57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Jean]

Grey Wardens and griffons seem to go hand in hand so I would assume something with Grey Wardens until proven otherwise

[Lady Dino]

 You know, the biggest difference I see between the over all choices you make in DA:O vs DA2 is that the consequences in DA:O effect Ferelden and are made on a far grander scale, where as in DA2 those consequences are more personal and effect Hawke as apposed to a whole country.

This is, I think, where most people find a problem, and they are most often the ones who can thoughtlessly kill Anders for being a terrorist completely forgetting that (I'm not saying that killing him thoughtlessly is a bad thing or that he doesn't deserve it but...) Anders has been Hawke's friend/lover/dedicated healer/companion for the last 7 years. It's not a bad thing to want a grand tale and to want to effect the in-game world but for DA2 that just wasn't in the cards.

I think it was great direction for this particular game because there are somethings in Thedas that are going to happen whether we, the player, like it or not. 

Er, sorry for the thread derailment and posible lack of sense being made, back to your regularly schedualed Andersbutt

/relurks

Modifié par Lady Dino, 27 mai 2011 - 06:11 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Hey guys. I'm new here. I got a crash course in DA2 through a friend's copy, and have been quietly lurking here for about a week while I waited for my copy to arrive, so I could finally post here. It has been torture.

At first I was fooled by all the reviewers who said "Dragon Age 2 doesn't have any real story." Then I spent a weekend DA2 Back Seat Driving. And I was like "holy crap, this game... these characters... this game." I haven't finished an entire playthrough myself yet, but I spent a weekend playing, watching a playthrough, and supplementing my infodumps with wikicrawls and strategic youtubing. I may be half-mad from angst overdose, but from where I'm sitting, DA2 has one of the most unique and ambitious narratives I've seen in an RPG.

It's literally a story about watching a single revolutionary break down in reaction to the continued abuses of a police state, until he finally resorts to terrorism in a desperate attempt to change the status quo. The end game is all about condoning or rejecting this decision. It's V for Vendetta, only in the dark ages and with a much, much more sympathetic character (V is kind of a jerkwad).

So yes, I'm a crazy-ass new convert to your Andersian religion. But here's my question... does this plot somehow get lost or obscured when you're playing the full game? Because I haven't read any reviews that explain that this is the first RPG where the main story is told through the character development rather than a big bad.

So... yeah... /flails.

I know I'm preaching to the converted here, probably. Also, I probably sound nuts. I'll get more coherent as time goes on, I promise.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 27 mai 2011 - 06:12 .

[Zero Tabris]

ashyraine wrote...

lol I never thought to give that ring to Anders. Must..resist...urge to replay Awakening and finish ME instead

Must resist urge to call mate at 2 in the am and ask for my copy back so I can play it before work in 3 hours....

[Camilladilla]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

<snipped awesomeness>

So yes, I'm a crazy-ass new convert to your Andersian religion. But here's my question... does this plot somehow get lost or obscured when you're playing the full game? Because I haven't read any reviews that explain that this is the first RPG where the main story is told through the character development rather than a big bad.

So... yeah... /flails.

I know I'm preaching to the converted here, probably. Also, I probably sound nuts. I'll get more coherent as time goes on, I promise.

A little tired right now so I can't string very coherant thoughts together, but I really felt that DA2's story is lost on a lot of people due to the directon the writers took. They went for the subtle and emotional route this time around whereas a lot of DA2's harshest critics were expecting another grand epic adventure like DAO.

[Lady Dino]

 @Culturalgeekgirl I think you just said what I was trying to say and then some [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie] thank god other people are more eloquent than I am. 

To answer your question, it does a little. You have to be a) not expecting another DA:O (like most people were) and actually be paying attention to and care about your Hawke and her companions. I think a lot of the reviewers out there were looking for your typical rpg and when they didn't see it got confused and moved on to their next game. 

The plot is very subtle and sneaks up on you at the end. I, for one, was delightfully suprised.

[Amondra]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Hey guys. I'm new here. I got a crash course in DA2 through a friend's copy, and have been quietly lurking here for about a week while I waited for my copy to arrive, so I could finally post here. It has been torture.

At first I was fooled by all the reviewers who said "Dragon Age 2 doesn't have any real story." Then I spent a weekend DA2 Back Seat Driving. And I was like "holy crap, this game... these characters... this game." I haven't finished an entire playthrough myself yet, but I spent a weekend playing, watching a playthrough, and supplementing my infodumps with wikicrawls and strategic youtubing. I may be half-mad from angst overdose, but from where I'm sitting, DA2 has one of the most unique and ambitious narratives I've seen in an RPG.

It's literally a story about watching a single revolutionary break down in reaction to the continued abuses of a police state, until he finally resorts to terrorism in a desperate attempt to change the status quo. The end game is all about condoning or rejecting this decision. It's V for Vendetta, only in the dark ages and with a much, much more sympathetic character (V is kind of a jerkwad).

So yes, I'm a crazy-ass new convert to your Andersian religion. But here's my question... does this plot somehow get lost or obscured when you're playing the full game? Because I haven't read any reviews that explain that this is the first RPG where the main story is told through the character development rather than a big bad.

So... yeah... /flails.

I know I'm preaching to the converted here, probably. Also, I probably sound nuts. I'll get more coherent as time goes on, I promise.

To me no.  It was really (like they kept saying) a rags to riches story.  I think what got most people up at arms is two things:
1) It wasn't blight 2.0
2) You can not change the end.  The end is the end.  People felt like Bioware took their control away.  I thought it was nice, because in reality how often does all our hard blow up?(pun intended)  Also it gave all the companions more depth, they were with you because they wanted to not because they had no choice.  They had goals and wants.  So yeah those people like companions in a game with no personal desire.

[Ryzaki]

Amondra wrote...
To me no.  It was really (like they kept saying) a rags to riches story.  I think what got most people up at arms is two things:
1) It wasn't blight 2.0
2) You can not change the end.  The end is the end.  People felt like Bioware took their control away.  I thought it was nice, because in reality how often does all our hard blow up?(pun intended)  Also it gave all the companions more depth, they were with you because they wanted to not because they had no choice.  They had goals and wants.  So yeah those people like companions in a game with no personal desire.

Not trying to start a fight but that's just...plain not true. 

Some people just like different things in a story. Sometimes its that simple. 

Not trying to jump down your throat but I've been hearing that lately and it's bugging me. 

Me disliking the story in DA2 doesn't mean I want my companions to be dolls with no personal desire. If that was the case I wouldn't be playing a BW game. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 mai 2011 - 07:34 .

[Amondra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Amondra wrote...
To me no.  It was really (like they kept saying) a rags to riches story.  I think what got most people up at arms is two things:
1) It wasn't blight 2.0
2) You can not change the end.  The end is the end.  People felt like Bioware took their control away.  I thought it was nice, because in reality how often does all our hard blow up?(pun intended)  Also it gave all the companions more depth, they were with you because they wanted to not because they had no choice.  They had goals and wants.  So yeah those people like companions in a game with no personal desire.

Not trying to start a fight but that's just...plain not true. 

Some people just like different things in a story. Sometimes its that simple. 

True enough, but really the most arguments I have heard were people basically upset because they weren't doing what they wanted.  It was upseting. I like different things in a story to, don't get me wrong it was one of the best thing in DAO

Also I think the only way someone can really start a fight with me on forums is by out right insulting me, other then that I understand everything is a matter of opinion and personal experience.

Modifié par Amondra, 27 mai 2011 - 07:35 .

[Ryzaki]

Amondra wrote...

True enough, but really the most arguments I have heard were people basically upset because they weren't doing what they wanted.  It was upseting. I like different things in a story to, don't get me wrong it was one of the best thing in DAO

My issue is that *Hawke* couldn't read the writing on the wall. (Or do anything without someone poking him/her first really). My character feeling like someone who needed neon flashing signs to do something upset me. 

I actually have no issue with forced plotlines ( I love JRPGs and Persona 3 to death) but DA2's execution felt flat to me. 

I really didn't see so many arguements about the characters personally. Mostly arguements about how everything felt ultimately meaningless and it felt like a giant origin story. (Which to me it kind of did). 

Also I think the only way someone can really start a fight with me on forums is by out right insulting me, other then that I understand everything is a matter of opinion and personal experience.

Just trying to make sure I'm not misinterpretated is all. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 mai 2011 - 07:41 .

[Amondra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Amondra wrote...

True enough, but really the most arguments I have heard were people basically upset because they weren't doing what they wanted.  It was upseting. I like different things in a story to, don't get me wrong it was one of the best thing in DAO

My issue is that *Hawke* couldn't read the writing on the wall. (Or do anything without someone poking him/her first really). My character feeling like someone who needed neon flashing signs to do something upset me. 

I actually have no issue with forced plotlines ( I love JRPGs and Persona 3 to death) but DA2's execution felt flat to me. 

I really didn't see so many arguements about the characters personally. Mostly arguements about how everything felt ultimately meaningless and it felt like a giant origin story. 

Also I think the only way someone can really start a fight with me on forums is by out right insulting me, other then that I understand everything is a matter of opinion and personal experience.

Just trying to make sure I'm not misinterpretated is all. 

I have to admit that Hawke get to play "blond moments" up is annoying,  I mean for crying out loud Anders robes got all dark and screamed " I going to do something stupid!" But no Hawke is going "Oh look he went shoping..."

So I can understand that.  I also see where peopel come from on the falling flat, you pick(best example to me) diplomatic Hawke and you spend the whole game going "can we play nice?" and not matter what it all goes down hill quick like in a hurry.

I was upset by this at first, and then thought "well thats how it would roll with me in real life."  But at the end of the day if they wanted this to happen a certain way, there really was no need for the shody excuse of an illusion of choice and matter.

I can understand that I don't know how many times I have started a fight without even meaning too.

Modifié par Amondra, 27 mai 2011 - 07:45 .

[Ryzaki]

Amondra wrote...
I have to admit that Hawke get to play "blond moments" up is annoying,  I mean for crying out loud Anders robes got all dark and screamed " I going to do something stupid!" But no Hawke is going "Oh look he went shoping..."

So I can understand that.  I also see where peopel come from on the falling flat, you pick(best example to me) diplomatic Hawke and you spend the whole game going "can we play nice?" and not matter what it all goes down hill quick like in a hurry.

Doesn't help that Cullen joins in on this.  I mean...Anders could've run away after being arrested. Wouldn't be the first time. 

Ah diplomatic Hawke. That was a pretty flat playthrough personally. 

I was upset by this at first, and then thought "well thats how it would roll with me in real life."  But at the end of the day if they wanted this to happen a certain way, there really was no need for the shody excuse of an illusion of choice and matter.

I can understand that I don't know how many times I have started a fight without even meaning too.

 

Really. Could've been told in a book from Anders' POV. Might've been more interesting to me that way too. 

The dangers of the internet. 

Personally though I strongly dislike only reactive characters. Even Minato has the point where he stands on his own and comes up with his own plan (stopping Nyx by becoming the Great Seal). Hawke...doesn't seem to have a moment like that. Hawke just follows the yellow brick road and never dares deviate. Even when deciding to side with the mages/templars Hawke is prompted to by Meredith. (And frankly this choice to me feels the most forced in the game.) 

Eh. Just personal preference. 

Though I guess BW had a point in sticking to that formula. The one time they don't the game gets lamblasted to hell. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 mai 2011 - 08:03 .

[Eudaemonium]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

So yes, I'm a crazy-ass new convert to your Andersian religion. But here's my question... does this plot somehow get lost or obscured when you're playing the full game? Because I haven't read any reviews that explain that this is the first RPG where the main story is told through the character development rather than a big bad.

So... yeah... /flails.

Like a few others have said, the fact you already know the basic plot of DA2 means it'll be painfully obvious when you play it. Which is probably odd, because you'll then fail to understand why 99% of all reviewers seem to have missed the story. I certainly was. The issue is really that DA2 is too subtle for a lot of people. Like you said, the story is told through the characters, and unless you actually care about any of them you'll probably miss it, or you'll just miss it because it wasn't what you were looking for. And it doesn't have a big bad - a lot of people seemed very confused about that. It just has a bunch of people trying to deal with the chaos of life and usually failing miserably, and this includes you. A lot of people really didn't like that. Ironically, it's probably my favourite part of the game.

I think a lot of people missed the plot in DA2 because they were concentrating on it being elsewhere. They spent the whole game looking for a big bad to tie it together when that really wasn't the point of it at all, and were disappointed when the 'one who showed up' seemed woefully inadequate, because the point wasn't to be a big bad. Metagaming also kinda ruins it, because of the pre-determined ending. People seem to think their choices don't matter - by which they mean have wholly unrealistic powers to decide the fate of nations, ala Orzammar and Ferelden.

[Tyrium]

highcastle wrote...

Yeah, I figured as much. But there's so much Anders-can't-be-bi-in-my-game-that's-icky outside this thread, I think my hackles snap up automatically. Some part of my brain goes, them's fighting words and then I start typing out manifestos on sexuality and...I'll stop now.

Hmm...playing cards, playing cards. I think my Hawke would be a Joker, personally. A wrench in everybody's carefully laid plans and always trying to liven things up. Anders...Anders is a whole hand. Aces and eights, baby.

Fair enough. Anders is straight in my canon play, but not because "bi is icky" or any other such nonsense. In fact, Fenders and Nanders are two of my favourite fanfic pairings (they are some VERY attractive men). It's just that I saw him as straight in Awakening, and I can play DA2 as a female where nothing contradicts that, and it allows me consistency. If you interpret him as bisexual, in DA2 or Awakening, that's your perogative. Again, nothing contradicts that. I think it is a matter of interpretation, but both are valid, and neither is contradicted by the text. 

Part of me wishes we did have the Karl conversation as a fem!hawke, because it is an interesting one, and I'd still have romanced him, of course. But another part of me is also glad we don't, because I do like the interpretation being possible. To me, information that cannot be learned by a character, regardless of dialogue and plot choices, is not canon in that character's run, which is why I don't count Karl having  been Anders' first as canon for a female Hawke. If you do, that's fine by me. Again, nothing to contradict it. But playing as a female Hawke, there is nothing to contradict him being straight in that run either.


EDIT:

I do understand most people on here think he's always bi (or pansexual), so please understand I'm not attacking that position. I can certainly see the evidence for it, and I fully support that interpretation as being a valid one. It's just not the interpretation I have for my canon Hawke. It doesn't stop me enjoying fanfic where Anders is with a female Hawke and is bi, and it certainly doesn't stop me enjoying Anders slash, it's just not the interpretation in my canon run.

Modifié par Tyrium, 27 mai 2011 - 08:44 .

[Tyrium]

Lady Dino wrote...

 You know, the biggest difference I see between the over all choices you make in DA:O vs DA2 is that the consequences in DA:O effect Ferelden and are made on a far grander scale, where as in DA2 those consequences are more personal and effect Hawke as apposed to a whole country.

This is, I think, where most people find a problem, and they are most often the ones who can thoughtlessly kill Anders for being a terrorist completely forgetting that (I'm not saying that killing him thoughtlessly is a bad thing or that he doesn't deserve it but...) Anders has been Hawke's friend/lover/dedicated healer/companion for the last 7 years. It's not a bad thing to want a grand tale and to want to effect the in-game world but for DA2 that just wasn't in the cards.

I think it was great direction for this particular game because there are somethings in Thedas that are going to happen whether we, the player, like it or not. 

Er, sorry for the thread derailment and posible lack of sense being made, back to your regularly schedualed Andersbutt

/relurks

Exactly! I loved the fact that some things were inevitable, and the political intrigue was brilliant. It's not Origins, but I actually like DA2 better. It is a more personal story, and Hawke is definietly my favourite video game protagonist ever.  It's clever, and intriguing, and fantastic. I liked having a realistic impact on the world too. You guys are right, the story was told through the characters, which was brilliant. And DA2 Anders was wonderful. I liked Awakening Anders, but DA2 Anders turned me into a rabid fangirl the likes of which I have only been over Valen Shadowbreath and Garrus Vakarian. Alistair was awesome, and the only one I would actually marry, but my fangirlism is reserved for those three. I also don't understand the "Anders is ruined" crap - he was always passionate about templars, he's just more focused in DA2. It makes perfect character sense!

You know, I was thinking the other day, it is only in a Bioware game that I could come to the conclusion that blowing up the Chantry wasn't just morally justifiable, it was probably the best thing to do. Damn you for making me think and examine my beliefs, Bioware! Honestly, they've ruined every other company for me, I just don't enjoy non Bioware games anymore!

Modifié par Tyrium, 27 mai 2011 - 08:35 .

[Amondra]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Awwwwwww... I loved (my) Hawke's (friendmanced) reaction to the change in Anders in Act 3. After doing 'Justice' I knew he was going to blow something up - but I assumed it was going to be himself - especially when he tries to give his stuff away. I was *soooooooo* upset that he'd stopped talking to me apart from to say "Your support has meant the world to me". I was panicky irl that I'd missed triggering another companion quest for him by the time Last Straw kicked in because I had literally no idea what was going on and I was worried he was going to top himself.
So I was pretty relieved in all honesty.

And as diplo/romancing Hawke you do miss a lot of the hints - I was suprised when I did some science runthroughs just how much info you get if you don't romance him.

That was my canon playthrough. Ahh Thera how could you miss the neon Vegas sign over his head?

Thera: I was looking at the crazy **** with the sword, starring Anders down.

Me: Ohh...good point.

[elenilote]

Ashy made a video for me of Danny & Anders <3


Daniel Hawke & Anders

[Ryzaki]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Awwwwwww... I loved (my) Hawke's (friendmanced) reaction to the change in Anders in Act 3. After doing 'Justice' I knew he was going to blow something up - but I assumed it was going to be himself - especially when he tries to give his stuff away. I was *soooooooo* upset that he'd stopped talking to me apart from to say "Your support has meant the world to me". I was panicky irl that I'd missed triggering another companion quest for him by the time Last Straw kicked in because I had literally no idea what was going on and I was worried he was going to top himself.
So I was pretty relieved in all honesty.

And as diplo/romancing Hawke you do miss a lot of the hints - I was suprised when I did some science runthroughs just how much info you get if you don't romance him.

 

I nearly cried at the juicy rivalry intereaction I missed on a romance.  Bleh. 

[Tyrium]

I knew what was going to happen with the chantry stupid accidently spoiling myself! But yeah, I imagine if I hadn't, I'd have been terrified he was going suicide bomb or something. Nasty.

You know what I don't like? - if you romance him, it often cuts off the lines about just how crappy the circle was. I always play every conversation with Anders every way, then finish and save on the romance ones to get around it. Of couse, this has nothing to do with the audio erotica of Adam Howden's voice, no, not at all.

I just can't rivalmance him, it breaks my heart! It'll be even worse when they fix the ending

Modifié par Tyrium, 27 mai 2011 - 08:41 .