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[kromify]

Silfren wrote...

On the subject of what spirits could possibly be warped into demons and those who might be immune...I'm not sure we should be looking at the opposites, or inverses, of the various traits. Vengeance, after all, is by no means the opposite of Justice. So I don't think that if Valor were to be corrupted, it would be into Cowardice, for one example. The example of justice suggests not that demons are the polar opposite to their virtue counterparts, but the most negative expression of those virtues, as suggested by the very idea that they are corrupted---after all, corrupted justice, or a warped, misguided notion of justice, is precisely what vengeance is.

To use another example: Faith, I've no doubt, could be easily corrupted. But the opposite of Faith would be something like Doubt, or Disbelief. Faith corrupted would be Fanaticism.

this ^

Modifié par kromify, 02 mai 2011 - 09:26 .

[YamiSnuffles]

kromify wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

kromify wrote...

anders; demon of lust    

excuse me just a moment...

lol; now i totally want a desire demon spliced into anders's love scene

There's no reason to splice in a desire demon when Anders is there. He already fills that role quite nicely.

even better idea... splice anders into every desire demons slot!!!!  see him run his hands up, down and everywhere... 

I approve of this idea. I need to... think about this some more.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

kromify wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

kromify wrote...

anders; demon of lust    

excuse me just a moment...

lol; now i totally want a desire demon spliced into anders's love scene

There's no reason to splice in a desire demon when Anders is there. He already fills that role quite nicely.

even better idea... splice anders into every desire demons slot!!!!  see him run his hands up, down and everywhere... 

I approve of this idea. I need to... think about this some more.

Try picturing Anders in the desire demon's ah... "clothes" 

[kromify]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

kromify wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

kromify wrote...

anders; demon of lust    

excuse me just a moment...

lol; now i totally want a desire demon spliced into anders's love scene

There's no reason to splice in a desire demon when Anders is there. He already fills that role quite nicely.

even better idea... splice anders into every desire demons slot!!!!  see him run his hands up, down and everywhere... 

I approve of this idea. I need to... think about this some more.

Try picturing Anders in the desire demon's ah... "clothes" 

i wish justice could have been corrupted into desire. think how good a desire demon must be in bed 

[Felinu]

ElleMullineux wrote...

As full on and intense as the relationship with Anders is, I like that there is acknowledged gaps in the game. I saw the vid of when you dump Anders after the first night and he says "but we talked about this". At the time I just thought "no we didn't", but then I was thinking in response to a couple of posts ^^ that there's a lot of stuff that goes on that isn't the "Chapmion's Story" as Varric would tell it, so there is a lot stuff with the relationships that we don't see. So my headcannon now has Anders and Hawke happy most of the time except during Anders boughts of deep depression (and the mania when he's plotting/researching/writing). And Hawke always takes him with her on any quests so that 1, she can keep an eye on him, and 2, she can save money on healing potions.

<snipped pretty picture>

It may just be me, but I thought he was refering to conversation you have right before the <fade-to-black> there.  Where he says "It would kill me to lose you" and you respond (usually) with "You aren't going to lose me."  (I sometimes get "This won't fix that" for that line, but eh.  I think you have to have been romancing someone else first to get that one?)  I took it as him being afraid to persue this, you re-assuring him that he has nothing to worry about, and then dumping him right after in spite of telling him you would be there for him.

(For the record, I have never dumped him there, or in fact anywhere, so this theory is based mostly on youtube footage.)

Anders himself says (paraphrasing) that the last 3 years were the happiest of his life, if you friendmance and then knife him...  (What!?  I wanted to see the templar ending...   I couldn't take it, I reloaded.)

He always goes everywhere with my Hawkes, too.  Even when I'm playing spirit healer.  He makes a really great offensive mage as well. 

[YamiSnuffles]

I'm just going to say it. Forget spirits of Compassion or Faith or whatever. I wish Anders would have merged with a Desire Demon. Oooh yeeeeah.

[kromify]

Felinu wrote...
It may just be me, but I thought he was refering to conversation you have right before the <fade-to-black> there.  Where he says "It would kill me to lose you" and you respond (usually) with "You aren't going to lose me."  (I sometimes get "This won't fix that" for that line, but eh.  I think you have to have been romancing someone else first to get that one?)  I took it as him being afraid to persue this, you re-assuring him that he has nothing to worry about, and then dumping him right after in spite of telling him you would be there for him.

(For the record, I have never dumped him there, or in fact anywhere, so this theory is based mostly on youtube footage.)

Anders himself says (paraphrasing) that the last 3 years were the happiest of his life, if you friendmance and then knife him...  (What!?  I wanted to see the templar ending...   I couldn't take it, I reloaded.)

He always goes everywhere with my Hawkes, too.  Even when I'm playing spirit healer.  He makes a really great offensive mage as well. 

depends if you are diplo, snarky or mean hawke. mean hawkes say something like we aren't here to talk

[kromify]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I'm just going to say it. Forget spirits of Compassion or Faith or whatever. I wish Anders would have merged with a Desire Demon. Oooh yeeeeah.

giggity

[YamiSnuffles]

kromify wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I'm just going to say it. Forget spirits of Compassion or Faith or whatever. I wish Anders would have merged with a Desire Demon. Oooh yeeeeah.

giggity

Although... Justice is hard, as Anders says. We don't want to lose that. So maybe just merge Anders with a Desire Demon and Justice. Then he would right injustices with orgies. Orgies solve all wrongs.

[Sable Rhapsody]

kromify wrote...

Felinu wrote...
It may just be me, but I thought he was refering to conversation you have right before the <fade-to-black> there.  Where he says "It would kill me to lose you" and you respond (usually) with "You aren't going to lose me."  (I sometimes get "This won't fix that" for that line, but eh.  I think you have to have been romancing someone else first to get that one?)  I took it as him being afraid to persue this, you re-assuring him that he has nothing to worry about, and then dumping him right after in spite of telling him you would be there for him.

(For the record, I have never dumped him there, or in fact anywhere, so this theory is based mostly on youtube footage.)

Anders himself says (paraphrasing) that the last 3 years were the happiest of his life, if you friendmance and then knife him...  (What!?  I wanted to see the templar ending...   I couldn't take it, I reloaded.)

He always goes everywhere with my Hawkes, too.  Even when I'm playing spirit healer.  He makes a really great offensive mage as well. 

depends if you are diplo, snarky or mean hawke. mean hawkes say something like we aren't here to talk

I like Snarky!Hawke's response the best.  It fits my Hawke's personality; she knows that being together won't make things any easier.  She knows this is a bad idea, and will probably end badly.  And she doesn't care, because she loves him.

[kromify]

that would be a Jorgie

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

To be honest, I don't think spirits should leave the Fade at all. Their world is completely opposite to the physical mortal world.

While the Fade is an ever changing world of ideas, with inhabitants consisting of once fixed ideal/emotion,
The Physical world is static, while it's inhabitants have a myriad of moods and ideals, and are always changing and evolving as people...

And the physical world changes ideas...

So yeah.
I wonder if there's a spirit for all seven cardinal virtues and sins?
Like:
Demons - Spirit
Pride - Humility
Avarice - Generosity
Envy - Love
Wrath - Compassion
Lust - Self-control
Gluttony - Temperance
Sloth - Zeal

I'm not saying that these would be each other's opposites, just wondering if they exist as spirits.

I'd like to meet a neutral, more complex spirit. I wonder if they exist?

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I'm just going to say it. Forget spirits of Compassion or Faith or whatever. I wish Anders would have merged with a Desire Demon. Oooh yeeeeah.

Pfff... Anders is too sexy for Desire!

[Silfren]

I hadn't considered the point about Hawke and co. being in the Fade physically--that's an excellent point. It does leave a rather large plot-hole in terms of why the companions who were killed there didn't actually die--and how they managed to "wake up" in the real world when they were fully present in the Fade to begin with, body and all. That was the case, right? Crap I'll have to re-play that quest again now.

[Felinu]

kromify wrote...

Felinu wrote...
It may just be me, but I thought he was refering to conversation you have right before the <fade-to-black> there.  Where he says "It would kill me to lose you" and you respond (usually) with "You aren't going to lose me."  (I sometimes get "This won't fix that" for that line, but eh.  I think you have to have been romancing someone else first to get that one?)  I took it as him being afraid to persue this, you re-assuring him that he has nothing to worry about, and then dumping him right after in spite of telling him you would be there for him.

(For the record, I have never dumped him there, or in fact anywhere, so this theory is based mostly on youtube footage.)

Anders himself says (paraphrasing) that the last 3 years were the happiest of his life, if you friendmance and then knife him...  (What!?  I wanted to see the templar ending...   I couldn't take it, I reloaded.)

He always goes everywhere with my Hawkes, too.  Even when I'm playing spirit healer.  He makes a really great offensive mage as well. 

depends if you are diplo, snarky or mean hawke. mean hawkes say something like we aren't here to talk

Ah, that must be the diplomacy line then.  I've usually fallen out of being snarky or mean hawke by the romance scene.

[YamiSnuffles]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I'm just going to say it. Forget spirits of Compassion or Faith or whatever. I wish Anders would have merged with a Desire Demon. Oooh yeeeeah.

Pfff... Anders is too sexy for Desire!

Yeah but... I just want to see him with those animations.

[Felinu]

Silfren wrote...

I hadn't considered the point about Hawke and co. being in the Fade physically--that's an excellent point. It does leave a rather large plot-hole in terms of why the companions who were killed there didn't actually die--and how they managed to "wake up" in the real world when they were fully present in the Fade to begin with, body and all. That was the case, right? Crap I'll have to re-play that quest again now.

Could it have something to do with it being Fenrial Fynreal  Fenryl... the elf boy's dream?  Like if you're killed in your own dream then you're tranquil, but not if you're visiting someone else's?

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I'm just going to say it. Forget spirits of Compassion or Faith or whatever. I wish Anders would have merged with a Desire Demon. Oooh yeeeeah.

Pfff... Anders is too sexy for Desire!

Yeah but... I just want to see him with those animations.

He probably does...


...In the three year gap Bioware wouldn't let Varric tell us about.

Somebody mod this! 

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Felinu wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I hadn't considered the point about Hawke and co. being in the Fade physically--that's an excellent point. It does leave a rather large plot-hole in terms of why the companions who were killed there didn't actually die--and how they managed to "wake up" in the real world when they were fully present in the Fade to begin with, body and all. That was the case, right? Crap I'll have to re-play that quest again now.

Could it have something to do with it being Fenrial Fynreal Fenryl... the elf boy's dream? Like if you're killed in your own dream then you're tranquil, but not if you're visiting someone else's?

Perhaps because Feynriel is a dreamer, it's different for him?

I want to play as a tranquil mage, just to see how the Rite works...
Damnit, so much lore is obscured...

[YamiSnuffles]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

He probably does...


...In the three year gap Bioware wouldn't let Varric tell us about.

Somebody mod this! 

Varric: So Hawke, how have things been with you and Blondie?
Hawke: Oh, just great. Last night he wore nothing but a couple of tassels and a see-through loin cloth. Then he started touching-
Cassandra: Bull****! You never had this conversation with the Champion.
Varric: So I take it you don't want to see the pictures that Isabela drew to go with this part of the story?

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

He probably does...


...In the three year gap Bioware wouldn't let Varric tell us about.

Somebody mod this! 

Varric: So Hawke, how have things been with you and Blondie?
Hawke: Oh, just great. Last night he wore nothing but a couple of tassels and a see-through loin cloth. Then he started touching-
Cassandra: Bull****! You never had this conversation with the Champion.
Varric: So I take it you don't want to see the pictures that Isabela drew to go with this part of the story?

WE DO!!! 
(Screw you Cassandra!)
(Seriously, somebody who isn't as lazy as me please draw that picture...? Please...?)

[Silfren]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Felinu wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I hadn't considered the point about Hawke and co. being in the Fade physically--that's an excellent point. It does leave a rather large plot-hole in terms of why the companions who were killed there didn't actually die--and how they managed to "wake up" in the real world when they were fully present in the Fade to begin with, body and all. That was the case, right? Crap I'll have to re-play that quest again now.

Could it have something to do with it being Fenrial Fynreal Fenryl... the elf boy's dream? Like if you're killed in your own dream then you're tranquil, but not if you're visiting someone else's?

Perhaps because Feynriel is a dreamer, it's different for him?

I want to play as a tranquil mage, just to see how the Rite works...
Damnit, so much lore is obscured...

Well, that might explain how Feynriel would be made Tranquil but not someone else, but it doesn't really touch on how someone could be physically present, body, mind, and soul, in the Fade and yet "wake up" unharmed in their physical body if they're pseudo-killed while there.  After all, it's not like they're creating body duplicates to step into the Fade this way.  Although I suppose it could be said that a Fade death isn't a true death, and it just means that the body of the 'slain' person is simply transported back to the physical realm...but that just sounds like the cop-out that it is, lol.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Silfren wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Felinu wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I hadn't considered the point about Hawke and co. being in the Fade physically--that's an excellent point. It does leave a rather large plot-hole in terms of why the companions who were killed there didn't actually die--and how they managed to "wake up" in the real world when they were fully present in the Fade to begin with, body and all. That was the case, right? Crap I'll have to re-play that quest again now.

Could it have something to do with it being Fenrial Fynreal Fenryl... the elf boy's dream? Like if you're killed in your own dream then you're tranquil, but not if you're visiting someone else's?

Perhaps because Feynriel is a dreamer, it's different for him?

I want to play as a tranquil mage, just to see how the Rite works...
Damnit, so much lore is obscured...

Well, that might explain how Feynriel would be made Tranquil but not someone else, but it doesn't really touch on how someone could be physically present, body, mind, and soul, in the Fade and yet "wake up" unharmed in their physical body if they're pseudo-killed while there.  After all, it's not like they're creating body duplicates to step into the Fade this way.  Although I suppose it could be said that a Fade death isn't a true death, and it just means that the body of the 'slain' person is simply transported back to the physical realm...but that just sounds like the cop-out that it is, lol.

Normal people can only enter the Fade while dreaming, right?
Feynriel can shape and control dreams.

Perhaps that had something to do with it?

[Felinu]

Silfren wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Felinu wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I hadn't considered the point about Hawke and co. being in the Fade physically--that's an excellent point. It does leave a rather large plot-hole in terms of why the companions who were killed there didn't actually die--and how they managed to "wake up" in the real world when they were fully present in the Fade to begin with, body and all. That was the case, right? Crap I'll have to re-play that quest again now.

Could it have something to do with it being Fenrial Fynreal Fenryl... the elf boy's dream? Like if you're killed in your own dream then you're tranquil, but not if you're visiting someone else's?

Perhaps because Feynriel is a dreamer, it's different for him?

I want to play as a tranquil mage, just to see how the Rite works...
Damnit, so much lore is obscured...

Well, that might explain how Feynriel would be made Tranquil but not someone else, but it doesn't really touch on how someone could be physically present, body, mind, and soul, in the Fade and yet "wake up" unharmed in their physical body if they're pseudo-killed while there.  After all, it's not like they're creating body duplicates to step into the Fade this way.  Although I suppose it could be said that a Fade death isn't a true death, and it just means that the body of the 'slain' person is simply transported back to the physical realm...but that just sounds like the cop-out that it is, lol.

Goes to show that I should pay more attention in game.  I didn't realize they were there physically, I thought they were "sleeping" at the house and their minds were in the Fade.  I'll have to play that part again, with more focus this time!  (Bonus: I can romance Anders again while I'm at it! )

[kromify]

Felinu wrote...

Goes to show that I should pay more attention in game.  I didn't realize they were there physically, I thought they were "sleeping" at the house and their minds were in the Fade.  I'll have to play that part again, with more focus this time!  (Bonus: I can romance Anders again while I'm at it! )

 there's some discussion as to whether that's true, but you definitely have to replay just to make sure 

[highcastle]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

To be honest, I don't think spirits should leave the Fade at all. Their world is completely opposite to the physical mortal world.

While the Fade is an ever changing world of ideas, with inhabitants consisting of once fixed ideal/emotion,
The Physical world is static, while it's inhabitants have a myriad of moods and ideals, and are always changing and evolving as people...

And the physical world changes ideas...

So yeah.
I wonder if there's a spirit for all seven cardinal virtues and sins?
Like:
Demons - Spirit
Pride - Humility
Avarice - Generosity
Envy - Love
Wrath - Compassion
Lust - Self-control
Gluttony - Temperance
Sloth - Zeal

I'm not saying that these would be each other's opposites, just wondering if they exist as spirits.

I'd like to meet a neutral, more complex spirit. I wonder if they exist?

I think it's quite likely there are spirits to "match" some of the demons, but I don't think they fit the seven cardinal virtues if only because Valor and Justice, who we know to be spirits, aren't on that list. Or maybe they don't match at all since Justice is corrupted into Vengeance and not, say, Rage (an already known demon type).