57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Kawamura]

Firefox can go suck on the sharp part of a staff.

Snarky is one of the best words in the English language. Like "adroit".

[Amondra]

Camilladilla wrote...

Amondra wrote...

I love it when you all nice and he flirts with you, I just melt.

However what I don't like is if you end up doing that and shoot him down he does get mad there is not middle ground like with Fenris where you are like "Oh no problem."

It's annoying in a gaming sense considering the rivalry hit, but his reaction at being shot down is very much in line with his personality.

I have never shot him down, I just go for the snarky or aggressive options if I don't want to romance him.  I will load up a game and see it.

[Ashwraith]

Camilladilla wrote...

It's annoying in a gaming sense considering the rivalry hit, but his reaction at being shot down is very much in line with his personality.

I just think it's funny that he pouts about it. His face is priceless (even if it does make me feel a tiny bit guilty).
BUT ANDERS YOU JUST SAID IT WAS A BAD IDEA WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK HERE

Modifié par Ashwraith, 28 avril 2011 - 07:52 .

[Camilladilla]

Ashwraith wrote...

I just think it's funny that he pouts about it. His face is priceless (even if it does make me feel a tiny bit guilty).
BUT ANDERS YOU JUST SAID IT WAS A BAD IDEA WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK HERE

The pouty face can be quite lethal.

Modifié par Camilladilla, 28 avril 2011 - 07:54 .

[Ninche]

[quote]ElleMullineux wrote...

-loveliness snip-
first time round but this time it just made me desperately sad. Which is another reason I couldn't kill Anders at the end - if Anders truly wanted to die he could have killed himself, been in the Chantry, hell ran at Meredith and let her smite him. But no, he gave me the choice. So I'll lead him, I'll guide him, and with my help and support we're going to kick some chantry arse! (I've always disliked the Chantry in the games - Lelianna *slap*).[/quote]

Wow your post made me shamelessly happy ^^ It's nice getting to read fresh emotional impressions and see the way people think. I love your reasons for sparing Anders' life - in a way so much simpler and true than some of the pro or against stuff I've read ^^ And yes, he gave you all the might and authority in the world to decide his fate , I don't care DG says he feels guilty and wants to die, when you spare him he says "Thank you for my life I will try not to make such a mess of it this time" this is enough promise and hope for me to keep my Anders <3



[/quote]

[berelinde]

Amondra wrote...

Ashwraith wrote...

I'm restarting my Andersmance character for the, I swear, thousandth time (must get everything riiiiiiight).
Am I the only one who thinks it's hilarious how, if you hit on Anders, he's all "NOOO I'LL HURT YOU STOP TEMPTING MEEEE"- and yet, if he initiates flirting (and you shoot him down), he gets all pissy and indignant about it?
Oh, Anders, I just can't win with you, can I?

I love it when you all nice and he flirts with you, I just melt.

However what I don't like is if you end up doing that and shoot him down he does get mad there is not middle ground like with Fenris where you are like "Oh no problem."

That's what I love about Anders. He needs so much. Even his martyr-like denial of his wants stems from his need to help others. Friend or rival, he needs Hawke. He needs someone to let him be Anders the man, not Justice the idea. He needs someone to cling to and remind him that he's still human. And at the core of him, that tiny selfish remnant of the old Anders sabotages his super-ego and sulks when he's rejected.

He reminds me of a character in a TV series that was out back in the 90s, Benton Fraser from Due South. Another character with a self-destructive obsession with justice, but that isn't the point. Anders reminds me of him because both are fundamentally broken in very similar ways. Both have been irreparably scarred by isolation, Fraser because he grew up alone with letters of advice instead of a father; Anders because he was torn from his family and treated like a weapon. Both are governed by their super-egos. Fraser does the Dudley Dorite thing and Anders does the rebel mage/martyr thing, but both let their Batman voice, Justice, do the talking for them. Both have supressed but not eradicated ids that make them seek sexual gratification with people who might not be good for them. I say "people," but it's only because I am talking about two characters. Both are obsessively monogamous because both are looking for that one thing that completes them. And both have fragile, undernourished egos which are tossed about and generally trampled by the forces that control their lives. Oddly enough, both are Canadian....

YouTube video of Fraser that fills in the necessary background information for those of you who aren't old farts.

And that explains my obsession with Anders. There was something about him that just hit home with me. Flawed and not always lovable, he still managed to kick me in the sympathy gland. At least now I know why.

I do realize that this post will be lost amid the usual Anders traffic. Oh well.

Edit: And both Anders and Fraser are closest to people who don't really understand them. Anders is best friends with Varric, Fraser to Vecchio/Kowalski. In one Due South episode of which I can't find a YouTube video, Fraser is standing at his window, devastated by the loss of his lover Victoria, talking to his absentee father's ghost. He says "I want -" and his father cuts him off and finishes the sentence with something Justice-y. It is clear that Fraser was going to say something completely different, but he lets it pass. It doesn't matter. His wants don't matter. Not to Justice. And Fraser the man, like Anders the man, is never going to have the opportunity to finish that sentence. But that's kind of the point of the characters.

Ah, what would a desire demon offer Anders, I wonder...

Modifié par berelinde, 28 avril 2011 - 08:43 .

[Camilladilla]

berelinde wrote...

That's what I love about Anders. He needs so much. Even his martyr-like denial of his wants stems from his need to help others. Friend or rival, he needs Hawke. He needs someone to let him be Anders the man, not Justice the idea. He needs someone to cling to and remind him that he's still human. And at the core of him, that tiny selfish remnant of the old Anders sabotages his super-ego and sulks when he's rejected.

He reminds me of a character in a TV series that was out back in the 90s, Benton Fraser from Due South. Another character with a self-destructive obsession with justice, but that isn't the point. Anders reminds me of him because both are fundamentally broken in very similar ways. Both have been irreparably scarred by isolation, Fraser because he grew up alone with letters of advice instead of a father; Anders because he was torn from his family and treated like a weapon. Both are governed by their super-egos. Fraser does the Dudley Dorite thing and Anders does the rebel mage/martyr thing, but both let their Batman voice, Justice, do the talking for them. Both have supressed but not eradicated ids that make them seek sexual gratification with people who might not be good for them. I say "people," but it's only because I am talking about two characters. Both are obsessively monogamous because both are looking for that one thing that completes them. And both have fragile, undernourished egos which are tossed about and generally trampled by the forces that control their lives. Oddly enough, both are Canadian....

YouTube video of Fraser that fills in the necessary background information for those of you who aren't old farts.

And that explains my obsession with Anders. There was something about him that just hit home with me. Flawed and not always lovable, he still managed to kick me in the sympathy gland. At least now I know why.

I do realize that this post will be lost amid the usual Anders traffic. Oh well.

I fell for Anders back in Awakening, he had me the moment he did that hand wavy thing after he torched a darkspawn. His sense of humour that he so obviously used to cover his issues got me and he essentially represented my views on the Circle to a T.

I was so delighted to learn that he was a returning character for DA2. Instead of being deterred by this vast change in character I was even more drawn in, I wanted to find out what happened to Anders for him to become so broken. It was all of his flaws, his need for someone to be there and support him and just the sheer tragedy of his character, that he's someone who's trying so hard to do something right, but the harder he tries, the worse he makes everything, that really made me fall harder for his character than even Alistair and all his dorkiness did in DAO.

[Amondra]

berelinde wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Ashwraith wrote...

I'm restarting my Andersmance character for the, I swear, thousandth time (must get everything riiiiiiight).
Am I the only one who thinks it's hilarious how, if you hit on Anders, he's all "NOOO I'LL HURT YOU STOP TEMPTING MEEEE"- and yet, if he initiates flirting (and you shoot him down), he gets all pissy and indignant about it?
Oh, Anders, I just can't win with you, can I?

I love it when you all nice and he flirts with you, I just melt.

However what I don't like is if you end up doing that and shoot him down he does get mad there is not middle ground like with Fenris where you are like "Oh no problem."

That's what I love about Anders. He needs so much. Even his martyr-like denial of his wants stems from his need to help others. Friend or rival, he needs Hawke. He needs someone to let him be Anders the man, not Justice the idea. He needs someone to cling to and remind him that he's still human. And at the core of him, that tiny selfish remnant of the old Anders sabotages his super-ego and sulks when he's rejected.

He reminds me of a character in a TV series that was out back in the 90s, Benton Fraser from Due South. Another character with a self-destructive obsession with justice, but that isn't the point. Anders reminds me of him because both are fundamentally broken in very similar ways. Both have been irreparably scarred by isolation, Fraser because he grew up alone with letters of advice instead of a father; Anders because he was torn from his family and treated like a weapon. Both are governed by their super-egos. Fraser does the Dudley Dorite thing and Anders does the rebel mage/martyr thing, but both let their Batman voice, Justice, do the talking for them. Both have supressed but not eradicated ids that make them seek sexual gratification with people who might not be good for them. I say "people," but it's only because I am talking about two characters. Both are obsessively monogamous because both are looking for that one thing that completes them. And both have fragile, undernourished egos which are tossed about and generally trampled by the forces that control their lives. Oddly enough, both are Canadian....

YouTube video of Fraser that fills in the necessary background information for those of you who aren't old farts.

And that explains my obsession with Anders. There was something about him that just hit home with me. Flawed and not always lovable, he still managed to kick me in the sympathy gland. At least now I know why.

I do realize that this post will be lost amid the usual Anders traffic. Oh well.

Due South?! OMG I loved that.

I love you now because of this post.  Also I honestly got sucked in because I relate to the character.  Like I have stated before me being bi-polar myself.  When I see Anders it is like looking into a mirror.  We go through mood swings that make normal people do double takes and we will become fanatic over things and won't stop until we feel we have finished it.  Because of that people in relationships with us can become second to whatever it is we are striving for working on.  Because we know this we try to stay out of personal relationships, but in the end we still want to feel loved and needed, and have someone tell us we arn't freaks, monster or broken.  That we are fine the way we are.  

[berelinde]

Camilladilla, you and I often have very similar views on things. This is one of those times.

And Amondra, too. And I know where you're coming from. Being bipolar myself, a lot of things make sense. But not all. At least with me, outsiders never had much influence over the roller-coaster.

Modifié par berelinde, 28 avril 2011 - 08:54 .

[Camilladilla]

Daaaw Amondra and berelinde I <3 you guys

*huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugs*



You guys are like, my late night buddies on the Anders thread when everyone else has gone to sleep and I just can't get enough Anders.

Modifié par Camilladilla, 28 avril 2011 - 08:56 .

[berelinde]

Heh. I can't get enough Anders, either. Which is weird. I never thought anything would replace my Alistair fetish.

It's good to find like minds on these threads.

[purplecookie]

berelinde wrote...

That's what I love about Anders. He needs so much. Even his martyr-like denial of his wants stems from his need to help others. Friend or rival, he needs Hawke. He needs someone to let him be Anders the man, not Justice the idea. He needs someone to cling to and remind him that he's still human. And at the core of him, that tiny selfish remnant of the old Anders sabotages his super-ego and sulks when he's rejected.

He reminds me of a character in a TV series that was out back in the 90s, Benton Fraser from Due South. Another character with a self-destructive obsession with justice, but that isn't the point. Anders reminds me of him because both are fundamentally broken in very similar ways. Both have been irreparably scarred by isolation, Fraser because he grew up alone with letters of advice instead of a father; Anders because he was torn from his family and treated like a weapon. Both are governed by their super-egos. Fraser does the Dudley Dorite thing and Anders does the rebel mage/martyr thing, but both let their Batman voice, Justice, do the talking for them. Both have supressed but not eradicated ids that make them seek sexual gratification with people who might not be good for them. I say "people," but it's only because I am talking about two characters. Both are obsessively monogamous because both are looking for that one thing that completes them. And both have fragile, undernourished egos which are tossed about and generally trampled by the forces that control their lives. Oddly enough, both are Canadian....

YouTube video of Fraser that fills in the necessary background information for those of you who aren't old farts.

And that explains my obsession with Anders. There was something about him that just hit home with me. Flawed and not always lovable, he still managed to kick me in the sympathy gland. At least now I know why.

I do realize that this post will be lost amid the usual Anders traffic. Oh well.

Edit: And both Anders and Fraser are closest to people who don't really understand them. Anders is best friends with Varric, Fraser to Vecchio/Kowalski. In one Due South episode of which I can't find a YouTube video, Fraser is standing at his window, devastated by the loss of his lover Victoria, talking to his absentee father's ghost. He says "I want -" and his father cuts him off and finishes the sentence with something Justice-y. It is clear that Fraser was going to say something completely different, but he lets it pass. It doesn't matter. His wants don't matter. Not to Justice. And Fraser the man, like Anders the man, is never going to have the opportunity to finish that sentence. But that's kind of the point of the characters.

Ah, what would a desire demon offer Anders, I wonder...

I love this post

Regarding his flirting, I love the fact that he flirts first (or at least *can* flirt first if you don't go with the "Hey you just killed your former lover and are dealing with literal inner demons you're so hot right now" option), it was nice to have a character who makes the first move. And while I can see it being frustrating for some that if he is rejected he gets annoyed/increase in rivalry, it totally makes sense to the character (at least to me)

I'm a bit of a research geek (well, a student lol) in particular attachment theory, which suggests that people hold mental models of views of self and other that are either positive or negative - how I understand Anders is that he very much has a negative model of self that he is unworthy of love/unloveable, and a positive model of others whose approval of him helps validate him as a person ie 'I see myself as unloveable and yet here is this amazing person who seems to not see me that way that means so much to me'. It's this combination of negative self/positve other that tends to bring out possessive behaviours (which I interpret as contributing towards (although of course not totally explaining) his catty-ness towards other characters who could be perceived as a threat to his relationship with Hawke, Fenris in particular), his insecurities over losing Hawke, and his intense feelings so early on in their relationship. He is someone (to me) who sees Hawke as responding positively to him (or at the very least not responding negatively by being disgusted at what he is) and he's clinging to that, 'here is this wonderful person who has accepted me and I don't ever want to lose that'. On the flipside, he makes himself vulnerable by voicing an interest and his advance is rejected - his self-esteem is going to take a big hit from that because that rejection confirms his negative self-view and he's an emotional person so is going to respond to that.

Anyway, those are my waffly thoughts

[phantomdragoness]

Amondra wrote...

Due South?! OMG I loved that.

I love you now because of this post.  Also I honestly got sucked in because I relate to the character.  Like I have stated before me being bi-polar myself.  When I see Anders it is like looking into a mirror.  We go through mood swings that make normal people do double takes and we will become fanatic over things and won't stop until we feel we have finished it.  Because of that people in relationships with us can become second to whatever it is we are striving for working on.  Because we know this we try to stay out of personal relationships, but in the end we still want to feel loved and needed, and have someone tell us we arn't freaks, monster or broken.  That we are fine the way we are.  

We all have our demons, and sometimes we can't face them alone.

"Each of us bears his own hell."
-Virgil

[Inzhuna]

purplecookie, I love your waffly thoughts and agree with them~

[Camilladilla]

purplecookie wrote...

I love this post

Regarding his flirting, I love the fact that he flirts first (or at least *can* flirt first if you don't go with the "Hey you just killed your former lover and are dealing with literal inner demons you're so hot right now" option), it was nice to have a character who makes the first move. And while I can see it being frustrating for some that if he is rejected he gets annoyed/increase in rivalry, it totally makes sense to the character (at least to me)

I'm a bit of a research geek (well, a student lol) in particular attachment theory, which suggests that people hold mental models of views of self and other that are either positive or negative - how I understand Anders is that he very much has a negative model of self that he is unworthy of love/unloveable, and a positive model of others whose approval of him helps validate him as a person ie 'I see myself as unloveable and yet here is this amazing person who seems to not see me that way that means so much to me'. It's this combination of negative self/positve other that tends to bring out possessive behaviours (which I interpret as contributing towards (although of course not totally explaining) his catty-ness towards other characters who could be perceived as a threat to his relationship with Hawke, Fenris in particular), his insecurities over losing Hawke, and his intense feelings so early on in their relationship. He is someone (to me) who sees Hawke as responding positively to him (or at the very least not responding negatively by being disgusted at what he is) and he's clinging to that, 'here is this wonderful person who has accepted me and I don't ever want to lose that'. On the flipside, he makes himself vulnerable by voicing an interest and his advance is rejected - his self-esteem is going to take a big hit from that because that rejection confirms his negative self-view and he's an emotional person so is going to respond to that.

Anyway, those are my waffly thoughts

And I  love this post as it illustrates how I view Anders, except about a billion times better.

Modifié par Camilladilla, 28 avril 2011 - 09:15 .

[purplecookie]

Thanks guys! I have to admit at first I found it jarring how emotionally intense Anders was, it seemed to be a bit unrealistic that someone would be so emotionally attached so quickly, but actually reflecting on it made me realise that, no, it makes total sense and has become one of the many reasons I love this character - his characterisation resonates so true to life and is relatable in a lot of ways.

[purplecookie]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Yay for DA2 happiness - there definitely isn't enough of it around. And now I have a mega pixel crush on Anders, which was totally unintended - I liked the look of the broody elf. Just like in DA:O I didn't even realise that Alistair was flirting with me until he gave me the rose and then... (the only down side to the new mechanic if you ask me) I'm one smitten kitten.  
I didn't spoiler myself, and I did the Justice quest quite early on... so I then spent the rest of Act 3 going "What on earth do you need salt peter for? Where's the quest where I stop him from blowing himself up in an attempt to seperate from Justice?" I was really quite panicky that I had to go into the final act without 'completing' Anders story line. Did not see blowing up the Chantry coming AT ALL. (Bearing in mind I didn't have the Seb add on either).
I wonder if there's something in the mechanics which is like hardening Alistair in DA:O? When I took him with me on Merril's final quest, and did the whole 'There's love' option, and Anders just looked at my LadyHawke all melty - well, that pulled a heart string. And the same if you tranquil Feynril with Anders in the party he says that he would never have believed it if he wasn't there. I just hope they give him a bit more perspective.

As for the whole refusing Justice's quest and Anders not wanting to tell you what he's planning... I think he knows that he couldn't love you if you did help out directly. Which is why you get +friendship points if you totally refuse to do it. And he also gets to know he hasn't corrupted you as well as Justice.  He cares.

I had no idea that either of the bolded parts happen! I haven't done Merrill's quests the last couple of playthroughs but I'm *so* going to have to do them on my current one! And also, by the time "Don't help me blow up the chantry but do" quest comes up I've always got him at 100% friendship so didn't realise that refusal gives you friendship points, that actually provides yet another really interesting (and endearing!) perspective. And I love your interpretation ElleMullineux that it's a reflection of his being happy that he hasn't corrupted the one he loves!

[Inzhuna]

I don't think I got friendship points for refusing to do "Justice". I'm pretty sure Anders got angry and I got rivalry points instead.

[Amondra]

I thought I got rivalry points when I refused...

Modifié par Amondra, 28 avril 2011 - 09:44 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

berelinde wrote...

Heh. I can't get enough Anders, either. Which is weird. I never thought anything would replace my Alistair fetish.

For me, Anders has dethroned Atton.

ATTON motherf---ing RAND.  Seriously, I thought that would never happen.

purplecookie wrote...

Thanks guys! I have to admit at first I found it jarring how emotionally intense Anders was, it seemed to be a bit unrealistic that someone would be so emotionally attached so quickly, but actually reflecting on it made me realise that, no, it makes total sense and has become one of the many reasons I love this character - his characterisation resonates so true to life and is relatable in a lot of ways.

I'm honestly surprised at how much I ended up liking Anders as a player, since IRL, I usually can't handle people that emotionally volatile.  I don't hide my feelings, but I don't declare them to the whole room either.  I tend to keep those things to myself, and someone like Anders IRL would just drain me.  And even in video games, I prefer more emotionally stable types.  But Anders stole my heart and ran away with it 

[Inzhuna]

What's this "There's love" on Merrill's quest you mention? I can't seem to remember.

[Inzhuna]

I mean what's the context? Is it when she's crying over Marethari's body?