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[Sialater]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Good grief this is depressing.
I'm not sure which would be the best course if Anders survives, because we have no idea what's going to happen.
Is it wise for him to struggle on against a demon, while ignoring the cause that was once everything to him? With only the support of one man/woman to keep him going?
Or is it better to encourage his ruthless extremity, and allow him to bind himself to a spirit that not only has no place in the real world (Justice is a fine idea, but truly it doesn't exist beyond the world of ideas) - but is corrupted by hate and rage? Will that further remove him from being human? Will there actually be anything left of (what used to be) Anders there?

Ugh... maybe it would have been kinder to kill him.
I don't see Hawke and Anders' relationship surviving, but without seeing what will happen...

...fingers crossed, eh?

This is one of the best and worst things about the Dragon Age series. There is no good, or bad, and you don't always know if there will be consequences. It's like you're caught between a rock, a hard place, and in the meantime you're standing in hell.
Even the selfish courses of action don't necessarily guaranty your happiness.

*Possessed GateKeeper Voice*

There is no Happiness, only Justice.

[nekhbet]

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

I'm a horrible person, and have to admit that one of the things that I enjoy about a Friendmanced Anders is the possibilites of what happens after the end-game in regards to Hawke and Anders and their relationship.

There is something disturbingly appealing about the idea of Anders dragging Hawke down with him as the relationship progresses, even to the point where Hawke may have to compromise his/her own beliefs (or perhaps Anders' is infectious and the downward spiral is a more gradual, unconcious thing).

There's a lot of oppertunites in the game which allows for the roleplaying of Hawke's progression in that regard, I think. To make him/her just as dependant on Anders as Anders is on Hawke, and it's an interesting thing I like to play with.

With my canon Hawke, I've always imagined that after they run off together, if if they stay at eachother's side, how much can Hawke really take before he breaks?

A Rivalmance may break Anders, but a Friendmance could just as easily break Hawke, if your Hawke is the type to break, and I get a sick pleasure from that idea.

Random thoughts are random, sorry. 

The amount of tragiporn possibilities is a reason enough for me not to kill him, friend or rival. Dysfuctional relationships FTW!

[tigrina]

Hepler's reaction earlier in this thread made me think about Anders' character and his unusual situation. I thought it a good idea to share my ideas here.

--

Justice and with that Vengeance are not an ego. Justice is a spirt. A spirit is an emotion. The change from Justice to Vengeance is also an emotional one. The concept of having an emotion as entity is an interesting one.

So for me Anders merged with a very strong emotion.

If I look at this in a bipolar way; it is something which is hard to handle at best. Bipolar is typical for having emotions and moods going out of control, either way.

A person having a depression, mania or being stable is still the same person. It is the emotion that colors said person perspective in those different periods.

That means, for me, Anders has changed, significantly, with having this extra powerful emotion in his head, but it does not mean that Anders as person is totally gone. Personality and emotions are not interchangeable. Justice/Vengeance does color Anders' perception on mages specifically a great deal though. (As an aside, it does make me wonder if he could still learn to let go of the anger, it does not feel logical that this emotion only changed once with the merging. Unless the process of merging itself was the cause of said change.)

Modifié par tigrina, 26 avril 2011 - 03:51 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Just a little preview of something I was working on this morning for giggles.
Anders' Magic Animation!

[Sialater]

tigrina wrote...

Hepler's reaction earlier in this thread made me think about Anders' character and his unusual situation. I thought it a good idea to share my ideas here.

--

Justice and with that Vengeance are not an ego. Justice is a spirt. A spirit is an emotion. The change from Justice to Vengeance is also an emotional one. The concept of having an emotion as entity is an interesting one.

So for me Anders merged with a very strong emotion.

If I look at this in a bipolar way; it is something which is hard to handle at best. Bipolar is typical for having emotions and moods going out of control, either way.

A person having a depression, mania or being stable is still the same person. It is the emotion that colors said person perspective in those different periods.

That means, for me, Anders has changed, significantly, with having this extra powerful emotion in his head, but it does not mean that Anders as person is totally gone. Personality and emotions are not interchangeable. Justice/Vengeance does color Anders' perception on mages specifically a great deal though. (As an aside, it does make me wonder if he could still learn to let go of the anger, it does not feel logical that this emotion only changed once with the merging. Unless the process of merging itself was the cause of said change.)

So... Justice is an augmentation?

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

I'm a horrible person, and have to admit that one of the things that I enjoy about a Friendmanced Anders is the possibilites of what happens after the end-game in regards to Hawke and Anders and their relationship.

There is something disturbingly appealing about the idea of Anders dragging Hawke down with him as the relationship progresses, even to the point where Hawke may have to compromise his/her own beliefs (or perhaps Anders' is infectious and the downward spiral is a more gradual, unconcious thing).

There's a lot of oppertunites in the game which allows for the roleplaying of Hawke's progression in that regard, I think. To make him/her just as dependant on Anders as Anders is on Hawke, and it's an interesting thing I like to play with.

With my canon Hawke, I've always imagined that after they run off together, if if they stay at eachother's side, how much can Hawke really take before he breaks?

A Rivalmance may break Anders, but a Friendmance could just as easily break Hawke, if your Hawke is the type to break, and I get a sick pleasure from that idea.

Random thoughts are random, sorry. 

Everything on this thread is random. 

Anyway.
Having never rivalmanced Anders, I think my canon fem!Hawke is going to be utterly destroyed by their relationship. The guilt of having what is essentially mass chaos and destruction carried in her name, Kirkwall, assisting with the murder of the Chantry...

and then the mess of: "Is there anything left of the man I love?"
She's going to go insane. I hope Justice is looking out for her, because she's probably going to have a lot of nightly visitors in her life now.

m!Hawke sent him away. 
I just don't feel it's Hawke's place to decide Anders' fate, nor does Sebastian have that right.
"Death is never justice" - the one thing Elthina and I agreed on.
"Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world." - Izzy is wise.

If anybody kills Anders, it's the Warden-Commander.
Not sure why, but that's my opinion

[Inzhuna]

nekhbet wrote...

The amount of tragiporn possibilities is a reason enough for me not to kill him, friend or rival. Dysfuctional relationships FTW!

Hehe, I agree. It's one of the reasons I prefer my Hawke who rivalmanced Anders than the one who friendmanced him. It's just so unhealthy and tragic and utterly ****ed up. That is not to say that friendmance is healthy, mind you. Both paths are messed up.

edit: Also, I agree very much with this:

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
I just don't feel it's Hawke's place to decide Anders' fate, nor does Sebastian have that right.
"Death is never justice" - the one thing Elthina and I agreed on.
"Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world." - Izzy is wise.

That Anders/Isabela banter was exactly what I wanted to be able to tell Anders.

Modifié par Inzhuna, 26 avril 2011 - 03:55 .

[nekhbet]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Just a little preview of something I was working on this morning for giggles.
Anders' Magic Animation!

Wasn't summoning magic... blood magic?! 

It's very cute, however.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Just a little preview of something I was working on this morning for giggles.
Anders' Magic Animation!

lol.
The templars don't stand a chance against such cuteness! XD

[Camilladilla]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Just a little preview of something I was working on this morning for giggles.
Anders' Magic Animation!

OMG 

ilu

That is AWESOME!

[YamiSnuffles]

nekhbet wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Just a little preview of something I was working on this morning for giggles.
Anders' Magic Animation!

Wasn't summoning magic... blood magic?! 

It's very cute, however.

I don't know actually.
Regardless, it's not blood magic when you summon them with the power of pure kitten love.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 26 avril 2011 - 04:03 .

[cmessaz]

Hi guys! I had a random question, so Alistair fans call themselves Alistairians, so what are Anders fans?

I am not in here much, but I still love Anders, rivaled or friendly. I can see both sides, and will have both endings. I don't necessarily prefer one over the other, they are both fun to me. I play all my Hawkes differently, just like I did my wardens, so I can make either ending work. I get a lot of "you are doing it wrong" when I discuss him, so I usually just stay off the boards anymore.

And since I haven't contributed much to the Anders squee, here you go. I love this shot so much!

[Camilladilla]

cmessaz wrote...

Hi guys! I had a random question, so Alistair fans call themselves Alistairians, so what are Anders fans?

Fanders.

Anderstians.

[cmessaz]

Fanders!! Oh I love it! Thanks


@Yamisnuffles, I your sig so much

Modifié par cmessaz, 26 avril 2011 - 04:04 .

[TotoroTori]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Just a little preview of something I was working on this morning for giggles.
Anders' Magic Animation!

I just had to run in and de-lurk to say that is beyound cute!!!

[Inzhuna]

cmessaz wrote...

Hi guys! I had a random question, so Alistair fans call themselves Alistairians, so what are Anders fans?

I am not in here much, but I still love Anders, rivaled or friendly. I can see both sides, and will have both endings. I don't necessarily prefer one over the other, they are both fun to me. I play all my Hawkes differently, just like I did my wardens, so I can make either ending work. I get a lot of "you are doing it wrong" when I discuss him, so I usually just stay off the boards anymore.

I get you. Frankly, I'm put off by people saying rivalmancing Anders or siding with templars is always a morally wrong thing to do, or that it makes you/Hawke selfish/hypocrite/whatever. I don't like getting into arguments though so I usually stay out of those debates.

Oh, and I believe we're called Anderstians! <3

ETA: I agree with everyone, that animation is super-cute!

Modifié par Inzhuna, 26 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[Mistress Tasharra]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Everything on this thread is random. 

Anyway.
Having never rivalmanced Anders, I think my canon fem!Hawke is going to be utterly destroyed by their relationship. The guilt of having what is essentially mass chaos and destruction carried in her name, Kirkwall, assisting with the murder of the Chantry...

and then the mess of: "Is there anything left of the man I love?"
She's going to go insane. I hope Justice is looking out for her, because she's probably going to have a lot of nightly visitors in her life now.

m!Hawke sent him away. 
I just don't feel it's Hawke's place to decide Anders' fate, nor does Sebastian have that right.
"Death is never justice" - the one thing Elthina and I agreed on.
"Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world." - Izzy is wise.

If anybody kills Anders, it's the Warden-Commander.
Not sure why, but that's my opinion

Heh, I can't bring myself to Rivalmance Anders either. Sounds like your F!Hawke is right up there with my M!Hawke.

Another thought I always found interesting was that, on the Friendmanced path, merging Anders and Justice further while being a dirty enabler supporting Anders, would Justice still dissaprove of Hawke after everything was said and done?

Something tells me no, in part because of single-mindedness and agreement now going on inside Anders' head, as well as everythring Hawke has done to let it happen support it and Anders' cause. I can only imagine the consequences of such single-mindness and approval directed at Hawke.

Maybe I'm just really stuck on the idea of Anders breaking Hawke rather than the reverse. I have no idea why.

It also begs to question what Anders, assuming the above is true, would be willing to do for/to Hawke in order to keep him/her by his side, or protect him/her, among other things.

I now have very interesting plot bunnies running across my desk.

Modifié par Mistress Tasharra, 26 avril 2011 - 04:07 .

[LT123]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

*snip*

*snip*

m!Hawke sent him away. 
I just don't feel it's Hawke's place to decide Anders' fate, nor does Sebastian have that right.
"Death is never justice" - the one thing Elthina and I agreed on.
"Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world." - Izzy is wise.

If anybody kills Anders, it's the Warden-Commander.
Not sure why, but that's my opinion

So if you tell him to get out both at the box and at the Gallows (assuming you do mage ending), he runs off completely?

[TotoroTori]

Inzhuna wrote...


Oh, and I believe we're called Anderstians! <3

does this fandom have antenna's too? I feel like a alien with that name

oh yeah can I show this fanfiction off? I love it too much!
www.fanfiction.net/s/6894581/1/Tempering_Justice
<3<3<3<3

Modifié par TotoroTori, 26 avril 2011 - 04:08 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

LT123 wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

*snip*

*snip*

m!Hawke sent him away. 
I just don't feel it's Hawke's place to decide Anders' fate, nor does Sebastian have that right.
"Death is never justice" - the one thing Elthina and I agreed on.
"Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world." - Izzy is wise.

If anybody kills Anders, it's the Warden-Commander.
Not sure why, but that's my opinion

So if you tell him to get out both at the box and at the Gallows (assuming you do mage ending), he runs off completely?

He did for me.
Which is a pity, because in Awakening he proved very difficult to get rid of. XD

[Inzhuna]

Mistress Tasharra wrote...
Heh, I can't bring myself to Rivalmance Anders either. Sounds like your F!Hawke is right up there with my M!Hawke.

Another thought I always found interesting was that, on the Friendmanced path, merging Anders and Justice further while being a dirty enabler supporting Anders, would Justice still dissaprove of Hawke after everything was said and done?

Something tells me no, in part because of single-mindedness and agreement now going on inside Anders' head, as well as everythring Hawke has done to let it happen support it and Anders' cause. I can only imagine the consequences of such single-mindness and approval directed at Hawke.

Maybe I'm just really stuck on the idea of Anders breaking Hawke rather than the reverse. I have no idea why.

It also begs to question what Anders, assuming the above is true, would be willing to do for/to Hawke in order to keep him/her by his side, or protect him/her, among other things.

I know have very interesting plot bunnies running across my desk.

I agree that Justice changes his opinion of Hawke. Doesn't Anders say something to the effect of "I should have trusted you, realised that you would stand by me no matter what".
Hawke following him to whatever end, always there by his side, whilst slowly crumbling to pieces is unbelievably tragic.

[cmessaz]

Inzhuna wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Hi guys! I had a random question, so Alistair fans call themselves Alistairians, so what are Anders fans?

I am not in here much, but I still love Anders, rivaled or friendly. I can see both sides, and will have both endings. I don't necessarily prefer one over the other, they are both fun to me. I play all my Hawkes differently, just like I did my wardens, so I can make either ending work. I get a lot of "you are doing it wrong" when I discuss him, so I usually just stay off the boards anymore.

I get you. Frankly, I'm put off by people saying rivalmancing Anders or siding with templars is always a morally wrong thing to do, or that it makes you/Hawke selfish/hypocrite/whatever. I don't like getting into arguments though so I usually stay out of those debates.

Oh, and I believe we're called Anderstians! <3

ETA: I agree with everyone, that animation is super-cute!

Yeah I stay out of them too. Again I can see both sides, though they will be tragic as heck..but I like my drama, hence why my canon warden exiled unhardened Alistair while in love Seriously, it's always gonna depend on the kind of person Hawke is, and how each individual views it. I don't think there is a set right or wrong, but that is just me. What really bugs me is when people get nasty, or say silly things that make zero sense just because they hate Anders and want to justify killing him (not saying killing him isn't right either, I won't do it but I can see people doing it). No arguing for me I just wanna squee over the most awesome apostate EVER.

[Inzhuna]

TotoroTori wrote...

does this fandom have antenna's too? I feel like a alien with that name

oh yeah can I show this fanfiction off? I love it too much!
www.fanfiction.net/s/6894581/1/Tempering_Justice
<3<3<3<3

Antennas? Well, we have boners of different variety, so would that count?

Oh, and we are all crazy fans of that fic here.

[tigrina]

Sialater wrote...
So... Justice is an augmentation?

Of sorts, yes.

Rivalry/Friendship paths differ in the sense whether or not someone prefers to let emotion-by-spirit become fully part of his character, or see it as a more a 'bad influence-emotion' of himself which needs to be 'locked up and guarded'.

I think the most ideal (and not possible in game) would be somewhere in the middle. Locking up only creates outburst (if seen from a pure emotional view), while fully 'merging' makes him think that having feelings of Vengeance is actually correct. I think he needs to learn that Justices/Vengeances feelings are flawed, without locking them up.

The scary and problematic part is mostly that Vengeance can literally take over his character, not that different from how people can loose their grasp on reality when manic.

My guess would be that ultimately, if Anders could  somehow get rid of his anger, he might be more open for other ideas on the Mages issue.

There is great injustice for Mages, that much I agree with him. His extremist convictions (which are clearly fuelled by Vengeance) make it so destructive.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Everything on this thread is random. 

Anyway.
Having never rivalmanced Anders, I think my canon fem!Hawke is going to be utterly destroyed by their relationship. The guilt of having what is essentially mass chaos and destruction carried in her name, Kirkwall, assisting with the murder of the Chantry...

and then the mess of: "Is there anything left of the man I love?"
She's going to go insane. I hope Justice is looking out for her, because she's probably going to have a lot of nightly visitors in her life now.

m!Hawke sent him away. 
I just don't feel it's Hawke's place to decide Anders' fate, nor does Sebastian have that right.
"Death is never justice" - the one thing Elthina and I agreed on.
"Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world." - Izzy is wise.

If anybody kills Anders, it's the Warden-Commander.
Not sure why, but that's my opinion

Heh, I can't bring myself to Rivalmance Anders either. Sounds like your F!Hawke is right up there with my M!Hawke.

Another thought I always found interesting was that, on the Friendmanced path, merging Anders and Justice further while being a dirty enabler supporting Anders, would Justice still dissaprove of Hawke after everything was said and done?

Something tells me no, in part because of single-mindedness and agreement now going on inside Anders' head, as well as everythring Hawke has done to let it happen support it and Anders' cause. I can only imagine the consequences of such single-mindness and approval directed at Hawke.

Maybe I'm just really stuck on the idea of Anders breaking Hawke rather than the reverse. I have no idea why.

It also begs to question what Anders, assuming the above is true, would be willing to do for/to Hawke in order to keep him/her by his side, or protect him/her, among other things.

I now have very interesting plot bunnies running across my desk.

You're an Anderstian, you're addicted to angst and tragedy. 

Well? Follow the plot bunnies!