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[kromify]

Threeparts wrote...
In Awakening, he has his special Fox's Pendant, which reads, "After Anders first escaped from the Circle Tower, he saved the life of Bann Ferrenly. This enchanted amulet was a reward for Anders's service and friendship."
It's not clear whether "first escaped" is referring to his first attempt, or if it's when he first escaped on this attempt. Gives us plenty to speculate about, though!

I figure later on - once he's a bit more savvy about how the templar's can subdue him, how they pass infomation, what kind of places are more apostate-friendly than others - he might make a sort of game of it.
He jokes about the templars catching him in Awakening, and states that he'll only escape again before Rylock says she wants to execute him, but at the same time he's had Namaya looking for his phylactery. So it seems that while he's resigned to the fact that he'll always be hunted down anyway and wants to have his fun while he can, he's willing to take the risk of getting caught to ensure that they won't have such an easy job of finding him in future. He definitely comes across as a bit of an opportunist, and maybe one who's sick of getting dragged back and is starting to take his escapes a bit more seriously.

sounds right  

Modifié par kromify, 02 mai 2011 - 01:46 .

[SurelyForth]

Re: Andersbutt

I'm choosing to believe that he has something, just because his robes seem to indicate such. Granted, it's probably all that quilting, but a girl can dream, right?

Also, he walks alot. Maybe that makes up for the lack of everything else going for him.

I can't believe I took the time to post that. I'm not even someone who really cares about boy ass, having the documented fondness for uber-lanks that I do.

[YamiSnuffles]

I think maybe his escape attempts were a bit of a mixed bag. Like, sometimes he would make a serious escape but when that failed, he would get frustrated and escape just for the fun of it. I do agree that, after a time, it became a bit of a game. Not a game that he ever thought he would really win, but a game all the same.

Considering the Fox's Pendant story and the fact that he'll return to help the Wardens at the start of Awakening, I do love that- as much as Anders wants freedom- he would risk his freedom if the need for help was great enough. Until his merge with Justice, he might not have been willing to put his neck on the line in such a huge way, but he was always willing to risk his life and freedom if he thought he really needed to.

EDIT to add random cuteness I just found:

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 02 mai 2011 - 01:58 .

[Threeparts]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I think maybe his escape attempts were a bit of a mixed bag. Like, sometimes he would make a serious escape but when that failed, he would get frustrated and escape just for the fun of it. I do agree that, after a time, it became a bit of a game. Not a game that he ever thought he would really win, but a game all the same.

Considering the Fox's Pendant story and the fact that he'll return to help the Wardens, I do love that- as much as Anders wants freedom- he would risk his freedom if the need for help was great enough. Until his merge with Justice, he might not have been willing to put his neck on the line in such a huge way, but he was always willing to risk his life and freedom if he thought he really needed to.

He comes back to help the Warden with the Darkspawn, and he'll come back to help Hawke if you send him away and assist the mages: the boy just doesn't know what's good for him, does he?  He can be terribly altruistic, even after he should have learned that it mightn't turn out well for him.

I wonder if the seriousness of his attempts is how we can reconcile his seven attempts in Awakening versus his DA2 codex's "dozens": he's only counting the serious attempts he made, the ones with a goal and purpose that got him further than the Lake Calenhad docks, whereas the codex counts every time he pushed a dinghy into the Lake, cocked a snook at the templars, and then found his boat had no oars.

[kromify]

Threeparts wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I think maybe his escape attempts were a bit of a mixed bag. Like, sometimes he would make a serious escape but when that failed, he would get frustrated and escape just for the fun of it. I do agree that, after a time, it became a bit of a game. Not a game that he ever thought he would really win, but a game all the same.

Considering the Fox's Pendant story and the fact that he'll return to help the Wardens, I do love that- as much as Anders wants freedom- he would risk his freedom if the need for help was great enough. Until his merge with Justice, he might not have been willing to put his neck on the line in such a huge way, but he was always willing to risk his life and freedom if he thought he really needed to.

He comes back to help the Warden with the Darkspawn, and he'll come back to help Hawke if you send him away and assist the mages: the boy just doesn't know what's good for him, does he?  He can be terribly altruistic, even after he should have learned that it mightn't turn out well for him.

I wonder if the seriousness of his attempts is how we can reconcile his seven attempts in Awakening versus his DA2 codex's "dozens": he's only counting the serious attempts he made, the ones with a goal and purpose that got him further than the Lake Calenhad docks, whereas the codex counts every time he pushed a dinghy into the Lake, cocked a snook at the templars, and then found his boat had no oars.

makes me love him even more 

[MG800]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I think maybe his escape attempts were a bit of a mixed bag. Like, sometimes he would make a serious escape but when that failed, he would get frustrated and escape just for the fun of it. I do agree that, after a time, it became a bit of a game. Not a game that he ever thought he would really win, but a game all the same.

Considering the Fox's Pendant story and the fact that he'll return to help the Wardens at the start of Awakening, I do love that- as much as Anders wants freedom- he would risk his freedom if the need for help was great enough. Until his merge with Justice, he might not have been willing to put his neck on the line in such a huge way, but he was always willing to risk his life and freedom if he thought he really needed to.

I doubt he did it for altruistic reasons. Maybe he figured out, that amazed by his bravity, and wilingness to help, and because he's capable healer after all, Wardens might want to have him around, and protect him. Wardens are in power in Amaranthine,  and they're independent of Chantry - and I'm sure there are plenty of stories, where mage got taken in, to become a Grey Warden, and never had to go back to Circle ever again (If Warden is a mage, count one more).
Sure, he's pretty altruistic in DA2 - but that doesn't mean he always was like that 

Modifié par MG800, 02 mai 2011 - 02:15 .

[Ninche]

Threeparts wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I think maybe his escape attempts were a bit of a mixed bag. Like, sometimes he would make a serious escape but when that failed, he would get frustrated and escape just for the fun of it. I do agree that, after a time, it became a bit of a game. Not a game that he ever thought he would really win, but a game all the same.

Considering the Fox's Pendant story and the fact that he'll return to help the Wardens, I do love that- as much as Anders wants freedom- he would risk his freedom if the need for help was great enough. Until his merge with Justice, he might not have been willing to put his neck on the line in such a huge way, but he was always willing to risk his life and freedom if he thought he really needed to.

He comes back to help the Warden with the Darkspawn, and he'll come back to help Hawke if you send him away and assist the mages: the boy just doesn't know what's good for him, does he?  He can be terribly altruistic, even after he should have learned that it mightn't turn out well for him.

I wonder if the seriousness of his attempts is how we can reconcile his seven attempts in Awakening versus his DA2 codex's "dozens": he's only counting the serious attempts he made, the ones with a goal and purpose that got him further than the Lake Calenhad docks, whereas the codex counts every time he pushed a dinghy into the Lake, cocked a snook at the templars, and then found his boat had no oars.

It'd be so amazing if David Gaider wrote a book about that. Just Anders' life right up until his final escape to Amaranthine. It would surely give some insight to the life of mages and possibly make people understand Anders better. I think we should lavish DG with love and admiration and then beg for an Anders book! 

[YamiSnuffles]

MG800 wrote...

I doubt he did it for altruistic reasons. Maybe he figured out, that amazed by his bravity, and wilingness to help, and because he's capable healer after all, Wardens might want to have him around, and protect him. Wardens are in power in Amaranthine,  and they're independent of Chantry - and I'm sure there are plenty of stories, where mage got taken in, to become a Grey Warden, and never had to go back to Circle ever again.
Sure, he's pretty altruistic in DA2 - but that doesn't mean he always was like that

If it was a one time thing, maybe. It's not though. As I said, there was also the Fox's Pendant story that Threeparts mentioned. I'll quote again, "After Anders first escaped from the Circle Tower, he saved the life of Bann Ferrenly. This enchanted amulet was a reward for Anders's service and friendship." The thing with the Wardens isn't the first time he has stopped to help others when he has escaped.

EDIT: And if he was only going to the Wardens to escape, why not do this earlier? Sure you can think of it as him only doing it for his own self serving reasons, but you can do that with about everything he does if you try. Let's not forget the theory that Anders is only using Hawke for the protection granted by Champion status.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 02 mai 2011 - 02:18 .

[MG800]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

MG800 wrote...

I doubt he did it for altruistic reasons. Maybe he figured out, that amazed by his bravity, and wilingness to help, and because he's capable healer after all, Wardens might want to have him around, and protect him. Wardens are in power in Amaranthine,  and they're independent of Chantry - and I'm sure there are plenty of stories, where mage got taken in, to become a Grey Warden, and never had to go back to Circle ever again.
Sure, he's pretty altruistic in DA2 - but that doesn't mean he always was like that

If it was a one time thing, maybe. It's not though. As I said, there was also the Fox's Pendant story that Threeparts mentioned. I'll quote again, "After Anders first escaped from the Circle Tower, he saved the life of Bann Ferrenly. This enchanted amulet was a reward for Anders's service and friendship." The thing with the Wardens isn't the first time he has stopped to help others when he has escaped.

We don't know the whole story. It could be an accident, or he just couldn't stay still, while someone was being attacked - but that doesn't exclude the possibility of him being sneaky. You can be selfish, and have no stomach to just look at men being robbed and killed, when you're perfectly capable of helping him. Just saying.

Edit: Not enough information. Maybe he didn't have an opportunity earlier? Pfft, but this theory.... Sure Hawke was a Champion ALL THE TIME, especially when he met him, and even if not, he clearly wasn't just some random refugee from Lowtown, with shady dealings and some oppurtunity to go kill himself/herself in the Deep Roads.

Modifié par MG800, 02 mai 2011 - 02:31 .

[YamiSnuffles]

MG800 wrote...

We don't know the whole story. It could be an accident, or he just couldn't stay still, while someone was being attacked - but that doesn't exclude the possibility of him being sneaky. You can be selfish, and have no stomach to just look at men being robbed and killed, when you're perfectly capable of helping him. Just saying.

And I'm just saying that a continuously repeated behavior hints at a certain personality trait rather than repeat accidents. So there can easily be other explanations for single events, when you put it together with other events, it seems to indicate something else.

Anders is a healer and goes out of his way to heal people. This indicates, to me, a level of compassion and altruism. As I also said before, he gets more extreme about this in DA2 but that doesn't mean it's something that just didn't exist before. Why agree to even let a spirit into his body in the first place if he didn't have a certain level of compassion?

If you read every action Anders takes in Awakening as being completely self serving, then it seems hard to see any connection to who he is in DA2.

MG800 wrote...

Edit: Not enough information. Maybe he didn't have an opportunity earlier? Pfft, but this theory.... Sure Hawke
was a Champion ALL THE TIME, especially when he met him, and even if not, he clearly wasn't just some random refugee from Lowtown, with shady dealings and some oppurtunity to go kill himself/herself in the Deep
Roads.

And you magically have more information than I do about Anders' motivations? Somehow there is proof enough that he is only helping the Wardens to save his own skin, but not enough information to support him possibly doing it to help? There's not enough information EITHER WAY. I was just saying, if you are going to argue that as his reasoning, then why wouldn't he try earlier on one of the other half dozen escape attempts. It's not like it's the first time the Wardens have been around.

As to Hawke:
1)Hawke starts by helping him with Karl and he agreed he would help in return for that
2) Hawke gets money and power after the Deep Roads which is- according to the mechanics of the game- enough to keep mage!Hawke, Merrill, and Anders out of trouble
3) Then Hawke gets Champion status and all companions become completely untouchable to the point of Hawke being the one who gets to decide if Anders is executed

I never said I believed any of that, I'm just saying that people certainly have argued that Anders only acts in a self serving fashion, including with Hawke. That it is possible to twist everything in this way, as you seem determined to do for him in Awakening.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 02 mai 2011 - 02:42 .

[Dunizel]

MG800 wrote...

I doubt he did it for altruistic reasons. Maybe he figured out, that amazed by his bravity, and wilingness to help, and because he's capable healer after all, Wardens might want to have him around, and protect him. Wardens are in power in Amaranthine,  and they're independent of Chantry - and I'm sure there are plenty of stories, where mage got taken in, to become a Grey Warden, and never had to go back to Circle ever again.
Sure, he's pretty altruistic in DA2 - but that doesn't mean he always was like that

You know what, I think he was being just a bit reckless and curious. 
I don't think he wanted so badly to help, but he wanted for sure to see how that strange situation would have evolved. I'm pretty sure he would have just run away if his life was in any danger, he was no hero nor he had such strong ideals at that time. Maybe our Warden piqued his curiosity too. I don't think he even considered joining the Wardens at the start...but sure as hell he considered them his family later on, and he cared for the people in Amaranthine too in the end. He is a good person, but he had to be somewhat selfish sometimes to save his life. I have no doubts that, if he could, he would have liked to travel around healing people. 

Too bad this Bann he saved couldn't protect or hide him tough. Or maybe he didn't ask because he simply couldn't stand to stay put in one place hiding. Maybe it was for him just another kind of cage, for someone who wanted freedom so badly 

Modifié par Dunizel, 02 mai 2011 - 02:44 .

[Threeparts]

MG800 wrote...

We don't know the whole story. It could be an accident, or he just couldn't stay still, while someone was being attacked - but that doesn't exclude the possibility of him being sneaky. You can be selfish, and have no stomach to just look at men being robbed and killed, when you're perfectly capable of helping him. Just saying.

Edit: Not enough information. Maybe he didn't have an opportunity earlier? Pfft, but this theory.... Sure Hawke was a Champion ALL THE TIME, especially when he met him, and even if not, he clearly wasn't just some random refugee from Lowtown, with shady dealings and some oppurtunity to go kill himself/herself in the Deep Roads.

All of the above is certainly possible: he could be an opportunist, he could use those in power to protect himself, he could just be trying to do his own thing while being dragged into other events.

But he's:

• saved the Bann's life while on the run himself
• returned to assist the Warden against the darkspawn despite being given the all clear to go free
• protested the destruction of Amaranthine
• merged with a spirit of Justice in order to pursue liberation of mages
• run a free medical clinic in a city that actively roots out apostates
• helped smuggle mages out of Kirkwall's Circle
• commited an act of war against a religious target, fully knowing that he could be executed for it
• returned to fight against the templars, even after being given a reprieve

He could have done all of the above for selfish reasons, sure. But how likely is it?
 

[MG800]

*sigh*  I didn't said this traits didn't exist - I just thik there was a one or two layers of selfishness on them. Wchich shows, especially in banter with Justice.

Modifié par MG800, 02 mai 2011 - 02:47 .

[kromify]

every person is selfish, and most people like to help others. i don't see a mystery here; he was just being normal.
it's a bit of give and take... he gives us his help, we protect him from templars

[MG800]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

MG800 wrote...

Edit: Not enough information. Maybe he didn't have an opportunity earlier? Pfft, but this theory.... Sure Hawke
was a Champion ALL THE TIME, especially when he met him, and even if not, he clearly wasn't just some random refugee from Lowtown, with shady dealings and some oppurtunity to go kill himself/herself in the Deep
Roads.

And you magically have more information than I do about Anders' motivations? Somehow there is proof enough that he is only helping the Wardens to save his own skin, but not enough information to support him possibly doing it to help? There's not enough information EITHER WAY. I was just saying, if you are going to argue that as his reasoning, then why wouldn't he try earlier on one of the other half dozen escape attempts. It's not like it's the first time the Wardens have been around.

As to Hawke:
1)Hawke starts by helping him with Karl and he agreed he would help in return for that
2) Hawke gets money and power after the Deep Roads which is- according to the mechanics of the game- enough to keep mage!Hawke, Merrill, and Anders out of trouble
3) Then Hawke gets Champion status and all companions become completely untouchable to the point of Hawke being the one who gets to decide if Anders is executed

I never said I believed any of that, I'm just saying that people certainly have argued that Anders only acts in a self serving fashion, including with Hawke. That it is possible to twist everything in this way, as you seem determined to do for him in Awakening.

And I certenly didn't said that I have more information then you, sweetheart. Magically or not.
I said there isn't enough information. Either way. And we seem to agree here.

[YamiSnuffles]

And I never said there wasn't a selfish side to him in Awakening. In fact, my initial statement was that I loved that he would still go out of his way to help people despite his own wants (ie freedom). He is selfish, but he also had a goodness in him that could over ride that.

Just because he was selfish, it doesn't mean that- sometimes- he could be altruistic. That sometimes his desire to help and heal others might override his desire to save his own skin.

MG800 wrote...

And I certenly didn't said that I have more information then you, sweetheart. Magically or not. I said there isn't enough information. Either way. And we seem to agree here.

Yes, except instead of backing up your point in any way, you just said that mine didn't have enough information. But, whatever, I don't want to get in to it.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 02 mai 2011 - 02:57 .

[kromify]

i wish he was more consistent though... anders wanted to appeal to the blood mage baroness to get them out the fade rather than help justice out.
i think that's a fairly big continuity error.

[MG800]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

And I never said there wasn't a selfish side to him in Awakening. In fact, my initial statement was that I loved that he would still go out of his way to help people despite his own wants (ie freedom). He is selfish, but he also had a goodness in him that could over ride that.

Just because he was selfish, it doesn't mean that- sometimes- he could be altruistic. That sometimes his desire to help and heal others might override his desire to save his own skin.

MG800 wrote...

And I certenly didn't said that I have more information then you, sweetheart. Magically or not. I said there isn't enough information. Either way. And we seem to agree here.

Yes, except instead of backing up your point in any way, you just said that mine didn't have enough information. But, whatever, I don't want to get in to it.

I agree. He does have an altruistic side - even if a bit hidden in Awakening. 
And I didn't. Or at least I didn't intend to. Maybe I should elaborate more at this point then going all Sten - and for that, I apologize.

Modifié par MG800, 02 mai 2011 - 03:08 .

[YamiSnuffles]

MG800 wrote...

I agree. He does have an altruistic side - even if a bit hidden in Awakening. 
And I didn't. Or at least I didn't intend to. Maybe I should elaborate more at this point then going all Sten - and for that, I apologize.

Eh, it's fine. Misunderstanding seems to be the way of the internet.

I apologize for any communication failure on my part. I offer an Anders peace offering to the world.

by riasaur

[dpMeggers]

kromify wrote...

i wish he was more consistent though... anders wanted to appeal to the blood mage baroness to get them out the fade rather than help justice out.
i think that's a fairly big continuity error.

I think that was him just wanting to save his own skin. Better not to attack the big powerful mage who's been holding all these people captive in the fade for who knows how long in favour of someone who might get you out of the fade. Instead help the big powerful mage who probably CAN get you out of the fade.

[MG800]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Eh, it's fine. Misunderstanding seems to be the way of the internet.

I apologize for any communication failure on my part. I offer an Anders peace offering to the world.

by riasaur

Hah, all right, this thread needs now more love and Anders pics:
(by rabbitzoro)

Modifié par MG800, 02 mai 2011 - 03:19 .

[dpMeggers]

The Anders Thread: We Kiss and Make Up

You know, if posting pictures of Anders was equivalent to kissing.

[YamiSnuffles]

Posting pictures of Anders is totally equivalent to kissing.


Or possibly imminent boob touching.

EDIT: it depresses me to no end when the thread dies just as I make some inane comment about boobs or butts. There's a lesson to be learned there, but I don't want to learn it.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 02 mai 2011 - 03:48 .

[dpMeggers]

 The lesson to be learned is that you live in the wrong time zone. That's what I figure anytime I kill a thread.