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[darkgriever26]

DragonRacer wrote...

darkgriever26 wrote...

Pretty good insight [And you've just mentioned one of my favorite Psych theorist haha! ]

Ahh yes...such symbolisms made me greatly interested with this game! Bioware really did a great job with this 
Edit: They may not be intended but it is very fascinating to note. Good job as well for noticing it. [I didn't manage to hear that in my playthroughs but if I did, I might have researched it as well.]

Thanks! Some would probably just say I overthink this stuff, but then again, we ALL are on a forum making in-depth conversations about a video game character, so I'm in good company, right?

The banter isn't long, but this is it:


Merrill: Have I ever mentioned I like your coat?
Anders: You do?
Merrill: It's very lively! Like a crow in the middle of anting!
Anders: That's.... that's great. Thanks, Merrill.

Granted, as much as the crow comment set my mind to thinking, I did have to go look up what in the world "anting" is. LOL

Haha! I also look up the word "anting" too when I first heard of the banter in youtube. But then I forgot to research the symbolism of crows O well...at least now I know And by the way, it's not really bad to overthink games. In fact what hooked me to reserach was Anders' state of mind. I even checked my Abnormal Psychology books to check if he's a bipolar of schizophenia [It tends to get confusing because of his grandeur cause and means plus he has Justice :lol:]

O well..I need to go to sleep I still have a seminar to attend to.

But lastly, I like games that have those bits of symbolisms and Psychology because it's really interesting. It's not just fight here fight there and no good story to give it some foundation. Plus in DA2's case, they made a great story and some really sensible symbolisms to give the gaming experience more depth.

Edit: Top so here's a pic with Anders

Modifié par darkgriever26, 22 mai 2011 - 05:19 .

[JesterPsychotica]

Hey Andersfans!

I was wondering if any of you were interested in joining the DA:O/A/2 group "Of Blood and Lyrium". We're currently recruiting for players right now.

http://z15.invisionf...dex.php?act=idx

The reason I came to the Anders board (besides loving you guys!) is we are looking for someone to play Anders, and who has a good understanding of his complex character. If you are interested, please apply.

[legbamel]

chq wrote...

berelinde wrote...
I like the symbolism of the raven for Anders and his revolution. Makes perfect sense to me.

And somehow, the really good discussions always happen 2-4 hours before I read this thread and it always feels like thread necromancy to bring it up again.

I agree with the posters who compared Anders to Sebastian. They do have a great deal in common. Blind devotion to a cause that interferes with their ability to form relationships with others, etc. But there is a point when that comparison breaks down. There is nothing Anders does not sacrifice for his cause. In many peoples' games, the biggest thing he gives up is his life. Scratch that. In everyone's game, he loses his life over it, or at least the life he wanted. Even if the PC spares him, his life will never be the same again. Sebastian risks nothing. It is other people who must give up the things that matter to them to make his dreams happen for him. Anders does what he does for the benefit of others, even strangers. Sebastian says that he will slaughter thousands of innocents because one person (who is either dead or has long-since fled the city) killed someone he cared about. Anders goes to great lengths to prevent the PC from being blamed for his crimes, even if it happens anyway. Who knows what Sebastian would do in similar circumstances.

It seems to me like their similarities make their differences stand out in sharper profile.

De-lurking to say this isn't necessarily fair to Sebastian.  He has given up a lot for his faith, i.e. vows of chastity and poverty and whatnot; if he's less radical about giving of himself, that's probably because he actually cares about hsi own mental health, unlike Anders.  

As for the IMMA INVADE UR CITY AND KILL UR DUDES thing, I'm not sure that once he's calmed down and thought about it he'll actually do it.  When he says that he's understandably really really upset.  His home, the place he's lived for at least the past seven years, has just been totally blown sky high.  It's the only place where he's really felt any sense of peace or belonging his whole life.  Besides Elthina, all of the Brothers and Sisters who he'd lived with for years and hung out with whenever he wasn't following Hawke around and who were probably his good friends were in there.  I mean, of course he's flipping out, anyone would be flipping out.  And then Hawke goes NOPE NOT GONNA KILL ANDERS and he's like whaaaaa......?!  I mean, even Anders agrees that Anders deserves to die at this point; since the game doesn't give you a "make him stand trial" choice or some other comparable option, this is the only justice possible for his actions.  So if that justice is denied... yeah, Sebastian is pissed and freaking out.  I think he has a right to be.  Whether he lets this really traumatic event make him go all Punisher or whether he remembers Elthina's lessons on forgiveness and doesn't ultimately start a war over the whole thing remains to be seen, but the moment was really heated and I think there's a possibility of him not following through on the threat.

I was going to snip this but since it's a new page I'll leave the whole thing.  But I do think it's important to keep in mind that, despite Seb's only mentioning Elthina by name, Anders has just killed everyone who replaced his family after they were slaughtered.  It seems perfectly in character for a guy you first met asking you to kill the people who had just killed his family to threaten death and destruction for you failing to do the same a second time, regardless of your relationship therewith.

I do seriously doubt he can or will do it himself but by the time he could manage Anders will either be dead already or long gone.  There would be no point in his laying seige to Kirkwall at that point.

[ipgd]

He may not actually raze Kirkwall (I don't think he was being literal in that statement), but I think he will follow through with his intent to take back Starkhaven and go to great lengths to quash Anders (if he was spared) and the revolution he spawned. That he was very pointedly written to always be alive, despite having a very opportune time to be killed by the player, suggests he will have significant plot relevance in the future.

[Amondra]

ipgd wrote...

He may not actually raze Kirkwall (I don't think he was being literal in that statement), but I think he will follow through with his intent to take back Starkhaven and go to great lengths to quash Anders (if he was spared) and the revolution he spawned. That he was very pointedly written to always be alive, despite having a very opportune time to be killed by the player, suggests he will have significant plot relevance in the future.

Agreed, but what puzzles me is, if he plays a bigger role in the future why make a DLC? granted most people have him, but that is besides the point; you would think they would have just had him in the game to begin with.

[ipgd]

Amondra wrote...

ipgd wrote...

He may not actually raze Kirkwall (I don't think he was being literal in that statement), but I think he will follow through with his intent to take back Starkhaven and go to great lengths to quash Anders (if he was spared) and the revolution he spawned. That he was very pointedly written to always be alive, despite having a very opportune time to be killed by the player, suggests he will have significant plot relevance in the future.

Agreed, but what puzzles me is, if he plays a bigger role in the future why make a DLC? granted most people have him, but that is besides the point; you would think they would have just had him in the game to begin with.

If it weren't for DLC he would have never existed to begin with.

Not really that much different from Anders being from an expansion.

[berelinde]

Hmm, that would be interesting, Sebastian returning as a canon character in an expansion or sequel. I wonder if he would be more of a sympathetic character. He was brilliantly written, IMO. It's really hard to be indifferent about him. Still, if he were a companion rather than an adversary, a lot of people would be going into it with some pretty negative feelings toward him.

Just thinking about him as an anti-Anders. Anders was arguably the best-loved character in Awakenings, but in DA2, those that love him are probably a minority. Sebastian doesn't exactly have Anders' popularity.

Edit: Forgot the point of the post! You wouldn't have to change his backstory at all in DA3/expansion. If you didn't have the DLC, you never met him. He was still there. He was just lurking nearby when Anders did his thing, rather than in the Chantry with Elthina. Unfortunately.

Modifié par berelinde, 22 mai 2011 - 07:00 .

[Evilnor]

Well, no matter how you slice it, the Chantry still blows up with the Grand Cleric inside it and Sebastian being a Chantry brother. Sort of like Meredith, this could give him plenty of reason to flip out, hate mages, and go all militant on them to put down the rebellion, even if you never got his DLC. So basically the point of the DLC could be only to give him more backstory for when he shows up later.

Regardless, there are possibly eventually important people who were living in Kirkwall that the Champion DIDN'T meet while he/she was there. If you never got Sebastian, he's only one of those potentially important people

[CalJones]

Shame Sebastian wasn't in the chantry when it blew.

[SmilingDeceit]

CalJones wrote...

Shame Sebastian wasn't in the chantry when it blew.

My Hawke would have given Anders a highfive if that was the case.

[Amondra]

ipgd wrote...

Amondra wrote...

ipgd wrote...

He may not actually raze Kirkwall (I don't think he was being literal in that statement), but I think he will follow through with his intent to take back Starkhaven and go to great lengths to quash Anders (if he was spared) and the revolution he spawned. That he was very pointedly written to always be alive, despite having a very opportune time to be killed by the player, suggests he will have significant plot relevance in the future.

Agreed, but what puzzles me is, if he plays a bigger role in the future why make a DLC? granted most people have him, but that is besides the point; you would think they would have just had him in the game to begin with.

If it weren't for DLC he would have never existed to begin with.

Not really that much different from Anders being from an expansion.

Good point, I keep for getting Awakening was an expansion.

[Xilizhra]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Oh Anders, I'm so proud of you. Just finished 'On The Loose' and I usually lie and say that Emile's dead, but I hit the wrong option this time, and Anders had a face off with Meredith! That's my boy!
And then straight after I got the Merril/Anders dialogue about Anders being happy. Ahhhhhhh... this game knows how to cheer me up.

Doesn't she try to hunt him down later?

[Heidenreich]

SmilingDeceit wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Shame Sebastian wasn't in the chantry when it blew.

My Hawke would have given Anders a highfive if that was the case.

Mine too. **** thart dude and his raging troll face "OMG KILL ANDERS *trollface* OR I"LL BRUN UR CITY TO THE GRRRRRROUUUUUUUUUNNNNND"

AngieHawke: YANNO SEB.. I thought you were cute till JUST NOW. Now i hate you. Fenris, please kill Sebastian for me while I figure out what to do with Anders.

[Camilladilla]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

Oh Anders, I'm so proud of you. Just finished 'On The Loose' and I usually lie and say that Emile's dead, but I hit the wrong option this time, and Anders had a face off with Meredith! That's my boy!
And then straight after I got the Merril/Anders dialogue about Anders being happy. Ahhhhhhh... this game knows how to cheer me up.

Doesn't she try to hunt him down later?

I know when I had Fenris in my group, and he ratted me out, she said she'd go after him. I don't remember her mentioning it this time. If she did I was Anders-Awe and too busy wibbling with passionate shouty rebel apostate lust.

Edit - Just seen this on dA and it was too cute!

By http://thesilverraven.deviantart.com/

Bwahaha

Yeeeeeessss.... Anders is totally a coffee fiend.

[CalJones]

Aww I just want to wrap him up in a blankie and put him to bed.

[Amondra]

Coffee is to Anders what lyrium is to Templars

[Ninche]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Oh Anders, I'm so proud of you. Just finished 'On The Loose' and I usually lie and say that Emile's dead, but I hit the wrong option this time, and Anders had a face off with Meredith! That's my boy!
And then straight after I got the Merril/Anders dialogue about Anders being happy. Ahhhhhhh... this game knows how to cheer me up.

Ohh! The whole Act3 is like a grey blurr in my mind, because after I did Justice q for the first time and Anders went all giving-personal-things-away and "I want to tell you now, I love you. Don't ever blame yourself for what is about to happen" I FREAKED out and RUSHED through all the main plot stuff to see what happens and then the shock wiped away the few things I did pay attention to. But I shall go and see this right now, for science and happiness! 

And about Seb: He was actually a decent contribution to my OH MY GAWD THE LIS ARE SO HOT frenzy in the beginning of DA2 - what with his accent and sexy armor and what not, and my attraction to him slooooowly but suuurely declined the more I brought him along. The whole pious maker this elthina that routine was like a bucket of cold water for my pixel libido. But I didn't hate him, I just didn't care about him much. And then when Anders blew up all his friends I felt BAD and GUILTY and properly cared for his whole tragedy. And then he went all psycho **** on me and.. yeah I am just a woman - I change my mind. So now I'd enjoy setting his ass on fire in a DLC or w/e. 

This illustrates my game strategy for this playthrough: 

Modifié par Ninche, 22 mai 2011 - 09:54 .

[Jean]

Just watched On Stranger Tides and Ser Groves gets brownie points for taking that wig off.

But but but... ;_;

[Razored1313]

Idk if this has been talked about but in my story I spared anders but told him to leave, so when in the area where you talk to your companions, I just ignored him. Then he stayed for the first wave of Templars but not available In the party roster, after the fight all the other NPC mages went towards the exit except for anders, who went to orsino's side right before his transformation. After anders just disappeared!

my theory is that he is used as a piece of the harvester, and I will keep believing that until he can make a cameo later on in an expansion or new game.

[SurelyForth]

froogle345 wrote...

Idk if this has been talked about but in my story I spared anders but told him to leave, so when in the area where you talk to your companions, I just ignored him. Then he stayed for the first wave of Templars but not available In the party roster, after the fight all the other NPC mages went towards the exit except for anders, who went to orsino's side right before his transformation. After anders just disappeared!

my theory is that he is used as a piece of the harvester, and I will keep believing that until he can make a cameo later on in an expansion or new game.

If you would have talked to him, he would have joined your party again. You can even complete the romance. 

And thinking of him as part of the Harvester is the most disturbing thing ever. 

[Amondra]

SurelyForth wrote...

froogle345 wrote...

Idk if this has been talked about but in my story I spared anders but told him to leave, so when in the area where you talk to your companions, I just ignored him. Then he stayed for the first wave of Templars but not available In the party roster, after the fight all the other NPC mages went towards the exit except for anders, who went to orsino's side right before his transformation. After anders just disappeared!

my theory is that he is used as a piece of the harvester, and I will keep believing that until he can make a cameo later on in an expansion or new game.

If you would have talked to him, he would have joined your party again. You can even complete the romance. 

And thinking of him as part of the Harvester is the most disturbing thing ever. 

Justice harvester? 

[purplecookie]

froogle345 wrote...

Idk if this has been talked about but in my story I spared anders but told him to leave, so when in the area where you talk to your companions, I just ignored him. Then he stayed for the first wave of Templars but not available In the party roster, after the fight all the other NPC mages went towards the exit except for anders, who went to orsino's side right before his transformation. After anders just disappeared!

my theory is that he is used as a piece of the harvester, and I will keep believing that until he can make a cameo later on in an expansion or new game.

...That's actually... horrifying. I mean, that whole turning-harvester scene I find quite disturbing anyway but the thought of that on top of it... I think you broke my mind