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[Ninche]

Ryzaki wrote...


I don't want Anders to stop crusading for mage freedom. Even my most pro-chantry people at the end of the rivalry mance see that some mages deserve to be free, some are good people, some are horrible people (those are the ones who should be watched). No one should be torn away from their parents and told that they're evil day in and day out. But to them full out freedom was never going to be the answer. They wanted Anders to acknowledge that some mages are better off in circles. Some aren't but some are. 

I want him to do it in a way that doesn't involve him and him alone making decisions for mages as a whole. 

His cause to me was too...extreme.Hawke wanted him to temper the views a little. To work with other people, to let Hawke help him instead of trying to bottle it up inside. 

Well Uldred (that's his name right?) is the proof that the circle doesn't contain or prevent blood mages from striking out and killing innocents. Obviously some mages are evil and should be watched but I still think the circle system fails and needs to be changed. I get what you're saying about wanting Anders to admit there are mental blood thirsty monster mages that need to be locked up, and I believe he does that - he openly hates blood magic and continuously expresses his disappoitment and anger at mages who turn into abominations. 
I do agree that full freedom would just not work for mages, I'm not sure that's what Anders wanted tho, all he keeps saying is that the circle isn't a solution and he's right. 

Edit: Some Anders for the top



Hehe in case you haven't seen this one too it's like one of my ALL TIME favs: 



And here's the artist: enchantedtiki.deviantart.com/

Modifié par Ninche, 25 avril 2011 - 09:19 .

[ipgd]

silver-crescent wrote...

Well, assuming people have been going pro-templar or pro-mage the whole game (and thus rivaling or befriending Anders) chances are they're gonna stick with their chosen side until the end.

You can rival Anders as a "**** the cause get money" Hawke and side with the mages.

[silver-crescent]

signcherie wrote...

Ms. Hepler is totally awesome for taking the time to respond to fans' inquiries. Especially during her maternity leave.

Yeah, I felt kinda bad when I noticed she was actually on her maternity leave right now, which was only after I sent the message <_<

But yeah, it is pretty awesome. I wonder if the other writers are like that too. All in all I gotta say though, I've gained a HUGE appreciation for the DAO/DA2 writing team. I hope they all remain for DA3 and beyond.

[YamiSnuffles]

Ninche wrote...

This is a really nice picture. Do you have a link to the artist?

[silver-crescent]

ipgd wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Well, assuming people have been going pro-templar or pro-mage the whole game (and thus rivaling or befriending Anders) chances are they're gonna stick with their chosen side until the end.

You can rival Anders as a "**** the cause get money" Hawke and side with the mages.

Even so, I doubt it happens often anyway.

In the end though, siding with the mages or with the templars is the ultimate sign of friendship/rivalry I think.

[Ryzaki]

Ninche wrote...
Well Uldred (that's his name right?) is the proof that the circle doesn't contain or prevent blood mages from striking out and killing innocents. Obviously some mages are evil and should be watched but I still think the circle system fails and needs to be changed. I get what you're saying about wanting Anders to admit there are mental blood thirsty monster mages that need to be locked up, and I believe he does that - he openly hates blood magic and continuously expresses his disappoitment and anger at mages who turn into abominations. 
I do agree that full freedom would just not work for mages, I'm not sure that's what Anders wanted tho, all he keeps saying is that the circle isn't a solution and he's right. 

My problem with that is he never proposes any alternative to the circle. He keeps going on about freedom but doesn't stop to think about the bloodmages and such that would need to be kept in check. I guess he assumes the templars would still hunt them? 

It's something that Hawke really should've been able to bring up (I'm not sure why Hawke can't bring it up to be honest.) 

The circle isn't a solution but it's the one they have. He offers no alternative other than freedom. 

silver-crescent wrote...
Well, assuming people have been going pro-templar or pro-mage the whole game (and thus rivaling or befriending Anders) chances are they're gonna stick with their chosen side until the end.

There's a difference in sending mages to go live in the circle and evoking a rite of annullment for an apostate abomination blowing up the Chantry. (Then of course there's the fact that Bethany is in the Circle and Hawke has no clue that he might be able to save her from being killed with the rest of the mages). So to me in that case fighting for the mages makes sense. My Hawkes have a weak spot when it comes to their little sis. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 avril 2011 - 09:18 .

[Ninche]

silver-crescent wrote...

signcherie wrote...

Ms. Hepler is totally awesome for taking the time to respond to fans' inquiries. Especially during her maternity leave.

Yeah, I felt kinda bad when I noticed she was actually on her maternity leave right now, which was only after I sent the message <_<

But yeah, it is pretty awesome. I wonder if the other writers are like that too. All in all I gotta say though, I've gained a HUGE appreciation for the DAO/DA2 writing team. I hope they all remain for DA3 and beyond.

I feel terrible for wondering about this but if she's on a maternity leave does that mean there'll be nobody to write some Anders for his DLC D: Or the Expansion pack?? 

Maker noooooo!

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't think so. He and Justice will still be fighting each other even if you side with the mages. I'm pretty sure there would still be unique dialogue for that event as well.

There is nothing that has indicated that as of yet.  You can complete a rivalry romanced Anders if you side with the mages.

It's bugged. 

I'm pretty sure all of the dialogue leading up the scene (including JUstice blowing up the Chantry) happens before you even decide who to side with. It would make no sense if just because you sided with the mages Anders acts as though he and Justice aren't fighting for control. 

But Vengeance wouldn't be fighting against Anders in this scenario.  As long as Anders is fighting against the Templars and for the cause, Vengeance has no reason to claw around inside him and torture him.  

[Sialater]

silver-crescent wrote...

 :wizard:ATTN Fanders, here's what you all have been waiting for:

What I asked:

"As the writer of Anders, and many other aspects of DAII, I found this an interesting and thoughtful examination of what we tried to do with the game. I do find it odd, though, that Anders is not discussed in regards to the treatment of the mentally ill. For me, that is primarily what his relationship is about — the difficulties of loving and trying to help someone who struggles with a part of himself that he cannot control and may never be able to control. It is certainly the experience I drew from when writing him, and I think it uses the fantasy setting in the way I most prefer to see — providing a magical metaphor for exploring real-world problems. To me, this is the central feature of his character — not whether he is gay or straight, but the inner demons (personified as Justice/Vengeance), which both he and you, as his lover, must struggle against every day." 

I hadn't really thought of Justice/Vengeance as being an allegory to mental instability, or of there being much of a daily struggle, from playing the game (on a friendship path), save for the last codex entry. But I suppose it comes closest to a case of bipolarity/manic depression? 

Anyway, this is a very confusing thing for me, because even if it's possible to draw real world parallels, things are ultimately quite different due to the actual situation and the fact that it's fantasy setting. 

Which makes me wonder, is Justice's existence the cause of the issue, or is it his influence? Or is Justice just part of it? 

And how does the situation progress in regards of the friendship/rivalry paths? I remember reading that the friendship path leads to Anders/Justice concordance, while the rivalry path leads to further dissonance. The 2 possible romance endings are quite different. Hopeful and seemingly at peace, but still very driven Anders vs out of control/wanting to die and regretful Anders. 

Does friendship path attenuate/prevent the issues, given how they "merge", so there's less of a conflict? Do things just stabilize? Is it a downward spiral either way? Is it meant to be left to the player's interpretation? Or should we just wait and see? 
 

Jennifer Hepler's reply:

I'm glad you enjoyed the character so much. Obviously, in a fantasy setting the real world metaphors will never be exact, but I certainly always thought of Anders as being essentially bipolar and I tried to use as much real world psychology as I could (giving away of personal possessions before planning to commit suicide, etc.). I think his romance captures a lot of the joy and pain of dating someone bipolar -- he feels everything in a big way, so his love is huge and all-encompassing, as are his hates, including his self-loathing. It takes work to maintain a relationship with him, and ultimately, Hawke has to decide if it's worth it, knowing that these are burdens that will always haunt them. 

As far as friendship and rivalry, to me, the friendship path is about supporting Anders in his decisions, both to merge with Justice and everything that stems from that. Therefore, he is generally happier (more manic), and more convinced of his delusions, but is arguably a worse person (more willing to do bad things). The rivalry path is about making him see the error of his ways, so he ends up suffering more and tending more to the depressive side, but is arguably a better person who wants to make up for what he's done. Which is the "right" way is very much up to the individual player.

I cut off some bits at the beginning/ending, but nothing relevant, just greetings and whatnot.

May want to put a link to this post in the OP, Surely?

[upsettingshorts]

Anders is merged with Justice, not Prudence. Of course he has no long term plan.

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...
But Vengeance wouldn't be fighting against Anders in this scenario.  As long as Anders is fighting against the Templars and for the cause, Vengeance has no reason to claw around inside him and torture him.  

They still wouldn't suddenly merge though. Maybe instead of clawing around inside of him Vengeance will be sated? 

[Rinji the Bearded]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anders is merged with Justice, not Prudence. Of course he has no long term plan.

This is especially correct because even a befriended Anders, when allowed to live, can say "This... is not what I expected."  Anders is short-sighted to the extreme.

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
But
Vengeance wouldn't be fighting against Anders in this scenario.  As long
as Anders is fighting against the Templars and for the cause, Vengeance
has no reason to claw around inside him and torture him.  

They still wouldn't suddenly merge though. Maybe instead of clawing around inside of him Vengeance will be sated? 

It's already too late for him either way. 

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 25 avril 2011 - 09:22 .

[kromify]

silver-crescent wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

I can never justify making Anders fight with the Templars. It's not like he suddenly changes his mind about the entire issue, it seems like siding with the Templars is something Hawke forces him to do to satisfy Hawke's desire to redeem him in his/her eyes. Thedas will always hate him.

And what about if you side with the mages in a rivalry romance? He pretty much turns out the same way as he did in the friendship romance. So are we saying that choosing the Templar side is better if only to redeem Anders?

Still in the friendship camp.

I did ask if there was supposed to be a different rivalmance ending if you side with the Mages, but I think JH missunderstood my question.

It's highly likely there isn't one anyway. Fully rivalling Anders and then siding with the Mages would be a totally out of character thing to do.

i did it in-char  

constance hawke was a total biatch before anders, (BA), his love made her nicer (AA) and she decided to support him.

[Ninche]

YamiSnuffles wrote...



This is a really nice picture. Do you have a link to the artist?

The link is now in the top post ^^

[mellifera]

Which is why I find it kind of baffling that Justice didn't go ballistic when Anders is all "lol k i will side with templars if that's what you think is best". Where is he? In some sort of post-explosion orgasmic haze?

Modifié par yukidama, 25 avril 2011 - 09:22 .

[silver-crescent]

Ninche wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

signcherie wrote...

Ms. Hepler is totally awesome for taking the time to respond to fans' inquiries. Especially during her maternity leave.

Yeah, I felt kinda bad when I noticed she was actually on her maternity leave right now, which was only after I sent the message <_<

But yeah, it is pretty awesome. I wonder if the other writers are like that too. All in all I gotta say though, I've gained a HUGE appreciation for the DAO/DA2 writing team. I hope they all remain for DA3 and beyond.

I feel terrible for wondering about this but if she's on a maternity leave does that mean there'll be nobody to write some Anders for his DLC D: Or the Expansion pack?? 

Maker noooooo!

Jennifer Hepler has already written some DLC. I remember her saying it somewhere, and it says so in her DA wiki page as well.

[silver-crescent]

yukidama wrote...

Which is why I find it kind of baffling that Justice didn't go ballistic when Anders is all "lol k i will side with templars if that's what you think is best". Where is he? In some sort of post-explosion orgasmic haze?

Well Anders does say Justice is raging like a wild animal at that point, and that he doesn't know if he'll be able to control him much longer, etc.

[YamiSnuffles]

Ninche wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...



This is a really nice picture. Do you have a link to the artist?

The link is now in the top post ^^

Oh, duh, that's why the style looks familiar.
I love her foursome pic. Everyone looks so pretty.

[Inzhuna]

Thanks for posting it, silver-crescent. Although I strongly disagree that you can't rival Anders and side with mages and remain in-character. There are many, many ways to roleplay it.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Seriously.
I mean Justice comes out and rips Hawke a new one after you try to get him to rethink his actions.
You'd think he'd explode in a Justicey rage if Anders was like, "WOOO go Templars!"

[upsettingshorts]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anders is merged with Justice, not Prudence. Of course he has no long term plan.

This is especially correct because even a befriended Anders, when allowed to live, can say "This... is not what I expected."  Anders is short-sighted to the extreme.

It's interesting that one of his combat banters is "I'll show you why mages are feared."

Because his actions in Act 3 demonstrate very effectively just why change is feared.  Real change is uncomfortable, unpleasant, and often bloody and violent.  The old doesn't go quietly, and the new doesn't usher itself in politely.  That he didn't see it coming makes sense, I doubt he ever even thought about it.  It wouldn't be the first time self-anointed idealists did something rash in the name of justice and failed to account for what would happen next.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 avril 2011 - 09:29 .

[ipgd]

yukidama wrote...

Which is why I find it kind of baffling that Justice didn't go ballistic when Anders is all "lol k i will side with templars if that's what you think is best". Where is he? In some sort of post-explosion orgasmic haze?

I assume Justice is going ballistic, and he is actively fighting his influence. Which is probably a big factor contributing to the mentally unstable state he'd need to be in to choose to fight with the templars.

[mellifera]

silver-crescent wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Which is why I find it kind of baffling that Justice didn't go ballistic when Anders is all "lol k i will side with templars if that's what you think is best". Where is he? In some sort of post-explosion orgasmic haze?

Well Anders does say Justice is raging like a wild animal at that point, and that he doesn't know if he'll be able to control him much longer, etc.

That just makes it even stranger that he wouldn't come out at some point. Like, if Anders could maintain control over a raging Justice, couldn't he at some point gone to the Chantry and removed the bomb? How much time passed between then and the bombing that he is so able to control him after basically destroying everything they had worked for?

[silver-crescent]

yukidama wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Which is why I find it kind of baffling that Justice didn't go ballistic when Anders is all "lol k i will side with templars if that's what you think is best". Where is he? In some sort of post-explosion orgasmic haze?

Well Anders does say Justice is raging like a wild animal at that point, and that he doesn't know if he'll be able to control him much longer, etc.

That just makes it even stranger that he wouldn't come out at some point. Like, if Anders could maintain control over a raging Justice, couldn't he at some point gone to the Chantry and removed the bomb? How much time passed between then and the bombing that he is so able to control him after basically destroying everything they had worked for?

Yeah that part really doesn't make much sense, but I suppose it was just a necessary thing for the sake of the story.

[Ryzaki]

yukidama wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Which is why I find it kind of baffling that Justice didn't go ballistic when Anders is all "lol k i will side with templars if that's what you think is best". Where is he? In some sort of post-explosion orgasmic haze?

Well Anders does say Justice is raging like a wild animal at that point, and that he doesn't know if he'll be able to control him much longer, etc.

That just makes it even stranger that he wouldn't come out at some point. Like, if Anders could maintain control over a raging Justice, couldn't he at some point gone to the Chantry and removed the bomb? How much time passed between then and the bombing that he is so able to control him after basically destroying everything they had worked for?

Same reason Cullen doesn't arrest Anders if you snitch. 

The plot demands.