Amondra wrote...
Completely of topic. EA support if for the birds
Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mai 2011 - 11:47 .
Ashwraith wrote...
Batteries wrote...
ashyraine wrote...
It's sad but I did a run through anyway for science. And to see the manifesto get read. It was kind of interesting that even rival Hawke is all "I want you right here til the day we die!!!!!" Also, Justice is one scary SOB on the rival path. (My apologies for my computer sucking).
Lmao.
"There must be a peaceful solution..."
"No."
"If you talk to the Grand Cleric!..."
"No."
Little did Anders realize, Justice had possessed a living host once before.
That living host was Sten. >.>
Modifié par ashyraine, 21 mai 2011 - 11:44 .
Xilizhra wrote...
Your mileage, it seems, varies. I've always found the rivalmance to be akin to convincing Fenris that he'd be better off as a slave.
highcastle wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Your mileage, it seems, varies. I've always found the rivalmance to be akin to convincing Fenris that he'd be better off as a slave.
This is pretty much my interpretation, too. You spend the entire rivalmance telling Anders that what he's doing is wrong, what he's fighting for is wrong, what he is on a basic level is wrong. How is that not breaking his spirit?
Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mai 2011 - 11:52 .
All of the dialogue options you need to take to gain rivalry. In-game, not just talking with him.Where is all this "You're wrong and are always wrong and mages should be locked up." coming from?
Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 mai 2011 - 11:52 .
Xilizhra wrote...
Your mileage, it seems, varies. I've always found the rivalmance to be akin to convincing Fenris that he'd be better off as a slave.
Xilizhra wrote...
All of the dialogue options you need to take to gain rivalry.Where is all this "You're wrong and are always wrong and mages should be locked up." coming from?
Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mai 2011 - 11:54 .
Ryzaki wrote...
highcastle wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Your mileage, it seems, varies. I've always found the rivalmance to be akin to convincing Fenris that he'd be better off as a slave.
This is pretty much my interpretation, too. You spend the entire rivalmance telling Anders that what he's doing is wrong, what he's fighting for is wrong, what he is on a basic level is wrong. How is that not breaking his spirit?
Except you don't tell him what he's fighting for is wrong, what he wants is wrong on a basic level.
Hawke's trying to get him to find a compromise .
Where does Hawke tel him fighting for mages freedom is wrong? Mine told him the way he was going about it wasn't right but not that the goal itself was wrong.
Did I miss something?
Its not required for you to tell him that during the rivalrymance. Anymore than it is required for you to push him into extremist methods on the friendshipmance.
By saying that, you're effectively endorsing the Circle system; you never talked about any alternative that I know of.Ryzaki wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
All of the dialogue options you need to take to gain rivalry.Where is all this "You're wrong and are always wrong and mages should be locked up." coming from?
Examples would be nice since you're going to use a blanket statement like all.
I managed to max out Anders rivalry simply by saying mages were dangerous and should be watched. Not that they *should* be locked up in circles. Nor did I say Anders was wrong to want mage freedom.
You *can* say that sure. You don't have too.
highcastle wrote...
Because regardless of what you may choose in dialogue or actions, the rivalry path assumes Hawke is anti-mage. Anders accuses him of being so in several conversations. This is one of those instances where the friendship/rivalry system shows its limitations. It doesn't handle the possibility of Hawke not being anti-mage.
It also seems to assume that Hawke does not support the merger with Justice. Being an abomination is a very fundamental part of Anders, honestly. And telling him you love him but that you dislike this part of him when it's so tightly entwined with his core beliefs...yeah, I see that as pretty damaging.
Xilizhra wrote...
By saying that, you're effectively endorsing the Circle system; you never talked about any alternative that I know of.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mai 2011 - 11:58 .
I think it's an intent vs. result thing. The rival Hawke may not intend to break Anders. The result is still a broken Anders.highcastle wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Your mileage, it seems, varies. I've always found the rivalmance to be akin to convincing Fenris that he'd be better off as a slave.
This is pretty much my interpretation, too. You spend the entire rivalmance telling Anders that what he's doing is wrong, what he's fighting for is wrong, what he is on a basic level is wrong. How is that not breaking his spirit?
Agreed. The only one that works is Sebastian's, and his rivalry is different from everyone else's.Which is why I won't do it. Even for science. Rival-mances in general just hurt my brain. Why would you want to be with someone when they fully and vocally disagree with you on a point which is fundamental to who you are? I just...don't get it. But maybe that's just me being the stubborn person that I am.
dpMeggers wrote...
II think it's an intent vs. result thing. The rival Hawke may not intend to break Anders. The result is still a broken Anders.
Which is why I won't do it. Even for science. Rival-mances in general just hurt my brain. Why would you want to be with someone when they fully and vocally disagree with you on a point which is fundamental to who you are? I just...don't get it. But maybe that's just me being the stubborn person that I am.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 mai 2011 - 12:04 .
Ryzaki wrote...
highcastle wrote...
Because regardless of what you may choose in dialogue or actions, the rivalry path assumes Hawke is anti-mage. Anders accuses him of being so in several conversations. This is one of those instances where the friendship/rivalry system shows its limitations. It doesn't handle the possibility of Hawke not being anti-mage.
It also seems to assume that Hawke does not support the merger with Justice. Being an abomination is a very fundamental part of Anders, honestly. And telling him you love him but that you dislike this part of him when it's so tightly entwined with his core beliefs...yeah, I see that as pretty damaging.
No it doesn't assume you're anti mage.
It assumes you're antimages running around unchecked.
And that conversation above shows Hawke not being anti-mage. Unless anti-mage simply means not wanting them completely without restrictions.
That is true. To me however it isn't a fundmental part. I don't see justice and Anders as one being. Just two different minds shoved in one body.
highcastle wrote...
"You've been right all along. What I've done with Justice is unnatural." This says that Hawke has been saying the merger with Justice is wrong regardless of what you might have picked in dialogue. Regardless of your personal feelings, Anders did merge with Justice. Just how integrated they are is debatable and I won't get into it. But it defines him. "I took a spirit into my body and changed myself forever to achieve this," remember?
If Hawke walks around saying the merger is wrong, what Anders did to himself is wrong, then he's essentially saying Anders as a person is wrong. Not his ideals or his goals, him. But he's still willing to sleep with him. Man oh man, the mixed messages. I stand by my point that this would break him. You might not want it to, but it does. And Anders himself seems to confirm that, hence the goodbye kiss and the general feeling that he won't be living long after this.
Nope, I'll stick with my friendmance.
Just don't appreciate having the romance I choose said to be abusive and trying to break him when while that maybe the result was certainly not the intention. Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 mai 2011 - 12:15 .
Blurgh.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 22 mai 2011 - 12:12 .
Ryzaki wrote...
dpMeggers wrote...
II think it's an intent vs. result thing. The rival Hawke may not intend to break Anders. The result is still a broken Anders.
Which is why I won't do it. Even for science. Rival-mances in general just hurt my brain. Why would you want to be with someone when they fully and vocally disagree with you on a point which is fundamental to who you are? I just...don't get it. But maybe that's just me being the stubborn person that I am.
Now I agree about the result. Anders is pretty broken on the rivalr path. The intent being said to be breaking him is what made me go "uh..."
It's a personal preference thing no more no less.
My Hawke didn't completely disagree with him about mages anyway. It was the fact that he was so uncompromising and had no structure laid out that made my Hawke take a step back and go "...Uh...no."
Ryzaki wrote...
By that logic telling someone who does drugs and you love them all the time is essentially saying their wrong because you want them to stop. I disagree about defining. He choose to let it define him. It didn't have too. He was weak and decided to rely on a supernatural being to accomplish his dreams instead of standing on his own.
By that logic someone who is in a relationship with someone who cuts themselvesand tells them that they shouldn't do that. That its wrong. Is saying the person as a whole is wrong. Which...isn't the case. The action itself doesn't condemn the person automaticaly. Justice and Anders are not the same being to me. Never will be.
Never said you had to change.
Ryzaki wrote...
highcastle wrote...
"You've been right all along. What I've done with Justice is unnatural." This says that Hawke has been saying the merger with Justice is wrong regardless of what you might have picked in dialogue. Regardless of your personal feelings, Anders did merge with Justice. Just how integrated they are is debatable and I won't get into it. But it defines him. "I took a spirit into my body and changed myself forever to achieve this," remember?
If Hawke walks around saying the merger is wrong, what Anders did to himself is wrong, then he's essentially saying Anders as a person is wrong. Not his ideals or his goals, him. But he's still willing to sleep with him. Man oh man, the mixed messages. I stand by my point that this would break him. You might not want it to, but it does. And Anders himself seems to confirm that, hence the goodbye kiss and the general feeling that he won't be living long after this.
Nope, I'll stick with my friendmance.
By that logic telling someone who does drugs and you love them all the time is essentially saying their wrong because you want them to stop. I disagree about defining. He choose to let it define him. It didn't have too. He was weak and decided to rely on a supernatural being to accomplish his dreams instead of standing on his own. Similar to me to people I know who rely on drugs for happiness because they don't think they can manage it on their own.
By that logic someone who is in a relationship with someone who cuts themselvesand tells them that they shouldn't do that. That its wrong. Is saying the person as a whole is wrong. Which...isn't the case. The action itself doesn't condemn the person automaticaly. Justice and Anders are not the same being to me. Never will be.
Never said you had to change.
I'll stick with my rivalmance where I try to get Anders to stand on his own instead of being hobbled by some spirit.
Ryzaki wrote...
Amondra wrote...
Completely of topic. EA support if for the birds
Ouch. What's wrong?
Even more off topic: I'm playing Fable 3 and I really don't get the hate. Its fine. More fun than I thought it would be and I like the consequences my actions had.
Amondra wrote...
First I enjoyed Fable 3 too so you are not alone.
When I start up DA 2 on my laptop it links to my account just fine, but if I was to try and play on my Desktop it won't link all it says is the servers are down. I spent an hour talking to them, and nothing, they just blamed my internet that works fine except when my Desktop wants to plat DA 2
Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 mai 2011 - 12:32 .
Amondra wrote...
*tip toes into this one*
As much as I don't care for this conversation, just want to put my two cents in.
I agree with the above. I however look at Anders from another point of view. He is mentally unstable, and from personal experience, the tough love route is not always the good one. Sometimes( in some cases all the time) We need a special kind of support and understanding. Anders is a lot like bi-polar who have it bad. You latch on to something no matter what it is, in his case a cause, and everything becomes second, even loved ones. So it takes a special person to hold on to that. Granted he isn't bi-polar, but he acts like one because of Justice. Also he kinda admits Justice pulled him into doing it, maybe even if it wasn't Justice, but Nate saying "Seriously we need to help mages" he still would have done it. Maybe he didn't want to go at it alone, who knows we are not Anders or his writers.
Basically, even if in the rivalery path you may not be anti-mage and you may not be saying you are ****. That isn't what he will be hearing, people like that warp things, and often send them into much darker places then they are already.
It is because of this personal understanding I don't care for the rivalmance, it hits to close to home, but then again it is how I see it. I will still give it a shot come the patch.
Like I said my two cents.
highcastle wrote...
Amondra wrote...
*tip toes into this one*
As much as I don't care for this conversation, just want to put my two cents in.
I agree with the above. I however look at Anders from another point of view. He is mentally unstable, and from personal experience, the tough love route is not always the good one. Sometimes( in some cases all the time) We need a special kind of support and understanding. Anders is a lot like bi-polar who have it bad. You latch on to something no matter what it is, in his case a cause, and everything becomes second, even loved ones. So it takes a special person to hold on to that. Granted he isn't bi-polar, but he acts like one because of Justice. Also he kinda admits Justice pulled him into doing it, maybe even if it wasn't Justice, but Nate saying "Seriously we need to help mages" he still would have done it. Maybe he didn't want to go at it alone, who knows we are not Anders or his writers.
Basically, even if in the rivalery path you may not be anti-mage and you may not be saying you are ****. That isn't what he will be hearing, people like that warp things, and often send them into much darker places then they are already.
It is because of this personal understanding I don't care for the rivalmance, it hits to close to home, but then again it is how I see it. I will still give it a shot come the patch.
Like I said my two cents.
That's been my general experience, too. Bipolar runs in my family, so I've seen it from the side of loving someone with this condition. And I would never sit there and tell them in the harshest terms possible that what they're doing is wrong--even if it is--in the middle of an episode. It's asking for trouble.
And I think you could make a case for Anders having actual bipolar disorder even without Justice. His mood in Awakening is generally pretty peppy despite coming off of a year in solitary confinement. I read it as a manic state, personally.
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