57019 réponses à ce sujet

[mellifera]

I know, and that is why I will avoid them as much as I can.

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...
It's already too late for him either way. 

Too late for him to what? 

[ipgd]

yukidama wrote...

That just makes it even stranger that he wouldn't come out at some point. Like, if Anders could maintain control over a raging Justice, couldn't he at some point gone to the Chantry and removed the bomb? How much time passed between then and the bombing that he is so able to control him after basically destroying everything they had worked for?

It's possible the ****tiness of their situation wasn't actually real to him until it happened, and he's exerting a stupendous amount of willpower to stay in control in a way he hadn't before. I doubt that could last very long, though.

[kromify]

well at least it doesn't matter to me cause i have an xbox...

edit; also very much looking forward to hepler's dlc

Modifié par kromify, 25 avril 2011 - 09:35 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
It's already too late for him either way. 

Too late for him to what? 

It's too late for Anders.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I just don't understand it...
See, I can understand the appeal of seeing Anders drop his cause for Hawke...but I thought it was made abundantly clear at the end that "Hawke will never be the most important thing in his life".
I would think Hawke would embrace that, instead of forcing Anders to drop his cause.

Who is Anders without his cause now?

Who was he before his cause?
Hell, whose cause is it!? Justice was the one who was so adamant about it...
If you take the rivalmance, live for Anders is going to be hell. It probably wont  even be worth living in that state. I've been in a similar state, Anders would be in a far worse position, battling with Vengeance in his mind.

If you take the friendmance, Anders is... dangerous. To himself, all mages and normal people alike. With Justice so closely intwined into his soul, can he even make out the grey between black and white? Will he get better? worse? Stay the same?

The safest thing to do is find a way to subdue Justice, and I don't think that's possible.

I think I'll be trying the rivalmance now.
I can actually see why some people would kill him. It's a mercy in a way...


Alarmingly, Isabela is the most insightful person on the issue.
"Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world."

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't want Anders to stop crusading for mage freedom. Even my most pro-chantry people at the end of the rivalry mance see that some mages deserve to be free, some are good people, some are horrible people (those are the ones who should be watched). No one should be torn away from their parents and told that they're evil day in and day out. But to them full out freedom was never going to be the answer. They wanted Anders to acknowledge that some mages are better off in circles. Some aren't but some are. 

I want him to do it in a way that doesn't involve him and him alone making decisions for mages as a whole. 

His cause to me was too...extreme.Hawke wanted him to temper the views a little. To work with other people, to let Hawke help him instead of trying to bottle it up inside. 

I agree, particularly with the last bit.

Though I think Justice is a big problem. A spirit is incapable of seing things from mortal eyes, and Justice sees in black an white, and even then can't differentite in a state of rage.
So is Anders capable of doing so?

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...

It's too late for Anders.

I disagree. 

[Purposeof-Flight]

That's not a surprise.

[upsettingshorts]

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

It's too late for Anders.

I disagree. 

Nothing in the entire game I've come across supports this conclusion.  Anders is gone before DA2 even starts.

[Tasmen]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

That's not a surprise.

You are sunshines and rainbows.

[kromify]

 but i want anders to be happy... :crying:

[Ninche]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Ninche wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...



This is a really nice picture. Do you have a link to the artist?

The link is now in the top post ^^

Oh, duh, that's why the style looks familiar.
I love her foursome pic. Everyone looks so pretty.

The look Anders is giving Fenris in the foursome picture turns my bones to jelly ^^ I can SO tell it was Anders and Isabella who initiated this. And I have to wonder why Hawke hasn't been included. OR maybe they're all actually in his/her bed in the estate - waiting for him/her to come home, maybe it's a dragon killing day surprise 

[Ryzaki]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

That's not a surprise.

I love to be an optimist. 

[Purposeof-Flight]

Tasmen wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

That's not a surprise.

You are sunshines and rainbows.

Am I really?

[upsettingshorts]

kromify wrote...

 but i want anders to be happy... :crying:

Find a time machine, go back and prevent the merger with Justice.  Then you might have a chance.

[Tasmen]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

That's not a surprise.

You are sunshines and rainbows.

Am I really?

And kittens.   Oh yes.

[Dunizel]

ipgd wrote...

I don't think it's about the possibility of redemption so much as the acknowledgment that his actions are something that require redemption. He'll obviously never be able to make up for it, and his agony is wasted on things he will never be able to change, but it's basically a "is it better to know the truth and be miserable or be blissfully ignorant?" thing.

This. So much. 

I did both friendly and rivalry path. I still fail to see how some people think that the rivalry aims at breaking Anders and make him a wretch. 

The only thing you have to do in a rivalry is aknowledge that some kind of education in magic, yes, even a Circle, is necessary. And just warn him, every time you can, that he has a spirit living inside him that influences his actions and he doesn't even know it sometimes. 

Really, I can't see why these points are something so terribly bad. 

silver-crescent wrote...
It's highly likely there isn't one anyway. Fully rivalling Anders and then siding with the Mages would be a totally out of character thing to do.

Not really. Through my whole rivalmance playthrough I even helped mages, I never killed Feynriel, let Ella escape. But I sent to the Circle Grace, for example. Which really, sounded like a good idea to me, she clearly wasn't so pure and innocent.
And I sided with the mages, because I wasn't making a choice between templars and Circle, I was just siding against a madwoman who was just looking for an excuse to call the Annulment.
It makes perfect sense.
A rivalmance doesn't have to go "I am absolutely pro-templar, screw you mages, you are horrible and cursed, let's tranquil you all because you are too much dangerous to live like anyone else".
 
My rivalmance was more a "I love you Anders, so be careful please, recognize you have to be aware of the spirit influence, and try to look at the other side of the coin". Which obviosuly he can't do, but that doesn't mean Hawke wouldn't want to try for Anders' good too.

I liked both romances, but I have to admit I prefer an Anders who is fully aware of his situation and recognizes it, instead of thinking everything is allright with his spirit possession problem. It might be more painful, but if I have a problem I'm happy to know that I have a person at my side fighting it with me. Anders has Hawke for this. Maybe killing him is an act of mercy, but I like to think he will understand that even try to fix that mess side by side with Hawke in whatever possible way, has its value. 

Modifié par Dunizel, 25 avril 2011 - 09:43 .

[Jean]

There is no "save Anders!" option or a "better for Anders!" option in this game.
Whatever path you go down, he's still going to be possessed and if the flow of the game is anything to go by, Vengeace is going to win.
Unless a third option decides to magically present itself, he has no happily ever after.

It's too late.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

It's too late for Anders.

I disagree. 

Nothing in the entire game I've come across supports this conclusion.  Anders is gone before DA2 even starts.

Have you been through the "Finding Nathaniel" quest? It's the closest thing to Awakening Anders in the game.

Also, Emile De Launce (or whatever his name was)
"The Ferelden circle was more fun, everybody was kissing everybody."7

Other small examples exist.

He's there underneath the Justice-frenzy.
Also, I noticed one time he criticised Izzy for the Qunari mess. Next banter, he complimented her for coming back...

[silver-crescent]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

It's too late for Anders.

I disagree. 

Nothing in the entire game I've come across supports this conclusion.  Anders is gone before DA2 even starts.

Only if by Anders you mean DA:A Anders, and that's not even the case anyway. Unless you agree to the "DA2 Anders is actually Justice controlling his body the whole time" idea or something.

[kromify]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

kromify wrote...

 but i want anders to be happy... :crying:

Find a time machine, go back and prevent the merger with Justice.  Then you might have a chance.

 DLC!!!  

[YamiSnuffles]

Ninche wrote...

The look Anders is giving Fenris in the foursome picture turns my bones to jelly ^^ I can SO tell it was Anders and Isabella who initiated this. And I have to wonder why Hawke hasn't been included. OR maybe they're all actually in his/her bed in the estate - waiting for him/her to come home, maybe it's a dragon killing day surprise 

I support this idea as DLC. Foursome for Hawke, cuz even if those four might hate each other, they're all Hawkesexual.

[highcastle]

I think it's interesting to hear Ms. Hepler's take on Anders on both a rival and friendship path. The moment I read her post about mental illness, my mind immediately went to bipolar disorder. It runs in my family, I have a lot of experience dealing with it, and Anders hit a few warning bells during my first playthrough (it's the pillow moment; I've been in this situation in real life and it was a clear indicator of bad things on the horizon for me).

What I find disappointing though is that she seems to view the rivalry path as the only way to help Anders regain control of himself. Or really, not so much the rivalry path in general, but the way it's handled in this game. I really don't agree with the Circle or sending mages there. Yes, there are valid reasons for it. But in this game, what we see and hear of the Circle, and playing as an apostate who is also the son of an apostate, I'm not comfortable with the Circle as an institution. So I tried rivaling Anders without sending mages to the Circle, mostly by telling him I think he took a big risk in taking Justice into him. This works, but Anders still assumes you're pro-templars.

And here we hit upon the limitations of the friendship/rivalry scale. It's 2 dimensional. It cannot account for the wide array of responses you could take to someone like Anders. And that's disappointing to me because I don't think Anders is completely crazy. I don't think his cause is crazy, just some of his methods. Now the fact that rivaling him seems to get the stamp of approval from his writer concerns me that siding with the templars is also viewed as the "correct" answer or even the more moral one. I'm having a hard time reconciling that with what we see in the game.

Yes, there are blood mages in Kirkwall. But there are also templars who rape mages, who rob them of their minds, and who kill them without thought. Cullen refuses to see mages as humans or elves in the beginning of the game. He basically calls them subhuman. I know the mages don't make a great case for themselves, but I truly believe the actions of a few shouldn't color an entire people.

I'm wandering off-topic here. I guess the point I'm trying to make is twofold: 1) it's sad that rivaling Anders means he assumes you're pro-templar; it would be nice to see him reacting just to your condemnation of Justice and not to mages as a whole, and 2) it's a little scary to think siding with the templars might be the more morally just stance. I might be reading too much into this. It's quite possible I am. This is what studying Lit does to you.

[Purposeof-Flight]

kromify wrote...

 but i want anders to be happy... :crying:

Anders is probably never going to be happy.

He got dragged to the Circle at a young age.
He kept escaping...but kept being taken back over and over again.
He ran into a Grey Warden. He was conscripted...so he was basically clapped into another pair of irons and given 30 years to live.
He was given a cat, it was taken away.
He merged with a spirit of Justice, which promptly turned into Vengeance.
His lover from the Circle was made Tranquil.
He had to murderknife said lover.
Depending on your choices...he could either be pining after an unrequited love, or worrying constantly that he's going to break the heart of the person he loves.
Then, at the end, he either dies or has to spend the rest of his short 20 years running for his life.

[AtreiyaN7]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

kromify wrote...

 but i want anders to be happy... :crying:

Find a time machine, go back and prevent the merger with Justice.  Then you might have a chance.

*whips out the TARDIS*