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[Miri1984]

@ElleMullineux totally with you on that one.

[phantomdragoness]

ElleMullineux wrote...

I'm gonna be the odd one out here and just say that I hope Anders and Justice remain merged, and with a friendmanced Hawke. Even if you could seperate them, could you inflict that on Anders? Without Justice's resolution and purpose I don't think he could live with what he's done. In DA2 he might still be 'just a man' but he is a GREAT man. He's done a Great thing and to destroy the man /entity on the cusp of it's achievement is cruel and foolish for the cause. And any attempt to undo the merge nullifies what he's done, actually that's a bit harsh, it belittles it perhaps.
There is no compromise, but there is no going back, and I think the friendmanced Anders has the ability to keep making changes and to progress the cause.
Edit - just read this back and realised that I'm coming across a bit militant pro-mage, played as a rogue who didn't really care that much but unless they were obviously dangerous let people off lightly. My take on the end was that if you've got to choose a side, you choose it fast and you choose it hard. No half measures, no compromise.

On a side note, convinced the note from the Underground Railway quest/ Sir Cullen goat bit was Anders.

I will say that I have often thought about this. Although I am a big supporter of separating the two, I do worry what could happen to Anders and even to Justice. Justice has been outside the Fade for so long dealing with human emotions. He can't just go back to being a regular spirit after that - it would be like living in a busy city your entire life, and then you go live with the Amish; you'd feel out of place, and need to re-learn yourself. It's a difficult mental process. And then there is Anders...who knows what could happen to him mentally and physically after suddenly having this spirit severed from him?

The ideal is to have them separated and after a few therapy sessions they'd be fine. But in BioWare's world, they always have repercussions, and chances are something serious will affect Anders and Justice. Damn you, BioWare for pulling back the giant boot of "U Mad" farther than regulated. <_<

I just worry what would happen to Justice and Anders in the longrun if they remain bonded. Justice doesn't know how to sit idle, he will want to be a part of the revolution and that may over exert Anders; and then Anders's emotions will only warp Justice more.

AGGHHHHHHHHH I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

[Miri1984]

I think the key to making Anders/Justice work is to get them to control their emotions more - kind of like turning him Vulcan, where the emotions are still there but they're locked away inside so that Justice/Vengeance doesn't get affected by them and as a consequence he doesn't lose control. So lots of meditation and anger management for Anders in the future.

I've mentioned this before, but I actually think if Anders is friendmanced he doesn't WANT to be separated from Justice. I'm pretty sure that part of the motivation for taking Justice on board (so to speak) in the first place was so he wouldn't have to be alone any more. Side effects from being in solitary and on the run so much.

[dpMeggers]

phantomdragoness wrote...
AGGHHHHHHHHH I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

Abandon hope, all ye who enter a BioWare romance.

Topically, I don't think seperating Justice/Vengence from Anders is the solution, provided it can even be done. If friended, they're so twisted into each other that I'm not sure much would be left of either of them at the end. If rivaled, J/V might just take over permanetly to avoid the possibility, and you have no Anders left, just an abomination.

The only thing that can be done is to a)kill Anders and hope that makes Justice go away or find some way to calm Anders' anger, and in doing so bring Vengence back to Justice.

Sad to say, neither option is a guarantee, but a) seems like it might end better. Granted that's assuming Anders doesn't just become Kristoff 2.0.

Edit: Having said that I've only killed him once, and I didn't keep that save file because I hated doing it.

Modifié par dpMeggers, 30 avril 2011 - 12:03 .

[Dunizel]

I do not think they can be separated, and if possible it would just damage Anders to no end probably. As it is the only thing Anders could try to do is control Vengeance, friend or rival or whatever, it doesn't make a difference to me to be honest. Because even in a friendly path I am still scared for him to be honest.
And as I said, I really hope he can find a nice tranquil place with no thin Veil and no crazy templars and blood mages every corner, so he can work out on smoothing Vengeance impulses and they can work improving their "connection".

You know what's worst? I have the feeling we will likely never really know what happens. When they said that Anders if killed is truly killed...well, somehow I doubt they will give a DLC only for players who didn't kill him. 
If it happens, I'm scared to find some zombie-Vengance, I do not want. I'll keel speculating about my farm with kittens or my mage army revolution. Whatever. 

Modifié par Dunizel, 30 avril 2011 - 12:15 .

[Ryzaki]

Dunizel wrote...

I do not think they can be separated, and if possible it would just damage Anders to no end probably. As it is the only thing Anders could try to do is control Vengeance, friend or rival or whatever, it doesn't make a difference to me to be honest. Because even in a friendly path I am still scared for him to be honest.
And as I said, I really hope he can find a nice tranquil place with no thin Veil and no crazy templars and blood mages every corner, so he can work out on smoothing Vengeance impulses and they can work improving their "connection".

Yeah I'd like for them to be seperated but that's not liable to happen. Best I can hope for is control. 

[DragonRacer]

phantomdragoness wrote...

Oh God...therapy. Can't you just imagine?! LOL.

No, I do believe Justice can still be saved. If you Friendmance Anders, I think there is an even better chance because the spirit appears calmer with Hawke's support.

I want the therapy DLC... Bioware, make it happen!

I agree about the Friendmance being a better "therapy" chance. Only makes sense... from Justice's point-of-view, a Hawke who has friendmanced and been nothing but supportive would eventually be viewed as being on their/his side and, thus, less threatening as well.

[dpMeggers]

ElleMullineux wrote...

@Meggers, I just can't kill him. I had to youtube it because I honestly cannot make myself press the button on my Xbox

I did it on my first playthrough, with a Hawke who had friendmanced him. I sat there for a good 10 minutes before pressing the "Kill" option. And then I cried. It sucked, and it's going to suck again when I do it on my next playthrough.

[YamiSnuffles]

DragonRacer wrote...

phantomdragoness wrote...

Oh God...therapy. Can't you just imagine?! LOL.

No, I do believe Justice can still be saved. If you Friendmance Anders, I think there is an even better chance because the spirit appears calmer with Hawke's support.

I want the therapy DLC... Bioware, make it happen!

New downloadable companion: Doctor Phil.

Miri1984 wrote...

I think the key to making Anders/Justice work is to get them to control their emotions more - kind of like
turning him Vulcan, where the emotions are still there but they're locked away inside so that Justice/Vengeance doesn't get affected by them and as a consequence he doesn't lose control. So lots of meditation and anger management for Anders in the future.

We need a vulcanologist. They study Vulcans, right?

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 30 avril 2011 - 12:26 .

[DragonRacer]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

DragonRacer wrote...

phantomdragoness wrote...

Oh God...therapy. Can't you just imagine?! LOL.

No, I do believe Justice can still be saved. If you Friendmance Anders, I think there is an even better chance because the spirit appears calmer with Hawke's support.

I want the therapy DLC... Bioware, make it happen!

New downloadable companion: Doctor Phil.

I seriously want a banner now. Dr. Phil on one side, glowy Justice/Anders on the other, and in the middle: I support group therapy for Justice/Anders". LOL

[Jean]

I doubt Anders will be leading anything right after the fact.
He didn't even plan to live to see the aftermath.

[YamiSnuffles]

I think at some point in the day I lose my ability to make intelligent comments. I started out in the morning having well thought out discussions about Anders, Justice, and the Fade, and now I'm back to just making jokes. I just need to avoid bringing up getting high off the Meredith statue or andersbutt.

*looks down at signature*

Too late I suppose. No matter what comment I might make, it will be dumbed down by my sig. *hangs head in shame*

[Jean]

Seriously though I'm bummed we didn't get to see the effect it had on the world. And whatever else happened since then.
Did the circles rise up immediately or is it a more recent thing? What circumstance/circumstances caused the companions to leave? What is Leliana doing? Why are they looking for The Warden too?

WILL VARRIC EVER TELL THE STORY OF BIANCA? /staytunedforthenextepisode

Modifié par Batteries, 30 avril 2011 - 12:34 .

[dpMeggers]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Noooooo - Why would you kill him? 1 - He's a gorgeous sex muffin. 2 - When the war breaks out he'll be the person pulling everything in the right direction, rather than letting it all splinter into fractions and infighting. He might do some terrible things to get there but he'd do it. Edit (Says Hawke who must be responsible for half the deaths in Kirkwall over the last 10 years)

I didn't kill him, Hawke did. Because he wanted to be a martyr, because was something of a loose canon and because of Flemeth: "Without an end, there can be no peace."

She figured if she knifed Anders the mages get a martyr, he gets to be free of Justice, and the world will see that even though she killed the mage responsible, all mages can't be that bad because she chose to save them.

[Ryzaki]

ElleMullineux wrote...
Noooooo - Why would you kill him? 1 - He's a gorgeous sex muffin. 2 - When the war breaks out he'll be the person pulling everything in the right direction, rather than letting it all splinter into fractions and infighting. He might do some terrible things to get there but he'd do it. Edit (Says Hawke who must be responsible for half the deaths in Kirkwall over the last 10 years)

Ah but many (if not all depending on your Hawke) was for maintaining law and order. (Those that aren't just straight out self defense) Anders is doing the opposite. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 avril 2011 - 12:40 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Batteries wrote...

Seriously though I'm bummed we didn't get to see the effect it had on the world. And whatever else happened since then.
Did the circles rise up immediately or is it a more recent thing? What circumstance/circumstances caused the companions to leave? What is Leliana doing? Why are they looking for The Warden too?

WILL VARRIC EVER TELL THE STORY OF BIANCA? /staytunedforthenextepisode

I agree. While I would like some DLC eventually that fills in the gaps between acts,  I would rather some that takes place post-Chantry bombing. I would assume the Circles would rise up soon after, but it seems like maybe full scale war hasn't broken out. Or, at least, that's what Cassandra made it sound like.

I also want to know if your LI also disappears with Hawke, or if they get left behind. The idea of my Hawke vanishing and just leaving Anders wherever is depressing.

[Jean]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Seriously though I'm bummed we didn't get to see the effect it had on the world. And whatever else happened since then.
Did the circles rise up immediately or is it a more recent thing? What circumstance/circumstances caused the companions to leave? What is Leliana doing? Why are they looking for The Warden too?

WILL VARRIC EVER TELL THE STORY OF BIANCA? /staytunedforthenextepisode

I agree. While I would like some DLC eventually that fills in the gaps between acts,  I would rather some that takes place post-Chantry bombing. I would assume the Circles would rise up soon after, but it seems like maybe full scale war hasn't broken out. Or, at least, that's what Cassandra made it sound like.

I also want to know if your LI also disappears with Hawke, or if they get left behind. The idea of my Hawke vanishing and just leaving Anders wherever is depressing.

We don't know when Varric and everyone else had to part ways either. Varric could of left Hawke/LI a week before Cassandra catches him for all we know.
Doubtful but it could happen! Maybe.

[Dunizel]

YamiSnuffles wrote...
I also want to know if your LI also disappears with Hawke, or if they get left behind. The idea of my Hawke vanishing and just leaving Anders wherever is depressing.

Bolded "depressing". 
Tell me when they avoided doing something because it was "depressing". They just feed on our tears, we know that. I'm prepared (not really) for moar drama.  Afterall  even our Wardens disappeared leaving LIs behind...

I wasn't prepared for ToP though Here you have just the perfect image for the post.

by runaire

Modifié par Dunizel, 30 avril 2011 - 12:51 .