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[RoseThorns]

Souris wrote...

RoseThorns wrote...

Souris wrote...

RoseThorns wrote...

Rheia1234 wrote...

You guys had way too much M!Hawke fun last night while I was sleeping...I think I need to roll a M!Hawke and put my Femrogue on hold for a bit....

Obligatory good morning kiss...

Was I the only one who was surprised when that kiss happened? (not that I'm complaining)

I wasn't...but I ruined it for myself. Youtube ruined me! ><

That's why I avoided these forums and youtube while I was playing. Though I got curious about Anders and came here since the romance was taking so long.... and found out that he blew up the chantry

I came to the forums to find some guides for quests or what have you, and had a lot of the game ruined for me through topic titles, so I decided since I was sort of spoiled anyway, I might as well go whole-hog.

I tried to avoid here after that, but when Anders didnt move in like he said he would in Act 2 I came racing back to see how to fix it. and then found out you just have to wait.

[Ninche]

[ DA 2 SPOILER ALERT!!!!! ]


Thank you so much for this thread, you have been a lifesaver!

I waited for DA2 to come out and expected it to be amazing, but I did not expect it to be so heart wrenching, it's made me laugh and cry myself to sleep, and I can't eat or concentrate on my bloody graduate work at all! I as so upset after the Justice quest, I expected something really bad but what Anders did still caught me totally off guard and I was so shocked and angry at him it took me like a sleepless night to decide what to do with him. I spared him, of course. Like people mentioned before, killing him wouldn't have been justice, but vengence. Even though the two are o intertwined I can't tell where one ends and the other begins, hah.

Also I didn't mind the grand cleric but the whole "oh its all in the maker's hands if they get over their differences or not" was so bull**** it made me angry. Meredith was clearly out of line, she was insane and oppressive and bloodthirsty. The grand cleric had the power to stop her if she wanted to but that would mean siding with the "cursed ones" which is also bull****. The way I see it, if we had done nothing, Meredith would have slowly exterminated and tranquilized us all, if we had waited for the Devine to to send her armies mages would have got killed AGAIN, we were always going to loose no matter what happened. And as much as I hate extremes and I think it's wrong to be extreme, and it took me a long time to come to terms with my own opinion, what Anders did, is force the mages to start fighting. We would have all preffered for things to stay quiet and "peaceful" and pretending it's all alright and we're not oppresing and mutilating people for being born different. Now the mages will rise, is it the right thing to do? or the wrong thing to do? Is the Tevinter Emperium better or worse than The Chantry? I think change is always horrific and it is in the nature of most of us to try to avoid it. I do believe that their system needs to change. There was no room for change before, and now there is.

[ladyofpayne]

What about funny art with MHawke and Anders?

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ninche wrote...

[ DA 2 SPOILER ALERT!!!!! ]


Thank you so much for this thread, you have been a lifesaver!

I waited for DA2 to come out and expected it to be amazing, but I did not expect it to be so heart wrenching, it's made me laugh and cry myself to sleep, and I can't eat or concentrate on my bloody graduate work at all! I as so upset after the Justice quest, I expected something really bad but what Anders did still caught me totally off guard and I was so shocked and angry at him it took me like a sleepless night to decide what to do with him. I spared him, of course. Like people mentioned before, killing him wouldn't have been justice, but vengence. Even though the two are o intertwined I can't tell where one ends and the other begins, hah.

Also I didn't mind the grand cleric but the whole "oh its all in the maker's hands if they get over their differences or not" was so bull**** it made me angry. Meredith was clearly out of line, she was insane and oppressive and bloodthirsty. The grand cleric had the power to stop her if she wanted to but that would mean siding with the "cursed ones" which is also bull****. The way I see it, if we had done nothing, Meredith would have slowly exterminated and tranquilized us all, if we had waited for the Devine to to send her armies mages would have got killed AGAIN, we were always going to loose no matter what happened. And as much as I hate extremes and I think it's wrong to be extreme, and it took me a long time to come to terms with my own opinion, what Anders did, is force the mages to start fighting. We would have all preffered for things to stay quiet and "peaceful" and pretending it's all alright and we're not oppresing and mutilating people for being born different. Now the mages will rise, is it the right thing to do? or the wrong thing to do? Is the Tevinter Emperium better or worse than The Chantry? I think change is always horrific and it is in the nature of most of us to try to avoid it. I do believe that their system needs to change. There was no room for change before, and now there is.

So I wasn't the only one mad at the Grand Cleric?  I think you even have a chance to tell her "HEY I THINK ANDERS IS PLANNING SOMETHING maybeyoushouldrun" when you are rival romancing him.  She says she will never leave.  I warned her about what the Divine said.  She said she will never leave.   She even asked me "Who would target me?  I'm the Grand Cleric" (or something along those lines).  I asked her why use former slave prisons as a place to keep mages.  She says it was just an empty building that no one was using at the time, and Isabela had something very funny to say after that.  She tells Meredith to put her nose in the corner -- and we all saw how that turned out.

Meh.  I know she didn't kill anyone.  But I found a weakness in her character.  Sure, stay in the Chantry and protect your flock, as you say.  But when everyone is telling you, even Sebastian is telling you, that you should leave for the sake of your flock, you should maybe take their advice.  That's not being selfless.  It's being doddering and reckless.  Did she not think for a minute that her death would cause a war?

... Or maybe she did.  LAWL.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 21 mars 2011 - 01:47 .

[LupusYondergirl]

@DeaHamlet: there is a whole WORLD of Anders/warden fic and art out there. (glances at sig, whistles)
Some of us took it upon ourselves to correct what was clearly a deficiency in the game.
I mean, a romanceless Bioware game? WTF is that?

I'm already working on da2 fic now, though. Despite three other ongoing fics. I'm clearly insane.

[YamiSnuffles]

Oh, the Grand Cleric annoyed me a lot by the end. After the Sister Petrice thing, I thought she was okay, but then she went downhill. She literally talked to Meredith and Orsino like they were just children. How is that supposed to help anything? No matter if people are acting a bit childish, it is a really important issue. Just dismissing them is only going to make things much worse instead of better.

Then it got to talking to her while Anders did his thing. Even though she didn't come out and directly support one side or another, she was obviously against the mages. You can out and out ask her why she can stand by while the mages are being brutally oppressed. She clearly thought they are evil and cursed so it might stink to lock them up but it's the only way. I don't think she would have ever listened to the other side of the argument. She might have been able to maintain the status quo, but she would never have helped make things better for the mages.

Do I think she deserved to die because of it? No. But she knew something could happen, both to herself and between the Templars and mages, yet she willfully ignores it all. Just sitting on your hands and hoping for the best isn't a good way to resolve anything.

[Ninche]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Ninche wrote...

[ DA 2 SPOILER ALERT!!!!! ]


Thank you so much for this thread, you have been a lifesaver!

I waited for DA2 to come out and expected it to be amazing, but I did not expect it to be so heart wrenching, it's made me laugh and cry myself to sleep, and I can't eat or concentrate on my bloody graduate work at all! I as so upset after the Justice quest, I expected something really bad but what Anders did still caught me totally off guard and I was so shocked and angry at him it took me like a sleepless night to decide what to do with him. I spared him, of course. Like people mentioned before, killing him wouldn't have been justice, but vengence. Even though the two are o intertwined I can't tell where one ends and the other begins, hah.

Also I didn't mind the grand cleric but the whole "oh its all in the maker's hands if they get over their differences or not" was so bull**** it made me angry. Meredith was clearly out of line, she was insane and oppressive and bloodthirsty. The grand cleric had the power to stop her if she wanted to but that would mean siding with the "cursed ones" which is also bull****. The way I see it, if we had done nothing, Meredith would have slowly exterminated and tranquilized us all, if we had waited for the Devine to to send her armies mages would have got killed AGAIN, we were always going to loose no matter what happened. And as much as I hate extremes and I think it's wrong to be extreme, and it took me a long time to come to terms with my own opinion, what Anders did, is force the mages to start fighting. We would have all preffered for things to stay quiet and "peaceful" and pretending it's all alright and we're not oppresing and mutilating people for being born different. Now the mages will rise, is it the right thing to do? or the wrong thing to do? Is the Tevinter Emperium better or worse than The Chantry? I think change is always horrific and it is in the nature of most of us to try to avoid it. I do believe that their system needs to change. There was no room for change before, and now there is.

So I wasn't the only one mad at the Grand Cleric?  I think you even have a chance to tell her "HEY I THINK ANDERS IS PLANNING SOMETHING maybeyoushouldrun" when you are rival romancing him.  She says she will never leave.  I warned her about what the Divine said.  She said she will never leave.   She even asked me "Who would target me?  I'm the Grand Cleric" (or something along those lines).  I asked her why use former slave prisons as a place to keep mages.  She says it was just an empty building that no one was using at the time, and Isabela had something very funny to say after that.  She tells Meredith to put her nose in the corner -- and we all saw how that turned out.

Meh.  I know she didn't kill anyone.  But I found a weakness in her character.  Sure, stay in the Chantry and protect your flock, as you say.  But when everyone is telling you, even Sebastian is telling you, that you should leave for the sake of your flock, you should maybe take their advice.  That's not being selfless.  It's being doddering and reckless.  Did she not think for a minute that her death would cause a war?

... Or maybe she did.  LAWL.

I think when she said "I feel for the mages, I do, they have to deal with this curse"  that's what got me.  I wanted to slap her right there and then. It's the oldest fantasy saying "Magic is not good or bad it's how you use it" And just the whole bull**** of the chantry "mages are born with tainted souls bla bla bla". If the Chantry was an all peaceful organisation, that only strived to help the ones in need and promoted love and equality then any act of violence against it would be horrible. But the Chantry is one of the most powerful forces in all of Thedas, they have a bloody ARMY they keep under control by brainwashing and getting them addicted to lyrium, NOTHING about this is good, NOTHING about this promotes love and understanding. Sure there are nice andrastians, and if any of them were in that chantry when it blew up they have my sympathy, but they are irrelevant in the grand scheme of the game. We all are.

I think most people thought the grand cleric was a good person and someone even said something like "the only person who had her morals straight", which is why they were outraged an proceeded to executing Anders. If there was no character in chantry we were emotionally involed with nobody would care half as much. And like I said, she didn't even attempt to save lives. And yes, like you said when she was like "hah i am the grand cleric who would dare to touch me in my chantry" i felt this pang of morbid pleasure at what was to come. She let her authority get to her head, clearly.

[Ninche]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Oh, the Grand Cleric annoyed me a lot by the end. After the Sister Petrice thing, I thought she was okay, but then she went downhill. She literally talked to Meredith and Orsino like they were just children. How is that supposed to help anything? No matter if people are acting a bit childish, it is a really important issue. Just dismissing them is only going to make things much worse instead of better.

Then it got to talking to her while Anders did his thing. Even though she didn't come out and directly support one side or another, she was obviously against the mages. You can out and out ask her why she can stand by while the mages are being brutally oppressed. She clearly thought they are evil and cursed so it might stink to lock them up but it's the only way. I don't think she would have ever listened to the other side of the argument. She might have been able to maintain the status quo, but she would never have helped make things better for the mages.

Do I think she deserved to die because of it? No. But she knew something could happen, both to herself and between the Templars and mages, yet she willfully ignores it all. Just sitting on your hands and hoping for the best isn't a good way to resolve anything.

Yes, I agree. I think we're probably taking the game alot more seriously than the avrage player and sort of trying to imagine what it would FEEL like to be a mage and oppressed in this kind of world. If everyone cared enough about the story and actually tried to place themselves in a mage's shoes I think they would understand Anders better.

Modifié par Ninche, 21 mars 2011 - 02:03 .

[Ninche]

SurelyForth wrote...

I was so surprised when the kiss happened, because it was a situation where I just idly clicked on him after the post-Dissent talk and all of a sudden he was happily setting milk out for cats and Hawke was being all sparkly and flirty. Then he went again and then...KISS.

I am not lying at all when I say that after the kiss I got hella lost in Darktown trying to get to the map. I was imagining Varric and Fenris having to grab Hawke and drag her to that lift before she happy-flailed herself over a ledge.

Hawke:..eeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
Varric: Although awkward, at least I'll have something to work from. She's usually not very forthcoming with these sorts of details.
Hawke: ...eeeeeeeeeeeeee...
Fenris: I could have lived a long and happy life without seeing such a thing, myself.
Hawke: ...eeeeeeeeeeeeee...
Fenris: It could not have possibly been that good.
Hawke:...eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
Varric: Ok. Even I'm starting to get annoyed.
Varric: (to Cassandra) "...and then the Champion squealed for days."

Hahaha ^^ I tried avoiding forums and youtube and everything until I got to the romance at least, but being all weak I had to make sure I was on the right track so I did read some stuff on the forum and someone said "That first kiss was really something" so I was like yay let's see what happens. And when it did happen I was NOT EXPECTING it. What the voice actor lacked in dialogue (and I have to say his voice REALLY grew on me eventually) he made up for with the amazing sound effects. WOW! I was blown away 0_0 my palms were sweating...

[nodice]

Man, you guys talk...*just woke up*

leggywillow wrote...Basically, I leapt at the chance for Hawke and Anders to have some kind of interaction besides "I love you, you're the best!"  Honestly, people aren't always nice to each other in a relationship.  That may sound very dysfunctional, but I like being able to play that out in-game.

This. A thousand time this. I don't know if I'm glad playing it, but I'm glad it's there. Game-wise this is huge. Relationship crisis in a game? Bioware, you rock.

leggywillow wrote...

I think I've found a difference between the Big Sexy Kiss scene for male and female Hawke in the rival-mance.

In the M!Hawke/Anders videos I've seen (I think uploaded by Ryzaki), you get the "kiss you or kill you" line, then Anders says "blah blah, smoldering between us" and the dialogue wheel comes up.  The top right option doesn't actually say anything; it just lets Anders leap into his kiss.

For the female version, the dialogue wheel doesn't even come up.  You don't get the "smoldering" line and Anders gives you the "wake aching for you" line and says something about madness and then GLOMP!  And a dialogue wheel pops up after.

Here are the videos for comparison: Lady Hawke and Man Hawke

The difference is pretty minor, but I thought other crazed Anders fans might be interested.    It's pretty obvious why they did it, since it gives the straight male players one last chance to avoid the kiss, while Lady Hawke has to wait until after the sexy kiss to say "WTF NO".

WOW! I didn't know that. Thank you so much!! Is this only in rivalry?
Awesome they did that.

Somebody wrote...

Do you guys like the way he looks in DA2 over Awakening? 

I like both, but I think he looked....healthier in Awakening. He's lost weight in DA2, looks like Justice is actually eating him inside. Looks weary. This is why Hawke wants to make him a sandwich. 
 

leggywillow wrote...
Oh no, I got the glitch!  Varric said everyone left the Champion's side "except for Anders".  Anders, who Varric himself pumped three arrows into and left dead at the Gallows.

Anders is haunting Hawke!  Oh noooooo!

D:

My Hawke promised to run away with Anders, and I got "everyone left except Isabela". Somehow that's even worse I can only imagine Izzy offered to take them with her ship, and then...

Modifié par nodice, 21 mars 2011 - 02:20 .

[DeaHamlet]

Oh the grand cleric.

She pissed me off beyond belief.
I wasn't a big fan of the chantry... what with the march against the elves and all this mages are cursed stuff... but she seemed so willing to look the other way! To ignore the serious issues!

I think for me, if anyone had any good points about needing to find a balance between Tevinter Imperium and the Free marches (Kirkwall, Ferelden...) it was Fenris. Not the grand cleric. She had nothing of substance to say rather than it's all in the maker's hands.

And visits to Darktown and Lowtown were constant reminds how much the chantry helped... nobody.
The poor still the poor, the rich still the rich.
And all that money spent on lyrium and templar armor!

[snarkycleric]

I liked the way she dealt with Sister Petrice, but it seemed like she mostly thought everything would be decided by the Maker if she just sat on it long enough. =\\ I have an issue with that, myself.

[DeaHamlet]

@nodice That's a horrible glitch! That's why I NEVER flirted with Isabela. Just never. I don't want her messing up my ending, damn!

[SurelyForth]

nodice wrote...

Man, you guys talk...*just woke up*

leggywillow wrote...Basically, I leapt at the chance for Hawke and Anders to have some kind of interaction besides "I love you, you're the best!"  Honestly, people aren't always nice to each other in a relationship.  That may sound very dysfunctional, but I like being able to play that out in-game.

This. A thousand time this. I don't know if I'm glad playing it, but I'm glad it's there. Game-wise this is huge. Relationship crisis in a game? Bioware, you rock.

And Merrill even acknowledges the fight! It's wonderful. I have to say that I legitimately love the small touches they included for the romances. The post-death comforting, the concern after the Qunari revolt, and the reflection of the relationship in banter and discussions with other companions. My biggest complaint is that Act 3 is so sad for those romancing Anders, that a kiss or hug might have been nice. All we get is a fade to black if you flirt with him after you give him the key to the cellar. There's barely enough time to catch The Smirk!!

But back to the argument. It's perfect, I think. From the "my love" when he's never called Hawke that before, to the exasperated "I do love you, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with every decision" to the final, cold agreement.

[Magaloo]

do all the companions mentions the relationship with Anders? Varric, Aveline and Isabella mentionned him/romance at some point but no one else. I am not too worried about Merrill. She was so bugged in my 1st playthrough that I ended up really disliking her. (I had her locked in my party for the longest time but she was not interacting...)

Also love waking up, taking it slow and reading all the Anders goodness I missed!

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...

nodice wrote...

Man, you guys talk...*just woke up*

leggywillow wrote...Basically, I leapt at the chance for Hawke and Anders to have some kind of interaction besides "I love you, you're the best!"  Honestly, people aren't always nice to each other in a relationship.  That may sound very dysfunctional, but I like being able to play that out in-game.

This. A thousand time this. I don't know if I'm glad playing it, but I'm glad it's there. Game-wise this is huge. Relationship crisis in a game? Bioware, you rock.

And Merrill even acknowledges the fight! It's wonderful. I have to say that I legitimately love the small touches they included for the romances. The post-death comforting, the concern after the Qunari revolt, and the reflection of the relationship in banter and discussions with other companions. My biggest complaint is that Act 3 is so sad for those romancing Anders, that a kiss or hug might have been nice. All we get is a fade to black if you flirt with him after you give him the key to the cellar. There's barely enough time to catch The Smirk!!

But back to the argument. It's perfect, I think. From the "my love" when he's never called Hawke that before, to the exasperated "I do love you, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with every decision" to the final, cold agreement.

Although it might have added to it being a depressing romance, I too liked the fact that you could argue with Anders. Even while friendship romancing him, you don't have to agree with everything he says and does. When he pulls the emotional blackmail thing, you can call him on it. I liked that I could still feel like my Hawke loved Anders but didn't have to put up with his BS. Which is not to say I liked yelling at him, but I like that I could when I felt he had it coming.

[SurelyForth]

Magaloo wrote...

do all the companions mentions the relationship with Anders? Varric, Aveline and Isabella mentionned him/romance at some point but no one else. I am not too worried about Merrill. She was so bugged in my 1st playthrough that I ended up really disliking her. (I had her locked in my party for the longest time but she was not interacting...)

Also love waking up, taking it slow and reading all the Anders goodness I missed!

Aveline does, during her Act 2 quest (but only if you've slept with him already).

Isabela and Varric have conversations with Hawke about it. If Isabela asks you to join her crew once she has a ship, you can say "What about Anders?" and she'll extend the offer to include him.

Merrill brings it up with Anders in banter (asking him if he's happy). Then, if you fight with Anders about helping him with the Grand Cleric, she muses that she feels bad for him because he might have broken the one thing he wanted to save.

If you romanced Fenris and then ended up with Anders, Fenris will tell Anders that he'll kill him if he breaks Hawke's heart.

Sebastian will warn you about Anders in the last conversation you have with him.

Brodyaha wrote...

I liked that option too. Especially when my Hawke finally aquiesced to helping Anders with the Chantry business, and when I choose the agreement option, she huffed and said, "Fine, but I won't forget you're blackmailing me!"

I really like that.

And Lady Hawke's delivery is wonderful there.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 21 mars 2011 - 02:55 .

[crotti]

*is listening to I'm Not Calling You A Liar*
... I can't listen to this song without thinking "Why is it called Varric's Theme? And... holy **** why does it remind me so much of the Anders romance?"
You have discussed this before, right? " ... I just had to mention it again XD

._."

[snarkycleric]

YamiSnuffles wrote...



Although it might have added to it being a depressing romance, I too liked the fact that you could argue with Anders. Even while friendship romancing him, you don't have to agree with everything he says and does. When he pulls the emotional blackmail thing, you can call him on it. I liked that I could still feel like my Hawke loved Anders but didn't have to put up with his BS. Which is not to say I liked yelling at him, but I like that I could when I felt he had it coming.

Yeah, my Hawke called him on it too. She loved him and agreed with his cause, but she was pretty upset that he lied to her and emotionally blackmailed her. I thought that was one of the nicer things about the romance - you didn't have to ALWAYS agree with them.

I wasn't even too worried about racking up a couple of rivalry points, especially because Anders is emotional and reacts strongly to just about everything you do, so I felt totally okay with calling him out on stuff even if it earned me rivalry points.

[SidheKate]

My problem with the Chantry is that inaction is a form of action. Varric's story between Acts 2 and 3 clearly says that things are getting worse because:
---> Meridith pushes
<---- mages push back
Chantry expects them to compromise, which means they end up
---> in the middle. Then:
---> Meridith pushes
<--- mages push back
---> They end up in the middle because the Grand Cleric wants them to compromise. But this is worse than where they began. Then, Meridith pushes...
Slowly but surely, everything became an unsustainable tightening of the noose around the mages' necks. The same (to me) was true with Sister Patrice, the Grand Cleric did nothing to stop her - and in fact promoted her between Acts 1 and 2 - and someone else had to handle the problem.

My problem with that last sad scene with Anders is that he is willing to accept death for his crimes. It frees him from the endless rage of Vengeance (that's what I read into the death-smile other people mentioned) and he knows he probably deserves it. Still, he leaves it in Hawke's hands. As much as it is that *GASP* moment, on both my play throughs all I can think of are Flemeth's words. There Hawke is, standing on the precipice of change, and he/she shouldn't be afraid to leap. At that moment, I wanted to grab Anders by the hand and go running to protect the mages, not have a debate about the morality of his actions. He can make up the lying-to-me part later.

[YamiSnuffles]

crotti wrote...

*is listening to I'm Not Calling You A Liar*
... I can't listen to this song without thinking "Why is it called Varric's Theme? And... holy **** why does it remind me so much of the Anders romance?"
You have discussed this before, right? <_<" ... I just had to mention it again XD

._."

Actually, listening to a lot of Florence + the Machine makes me think of Anders now. I can't decide if it really is reflective of him/his romance, or if it's just because that's all that's on my brain recently.

[Thiefy]

so wait guys i have a question, if you side with the templars will you always face off against anders at the end if you spare him? even romanced or rivalmanced?

[Magaloo]

Thank you Surely!  That bug with Merrill kept makng me think that I was missing stuff

Edit because obviously quotes have it against me this morning so there I erased them all!

Modifié par Magaloo, 21 mars 2011 - 02:59 .