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[sassperella]

Threeparts wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I am finally nearing the end of act 3 on the replay of my canon. First time I didn't explore dialogue trees much and second time my other character didn't even help him so... yeah. First time hearing all this stuff post-Chantry Jenga knowledge and it just makes me want to cry everywhere. Anders y u do dis to meeeee Hawke When I first played I was more focused on being suspicious and wondering why he changed his clothes, now I just feel like crying. Poor, stupid, lovesick idiot Hawke :'(

What sucked the most for me is that he pulled the whole potion lie to cover it up. When my Hawke has spent three Acts agreeing with the need for mages to have freedom, and doing things like helping the mage underground, there should have been no need for him to lie. I mean, even the whole, "I can't tell you what I'm doing, but it will help the mages win their freedom" conversation you can get after gathering the ingredients would have worked instead. 

I know the lack of trust kind of ties in with the whole paranoia thing he's got going on, but Anders, this is Hawke you're talking to. You know, Hawke, who has done everything you ever asked, even that one thing with the limes and the rubber boots that neither of you will ever speak of again. Why you gotta lie, bb?

I think the problem with the whole Justice quest is that it's the writers speaking more than Anders. They knew everyone would expect a personal quest to try and separate Justice and Anders and they thought they were being clever.
It felt very out of character to me, not the lying to protect Hawke, I can totally see Anders doing that, but the whole involving him/her in something he could do himself and using the separation of Justice and himself as the carrot. I think Anders could have made up any story to get Hawke's help if he really needed it, and wouldn't chose something that important as a hook especially if he's in love with Hawke - the whole separation potion thing felt like it was forced to fit player expectations.

[Amondra]

sassperella wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I am finally nearing the end of act 3 on the replay of my canon. First time I didn't explore dialogue trees much and second time my other character didn't even help him so... yeah. First time hearing all this stuff post-Chantry Jenga knowledge and it just makes me want to cry everywhere. Anders y u do dis to meeeee Hawke When I first played I was more focused on being suspicious and wondering why he changed his clothes, now I just feel like crying. Poor, stupid, lovesick idiot Hawke :'(

What sucked the most for me is that he pulled the whole potion lie to cover it up. When my Hawke has spent three Acts agreeing with the need for mages to have freedom, and doing things like helping the mage underground, there should have been no need for him to lie. I mean, even the whole, "I can't tell you what I'm doing, but it will help the mages win their freedom" conversation you can get after gathering the ingredients would have worked instead. 

I know the lack of trust kind of ties in with the whole paranoia thing he's got going on, but Anders, this is Hawke you're talking to. You know, Hawke, who has done everything you ever asked, even that one thing with the limes and the rubber boots that neither of you will ever speak of again. Why you gotta lie, bb?

I think the problem with the whole Justice quest is that it's the writers speaking more than Anders. They knew everyone would expect a personal quest to try and separate Justice and Anders and they thought they were being clever.
It felt very out of character to me, not the lying to protect Hawke, I can totally see Anders doing that, but the whole involving him/her in something he could do himself and using the separation of Justice and himself as the carrot. I think Anders could have made up any story to get Hawke's help if he really needed it, and wouldn't chose something that important as a hook especially if he's in love with Hawke - the whole separation potion thing felt like it was forced to fit player expectations.

^That.

Sadly when it comes to Anders there are a few things I feel the writers messed up on and makes me a little bitter.

Outside of what you said.  I also feel the whole the Anders Justice being one things bounces around to much.  Now I know this forum as gone over this tons of times, but witout going into details, the truth is Ander bounces between we are one and yet there is Justice seeminly talking and acting like he still has his own thoughts, or at least Justice "talks" to Anders with feelings.(sorry translating sucking again)

Also how rude he can be to everyone but Varric and Isabela it is amazing.  It is like really?  Mostly to Aveline, I really out of the remianing companions was the most uneeded.  And what he says during the "Alone" quest no matter how much he hates Fenris, just seems so OOC for him.  To me at least.

[Threeparts]

sassperella wrote...

I think the problem with the whole Justice quest is that it's the writers speaking more than Anders. They knew everyone would expect a personal quest to try and separate Justice and Anders and they thought they were being clever.
It felt very out of character to me, not the lying to protect Hawke, I can totally see Anders doing that, but the whole involving him/her in something he could do himself and using the separation of Justice and himself as the carrot. I think Anders could have made up any story to get Hawke's help if he really needed it, and wouldn't chose something that important as a hook especially if he's in love with Hawke - the whole separation potion thing felt like it was forced to fit player expectations.

I totally agree with this. I could see him using it as a cover for a rival: if he doesn't necessarily like the person and knows that Hawke wouldn't help if it benefited mages, it would be a nice conniving way to get Hawke to help him out.
But as a friend, and especially a romance partner? That's a ****ty thing to do to Hawke. From a romance perspective, it insinuates that he's been living with Hawke all this time and they don't discuss his work or the research he's been doing, or that he's saying he hasn't felt like confiding in Hawke over all this time.
I mean, if they were friends, surely they would have talked about the possession and each would understand how much or how little it would mean to them for the two to be separated. I know Hawke can acknowledge that Anders is blackmailing him/her for help, but there's no reason he should have felt it was necessary to do that to a friend or lover when something simpler (or the truth!) would have sufficed.

ElleMullineux wrote...

I don't think it's a lack of trust. I think rivalmanced he knows you'd try to stop him, and friendmanced either you'd want to stop him - or as he says "worse, help". I don't think Anders could cope with a Hawke that could do something like blow up the Chantry. 

As a rival I can definitely understand him using underhanded methods to get help. If it means abusing Hawke's trust or lying to Hawke, well, that kind of sums up the rival relationship in many ways. Hawke doesn't trust Anders to make sensible decisions, or to control himself, and Anders doesn't trust Hawke to help mages in any way. The potion cover makes sense there, as the Rivalry assumes you've been encouraging him to separate from Justice in the first place.

But as a friend, again, he wouldn't need to tell Hawke exactly what the "potion" would lead to. The Friendship path assumes that you agree with him on the mage issue and don't mind that he's an abomination. In the former case, he says after you've gathered that ingredients that he can't tell you what it's for, except to further the mage cause. That would have been enough to open the quest with in the first place, without the lies to precede it. And as for making a potion to separate him and Justice... part of the whole Friendship thing is saying that you don't mind the fact that he's abomination - the separation just isn't a big contentious issue, and it's odd that it's used for leverage in that quest.

It's pretty much as Sassperella said: it's put out there as an issue that the players would hear and go "ooh! I like that!" and click on, not because it makes sense for where the characters are and how their relationship had been progressing.

Modifié par Threeparts, 06 mai 2011 - 09:24 .

[mellifera]

Those Ser Pounce tiger drawings don't make me lol as much as make me really sad. They're cute, but for some reason they give me a case of the sadface.

Modifié par yukidama, 06 mai 2011 - 09:45 .

[Amondra]

yukidama wrote...

Those Ser Pounce tiger drawings don't make me lol as much as make me really sad. They're cute, but for some reason they give me a case of the sadface.

I think it is because of how much we know he misses his cat something bad and then the cat(and only friend) he had in solitary....I know he was dreaming of things like that.  Him and his cat out saving the mages of the world, the wind in their hair/fur.  No one to stop them...

Now I am sad face!

[Camilladilla]

yukidama wrote...

Those Ser Pounce tiger drawings don't make me lol as much as make me really sad. They're cute, but for some reason they give me a case of the sadface.

For me, it's because I know, once a upon a time there was an Anders who used to draw tigers mauling templars in the margins of books. But we also know there's an older and more broken Anders wandering around who might never recover from what he's been through

Okay, enough morose thoughts for me!

Don't tell me you guys haven't done this before.

Also yeesh, Anders with a ponytail just makes it look like he's balding waaaay too early.

[Threeparts]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Friend or rivalry, the fact that Anders is so obviously lying to you - his body language and tone of voice are so massively off it's untrue - comes across to me as Anders choosing to wave the chance of seperating from Justice as something to silence Hawke. If it was something more trivial or less personal my Hawke would probably push the issue. But it's something that the man you love says he wants to do - you know he's lying in there somewhere but you're not sure where (I was convinced he was going to blow himself up). And lets be honest Hawke has doing a lot more for a weaker reasons for other people.  

And afterwards, well, he's got the stuff and he doesn't like lying to Hawke, but he can't risk Hawke being directly involved for my earlier stated reason. So he still won't tell you what is going on.
His lies make sense to me.

For me, it's the other way around. Anders' work for the mage underground, his views and opinions of mage freedom, the fact that he can't tell Hawke what's going on because of his or her contacts with the templars and nobles... all this is known to Hawke. And a Friendship Hawke has been encouraging it, so, to me, a cover story just seems completely unnecessary. Hawke's helped him before with mage issues in his two previous personal quests. Helping him again would seem perfectly normal.

But suddenly bringing up an issue like separating from Vengeance? That would have my Hawke asking a lot of questions: Is it safe, how did you find out about it, what will happen afterwards, are there any side-effects, has anyone done this before, do you want to go up to Sundermount and ask Marethari's advice, is the spirit okay with this... He'd either have to lie a lot more to keep up the cover, or just brush off any questions, which would make it seem more suspicious.

Part of it is obviously down to conflicting personalities: your Hawke and my Hawke aren't going to respond in the same ways, and that can't really be accounted for. But it really makes things awkward in my version of events; it just doesn't fit.



I really enjoyed Anders in DA2: how the character changed, the role he played in the story, his actions, opinions, and personality. So when I'm picking at things that I feel don't make sense or could be changed in a way that I think would make the story flow better, I am doing it out of love. I don't know if Hepler or Gaider or anyone even reads this behemoth of a thread anymore, but I critique because I want something so good to live up to its full potential. And also because I am greedy and want MOAR. 

[Ninche]

yukidama wrote...

Those Ser Pounce tiger drawings don't make me lol as much as make me really sad. They're cute, but for some reason they give me a case of the sadface.

Ohh I absolutely adore this picture! It doesn't have to make sense it just makes me happy ^^ 

Camilladilla wrote...

Okay, enough morose thoughts for me!

Don't tell me you guys haven't done this before.

Also yeesh, Anders with a ponytail just makes it look like he's balding waaaay too early.

Haha sometimes I let my Hawke stand next to Anders in the estate and just watch him look at her and maybe click on him occasionally to get the "Your support has meant the world to me" sweet smile. So yeaaah I do that 

Also, did someone ask for a link to The Box earlier? 

Modifié par Ninche, 06 mai 2011 - 10:52 .

[Threeparts]

ElleMullineux wrote...

And yes, MOAR Anders. I don't know how they could do it unless they go back in time. The variable that he could be dead kind of messes up any future large scale content.

They've hinted at character-focused DLC and DLC to fill in the time skips, so I'm very much hoping that any non-expansion content will take place before the Chantry explosion.

As for an actual expansion, it's hard for me to say. If it does follow Hawke's adventures post-Kirkwall, I can only hope they go to the effort of writing and recording content for the companions we already know and love, even if there's a chance someof them are dead by that time.
I'd really rather not have another situation where they totally ignore the well-rounded characters we're already attached to in favour of potentially interesting characters that are never seen again (Witch Hunt, Golems, most of the Awakening crew...). It worked out for Anders and Justice, but just made me miss Sigrun and Varel and Finn and Snug and all the others. 

[AndreaDraco]

ElleMullineux wrote...


Art by: http://sandara.deviantart.com/

Well, being a cat-person myself... Aww! Just aww...

[sassperella]

Threeparts wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

And yes, MOAR Anders. I don't know how they could do it unless they go back in time. The variable that he could be dead kind of messes up any future large scale content.

They've hinted at character-focused DLC and DLC to fill in the time skips, so I'm very much hoping that any non-expansion content will take place before the Chantry explosion.

As for an actual expansion, it's hard for me to say. If it does follow Hawke's adventures post-Kirkwall, I can only hope they go to the effort of writing and recording content for the companions we already know and love, even if there's a chance someof them are dead by that time.
I'd really rather not have another situation where they totally ignore the well-rounded characters we're already attached to in favour of potentially interesting characters that are never seen again (Witch Hunt, Golems, most of the Awakening crew...). It worked out for Anders and Justice, but just made me miss Sigrun and Varel and Finn and Snug and all the others. 

they recently did a poll on facebook asking who the favourite characters were out of four. Someone suggested it might be DLC related, as there were only four - Varric, Merril, Isabella and Anders. Anders was way way way behind the other three though

Modifié par sassperella, 06 mai 2011 - 11:15 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Threeparts wrote...

For me, it's the other way around. Anders' work for the mage underground, his views and opinions of mage freedom, the fact that he can't tell Hawke what's going on because of his or her contacts with the templars and nobles... all this is known to Hawke. And a Friendship Hawke has been encouraging it, so, to me, a cover story just seems completely unnecessary. Hawke's helped him before with mage issues in his two previous personal quests. Helping him again would seem perfectly normal.

But suddenly bringing up an issue like separating from Vengeance? That would have my Hawke asking a lot of questions: Is it safe, how did you find out about it, what will happen afterwards, are there any side-effects, has anyone done this before, do you want to go up to Sundermount and ask Marethari's advice, is the spirit okay with this... He'd either have to lie a lot more to keep up the cover, or just brush off any questions, which would make it seem more suspicious.

This. My Hawke definitely would have had a million more questions to make sure it was safe for Justice and Anders to separate at that point. Then there would have been more questions on top of that about everything he had researched or whatever just to assure herself that he knew what he was doing. I feel like there could have been much simpler lies that my Hawke wouldn't have questioned nearly so much. Maybe something vague about striking a blow for mages or something.

I just woke up so I can't make up better things he could have said. I just know that whole quest felt weird.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 06 mai 2011 - 11:19 .

[Threeparts]

sassperella wrote...

they recently did a poll on facebook asking who the favourite characters were out of four. Someone suggested it might be DLC related, as there were only four - Varric, Merril, Isabella and Anders. Anders was way way way behind the other three though

Eh, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on it. They're hardly going to use a FB poll to determine favourites for something as costly as a full DLC, and Anders' DA2 writer is on leave at the moment anyway. Given that Fenris is pretty popular himself, I'd also doubt he'd be out of the running.

We already know that Anders is one of the least-liked companions, this isn't news. His death was the big moment for DA2 and bringing him back in any further games would be akin to a US Warden or Alistair showing up in the Hanged Man, so we can be pretty bloody sure we won't see him in any large post-boom role.
I would be sad (but unsurprised) if we never got an Anders-specific DLC, but for anything that takes place in the first seven years and also features the other companions, he's likely to be around even if he's not the main focus of the content.

Our best bet is to keep an eye on what Adam Howden's doing, and if he hints at further BioWare work. It's not a guarantee - Brekker might miraculously return from the dead - but it's better than nothing!

Modifié par Threeparts, 06 mai 2011 - 11:28 .

[Dunizel]

Threeparts wrote...

I know the lack of trust kind of ties in with the whole paranoia thing he's got going on, but Anders, this is Hawke you're talking to. You know, Hawke, who has done everything you ever asked, even that one thing with the limes and the rubber boots that neither of you will ever speak of again. Why you gotta lie, bb?

Aside the fact that it is obvious, as we know, that he is hiding something, the body language tells us as much. 
At least after the quest, if pressed, he will admit he was lying when asking you to distract Elthina. 

(And aside tha fact that he is perfectly able to gather the ingredients..I have the feeling he just brings us so he avoid to touch them >.> He even says, I think for the selae petrae, "ugh, I don't want to touch this")

lol@the title of the video: "You can blink once in a while, Anders. I'll still be here". Poor little cute paranoid.
(I admit when I save in my Estate I always do it near Anders, preferably when he is looking at Hawke..and turning the camera so that Orana doesn't fit in the picture)

Also, the ToP picture is hot.

Modifié par Dunizel, 06 mai 2011 - 11:47 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Hmm, I just realized part of why the start of the Justice quest felt weird to me was that it comes after his updated codex. So you've just been told that after years of struggling against Justice due to the Ella incident, he's finally picked up the mage freedom cause again.Thus him talking about separating from Justice felt like backtracking. I can see him still using that lie in rivalry since that path is more continuously focused on fighting against/separating from Justice. However, in a friendship romance, it felt like he'd derailed again for no explained reason.

[sassperella]

Threeparts wrote...

sassperella wrote...

they recently did a poll on facebook asking who the favourite characters were out of four. Someone suggested it might be DLC related, as there were only four - Varric, Merril, Isabella and Anders. Anders was way way way behind the other three though

Eh, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on it. They're hardly going to use a FB poll to determine favourites for something as costly as a full DLC, and Anders' DA2 writer is on leave at the moment anyway. Given that Fenris is pretty popular himself, I'd also doubt he'd be out of the running.

We already know that Anders is one of the least-liked companions, this isn't news. His death was the big moment for DA2 and bringing him back in any further games would be akin to a US Warden or Alistair showing up in the Hanged Man, so we can be pretty bloody sure we won't see him in any large post-boom role.
I would be sad (but unsurprised) if we never got an Anders-specific DLC, but for anything that takes place in the first seven years and also features the other companions, he's likely to be around even if he's not the main focus of the content.

Our best bet is to keep an eye on what Adam Howden's doing, and if he hints at further BioWare work. It's not a guarantee - Brekker might miraculously return from the dead - but it's better than nothing!

True... they said the poll was for feedback so a couple of people assumed it could be dlc. I'm not expecting any Anders specific dlc myself but it would be a shame if they did any pre chantry dlc and he wasn't included.
It was odd that they only picked those four to put in the poll, and I was wondering if they were the only four voice actors available and they were looking into the highest three rated for a three man dlc party... However looking at the names that would mean both female LIs would be there and none of the male ones which would probably get some complaints.
It would be nice to get all our companions in pre chantry dlc but it wouldn't be cost effective, I can just see them having a party's worth and with Anders being so unpopular he may get missed out.

[Dunizel]

I was the one who linked the poll, but my "might be a way to get feedback fr the dlc" was just a wild assumption, based on the fact that there were only 4 DA2 characters...which is strange, yes, but maybe it doesn't mean anything really. So don't worry...I want to believe that if they have a story to be told, they will, facebook votes or not...
(maybe they are just thinking for who they can release first alternate outfits, ME2 style...it is plausible. More money for little or no work lol)

Modifié par Dunizel, 06 mai 2011 - 11:52 .

[sassperella]

Dunizel wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

I know the lack of trust kind of ties in with the whole paranoia thing he's got going on, but Anders, this is Hawke you're talking to. You know, Hawke, who has done everything you ever asked, even that one thing with the limes and the rubber boots that neither of you will ever speak of again. Why you gotta lie, bb?

Aside the fact that it is obvious, as we know, that he is hiding something, the body language tells us as much. 
At least after the quest, if pressed, he will admit he was lying when asking you to distract Elthina. 

(And aside tha fact that he is perfectly able to gather the ingredients..I have the feeling he just brings us so he avoid to touch them >.> He even says, I think for the selae petrae, "ugh, I don't want to touch this")

lol@the title of the video: "You can blink once in a while, Anders. I'll still be here". Poor little cute paranoid.
(I admit when I save in my Estate I always do it near Anders, preferably when he is looking at Hawke..and turning the camera so that Orana doesn't fit in the picture)

Also, the ToP picture is hot.

It's not the lie, I can see him lying definitely to keep Hawke out of what he is doing... It's the content of the lie that stands out to me. If you're in a romance, the thing that Hawke would probably want most in the world is to help Anders and Justice free themselves and I just can't see Anders using that lie. Anything else yes, that lie no. To me (and it is just my opinion) it was a plot device to offer the player the appearance of separating the two, even though they hint strongly that it is a lie. But it felt so out of character as a romanced Hawke that he would be so cruel, because that's what he is, cruel by telling Hawke that particular lie.

[Threeparts]

sassperella wrote...

True... they said the poll was for feedback so a couple of people assumed it could be dlc. I'm not expecting any Anders specific dlc myself but it would be a shame if they did any pre chantry dlc and he wasn't included.
It was odd that they only picked those four to put in the poll, and I was wondering if they were the only four voice actors available and they were looking into the highest three rated for a three man dlc party... However looking at the names that would mean both female LIs would be there and none of the male ones which would probably get some complaints.
It would be nice to get all our companions in pre chantry dlc but it wouldn't be cost effective, I can just see them having a party's worth and with Anders being so unpopular he may get missed out.

I'm not sure about that part. I'm definitely not a game designer, but the characters are already there, the ambient dialogue is already recorded, they already have abilities and talents in the game... if the DLC isn't focused on that particular character, I'd don't know if it would really be a lot of effort to make the character accessible to party selection. The character could tag along without interjecting any comments if they can't get new dialogue for it.
I could easily be talking out of my arse, I know, but I can totally picture him being the third fourth wheel like Leliana, Oghren, Sten, etc., was in Return to Ostagar.

[Threeparts]

Dunizel wrote...

I was the one who linked the poll, but my "might be a way to get feedback fr the dlc" was just a wild assumption, based on the fact that there were only 4 DA2 characters...which is strange, yes, but maybe it doesn't mean anything really. So don't worry...I want to believe that if they have a story to be told, they will, facebook votes or not...
(maybe they are just thinking for who they can release first alternate outfits, ME2 style...it is plausible. More money for little or no work lol)

obb