the game than that one scene on rivalry. Night terrors had so  much potential in this regard but nooo. <_<

Modifié par Inzhuna, 22 avril 2011 - 11:41 .


#30928
Phenerios

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Amondra wrote...

At the beginning I think he was still in denial about what has happened, that he can still try and save it. By the end of the game he comes to realize that he is what he hates most, and it tears him up to no end. If you are referring to the Chantry thing, he even states he didn't tell you because 1) you would try to stop him or 2) you would want to help and he didn't want the blood on your hands.

That sounds more like a friend trying to protect you from their short comings. But that is my take on it, how I feel. Everyone has their opinions on the matter, no one is going to change theirs so there is no point in fighting over it. You just look like an ass for trying to "win".

I agree with the character development.  It really fell flat, considering the game spand seven years!  Most the characters barely had one side to them I.E. Fenris.


   The fact that he lied to me, is a betrayal to me. I believe one of the worsts things someone can do is lying to you about something that important. By the end of the game most of your followers see you as their leader. To so blantly lie to you leader in an attempt to undermind his plans his the very essence of betrayal. No, matter his intentions the shedding of innocent blood, and the betrayal of a friends trust makes all actions null and void of meaning.

#30929
Dreaming-in-Shadow

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Phenerios wrote...

 My problem isn't that he merged with the spirit and then gave Merill a hard time, it is that he turns around, and acts like the abomnation he tries to claim he isn't. My first playthrough I kind of liked the guy. I was willing to help him, and then he turns around and stabs me in the back. Sorry, but I have no love for traitors,a nd belive there is a special place reserved for them in the hells.


You have  bad history with at least one character in every Bioware game then?
Rule of the CRPG: Somebody will betray you.

Normally I have issues with it, but certain characters who are doing it for what they believe to be a good cause (even if misguided) I can sympathise with.
Or there are characters like Aribeth, even if she was a little crazy... XD

#30930
kromify

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Camilladilla wrote...

kromify wrote...

still not understanding the traitor thing... if you go for the templar ending and he fights you it's because you are everything he was fighting for for years. no surprise. he considers you hawke a friend who has decided to murder innocent mages - it's no wonder you get a reaction


It's that he uses Hawke and lies to him with this whole business about a Tevinter potion when his motives are to murder many innocent lives by Jengaing the chantry. If that's not sneaky and backstabby to you then, well... I don't know what to say. I love Anders and its moments like these that actually makes me appreciate his character more because has so many layers to him and he isn't this perfect character.


it's certainly sneaky but he lied to protect hawke. that's not very backstabby to me.

#30931
Dreaming-in-Shadow

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Inzhuna wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

I think Justice was getting warped prior to DA2.
He became curious about the world, and started to learn how to experience human emotions and maybe glimpses of human desires from Kristoff.

Desires twist spirits...
I wonder if Justice wanted to stay in the physical world? As a subconsious ulterior motive?


That's a good point, but he still was no demon.

Interesting, I like that interpretation. I also wonder how he views Anders/Hawke with regards to his opinion of Aura and Kristoff. He was afraid of being envious, because that was a demonic thing. I wonder if he was so against Anders being with Hawke because on some level he wanted it too and it scared him? Guh, I wish we could have more interacton with Justice in the game than that one scene on rivalry. Night terrors had so  much potential in this regard but nooo. <_<


I don't know if Justice is a demon now, he may just be a very damaged spirit... very, very, very...
He seems more... "human" that any spirit encountered in the Dragon Age series...

Ah, I wanted to speak with Justice so much. He was like a disaproving in-law to me... :crying:

#30932
Miri1984

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Phenerios wrote...

Amondra wrote...

At the beginning I think he was still in denial about what has happened, that he can still try and save it. By the end of the game he comes to realize that he is what he hates most, and it tears him up to no end. If you are referring to the Chantry thing, he even states he didn't tell you because 1) you would try to stop him or 2) you would want to help and he didn't want the blood on your hands.

That sounds more like a friend trying to protect you from their short comings. But that is my take on it, how I feel. Everyone has their opinions on the matter, no one is going to change theirs so there is no point in fighting over it. You just look like an ass for trying to "win".

I agree with the character development.  It really fell flat, considering the game spand seven years!  Most the characters barely had one side to them I.E. Fenris.


   The fact that he lied to me, is a betrayal to me. I believe one of the worsts things someone can do is lying to you about something that important. By the end of the game most of your followers see you as their leader. To so blantly lie to you leader in an attempt to undermind his plans his the very essence of betrayal. No, matter his intentions the shedding of innocent blood, and the betrayal of a friends trust makes all actions null and void of meaning.


This is your personal opinion, which is great, and fine, but not necessarily how eveyone else sees it. I personally see it as an attempt by Anders to keep Hawke out of it, for whatever reason. Either because he loves/is friends with Hawke, or because he hates and doesn't trust Hawke. In the first case, it's misguided, but well intentioned, and my Hawke will forgive him for it (since she's a mage and believes in the cause, or is his friend and believes he can be redeemed or make up for it somehow) in the second case, my Hawke would kill him for it, or make sure he sees Justice in some other form (if I ever rivaled him, which I know I will eventually).

Isabela betrays you and lies to you all through Act I and Act II as well. Do you have the same reaction to her as you do to Anders?

#30933
Amondra

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Like I said opinions...everyone has one and no one wants to change theirs...

#30934
kromify

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Miri1984 wrote...

Isabela betrays you and lies to you all through Act I and Act II as well. Do you have the same reaction to her as you do to Anders?


hmm well i do... hawke protects all her friends. she has no family left

#30935
Camilladilla

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Phenerios wrote...

   The fact that he lied to me, is a betrayal to me. I believe one of the worsts things someone can do is lying to you about something that important. By the end of the game most of your followers see you as their leader. To so blantly lie to you leader in an attempt to undermind his plans his the very essence of betrayal. No, matter his intentions the shedding of innocent blood, and the betrayal of a friends trust makes all actions null and void of meaning.


You're very welcome to hate Anders and take his betrayal personally, but I don't. Keep murderknifing Anders if it keeps giving you that satisfaction. I happen to appreciate the fact that Anders is a character who has motives of his own and doesn't completely bow and scrape to Hawke's every whim.

#30936
Dreaming-in-Shadow

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Amondra wrote...

Like I said opinions...everyone has one and no one wants to change theirs...


But it never hurts to listen and learn to see things from the other side. ^_^

#30937
Inzhuna

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Amondra wrote...

Like I said opinions...everyone has one and no one wants to change theirs...


I feel like I have to quote Varric here.
"Opinions are like testicles. You kick them hard enough, it doesn't matter how many you've got" :P

#30938
Camilladilla

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Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Like I said opinions...everyone has one and no one wants to change theirs...


But it never hurts to listen and learn to see things from the other side. ^_^


Truth, I've changed many a opinion over a well thought out argument :)

#30939
Amondra

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Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Like I said opinions...everyone has one and no one wants to change theirs...


But it never hurts to listen and learn to see things from the other side. ^_^


I go on a war path to easily.  So staying out of things like this normally keep me sane.

#30940
Dreaming-in-Shadow

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kromify wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Isabela betrays you and lies to you all through Act I and Act II as well. Do you have the same reaction to her as you do to Anders?


hmm well i do... hawke protects all her friends. she has no family left


And this is my Hawke's reason for running off with Anders.

Mine is that I grew far too attached to him in Awakenings, and didn't want to kill him... Besides: The drama!
(Also, watching Seb throw a hissy fit... always cracks me up. Everything Elthina taught him goes out the window~! :lol:)

#30941
Inzhuna

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Camilladilla wrote...

Image IPB


Hahaha this is awesome. :lol:

#30942
Amondra

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Inzhuna wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Like I said opinions...everyone has one and no one wants to change theirs...


I feel like I have to quote Varric here.
"Opinions are like testicles. You kick them hard enough, it doesn't matter how many you've got" :P



I love you forever, for using the greatest quote of all time! Leave it to Varric to make sense of everything.

#30943
Miri1984

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kromify wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Isabela betrays you and lies to you all through Act I and Act II as well. Do you have the same reaction to her as you do to Anders?


hmm well i do... hawke protects all her friends. she has no family left


I love Izzy and forgive her and FIGHT THE DAMN ARISHOK for her even though she's technically betrayed me. Because she's my friend. It's what friends do. Same with Anders.

And really, when it gets down to it, Isabela's actions killed a hell of a lot of people. Maybe not in the long term as many as Anders will (considering the war he's hoping to spark) but certainly more than one Chantry full. And possibly even more, considering the Arishok has promised the Qunari will return and I DON'T think he meant to exchange crocheting patterns.

#30944
Dreaming-in-Shadow

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Amondra wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Like I said opinions...everyone has one and no one wants to change theirs...


But it never hurts to listen and learn to see things from the other side. ^_^


I go on a war path to easily.  So staying out of things like this normally keep me sane.


I know the feeling, when I get to the point where neutrality goes off the radar, it's time to GTFO of the argument before I start screaming bloody murder...

#30945
Dreaming-in-Shadow

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Inzhuna wrote...

Camilladilla wrote...

Image IPB


Hahaha this is awesome. :lol:


lol.
NO!
We do not want a new cat! We want kitty!Fenris Ser-Pounce-a-lot back! Even if he's probably died of old age by now

#30946
Amondra

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Well I am off to bed before I go I will say just this....
....
Shameboners

#30947
Inzhuna

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So, did anyone draw Anders as Ginny yet?

#30948
Phenerios

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Miri1984 wrote...

kromify wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Isabela betrays you and lies to you all through Act I and Act II as well. Do you have the same reaction to her as you do to Anders?


hmm well i do... hawke protects all her friends. she has no family left


I love Izzy and forgive her and FIGHT THE DAMN ARISHOK for her even though she's technically betrayed me. Because she's my friend. It's what friends do. Same with Anders.

And really, when it gets down to it, Isabela's actions killed a hell of a lot of people. Maybe not in the long term as many as Anders will (considering the war he's hoping to spark) but certainly more than one Chantry full. And possibly even more, considering the Arishok has promised the Qunari will return and I DON'T think he meant to exchange crocheting patterns.


  She does her best to make it right. The Arishok was going to attack Kirkwall anyways. He had made up his mind on that point no matter what. And she never lied to me, she told the truth, but in a way that it wasn't very clear. Now, see I have yet to flame anyones opnion or bad mouth anyone. I am just adding to a discussion on a forum, in a thread that had no one stating the otherside of the coin.

   Anders never shows remorse or asks to be forgiving. He knows that he deserves the death that I give him, but I believe he deserves more. I believe he should be thrown in a pit bound with the families of his victims. Let them decided if he is worthy of redemption, but there isn't time for that. So, one most settle for a quick death.

#30949
berelinde

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Miri1984 wrote...

kromify wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Isabela betrays you and lies to you all through Act I and Act II as well. Do you have the same reaction to her as you do to Anders?


hmm well i do... hawke protects all her friends. she has no family left


I love Izzy and forgive her and FIGHT THE DAMN ARISHOK for her even though she's technically betrayed me. Because she's my friend. It's what friends do. Same with Anders.

And really, when it gets down to it, Isabela's actions killed a hell of a lot of people. Maybe not in the long term as many as Anders will (considering the war he's hoping to spark) but certainly more than one Chantry full. And possibly even more, considering the Arishok has promised the Qunari will return and I DON'T think he meant to exchange crocheting patterns.

Very, very true.

If the Arishok was right, Isabela's actions will have caused the death of more people than Anders' in the long term. When it's all said and done, there are probably more people in Kirkwall than mages in all of Thedas. Yet she doesn't generate nearly the hate that Anders does. Which leads me to believe that the haters were just looking for a reason. Logic never enters into it, and logic is not going to change anyone's mind.

(shrugs)

I wish Anders had proven to be more popular because it would have improved the odds of Anders DLC, but the haters don't have to ruin my enjoyment of the game. In my Kirkwall, Hawke will forgive Anders anything.

#30950
Inzhuna

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Phenerios wrote...

  She does her best to make it right. The Arishok was going to attack Kirkwall anyways. He had made up his mind on that point no matter what. And she never lied to me, she told the truth, but in a way that it wasn't very clear. Now, see I have yet to flame anyones opnion or bad mouth anyone. I am just adding to a discussion on a forum, in a thread that had no one stating the otherside of the coin.

   Anders never shows remorse or asks to be forgiving. He knows that he deserves the death that I give him, but I believe he deserves more. I believe he should be thrown in a pit bound with the families of his victims. Let them decided if he is worthy of redemption, but there isn't time for that. So, one most settle for a quick death.


Isabela never lied? WAT.
Arishok attacked Kirkwall because he was stuck there for years and couldn't bear it. Why was he stuck there? Because of Isabela. It was directly her fault.