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[AnimeAngel90]

Random aside to rudely interrupt the Chantry discussions....

Wow, I just found DanaDuchy's video of ALL the battle comments for all companions, and wow...there's over half an hour of them!

What makes me giggle most is how sometimes they'll be yelling, and sometimes they just get all quiet (Carver seems to do the quiet ones quite a lot) - often straight after each other. Though sometimes I get confused about who's talking - I think I'm getting m!Hawke and Sebastian mixed up a few times since I don't really know their voices....

Bonus - all the dialogue for Hawke dying is first in the video. Romanced characters have a particularly heart-wrenching option D:

Anders: "No! Don't be dead! Please!" sounding all broken and desperate *wails and hugs him*

EDIT: ToP? Ohnoes! Uhh...I don't know how to put images in? 



Did that work? Yes? Good

Modifié par AnimeAngel90, 28 avril 2011 - 11:28 .

[ladyofpayne]

http://ladyofpayne.d...324058#/d3evsft
http://millibayley.d...me-05-206411262
Hawke sugestion Anders and Fenris to find one tongue. And they did it.

[Camilladilla]

ladyofpayne wrote...

http://ladyofpayne.d...324058#/d3evsft
http://millibayley.d...me-05-206411262
Hawke sugestion Anders and Fenris to find one tongue. And they did it.

lmao

I love these comics and the fact that Hawke's GOT SUCH A CREEPER FACE only makes them better.

Edit

AnimeAngel90 wrote...

EDIT: ToP? Ohnoes! Uhh...I don't know how to put images in? 

[ img ]urlhere[ / img ]

Without the spaces of course.

Like so!

Modifié par Camilladilla, 28 avril 2011 - 11:26 .

[Inzhuna]

To play devil's advocate, I wanted to point out, regarding the often brought-up point of Meredith sending for the Right of Annulment in Act 3:
The fact that she sent for it doesn't mean that the Divine would have approved. So whilst it further proves Meredith paranoia and insanity, it doesn't prove that Annulment would have been called for without Anders' actions. And if she tried to execute it without Divine's approval, I think Cullen and other good templars would have stood up to her.

[Inzhuna]

ElleMullineux wrote...

So we think - now if BW tinker with it like with ME series, how your relationship was with him might effect the aftermath? I could easily imagine a rivalmanced Anders going full abomination when Justice/Vengence realises that he won't continue to do what he wants. Just as we see glimpses of the old Anders there must be glimpses of the old Justice that holds back from hurting Anders and the youtube vids of the rivalmance relationship seem to suggest that there is a lot more risk of Justice burning through him. Friendmanced Anders has external support to help him fight against the control of Justice.

He doesn't have to fight, though. There's nothing to fight against, since Anders and Justice want the same thing. I agree though that on rivalmance there will come a point where Vengeance takes over completely and will possibly kill Hawke.

[mesmerizedish]

Inzhuna wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

So we think - now if BW tinker with it like with ME series, how your relationship was with him might effect the aftermath? I could easily imagine a rivalmanced Anders going full abomination when Justice/Vengence realises that he won't continue to do what he wants. Just as we see glimpses of the old Anders there must be glimpses of the old Justice that holds back from hurting Anders and the youtube vids of the rivalmance relationship seem to suggest that there is a lot more risk of Justice burning through him. Friendmanced Anders has external support to help him fight against the control of Justice.

He doesn't have to fight, though. There's nothing to fight against, since Anders and Justice want the same thing. I agree though that on rivalmance there will come a point where Vengeance takes over completely and will possibly kill Hawke.

Friended Anders doesn't have support to help him fight Justice. Friended Anders believes that the merger was right and that they're really a single entity. Which is what Inzhuna is saying, I think.

[berelinde]

Inzhuna wrote...

To play devil's advocate, I wanted to point out, regarding the often brought-up point of Meredith sending for the Right of Annulment in Act 3:
The fact that she sent for it doesn't mean that the Divine would have approved. So whilst it further proves Meredith paranoia and insanity, it doesn't prove that Annulment would have been called for without Anders' actions. And if she tried to execute it without Divine's approval, I think Cullen and other good templars would have stood up to her.

You're right. Probability says that the Divine would not have sanctioned the Rite of Annulment. But probability says that Meredith would have ignored the directive. And Cullen and the other rational templars would have rebelled... and we're back at excessively combative architecture in the Gallows. One way or another, that zit was going to pop, and when it did, it was going to be messy.

[highcastle]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Friended Anders doesn't have support to help him fight Justice. Friended Anders believes that the merger was right and that they're really a single entity. Which is what Inzhuna is saying, I think.

This may be so, but I fail to see how Anders fares any better fighting Justice on the rival path. He's more aware of the two existing as seperate beings, but he's still losing. And losing worse, in my opinion. He's blacking out, losing chunks of time, and feels worse than ever. If we're going to take the possession as a mental disorder, then it should be said breaking someone down and telling them constantly everything they're doing is wrong and every choice they've made is terrible is not usually a good idea. 

[Dunizel]

SmilingDeceit wrote...
I miss BC raiding so much, was the high point of my raiding history. Then we had Wrath after that and I quit pretty much until Cata released.

Same here, I quitted when they released the pink dragon basically, but I stopped raiding after Putricide in ICC. I was already so bored by that point.
Ah, the good times in TBC...healing priest reporting here too. I was holy AND disc, switched mainly to discipline in Wrath (me and my friend resto druid healed in 2 every 10men). Holy is preferred only inf you like to see big numbers in the healing meters...which is stupid, but you know the people in wow...

Karazhan has my undying love.
ZA was so hard it hurted so good when we were undegeared. the mana wasn't enough, the tanks were paperthin, the mages aggroed and the hunter didn't learn to feing death...good times, and good headaches as officer.

purplecookie wrote...

Thanks guys! I have to admit at first I found it jarring how emotionally intense Anders was, it seemed to be a bit unrealistic that someone would be so emotionally attached so quickly, but actually reflecting on it made me realise that, no, it makes total sense and has become one of the many reasons I love this character - his characterisation resonates so true to life and is relatable in a lot of ways.

To be honest, I find him realistic for this exact reason. Maybe I knew people like him, maybe I even had a relationship with this kind of person...but I have to admit that I believe that you come to really know a person when he is in a diffcult moment, and you try to help him out. Thy are...defenceless somehow, they aren't even trying to impress you, they are at their more honest self. Anders for me was a lot like this. And it happens that when you are down you expose yourself and your feelings more easily to the person who happens to care for you and stands by your side. Anders tried hard not to, but he needs the help and ends up clinging to you anyway. 

Uh, we are venturing again in the friendly/rival discussion...I'm out for a while xD

Modifié par Dunizel, 28 avril 2011 - 11:44 .

[mesmerizedish]

highcastle wrote...

This may be so, but I fail to see how Anders fares any better fighting Justice on the rival path. He's more aware of the two existing as seperate beings, but he's still losing. And losing worse, in my opinion. He's blacking out, losing chunks of time, and feels worse than ever. If we're going to take the possession as a mental disorder, then it should be said breaking someone down and telling them constantly everything they're doing is wrong and every choice they've made is terrible is not usually a good idea.

I don't think Anders fares any better on the rival path. I think that the friend path is better for Anders's well-being. I think the rival path is better for the man Anders used to be, and the man he (hopefully) will be again after I shank him.

I like the rival path because it forces Anders to accept what's happening to him. He's happier and healthier if you enable him, but so is that templar in the Circle tower who's under the thrall of the desire "spirit."

I wish it were easier to be pro-mage but anti-abomination with Anders.

[Herr Uhl]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I don't think Anders fares any better on the rival path. I think that the friend path is better for Anders's well-being. I think the rival path is better for the man Anders used to be, and the man he (hopefully) will be again after I shank him.

Resurrection spell?

[YamiSnuffles]

As to Meredith getting approval or not for the Rite, I agree that she probably would have found a way to do it anyway, even without approval. I mean, Cullen and the others don't try to stop her when she carries it out because someone outside the Circle did something. So, there's no saying the good Templars would have done anything if she thought she had sufficient reason to just go through with it.

Let's say Anders didn't bomb the Chantry. I'm sure Orsino would have pushed for getting Elthina involved. Either Elthina would have done what she always did (ie nothing) or Meredith would have prevented Orsino from even seeing Elthina (as she was trying to do before Anders showed up).

If Elthina didn't do anything, it would probably come down to Meredith conducting the searches of the Circle. Considering Orsino's involvement with Quentin, if there was any evidence of that, Meredith could easily declare the First Enchanter a Blood Mage. That would probably be reason enough for her to see the whole Circle as lost. Given Cullen's bad history with Blood Mages, I don't see him doing anything to stop her in that case.

If Meredith or Orsino don't make it to the Grand Cleric, it seems like either might have eventually lashed out at the other person. If Meredith just struck down the First Enchanter for trying to talk to the Grand Cleric, it might have been enough to push the other mages into action (at least the other ones that were there with Orsino). Thus, Meredith could have called the Rite to stop an uprising before it could start. If, on the other hand, Orsino had finally snapped (as he was close to doing) then the Templars would have all the more reason to call for an early, unapproved Rite.

I guess what I'm saying is, there are plenty of other ways Meredith could have called for the Rite without permission and still have the support of the Templars. Anyway, I hope that made some sense since I just woke up.

[mesmerizedish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I don't think Anders fares any better on the rival path. I think that the friend path is better for Anders's well-being. I think the rival path is better for the man Anders used to be, and the man he (hopefully) will be again after I shank him.

Resurrection spell?

[highcastle]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I wish it were easier to be pro-mage but anti-abomination with Anders.

And that's basically the crux of my view, too. I just about always friendmance him, and he's so easy to max out by supporting mages that I always do this while telling him not to listen to the voices in his head. Unfortunately, this is ignored by the game. It assumes if you're friendly, you agree on everything, while if you'r rivals, you disagree on everything. There really needs to be some way to track approval over multiple issues, or else only give us a choice on a single issue. I'd rather have my choices limited than see no consequences for my actions.

[mesmerizedish]

highcastle wrote...

And that's basically the crux of my view, too. I just about always friendmance him, and he's so easy to max out by supporting mages that I always do this while telling him not to listen to the voices in his head. Unfortunately, this is ignored by the game. It assumes if you're friendly, you agree on everything, while if you'r rivals, you disagree on everything. There really needs to be some way to track approval over multiple issues, or else only give us a choice on a single issue. I'd rather have my choices limited than see no consequences for my actions.

I agree totally. That's my biggest complaint about the friend/rival system. It's still a big step up from Origins, but there's still room to improve.

[YamiSnuffles]

highcastle wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I wish it were easier to be pro-mage but anti-abomination with Anders.

And that's basically the crux of my view, too. I just about always friendmance him, and he's so easy to max out by supporting mages that I always do this while telling him not to listen to the voices in his head. Unfortunately, this is ignored by the game. It assumes if you're friendly, you agree on everything, while if you'r rivals, you disagree on everything. There really needs to be some way to track approval over multiple issues, or else only give us a choice on a single issue. I'd rather have my choices limited than see no consequences for my actions.

I do agree with this. However, while trying to think about this in another light, I came up with this idea. Perhaps, Anders fusing more/less with Justice has absolutely nothing to do with what Hawke says. I mean, we've often talked about how on the friend side Anders' views are more in line with Justice's, and in rivalry, his views are in conflct with Justice. So, he merges more, not because he's gotten Hawke's seal of approval or something, but just as a natural result of being more in synch with Justice. In rivalry he's fighting Justice, not because Hawke told him fusing with a spirit was bad, but because he needs to fight Justice in order to try to avoid doing things like bomb the Chantry.

So, basically, it wouldn't matter if the game kept closer track of our decisions. A friend Hawke could argue all he wanted against the possession, but the end would be the same.

[highcastle]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I agree totally. That's my biggest complaint about the friend/rival system. It's still a big step up from Origins, but there's still room to improve.

I think an ideal system would take a note from Mass Effect (perish the thought!) and track approval on two to three different issues on separate sliders, similar to the way you can earn paragon and renegade points indepently. So for Anders, there'd be a bar for supporting the mages and another for supporting the merger with Justice. You'd probably have to rethink the naming system and how you ascribe bonuses, but overall I think it would lead to a bit more nuanced conversations.

[kromify]

highcastle wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I agree totally. That's my biggest complaint about the friend/rival system. It's still a big step up from Origins, but there's still room to improve.

I think an ideal system would take a note from Mass Effect (perish the thought!) and track approval on two to three different issues on separate sliders, similar to the way you can earn paragon and renegade points indepently. So for Anders, there'd be a bar for supporting the mages and another for supporting the merger with Justice. You'd probably have to rethink the naming system and how you ascribe bonuses, but overall I think it would lead to a bit more nuanced conversations.

and drive us all crazy trying to unlock them all. hello youtube!!  

[highcastle]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I do agree with this. However, while trying to think about this in another light, I came up with this idea. Perhaps, Anders fusing more/less with Justice has absolutely nothing to do with what Hawke says. I mean, we've often talked about how on the friend side Anders' views are more in line with Justice's, and in rivalry, his views are in conflct with Justice. So, he merges more, not because he's gotten Hawke's seal of approval or something, but just as a natural result of being more in synch with Justice. In rivalry he's fighting Justice, not because Hawke told him fusing with a spirit was bad, but because he needs to fight Justice in order to try to avoid doing things like bomb the Chantry.

So, basically, it wouldn't matter if the game kept closer track of our decisions. A friend Hawke could argue all he wanted against the possession, but the end would be the same.

I could see this being the case. Anders is more accepting of Justice when their views are unchallenged. But then why give us dialogue options where we can approve and disapprove of the merger if they're just going to be ignored. And I don't mean ineffectual. I'm fine with options that do nothing beyond add flavor and character personalization. But the game seems to assume you approve of the Justice merger whole-heartedly on the friend path and that you agree with Anders' assertion that they're one entity. This goes contrary to other dialogue options I picked, and that's what I don't like.

[Aviena]

Regarding Meredith sending for the Rite early in Act III: doesn't Leliana say in Sebastian's Act III quest that the Divine is considering an exalted march on Kirkwall? You'd think that she would prefer eradicating the Circle over starting a war with Kirkwall as a whole. :S

[YamiSnuffles]

highcastle wrote...

I could see this being the case. Anders is more accepting of Justice when their views are unchallenged. But then why give us dialogue options where we can approve and disapprove of the merger if they're just going to be ignored. And I don't mean ineffectual. I'm fine with options that do nothing beyond add flavor and character personalization. But the game seems to assume you approve of the Justice merger whole-heartedly on the friend path and that you agree with Anders' assertion that they're one entity. This goes contrary to other dialogue options I picked, and that's what I don't like.

Yeah, I agree with this. I guess what would have been nice is, even if they kept the friend/rivalry scale, let friend or rival Hawke deal with the merger in different ways. Like, rival Hawke could encourage more of a direct fight against Justice, while friend Hawke could focus more on keeping Anders strong and making sure he's the dominant one. Or something like that. Just a way to acknowledge what Hawke says and let you deal with it or talk about it in a consistent manner.

[Dunizel]

Aviena wrote...

Regarding Meredith sending for the Rite early in Act III: doesn't Leliana say in Sebastian's Act III quest that the Divine is considering an exalted march on Kirkwall? You'd think that she would prefer eradicating the Circle over starting a war with Kirkwall as a whole. :S

Eh, maybe the Divine realized that in Kirkwall there is little left to save. That Hellmouth is better left alone and inhabited.
Still, an Exalted March seems like an extreme and not so much "divine" solution >.>


I agree with the rivalry/friendly system complaints. I liked the rivalmance, but even though I can say that I supported the mages all the way, Anders still doesn't recognize it. We can roleplay it, but Anders still believes that I hate the mages. Which doesn't correspond at all to my decision ingame. 

[YamiSnuffles]

Aviena wrote...

Regarding Meredith sending for the Rite early in Act III: doesn't Leliana say in Sebastian's Act III quest that the Divine is considering an exalted march on Kirkwall? You'd think that she would prefer eradicating the Circle over starting a war with Kirkwall as a whole. :S

Yeah, this is what I would think. Although, I think David Gaider said something along the lines of he didn't think the Divine would actually approve Meredith's request for the Rite (but I could be remembering completely wrong, so don't quote me on that). It does seem like the best way to limit the loss of lives when compared to a Divine March. But yeah, it could just be that she thinks getting rid of Kirkwall on a whole is the better option, even if it costs more lives, just because Kirkwall is such a crazy place. Also, there is the fact that there are non-mages helping with the mage underground. If this much is known, the Divine might see it as best to wipe out not only the mages but all their sympathizers.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 28 avril 2011 - 12:36 .