57020 réponses à ce sujet

[purplecookie]

ipgd wrote...

We should be comparing it to real life. DA2 is purposefully set up to be culturally relevant and mirror those kinds of events. It's not silly at all; we should be taking games more seriously, not less.

What does need to be avoided is getting so personally involved you can't step back and look at it any deeper than the superficial similarities. Anders is by all accounts a terrorist, and that's certainly a not-so-good thing, but it's also a very interesting thing worth discussing. Letting yourself become blinded by a sense of obligate rage is a bit of a waste, I think.

Agreed. I genuinely think that a massive contributing factor in the general hate directed at Anders is because of refusing to look past the immediate "Anders is a terrorist" emotional reaction. The immediate reaction to the Chantry blowing up is "That's terrorism, Anders is a terrorist, I can't believe he just did that". There's no consideration of character motivation and differing perspectives, it's more oversimplification of a complex fictional scenario that, as you say, is a missed opportunity for discussion and analysis.

Edit: Balls, top of the page and I'm out of screenshots. This is the only Anders pic at I have at hand (since I haven't figured out how to link pics from deviantArt yet) - apologies for self spamming!

Modifié par purplecookie, 13 mai 2011 - 03:13 .

[darkgriever26]

And I definitely agree with ElleMullineux. He is mentally unstable. I don't want to give psychological terminologies here but well I dunno if it is right to say it here. I mean I still think of the game as fiction with some little bits of realism to give it more impact.

But anyway, I guess I'll only explain it if you guys would like to. I like how they developed Anders in the story and I sympathize his condition, in which case his mental instability.

[highcastle]

@darkgriever: Anders' writer has gone on record comparing his condition with bipolar disorder. Coming from a family where this condition is prevalent, I have to agree the parallels are there. And I think it adds another layer to the discussion. Did Anders do this because he is mentally unstable? If so, does that mean the game suggests all people who do such things are similarly unbalanced? I'm not suggesting an answer, I just think it merits discussion.

[kromify]

highcastle wrote...

@darkgriever: Anders' writer has gone on record comparing his condition with bipolar disorder. Coming from a family where this condition is prevalent, I have to agree the parallels are there. And I think it adds another layer to the discussion. Did Anders do this because he is mentally unstable? If so, does that mean the game suggests all people who do such things are similarly unbalanced? I'm not suggesting an answer, I just think it merits discussion.

so was he bipolar before justice or only after? 

[tmp7704]

Amondra wrote...

Thinking about them isn't silly, but when people put shutters over their eyes, and act like he blew up a Grand Cathedril(?) in real life it becomes silly.

Well, he did a close equivalent of it. The "but it's not real life" argument is rather dubious to me, since within his fictional world both Anders himself and his deeds are as real as it gets. I'm fairly sure the writer of Anders wasn't devising Anders' thought processes and actions with the extra factor of "lol i'm just a fictional character in a computer game". The character believes he's real and his actions have true impact on a real world, just like we believe we are real and our actions have real impact, as well. So these actions and beliefs can be evaluated just like those of a real person.

Look at it this way -- Quentin and Vaughan are also characters in the same virtual universe. But it seems generally accepted that their actions can invoke genuine emotion in the player, and they don't seem to get the free pass of "but it's just computer game, people".

That said, i'd be reluctant to equal Anders with typical image of a terrorist. The resolutionists fit that one obviously, but Anders seems more like an extremist who loses it at some point.

[Sialater]

ipgd wrote...

We should be comparing it to real life. DA2 is purposefully set up to be culturally relevant and mirror those kinds of events. It's not silly at all; we should be taking games more seriously, not less.

What does need to be avoided is getting so personally involved you can't step back and look at it any deeper than the superficial similarities. Anders is by all accounts a terrorist, and that's certainly a not-so-good thing, but it's also a very interesting thing worth discussing. Letting yourself become blinded by a sense of obligate rage is a bit of a waste, I think.

This.  

[darkgriever26]

@highcastle
yeah I figured that during the course of my playthrough and yes it is an interesting discussion.

Well in my opinion, maybe he did do it because he is mentally unstable but that doesn't mean that all people who do such things are the same as him. It depends upon the type of goal, reason and not mention what triggered it to create such a chaos in the world.

By the way I understand how this game is becoming more parallel to the real world. But despite all this, I think this is also good way to reflect on things that are really happening now without getting overboard. And I guess this is also the reason why the game's story attracted me so much because it makes me reflect on the things that are happening right now.

Now those people who are getting it over their heads...well I don't know anymore. I personally think there's nothing wrong with discussions such as these but taking it too personally is something else I guess

Just my thoughts.

[Sialater]

kromify wrote...

highcastle wrote...

@darkgriever: Anders' writer has gone on record comparing his condition with bipolar disorder. Coming from a family where this condition is prevalent, I have to agree the parallels are there. And I think it adds another layer to the discussion. Did Anders do this because he is mentally unstable? If so, does that mean the game suggests all people who do such things are similarly unbalanced? I'm not suggesting an answer, I just think it merits discussion.

so was he bipolar before justice or only after? 

Ms. Hepler has indicated he started off that way, I think.

[kromify]

Sialater wrote...

kromify wrote...

highcastle wrote...

@darkgriever: Anders' writer has gone on record comparing his condition with bipolar disorder. Coming from a family where this condition is prevalent, I have to agree the parallels are there. And I think it adds another layer to the discussion. Did Anders do this because he is mentally unstable? If so, does that mean the game suggests all people who do such things are similarly unbalanced? I'm not suggesting an answer, I just think it merits discussion.

so was he bipolar before justice or only after? 

Ms. Hepler has indicated he started off that way, I think.

maybe he was on a high when he accepted justice then?!

[ipgd]

kromify wrote...

so was he bipolar before justice or only after?

It's never explored in any detail, but Awakening Anders being biploar in a manic phase wouldn't be much of a stretch. He had a lot of crap going on there in hindsight.


I don't think there was any implication that all terrorists/revolutionaries/what have you are mentally unstable. Anders is played pretty sympathetically considering.

[Ninche]

I personally think Anders was handling his personal issues and messed up past extremely well before Justice came along, (extremely well for someone who's gone through what he's gone through) what happened then is that he stopped being selfish and became selfless instead, stopped running from everyone including himself and more or less faced his fears which might have triggered the whole condition. I'm not sure he'd be bipolar without justice, and even after the merge he seems to be in control most of the time and remains calm and devoted to his patients and cause (and lover). He tries changing things peacefully for years before the chantry fiasco, to me calling him mentally unstable makes him sound like someone completely detached from reality or someone with no concern for people's lives at all, and claiming he blew up a church because he was mentally unstable undermines his whole cause, he did it because of -insert all pro-mage freedom arguments- or maybe I'm the only person who doesn't believe you need to be mentally unstable to blow Elthina up ^^

[ipgd]

Ninche wrote...

or maybe I'm the only person who doesn't believe you need to be mentally unstable to blow Elthina up ^^

You don't have to be, but Anders certainly is. He obviously had reasons to do what he did, and his mental problems weren't the cause of them, but uh... he's sort of a nutjob, all the same.

[darkgriever26]

Hmm...now I'm curious as well. But I guess he was already bipolar before Justice? It's just that it hasn't triggered yet during Awakening. Now after the merge with Justice well...maybe it gave him a bit of a boost to trigger that. I can't say for certain. Who knows...

[TotoroTori]

So is this a bad time to bring in some smut? Since yall are talking about Bipolar Anders




mila-valentine.deviantart.com/art/Intimacy-208637508

Because I just really want to show off Mila's artwork once again....


Because if so I'll just be lalala away with my smut bombing.

Modifié par TotoroTori, 13 mai 2011 - 04:28 .

[Ninche]

ipgd wrote...

Ninche wrote...

or maybe I'm the only person who doesn't believe you need to be mentally unstable to blow Elthina up ^^

You don't have to be, but Anders certainly is. He obviously had reasons to do what he did, and his mental problems weren't the cause of them, but uh... he's sort of a nutjob, all the same.

^^ What you said, basically. As long as Anders is a "tender and devoted lover" and takes his extreme downs and aggression on someone else I don't mind <3

and @TotoroTori: I think we could all use some smut right now, good timing! 

[tmp7704]

Doesn't seem there would be ever a bad time for this sort of smut.

[highcastle]

ipgd wrote...

kromify wrote...

so was he bipolar before justice or only after?

It's never explored in any detail, but Awakening Anders being biploar in a manic phase wouldn't be much of a stretch. He had a lot of crap going on there in hindsight.


I don't think there was any implication that all terrorists/revolutionaries/what have you are mentally unstable. Anders is played pretty sympathetically considering.

Regardless of whether or not he has textbook bipolar in Awakening, I think it's safe to assume he was dealing with some kind of trauma. Why? Because of the year he spent in solitary confinement. As probably almost everyone on this thread knows by now, I've been studying corrections. Everything I understand about solitary says that if you go in there with the slightest bit of mental unbalance, it tends to be amplified. This isn't true in all cases, of course (I interviewed one man who converted to Buddhism and took up meditation and he was surprisingly well-adjusted despite having been in solitary for 11 months). It does seem to hold true in many cases, though.

The lack of stimulation, the lack of human contact, it can break many people down. These are men who are not allowed the slightest bit of human touch or interaction. Thus recidivism rates upon release are astronomically higher than they are for other prisoners. Mostly because the inmates say they've forgotten how to deal with people.

So why do I bring this up? Well, in Awakening Anders seems pretty comfortable dealing with people for a man who just got out of solitary. He deflects all deeper inquiries with humor, yes, but he doesn't turn around and attack people for walking up behind him. He's not lashing out at everyone around him. So I think the idea that he's in a bout of mania during this period is a sound one. Otherwise, I have a hard time explaining why he would be in such (relatively speaking) good spirits.

[kromify]

Ninche wrote...

I personally think Anders was handling his personal issues and messed up past extremely well before Justice came along, (extremely well for someone who's gone through what he's gone through) what happened then is that he stopped being selfish and became selfless instead, stopped running from everyone including himself and more or less faced his fears which might have triggered the whole condition. I'm not sure he'd be bipolar without justice, and even after the merge he seems to be in control most of the time and remains calm and devoted to his patients and cause (and lover). He tries changing things peacefully for years before the chantry fiasco, to me calling him mentally unstable makes him sound like someone completely detached from reality or someone with no concern for people's lives at all, and claiming he blew up a church because he was mentally unstable undermines his whole cause, he did it because of -insert all pro-mage freedom arguments- or maybe I'm the only person who doesn't believe you need to be mentally unstable to blow Elthina up ^^

it's more of a contributing factor. 
also as a biologist i tend to think of things that others believe are outside the "norm" as just normal variation; as the edges of the bell curve. "mentally unstable" is thinking outside the box 

[Ashwraith]

kromify wrote...

also as a biologist i tend to think of things that others believe are outside the "norm" as just normal variation; as the edges of the bell curve. "mentally unstable" is thinking outside the box 

Thinking outside the box is all well and good, unless it becomes a handicap.
There's a difference, for example, between a different worldview and a crippling neurosis that renders you incapable of fending for yourself. Just sayin'.

[kromify]

Ashwraith wrote...

kromify wrote...

also as a biologist i tend to think of things that others believe are outside the "norm" as just normal variation; as the edges of the bell curve. "mentally unstable" is thinking outside the box 

Thinking outside the box is all well and good, unless it becomes a handicap.
There's a difference, for example, between a different worldview and a crippling neurosis that renders you incapable of fending for yourself. Just sayin'.

i'm not denying that there is such a thing as mental illness; it's just that it's very often exaggerated and changed by perceptions. i couldn't find the paper i was looking for, but this seems to cover the topic quite well.     http://www.nytimes.c...pagewanted=1

for anyone not interested in reading it all; basically, different cultures have different mental illnesses, by exporting our opinions to other cultures we have changed the expression of mental illness in these cultures, and american pharm companies have actually created a market in japan for their anti-depression meds.

[Loain]

"Mentally unstable is thinking outside the box" I love this. I may have to to use it somewhere, facebook, essay, answering machine message, pick up line.

Real Anders pic to make up for Mod-Anders

-edit- by vampyyri.deviantart.com/

Modifié par Loain, 13 mai 2011 - 05:28 .

[ashyraine]

purplecookie wrote...

Ninche wrote...

I realised eysterday Varric and Anders and Isabela all have the same brown eyes. I don't know how I feel about it yet

Something I realised recently that I found a bit disturbing was that Anders has the same eyebrows as... wait actually, should probably keep that to myself!

Here's a Happy Anders pics instead

Hmm looking at that pic I'd have to say LOTC's default eye texture mod (changes all eyes in game) makes them too dark and pineappletree's vibrant eyes (also changes all eyes in the game) makes them too pale. Which is kinda sad because I especially liked how the latter made my character's eyes look

[darkgriever26]

kromify wrote...

Ashwraith wrote...

kromify wrote...

also as a biologist i tend to think of things that others believe are outside the "norm" as just normal variation; as the edges of the bell curve. "mentally unstable" is thinking outside the box 

Thinking outside the box is all well and good, unless it becomes a handicap.
There's a difference, for example, between a different worldview and a crippling neurosis that renders you incapable of fending for yourself. Just sayin'.

i'm not denying that there is such a thing as mental illness; it's just that it's very often exaggerated and changed by perceptions. i couldn't find the paper i was looking for, but this seems to cover the topic quite well.     http://www.nytimes.c...pagewanted=1

for anyone not interested in reading it all; basically, different cultures have different mental illnesses, by exporting our opinions to other cultures we have changed the expression of mental illness in these cultures, and american pharm companies have actually created a market in japan for their anti-depression meds.

Hmmm...interesting. And yes I'll have to agree that mental illnesses are often exaggerated [especially in the media]. I've studied that in my Abnormal psychology class once and believe me. It is hard to tell one mental illness from another due to the overlaps with the symptoms.

Edit: Hey I like that gif of Hawke and Anders. It's cute

Modifié par darkgriever26, 13 mai 2011 - 05:28 .

[Mekarah]

Two hours without a post!? Well fine, I'm just going to leave this here then, for funsies.