57020 réponses à ce sujet

[BlastedLands]

Rheia1234 wrote...

As much as I love Anders, and want to see him in future DLC and what not, I think it may be canon that he died. The shear number of people that killed him in the 'Did you kill Anders?' thread is huge.

One can hope though, right?

I dunno, I really didn't think killing him was necessary and neither did my husband who didn't even romance him...guess we might be part of the minority.

i noticed too, but i can't quite understand. none of my buddies who played the game killed him (and i suspect very few of them romanced him...) and they all had quite rational explanations.
also i think that with hawkes background you should have at least *some* sympathy to his cause, regardless of chosen class... i definitely felt slightly nudged to the mage corner, and so, again, did most of the people i talked to about the game. huh.

Modifié par Haerja, 20 mars 2011 - 02:50 .

[Reverie]

Threeparts wrote...

That said, if they need to bring him back, they already have a precedent in Justice's presence. What's a knife in the back compared with a templar sword through the chest, right?

I think that is what really makes me question him being dead.

[Eydris Ivo]

On the positive side though, even if we don't get to see Anders post-ending in DLC, there seems to be a huge amount of people wanting a DLC to expand the romance stories within the game.

I would be very happy with that.

[Eydris Ivo]

Reverie wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

That said, if they need to bring him back, they already have a precedent in Justice's presence. What's a knife in the back compared with a templar sword through the chest, right?

I think that is what really makes me question him being dead.

See, I agree with this. I think he may not be dead if someone chose to kill him. Whether or not Bioware will play that route, I don't know.

[DeaHamlet]

SurelyForth wrote...

SupR G wrote...

Well, I definitely killed him.. since he was a horrible companion. From start to finish, he never changed, never faltered and constantly just whined about the chantry, circle and upholding the whole "rebel mage" persona. At the same time, his whole "Justice" side was completely underdeveloped. I loved him in Awakening, but it was just brutal to watch him in this game. I was happy to kill him.

Actually, he did change throughout the game. As the situation grew more dire, he grew increasingly paranoid and bi-polar. Characters actually comment on this in banter. And, as he tells Hawke in Act 2, he is the cause of mages. He has made it so personal that it's exactly how he sees himself. Not every character becomes who the PC wants them to be, just like not every person will agree with you in IRL. This is especially appropriate in DA2 where the people who follow Hawke are just friends and Hawke is an independent agent/sword for hire. 

And the Justice side isn't underdeveloped, it's just subtle. Justice isn't manifesting himself outwardly to Hawke all the time, but he's definitely impacting Anders' mental state. I think that having Justice be like Companion .5 would have been too hammy.

Mostly unrelated- I did the side-with-the-templars, set him free ending last night. After the confrontation at the Gallows, Fenris rushed him (Fenris has never done that in battle before, he even beat Hawke) and killed him before Hawke could get close. It was too heartbreaking for me, so I let the others finish off the rest of the mages and reloaded.

But not before I noted that Anders' body had disappeared, while the others remained. 

o.O I gotta admit... it's fitting that Fenris would kill Anders.  

Love that his body disappeared!  Maybe it's all "mages all look the same to you, hmmm?"... yet again.  

(I doubt it, but I can dream, yeah?)

[Nivilant]

Haerja wrote...

Rheia1234 wrote...

As much as I love Anders, and want to see him in future DLC and what not, I think it may be canon that he died. The shear number of people that killed him in the 'Did you kill Anders?' thread is huge.

One can hope though, right?

I dunno, I really didn't think killing him was necessary and neither did my husband who didn't even romance him...guess we might be part of the minority.

i noticed too, but i can't quite understand. none of my buddies who played the game killed him (and i suspect very few of them romanced him...) and they all had quite rational explanations.
also i think that with hawkes background you should have at least *some* sympathy to his cause, regardless of chosen class... i definitely felt slightly nudged to the mage corner, and so, again, did most of the people i talked to about the game. huh.

From the things people who killed him have said to me, it was an instant gut reaction to someone killing so many people (even though the chantry seemed pretty empty to me). Problem is, Hawke and the Warden can kill far more people than that on a selfish whim, and when that's done players think it's funny. 'Oh Warden, what are you like, you crazy psycho.'

I've heard a lot of arguments for saving him and for killing him. In general the 'don't kill' arguments seem more structured than the 'kill' ones. That's not me being a fangirl by the way. I like the complexity of his character and if I truly thought he should die, then I'd do it regardless of whether I liked him or not.

I also see people making the real world comparisons a lot. Which kind of makes go 'huh?' If we're comparing the game to reality there are far worse things to complain about, but it's not reality so that argument should be left at the door. I think.

[SurelyForth]

Oooh, for those who love their Warrior!Hawke/Anders pairing, here's a super nifty fanart. It's totally my desktop wallpaper now.

[snarkycleric]

Nivilant wrote...


I also see people making the real world comparisons a lot. Which kind of makes go 'huh?' If we're comparing the game to reality there are far worse things to complain about, but it's not reality so that argument should be left at the door. I think.

This. My Warden has done far more horrible things in her time, and every Hawke and Warden has the potential to kill far more people than Anders did. I think it's in part the sheer horror of watching the Chantry explode (the visual impact always gets more people), too.

[TripLight]

SurelyForth wrote...

Oooh, for those who love their Warrior!Hawke/Anders pairing, here's a super nifty fanart. It's totally my desktop wallpaper now.

Set as desktop...<3:wub:

[BlastedLands]

Nivilant wrote...
 (even though the chantry seemed pretty empty to me)

oh, hey, i thought the same, good to know i'm not alone. of course people died, but i definitely didn't see "teh MASS slaughter!!11":?

Modifié par Haerja, 20 mars 2011 - 03:05 .

[crotti]

snarkycleric wrote...

Nivilant wrote...


I also see people making the real world comparisons a lot. Which kind of makes go 'huh?' If we're comparing the game to reality there are far worse things to complain about, but it's not reality so that argument should be left at the door. I think.

This. My Warden has done far more horrible things in her time, and every Hawke and Warden has the potential to kill far more people than Anders did. I think it's in part the sheer horror of watching the Chantry explode (the visual impact always gets more people), too.

... I set Amaranthine on fire when I played Awakening for the first time "XD
As soon as I saw the burning man I decided that I'd never do that again... <_<"  This is by far the worst thing I have done in any game... And other people think it's "fun" to kill the wounded soldier in the Wilds at the beginning of Origins... Yet they call Anders a terrorist and a horrible person...

[Nivilant]

TripLight wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Oooh, for those who love their Warrior!Hawke/Anders pairing, here's a super nifty fanart. It's totally my desktop wallpaper now.

Set as desktop...<3:wub:

Yep, same.

Warrior Hawke is my favourite choice for Anders, because of the lack of drive for the mage cause. Sure, you could get involved to protect Beth, but you're not being personally hunted so there's no survival drive. You do it because you love this man and don't want to see him work alone to free people like him. (That's how I played it anyway)

Ah, but if only it were Male Hawke. I suppose I could imagine it's a very short, weedy Male Hawke.

[SurelyForth]

crotti wrote...

snarkycleric wrote...

Nivilant wrote...


I also see people making the real world comparisons a lot. Which kind of makes go 'huh?' If we're comparing the game to reality there are far worse things to complain about, but it's not reality so that argument should be left at the door. I think.

This. My Warden has done far more horrible things in her time, and every Hawke and Warden has the potential to kill far more people than Anders did. I think it's in part the sheer horror of watching the Chantry explode (the visual impact always gets more people), too.

... I set Amaranthine on fire when I played Awakening for the first time "XD
As soon as I saw the burning man I decided that I'd never do that again... <_<"  This is by far the worst thing I have done in any game... And other people think it's "fun" to kill the wounded soldier in the Wilds at the beginning of Origins... Yet they call Anders a terrorist and a horrible person...

Even better, Anders is horrified at the idea of burning Amaranthine and says that if they abandon it with even one innocent person inside, they're no better than the darkspawn. 

What a ****ing psychotic ****.

[snarkycleric]

SurelyForth wrote...

Even better, Anders is horrified at the idea of burning Amaranthine and says that if they abandon it with even one innocent person inside, they're no better than the darkspawn.

This. This was one of the things that struck me most about his character in Awakening. I liked him well enough because he had a sense of humour, but the thing that really hit me the hardest about his character was the sheer amount of compassion. I said this in the DA:A Anders thread, but I cannot imagine anything my Hawke does to him being worse than what Anders will do to himself, emotionally, every single day, for the death of even one innocent person in the Chantry. I cannot imagine that he thought it was right, or good, to blow it up, only that it was necessary.

I don't think that makes him a horrible person. I think it makes him a desperate one.

[crotti]

SurelyForth wrote...

crotti wrote...

snarkycleric wrote...

Nivilant wrote...


I also see people making the real world comparisons a lot. Which kind of makes go 'huh?' If we're comparing the game to reality there are far worse things to complain about, but it's not reality so that argument should be left at the door. I think.

This. My Warden has done far more horrible things in her time, and every Hawke and Warden has the potential to kill far more people than Anders did. I think it's in part the sheer horror of watching the Chantry explode (the visual impact always gets more people), too.

... I set Amaranthine on fire when I played Awakening for the first time "XD
As soon as I saw the burning man I decided that I'd never do that again... <_<"  This is by far the worst thing I have done in any game... And other people think it's "fun" to kill the wounded soldier in the Wilds at the beginning of Origins... Yet they call Anders a terrorist and a horrible person...

Even better, Anders is horrified at the idea of burning Amaranthine and says that if they abandon it with even one innocent person inside, they're no better than the darkspawn. 

What a ****ing psychotic ****.

I still blame Justice. XD
Or... both... or.... >_< this is so.... so... AAARRRGHH ...

BW are you happy now?

[TripLight]

crotti wrote...

snarkycleric wrote...

Nivilant wrote...


I also see people making the real world comparisons a lot. Which kind of makes go 'huh?' If we're comparing the game to reality there are far worse things to complain about, but it's not reality so that argument should be left at the door. I think.

This. My Warden has done far more horrible things in her time, and every Hawke and Warden has the potential to kill far more people than Anders did. I think it's in part the sheer horror of watching the Chantry explode (the visual impact always gets more people), too.

... I set Amaranthine on fire when I played Awakening for the first time "XD
As soon as I saw the burning man I decided that I'd never do that again... <_<"  This is by far the worst thing I have done in any game... And other people think it's "fun" to kill the wounded soldier in the Wilds at the beginning of Origins... Yet they call Anders a terrorist and a horrible person...

HYPOCRITE, n. One who, profession virtues that he does not respect
secures the advantage of seeming to be what he depises (Quote by -
Ambrose Pierce)

Modifié par TripLight, 20 mars 2011 - 03:17 .

[Sarah1281]

snarkycleric wrote...

Nivilant wrote...


I also see people making the real world comparisons a lot. Which kind of makes go 'huh?' If we're comparing the game to reality there are far worse things to complain about, but it's not reality so that argument should be left at the door. I think.

This. My Warden has done far more horrible things in her time, and every Hawke and Warden has the potential to kill far more people than Anders did. I think it's in part the sheer horror of watching the Chantry explode (the visual impact always gets more people), too.

I don't think my Warden or Hawke ever ddi anything more horrible than blowing up a Chantry. I mean, what kind of actions are we talking about? Killing half of Haven? I think that was strictly self-defense. I didn't destroy Redcliffe, annul the Circle, slaughter the Dalish or the werewolves...just because they have the potential to do these things in the game doesn't mean that the Warden or Hawke are automatically responsible for the actions they may not take. Anders probably could have blown up a far bigger area than he did and thus killed far more people so should we hold him responsible for those extra lives he didn't take? 

I think there definitely is something to the gut reaction thing but I like that. Meredith was running off to go slaughter all the mages and Orsino dashed off to go rally his people. Sure, you can leave the game paused for weeks while you try to make the best possibly decision but the game does a good job of making the situation feel urgent. I had to make a decision right there and the decision I made five minutes after seeing Anders take out the Chantry was to kill him.

I still love Anders, of course, but that's just how that played out.

[Nivilant]

Sarah1281 wrote...

snarkycleric wrote...

Nivilant wrote...


I also see people making the real world comparisons a lot. Which kind of makes go 'huh?' If we're comparing the game to reality there are far worse things to complain about, but it's not reality so that argument should be left at the door. I think.

This. My Warden has done far more horrible things in her time, and every Hawke and Warden has the potential to kill far more people than Anders did. I think it's in part the sheer horror of watching the Chantry explode (the visual impact always gets more people), too.

I don't think my Warden or Hawke ever ddi anything more horrible than blowing up a Chantry. I mean, what kind of actions are we talking about? Killing half of Haven? I think that was strictly self-defense. I didn't destroy Redcliffe, annul the Circle, slaughter the Dalish or the werewolves...just because they have the potential to do these things in the game doesn't mean that the Warden or Hawke are automatically responsible for the actions they may not take. Anders probably could have blown up a far bigger area than he did and thus killed far more people so should we hold him responsible for those extra lives he didn't take? 

I think there definitely is something to the gut reaction thing but I like that. Meredith was running off to go slaughter all the mages and Orsino dashed off to go rally his people. Sure, you can leave the game paused for weeks while you try to make the best possibly decision but the game does a good job of making the situation feel urgent. I had to make a decision right there and the decision I made five minutes after seeing Anders take out the Chantry was to kill him.

I still love Anders, of course, but that's just how that played out.

Well I wasn't really limiting it to the PCs. Thedas in general seems a bloody awful place to live.

I'm not saying what he did was nice (and Maker we're covering this over and over. Getting a bit weary of discussing it. It's like the Genophage all over again). I'm simply saying that a lot of people's rage over it seems a bit...excessive I suppose. Maybe I'm de-sensitized.

[crotti]

Nivilant wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

snarkycleric wrote...

Nivilant wrote...


I also see people making the real world comparisons a lot. Which kind of makes go 'huh?' If we're comparing the game to reality there are far worse things to complain about, but it's not reality so that argument should be left at the door. I think.

This. My Warden has done far more horrible things in her time, and every Hawke and Warden has the potential to kill far more people than Anders did. I think it's in part the sheer horror of watching the Chantry explode (the visual impact always gets more people), too.

I don't think my Warden or Hawke ever ddi anything more horrible than blowing up a Chantry. I mean, what kind of actions are we talking about? Killing half of Haven? I think that was strictly self-defense. I didn't destroy Redcliffe, annul the Circle, slaughter the Dalish or the werewolves...just because they have the potential to do these things in the game doesn't mean that the Warden or Hawke are automatically responsible for the actions they may not take. Anders probably could have blown up a far bigger area than he did and thus killed far more people so should we hold him responsible for those extra lives he didn't take? 

I think there definitely is something to the gut reaction thing but I like that. Meredith was running off to go slaughter all the mages and Orsino dashed off to go rally his people. Sure, you can leave the game paused for weeks while you try to make the best possibly decision but the game does a good job of making the situation feel urgent. I had to make a decision right there and the decision I made five minutes after seeing Anders take out the Chantry was to kill him.

I still love Anders, of course, but that's just how that played out.

Well I wasn't really limiting it to the PCs. Thedas in general seems a bloody awful place to live.

I'm not saying what he did was nice (and Maker we're covering this over and over. Getting a bit weary of discussing it. It's like the Genophage all over again). I'm simply saying that a lot of people's rage over it seems a bit...excessive I suppose. Maybe I'm de-sensitized.

And here we go again...
"Anders is great!" - "Anders is sexy!" - "He killed so many people!" - "Yes I hate him!" - "He  did it because of Justice" - "No, he is blablabla" - "Yes, you're right but..." - "Look - Fanart!"  -  "Yay!"  -  "I miss Ser Pounce D:"
... and so on xD

[Eydris Ivo]

Yeah I burned Amaranthine first in Awakenings, felt like total crap, had to reload after I did the Vigil fight.

It's not the fangirl in me speaking either, as my husband did the same thing and he is FAR from an Anders fanboi and we seem to agree on the points. Which is good, if we both took separate sides in DA2 I'm sure some interesting conversations would ensue.

It would be a rivalmance...

Modifié par Rheia1234, 20 mars 2011 - 03:33 .

[snarkycleric]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I didn't destroy Redcliffe, annul the Circle, slaughter the Dalish or the werewolves...just because they have the potential to do these things in the game doesn't mean that the Warden or Hawke are automatically responsible for the actions they may not take.

I apologise if it came off wrong - if your Warden never did something like that, then, well, no, I'm not going to hold the Warden responsible, either. My point was that you had the choice to do it; that if you wished to, your Warden could annul the Circle, or slaughter the Dalish or the werewolves without giving them a chance to talk it out. (I'm not counting Haven, because as you said, that's self-defense), which - well, it's a hard choice, but then the Dragon Age games have been full of hard choices.

You can burn down Amaranthine - not because you're a raging pyromaniac who wants to kill everything in sight (although that's certainly possible), but simply because there is no other choice given what you're told by the darkspawn messenger - save Amaranthine, or save the Keep, and saving the Keep will save more people.

Anders' own decision seems pretty much in line for the choices you can make in the game, that's all - except that instead of you making it, a NPC made it.

tl;dr yeah, I'm also in the 'I think some people are over-reacting camp', and here are my reasons why. 

Now, to get things off the depressing track... [goes to look for kitten stuff]. 

Modifié par snarkycleric, 20 mars 2011 - 03:36 .

[Eydris Ivo]

Anders with his earring to cheer everyone up!

[crotti]

See? XD

Now we'll adore him until someone (new) mentions the Chantry. Again. XD

Not that I disapprove of Anders screenshots/fanart
..
I want to draw something new D: 
I mean ... what would you like to see in a story (comic) with Anders? XD

Modifié par crotti, 20 mars 2011 - 03:40 .

[snarkycleric]

Crotti wrote...

Now we'll adore him until someone (new) mentions the Chantry. Again. XD

Given the fact that the game's still shiny and new, this is going to go on for a long, long time. XD

But yeah. I apologize for perpetuating the cycle. I shall now go back to staring at Anders.

[Eydris Ivo]

crotti wrote...

See? XD

Now we'll adore him until someone (new) mentions the Chantry. Again. XD

We had some -interesting- conversation in the chat last night about the Chantry...and what to do there....

*coughs*