57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Inzhuna]

Ah, ok, I remember now. Thanks! Anders wasn't in my diplomatic Hawke's party so I should try that.

[berelinde]

... someone like Anders IRL would just drain me. 

Yes, that's kind of the point. A friendship relationship with Anders is draining, and profoundly so. You feed his obsession with your love, energy, and even your soul. Isabela couldn't do it. But if you're still with Anders when the shht goes down, that means that you could deal with it. Congrats. Have fun with your possessed basket case. And I say that in the most loving tone imaginable.

[Amondra]

Off topic, but oh how I love Anders disgusted look >_> It makes me giggle so...

[Sable Rhapsody]

berelinde wrote...

... someone like Anders IRL would just drain me. 

Yes, that's kind of the point. A friendship relationship with Anders is draining, and profoundly so. You feed his obsession with your love, energy, and even your soul. Isabela couldn't do it. But if you're still with Anders when the shht goes down, that means that you could deal with it. Congrats. Have fun with your possessed basket case. And I say that in the most loving tone imaginable.

LOL.  My Hawke is a saint with her patience for him.  Though I do have to say, it's surprising what people who love you will do for you.  They'll stick with you even when YOU think you've asked too much or gone too far.  Anders does constantly express his gratitude and surprise that Hawke sticks by him.

[kromify]

purplecookie wrote...

Regarding his flirting, I love the fact that he flirts first (or at least *can* flirt first if you don't go with the "Hey you just killed your former lover and are dealing with literal inner demons you're so hot right now" option), it was nice to have a character who makes the first move. And while I can see it being frustrating for some that if he is rejected he gets annoyed/increase in rivalry, it totally makes sense to the character (at least to me)

I'm a bit of a research geek (well, a student lol) in particular attachment theory, which suggests that people hold mental models of views of self and other that are either positive or negative - how I understand Anders is that he very much has a negative model of self that he is unworthy of love/unloveable, and a positive model of others whose approval of him helps validate him as a person ie 'I see myself as unloveable and yet here is this amazing person who seems to not see me that way that means so much to me'. It's this combination of negative self/positve other that tends to bring out possessive behaviours (which I interpret as contributing towards (although of course not totally explaining) his catty-ness towards other characters who could be perceived as a threat to his relationship with Hawke, Fenris in particular), his insecurities over losing Hawke, and his intense feelings so early on in their relationship. He is someone (to me) who sees Hawke as responding positively to him (or at the very least not responding negatively by being disgusted at what he is) and he's clinging to that, 'here is this wonderful person who has accepted me and I don't ever want to lose that'. On the flipside, he makes himself vulnerable by voicing an interest and his advance is rejected - his self-esteem is going to take a big hit from that because that rejection confirms his negative self-view and he's an emotional person so is going to respond to that.

Anyway, those are my waffly thoughts

i also adore that he comes on to hawke; it's more realistic than hawke starting every romance. DG said he wouldn't do it again though... too many complaints, which is a shame. if merrill had done it there would be no problem, but now future romances have to be one sided *selfish jerks*

love the rest of your statement 

[Camilladilla]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Yeah, but he is less of a possessed basket case if you've friendmanced him - yeah he sees what needs to be done, and without Justice he probably wouldn't have the strength to do it. But at least he's less likely to become a full on abomination with love and support, than if you've rivalmanced him and forced him into conflict with himself.

A fully friendmanced Anders is probably more likely to be an abomination since the whole point of the friendmance is that you're supporting him in merging with Justice. Although I still heartily go with friendmance than rivalmance. I can't stand the idea of kicking him down when Anders is already dealing with so many issues.

Enihoo: my favourite screenshot of him thus far. It's almost like Anders is screaming at my Hawke to put the camera away.

[Ninche]

My boyfriend is almost at the chantry jenga now, and he sensed that Anders is up to something terroristy and refused to distract the grand cleric and then went "whatever he does i hope he doesnt kill the grand cleric - shes a sweet old lady" and that led to a long and exhausting discussion in which i ended up being all angry and irrational and despairing at his inability to understand why I think she's useless - I was such an Anders it HURT.

So even though I think he will side with the mages (hahaha his argument for siding with mages in he beginning of act 3 was, i quote : "Orsino is teh sex") I can see him executing Anders for bringing on a war. My better half is all about "keeping as many people alive and safe so war = BAD"

I might need your help to gather evidence and arguments to fight him in the future, I should probably put them all in writing, print them out and hide them around his room. Yes that's a a great plan =D

Modifié par Ninche, 28 avril 2011 - 10:37 .

[Amondra]

Camilladilla wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

Yeah, but he is less of a possessed basket case if you've friendmanced him - yeah he sees what needs to be done, and without Justice he probably wouldn't have the strength to do it. But at least he's less likely to become a full on abomination with love and support, than if you've rivalmanced him and forced him into conflict with himself.

A fully friendmanced Anders is probably more likely to be an abomination since the whole point of the friendmance is that you're supporting him in merging with Justice. Although I still heartily go with friendmance than rivalmance. I can't stand the idea of kicking him down when Anders is already dealing with so many issues.

Enihoo: my favourite screenshot of him thus far. It's almost like Anders is screaming at my Hawke to put the camera away.

ROFL 
"DAMN IT HAWKE THIS IS SERIOUS!!!" 

Also he is going to merge with Justice no matter what you do, so might as well make it easier for him.  Also who knows he might not end up like the abominations that we know and hate.  He still might retain himself for the most part but if he see's an injustice...well you know...

Kinda like Flemeth(I hardcore believe she did let a demon into her much like Anders did and she has become something completely different)

[Amondra]

Ninche wrote...

My boyfriend is almost at the chantry jenga now, and he sensed that Anders is up to something terroristy and refused to distract the grand cleric and then went "whatever he does i hope he doesnt kill the grand cleric - shes a sweet old lady" and that led to a long and exhausting discussion in which i ended up being all angry and irrational and despairing at his inability to understand why I think she's useless - I was such an Anders it HURT.

So even though I think he will side with the mages (hahaha his argument for siding with mages in he beginning of act 3 was, i quote : "Orsino is teh sex") I can see him executing Anders for bringing on a war. My better half is all about "keeping as many people alive and safe so war = BAD"

I might need your help to gather evidence and arguments to fight him in the future, I should probably put them all in writing, print them out and hide them around his room. Yes that's a a great plan =D

Manifesto status?

[purplecookie]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I'm honestly surprised at how much I ended up liking Anders as a player, since IRL, I usually can't handle people that emotionally volatile.  I don't hide my feelings, but I don't declare them to the whole room either.  I tend to keep those things to myself, and someone like Anders IRL would just drain me.  And even in video games, I prefer more emotionally stable types.  But Anders stole my heart and ran away with it 

We sound similar - I'm very much of the type to feel uncomfortable with emotional intensity and while on my first playtrhough I did feel uncomfortable at times with the romance, I was still drawn in and now I'm hooked. How do you do it Anders???

[MG800]

Ninche wrote...

My boyfriend is almost at the chantry jenga now, and he sensed that Anders is up to something terroristy and refused to distract the grand cleric and then went "whatever he does i hope he doesnt kill the grand cleric - shes a sweet old lady" and that led to a long and exhausting discussion in which i ended up being all angry and irrational and despairing at his inability to understand why I think she's useless - I was such an Anders it HURT.

So even though I think he will side with the mages (hahaha his argument for siding with mages in he beginning of act 3 was, i quote : "Orsino is teh sex") I can see him executing Anders for bringing on a war. My better half is all about "keeping as many people alive and safe so war = BAD"

I might need your help to gather evidence and arguments to fight him in the future, I should probably put them all in writing, print them out and hide them around his room. Yes that's a a great plan =D

"Orsino is teh sex"? Oh, I would love to hear what he'll say about his new crazy demonic harvester side  

Modifié par MG800, 28 avril 2011 - 10:46 .

[Camilladilla]

Ninche wrote...

My boyfriend is almost at the chantry jenga now, and he sensed that Anders is up to something terroristy and refused to distract the grand cleric and then went "whatever he does i hope he doesnt kill the grand cleric - shes a sweet old lady" and that led to a long and exhausting discussion in which i ended up being all angry and irrational and despairing at his inability to understand why I think she's useless - I was such an Anders it HURT.

So even though I think he will side with the mages (hahaha his argument for siding with mages in he beginning of act 3 was, i quote : "Orsino is teh sex") I can see him executing Anders for bringing on a war. My better half is all about "keeping as many people alive and safe so war = BAD"

I might need your help to gather evidence and arguments to fight him in the future, I should probably put them all in writing, print them out and hide them around his room. Yes that's a a great plan =D

The Anders Thread's Manifesto? 

1) Meredith was going to perform the Right of Annullment as early as the VERY start of Act 3. She actually went behind Elthina's back and went straight to the Divine to do this. And given how crazed was becoming I really doubt she would have waited anyway and went ahead butchered mages with or without consent. I have a feeling Anders got wind of this and might have been desperate, but that's just conjecture.

2) Elthina, while a "sweet old lady" is also the very person responsible for keeping the Knight-Commander in check. The fact that the mage vs templar business got as far as it did is also her fault as well for being completely incapable of stepping in and reigning Meredith back.

3) The Chantry and the templars are idiots. You can actually warn Cullen about the bomb and he's all "oh yeah that's nice. We'll look into it." And when you warn Elthina of the Exalted March, she also only shrugs it off while also claiming that no one would DARE touch her. You get no less than three opportunities to warn Elthina away.

4) Elthina's also partly responsible for why the tensions with the Qunari ran so high. She was aware of Petrice's activites and did nothing. In fact she actually promoted Petrice from Sister to Mother. GUH!

5) Also Elthina's a racist. If your Warden is an elf and point that out to her she'll only be like "Oh that's nice an elf can do something cute. But it was really the Maker who did it."

6) Anders wanted to start a revolution. 9.9 times out of 10, it's not possible to start a revolution without death and war.

Modifié par Camilladilla, 28 avril 2011 - 10:49 .

[purplecookie]

kromify wrote...

i also adore that he comes on to hawke; it's more realistic than hawke starting every romance. DG said he wouldn't do it again though... too many complaints, which is a shame. if merrill had done it there would be no problem, but now future romances have to be one sided *selfish jerks*

love the rest of your statement 

Thanks!  That's a real shame though that he's said he wouldn't do it again. I find it frustrating that there were complaints of Anders making a flirty first move, but there doesn't seem to be any (at least that I've seen) about the fact that Isabela flirts first too (with her "if you're looking for company later" line)

[Ninche]

Amondra wrote...

Ninche wrote...


I might need your help to gather evidence and arguments to fight him in the future, I should probably put them all in writing, print them out and hide them around his room. Yes that's a a great plan =D

Manifesto status?

- Elthina is useless = i fail to see how not doing anything for 7 years with things only getting worse is "keeping the peace" 
- The circles system is ineffective - it allows individuals like meredith to attain way too much power and authority  -  it allows abuse and still doesnt prevent crazy blood mages from striking out 
- if nothing was done in kirkwall either the right of annulement or the divine herself would have wiped mages out and nobody outside of kirkwall would ever know the truth of what happened - everyone would have just pretended everything was okay and the circles were a succesful solution 

The boyfriend doesnt even beleive there IS rape and abuse in the circles, especially in the ferelden one even tho Anders SAYS so, he just refuses to aknowledge him as a stabel source of info. -.- 

I have to say tho, this is all from a mage's point of view


Edit: *adds Camilladilla's points to manifesto*

Modifié par Ninche, 28 avril 2011 - 10:50 .

[Camilladilla]

Ninche wrote...

- Elthina is useless = i fail to see how not doing anything for 7 years with things only getting worse is "keeping the peace" 
- The circles system is ineffective - it allows individuals like meredith to attain way too much power and authority  -  it allows abuse and still doesnt prevent crazy blood mages from striking out 
- if nothing was done in kirkwall either the right of annulement or the divine herself would have wiped mages out and nobody outside of kirkwall would ever know the truth of what happened - everyone would have just pretended everything was okay and the circles were a succesful solution 

The boyfriend doesnt even beleive there IS rape and abuse in the circles, especially in the ferelden one even tho Anders SAYS so, he just refuses to aknowledge him as a stabel source of info. -.- 

I have to say tho, this is all from a mage's point of view

He didn't do Dissent? I mean Alrik doesn't right out and says he'll rape Ella, but it's so heavily implied I just wanted to wring the man's neck. Even when I was watching one of my friends play it during that scene, his first comment was "Wow, uh, is he gonna rape her?" 

Edit: Also, killing Anders will make him into a martyr, which is precisely what he wants in the first place and will only strengthen the revolution with him as this figurehead who sacrificed himself to the cause.

Modifié par Camilladilla, 28 avril 2011 - 10:53 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

purplecookie wrote...

We sound similar - I'm very much of the type to feel uncomfortable with emotional intensity and while on my first playtrhough I did feel uncomfortable at times with the romance, I was still drawn in and now I'm hooked. How do you do it Anders???

I think the fact that my Hawke is so different from me mitigated some of my initial discomfort with the romance; it worked with my Hawke's personality for her to be drawn to that kind of intensity.  As a player, though, if someone came onto me that strong IRL I'd freak out and go sprinting in the other direction.

Also, A Wizard Did It 

ElleMullineux wrote...
Yeah, but he is less of a possessed basket case if you've friendmanced him - yeah he sees what needs to be done, and without Justice he probably wouldn't have the strength to do it. But at least he's less likely to become a full on abomination with love and support, than if you've rivalmanced him and forced him into conflict with himself. 

I'd say Anders is less of a basket case, but probably not less possessed.  I agree with Hepler's assessment; he's happier and stabler on the friendship path, but more self-aware and arguably a better person on the rivalry path.  It all depends on what you think is more important for the character.  Personally, there's only so much tragedy I can stomach, so I went for the friendship path.

You can say to Wynne in DA:O that abomination is characterized by mindless savagery, and that anyone who retains their humanity is not an abomination.  That would be my litmus test as well, and by that bar, Anders fights off full-blown abomination regardless of whether you friendship or rivalry him.

[Herr Uhl]

Camilladilla wrote...

6) Anders wanted to start a revolution. 9.9 times out of 10, it's not possible to start a revolution without death and war.

I'm not going to get overly involved in this as I've been that many times before, but I don't see how this is an argument one way or another.
Edit:

Camilladilla wrote...

Edit: Also, killing Anders will make him into a martyr, which is precisely what he wants in the first place and will only strengthen the revolution with him as this figurehead who sacrificed himself to the cause. 

So the people here who don't kill him are actually hindering his purpose?

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 28 avril 2011 - 10:56 .

[Camilladilla]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Camilladilla wrote...

6) Anders wanted to start a revolution. 9.9 times out of 10, it's not possible to start a revolution without death and war.

I'm not going to get overly involved in this as I've been that many times before, but I don't see how this is an argument one way or another.
Edit:

Camilladilla wrote...

Edit: Also, killing Anders will make him into a martyr, which is precisely what he wants in the first place and will only strengthen the revolution with him as this figurehead who sacrificed himself to the cause. 

So the people here who don't kill him are actually hindering his purpose?

I see jengaing the chantry as a necessary evil in order to kick start a revolution.

And I don't know about the others in this thread, but I'm pretty certain my Hawke and Anders will be actively involved in the revolution until this little piece of headcanon's subsumed by Bioware.

Also another point is that you can actually show Alrik's papers to Elthina and she'll start babbling something about how "walking the righteous path is a difficult one"

Modifié par Camilladilla, 28 avril 2011 - 11:00 .

[Herr Uhl]

Camilladilla wrote...

I see jengaing the chantry as a necessary evil in order to kick start a revolution.

He wanted to protect as many as possible. Saying to him that it is necessary to start a war doesn't seem effective.

*points* 

Ninche wrote...
My better half is all about "keeping as many people alive and safe so war = BAD"

And I don't know about the others in this thread, but I'm pretty certain my Hawke and Anders will be actively involved in the revolution until this little piece of headcanon's subsumed by Bioware.

So if you let Anders run he doesn't get involved, or is it just the involvement of Hawke that is important?

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 28 avril 2011 - 11:07 .

[Amondra]

For all you Justice fans out there:
http://browse.devian...on age#/d3f2prt

Modifié par Amondra, 28 avril 2011 - 11:12 .

[Camilladilla]

Herr Uhl wrote...

He wanted to protect as many as possible. Saying to him that it is necessary to start a war doesn't seem effective.

You have a point there, I was pulling up points from all those wonderful and tired mage vs templar debates that pop up in these forums.

So if you let Anders run he doesn't get involved, or is it just the involvement of Hawke that is important?

He could or he could not. I was just making a point against why we don't want Ninche's SO to kill Anders. If he ends up letting Anders go then hurray.

[ladyofpayne]

The pouty face can be quite lethal.

Resist Anders fail. Always.