57020 réponses à ce sujet

[ipgd]

Arquen wrote...

I see, so I wonder if they add some dialogue or something to where it makes more sense for him to side with the Templars. I still don't see him doing it, at least it just doesn't seem to fit his character at all.

He's a vastly different person on the rival path.

[Amondra]

Camilladilla wrote...

Batteries wrote...

On rival path he essentially becomes Ketojan.
He doesn't trust himself to make choices anymore so he hands his leash over to Hawke.

Now on friendship path is where I'll be stumped if he sides with templars then.

I think I'd start making my own poop bomb if that were possible.

"Remember children the Grand Cleric wasn't killed by Magic...a mage or sorts yes, but not magic.  It was poo that killed her. and that why we eat our greens."

I need to put the rum down now...this is getting out of hand, First a daydream about a DA 2 parody of Alice in Wonderland and now that....I won't go into the smut I wrote while drunk...

[SurelyForth]

esper wrote...

I tried siding with templars with new patch as well with a max friendship romance and Anders refused to help- and I quickly reloaded and sided with the mages.

Then they might have cut that. A dev mentioned it was supposed to happen when looking into the templar ending, so it may have been something they took out on purpose.

[Amondra]

SurelyForth wrote...

esper wrote...

I tried siding with templars with new patch as well with a max friendship romance and Anders refused to help- and I quickly reloaded and sided with the mages.

Then they might have cut that. A dev mentioned it was supposed to happen when looking into the templar ending, so it may have been something they took out on purpose.

It doesn't trigger, unless you have the patch and it isn't live for everyone yet.

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

I tried siding with templars with new patch as well with a max friendship romance and Anders refused to help- and I quickly reloaded and sided with the mages.

 

Friendship Anders is impossible to get to side with the templars. That's intended behavior. Only rivalry Anders can side with the templars. 

[mellifera]

SurelyForth wrote...

esper wrote...

I tried siding with templars with new patch as well with a max friendship romance and Anders refused to help- and I quickly reloaded and sided with the mages.

Then they might have cut that. A dev mentioned it was supposed to happen when looking into the templar ending, so it may have been something they took out on purpose.

I think the guy who first mentioned it just made a mistake, honestly. I haven't seen it mentioned since.

Modifié par yukidama, 30 mai 2011 - 10:55 .

[Arquen]

I rivaled him one time, but I sided with the mages so didn't get a chance to explore the option of having him side with Templars. I agree he is a vastly different person. Blackouts, craziness, cheese sliding off his ****** and all that.

I just don't know.. will have to see it to believe it I guess.

I loved that whole Justice takes over bit on the rivalry path. I mean, maybe love isn't the right word, but I felt incredibly more sorry for Anders in that moment than I had ever felt before seeing that scene. I was like... now. I. See. I'm soo sorrry

I still miss Anders from awakenings, but I do have a lot of love for Anders in general.

[Miri1984]

If Anders sided with the Templars on the friendship path my brain would explode. I can *barely* accept it on the rival path. *BARELY* thanks to months of exposure and intelligent debate.

[highcastle]

Amondra wrote...

"Remember children the Grand Cleric wasn't killed by Magic...a mage or sorts yes, but not magic.  It was poo that killed her. and that why we eat our greens."

I need to put the rum down now...this is getting out of hand, First a daydream about a DA 2 parody of Alice in Wonderland and now that....I won't go into the smut I wrote while drunk...

Oh, but drunk smut can be unintentionally hilarious. Drunk anything can be pretty good, actually. I have some old files on my computer that I wrote while drunk, then looked at during the light of day and went, "Huh?" Then again, I also wrote portions of ADRL while drunk. Though I'm not telling which parts.

[Ryzaki]

Arquen wrote...

I rivaled him one time, but I sided with the mages so didn't get a chance to explore the option of having him side with Templars. I agree he is a vastly different person. Blackouts, craziness, cheese sliding off his ****** and all that.

I just don't know.. will have to see it to believe it I guess.

I loved that whole Justice takes over bit on the rivalry path. I mean, maybe love isn't the right word, but I felt incredibly more sorry for Anders in that moment than I had ever felt before seeing that scene. I was like... now. I. See. I'm soo sorrry

I still miss Anders from awakenings, but I do have a lot of love for Anders in general.

I guess I'm alone in thinking he's crazy regardless then. 

And yes I love Justice's assuming direct control. I kept expecting a Harbinger joke. Alas.  Really I couldn't have gotten one "I am limitless you are bacteria." comment? Bah. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 mai 2011 - 11:52 .

[ashyraine]

highcastle wrote...

Amondra wrote...

"Remember children the Grand Cleric wasn't killed by Magic...a mage or sorts yes, but not magic.  It was poo that killed her. and that why we eat our greens."

I need to put the rum down now...this is getting out of hand, First a daydream about a DA 2 parody of Alice in Wonderland and now that....I won't go into the smut I wrote while drunk...

Oh, but drunk smut can be unintentionally hilarious. Drunk anything can be pretty good, actually. I have some old files on my computer that I wrote while drunk, then looked at during the light of day and went, "Huh?" Then again, I also wrote portions of ADRL while drunk. Though I'm not telling which parts.

I'm betting the best parts   And now I'm hooked on TWSS too. At this rate I'll never finish the novel I'm supposed to be reading lol

[highcastle]

Ryzaki wrote...

I guess I'm alone in thinking he's crazy regardless then. 

I think how crazy you view him as tends to rely on whether you support the mages or the templars. I'm far more sympathetic towards the mages, and I see what Anders did as an act of desperation and despair. I don't think he was crazy so much as troubled and abused, and he lashed out at those he saw responsible. Does that make it better? Well, a bunch of people died regardless, so you're mileage may vary.

Now, if you support the templars, it's probably easier to see Anders as a crazed, foaming-at-the-mouth zealot, too single-minded for his own good. Why? Because if his goal is crazy and irresponsible, than it's easier to view his methods being much the same. 

Plus, on the friendship path, I think Anders is generally a bit more put together. He's not blacking out and he's more focused. But that's just like my opinion, Dude.

[Ryzaki]

highcastle wrote...
I think how crazy you view him as tends to rely on whether you support the mages or the templars. I'm far more sympathetic towards the mages, and I see what Anders did as an act of desperation and despair. I don't think he was crazy so much as troubled and abused, and he lashed out at those he saw responsible. Does that make it better? Well, a bunch of people died regardless, so you're mileage may vary.

Now, if you support the templars, it's probably easier to see Anders as a crazed, foaming-at-the-mouth zealot, too single-minded for his own good. Why? Because if his goal is crazy and irresponsible, than it's easier to view his methods being much the same. 

Plus, on the friendship path, I think Anders is generally a bit more put together. He's not blacking out and he's more focused. But that's just like my opinion, Dude.

It's not even that. Even when I support the mages I found him crazy. He leaves the mages with no foundation for their revolution and somehow expects it to "just work." that to me isn't sane.  He knows Meredith will call the rite yet somehow doesn't expect the templars to slaughter all the mages. I just...he's either an idiot or insane to me at that point. 

But as you said...opinions. 

Offtopic: I just got some Chantry Historian achievement. I don't know why. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 31 mai 2011 - 12:07 .

[Miri1984]

@Ryzaki That's by no means "insane", just misguided and a little stupid.

People can be misguided and a little stupid without being crazy. I know TONS of them.

[SurelyForth]

Ryzaki wrote...

It's not even that. Even when I support the mages I found him crazy. He leaves the mages with no foundation for their revolution and somehow expects it to "just work." that to me isn't sane.  He knows Meredith will call the rite yet somehow doesn't expect the templars to slaughter all the mages. I just...he's either an idiot or insane to me at that point. 

But as you said...opinions. 

When does he express surprise that the templars are slaughtering all the mages? 

And one of the points of the entire game is that there is no foundation that can be made for the mages. The solitary and impenatrable nature of the Circles across Thedas, and the presence of the Chantry and proliferation of the Chant, means that he can't. Pretty much the only way the mages were going to ever rise up were to a) be forced to see how easily the templars can be turned against them (which is what I assume happens when Hawke sides with the templars) or  see that they can take on the templars and win (which is what I assume happens when Hawke sides with the mages). 

Also, he doesn't expect it to just work. He knows it might not work at all, but he feels that something must be done now because things are just going to get worse (ie. a quick death now or a slow death later). It's incredibly risky, but it's also...true. Especially in Kirkwall, with the Divine bearing down on the situation. 

[Ryzaki]

"I didn't expect it would be so bad." is what I meant by surprise.
But that's all just my opinion and debating that just leads in circles. I just don't see it the same way. 

And I was trying to avoid debates. Urgh. :/ 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 31 mai 2011 - 12:22 .

[Miri1984]

@Ryzaki Even then it's not insanity. Just... surprise. So.

[highcastle]

Ryzaki wrote...


It's not even that. Even when I support the mages I found him crazy. He leaves the mages with no foundation for their revolution and somehow expects it to "just work." that to me isn't sane.  He knows Meredith will call the rite yet somehow doesn't expect the templars to slaughter all the mages. I just...he's either an idiot or insane to me at that point. 

But as you said...opinions. 

Offtopic: I just got some Chantry Historian achievement. I don't know why. 

Funny, I didn't get that impression. I don' t think he expected things to "just work." I think he expected to die so his name and what he did could be a rallying cry in the war to come. It seemed to me he knew he was starting a war, not doing one big thing that would end it.

And Meredith already called for the Right. Ser Karras tells us this in the Gallows if we talk to him. It's my personal belief (which was pointed out to me by someone on this thread), that Anders heard about this and that's part of what spurred him to act when he did. He knows the mages are in peril and he can't afford to wait any longer on the off chance the Divine grants the Right.

I see him as neither an idiot nor crazy. He's an idealist. He's a revolutionary. But he's not stupid (he predicted exactly how Orisino and Meredith would respond and his actions had precisely the effect he wanted). Crazy is a matter of opinion, but I don't read him as such, not on the friendship path anyway.

ETA: And there's a difference between expecting no carnage and expecting things to be a little tamer than they were. I don't think Anders thought the templars would start slaughtering mages in the streets. That doesn't mean he thought it would go down without any violence at all. And there's always a difference between imagining something and seeing it first hand.

Modifié par highcastle, 31 mai 2011 - 12:25 .

[Ryzaki]

Miri1984 wrote...

@Ryzaki Even then it's not insanity. Just... surprise. So.

 

Again I don't see it that way. 

/shrugs 

It's not that one comment on its own. It's a combination of pretty much everything with him. 

@highcastle: I disagree. Starting a revolution without a foundation to me isn't smart. 

I need to stop getting into these debates. 

Can we move on to something else? Like Andersbutt or something? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 31 mai 2011 - 12:25 .

[SurelyForth]

Ryzaki wrote...

"I didn't expect it would be so bad." is what I meant by surprise.
But that's all just my opinion and debating that just leads in circles. I just don't see it the same way. 

And I was trying to avoid debates. Urgh. :/ 

I think he was commenting on the general state of Kirkwall. He knew that Meredith would call for the Right, but I don't think he was expecting for the city to actually fall to looters and demons* and whatnot. When he says that, he's not actually seen any templars and mages fighting.

*And I'm pretty certain that some of those demons were just there, perhaps a manifestation of the whole Kirkwall is on the Hellmouth thing.

[Miri1984]

Ryzaki wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

@Ryzaki Even then it's not insanity. Just... surprise. So.

 

Again I don't see it that way. 

/shrugs 

It's not that one comment on its own. It's a combination of pretty much everything with him. 

@highcastle: I disagree. Starting a revolution without a foundation to me isn't smart. 

I need to stop getting into these debates. 

Can we move on to something else? Like Andersbutt or something? 

There is a foundation. It's pretty darn obvious that the rest of the circles aren't happy go lucky places where everyone is accepting what's going on. There's a mage underground (in tatters because of Meredith in Kirkwall, but not necessarily elsewhere). Uldred's rebellion shows that even in Ferelden where the circle was relatively ok people still wanted out. The Libertarians put forward a motion at the mage gathering in Cumberland to break with the Chantry....

The whole of DA:O and Awakenings was setting up the basis for the mage revolution, basically.

[highcastle]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

"I didn't expect it would be so bad." is what I meant by surprise.
But that's all just my opinion and debating that just leads in circles. I just don't see it the same way. 

And I was trying to avoid debates. Urgh. :/ 

I think he was commenting on the general state of Kirkwall. He knew that Meredith would call for the Right, but I don't think he was expecting for the city to actually fall to looters and demons* and whatnot. When he says that, he's not actually seen any templars and mages fighting.

*And I'm pretty certain that some of those demons were just there, perhaps a manifestation of the whole Kirkwall is on the Hellmouth thing.

That's a good point. Truthfully, I usually send him away at this point because I love the reunion scene at the Gallows and because I see my Hawkes having that initial reaction only to immediately regret it and...alright, getting off topic. My point was, I think it makes sense that he's talking about the looters, demons, and general fire-in-the-street stuff. He could have thought the fighting would be contained between the templars and the mages, that it wouldn't have torn the entire city apart. That might be naive, but still not crazy.

As for no foundation...again, not on the friendship path. On the friendship path, I interpret it as Anders is grooming Hawke to be the leader of the revolution. He's counting on Hawke to fight the good fight after his death, as Hawke's proved an ally to the mages in the past. He might be misguided and guilty of oversimplifying things, but I still don't see him as crazy.

ETA: @Ryzaki, I know you're not looking for a debate, so sorry for stringing this along. I just think it's an interesting discussion (and probably always will)

Modifié par highcastle, 31 mai 2011 - 12:35 .

[leggywillow]

highcastle wrote...
That's a good point. Truthfully, I usually send him away at this point because I love the reunion scene at the Gallows and because I see my Hawkes having that initial reaction only to immediately regret it and...alright, getting off topic. My point was, I think it makes sense that he's talking about the looters, demons, and general fire-in-the-street stuff. He could have thought the fighting would be contained between the templars and the mages, that it wouldn't have torn the entire city apart. That might be naive, but still not crazy.

Does that end the romance, though?  I thought I read somewhere that sending him away will break the romance even if he comes back.

[highcastle]

leggywillow wrote...

highcastle wrote...
That's a good point. Truthfully, I usually send him away at this point because I love the reunion scene at the Gallows and because I see my Hawkes having that initial reaction only to immediately regret it and...alright, getting off topic. My point was, I think it makes sense that he's talking about the looters, demons, and general fire-in-the-street stuff. He could have thought the fighting would be contained between the templars and the mages, that it wouldn't have torn the entire city apart. That might be naive, but still not crazy.

Does that end the romance, though?  I thought I read somewhere that sending him away will break the romance even if he comes back.

Nope. I sent him away, still got the achievement, and still got Varric mentioning us staff-twirling* into the horizon together post-game. So as far as I know, romance accomplished.




* This part may be slight embellishment, but you just know that's how sassy gay Hawke would make his dramatic exit.

[Ryzaki]

@highcastle: no problem. Hope you don't mind me backing out of the discussion. 

@Miri1984: I see your point. 

@SurelyForth: Again what did he expect? And he *did* see mages/templars fighting. That's the first battle that happens. Then of course is the templars going after that girl who turns into an abomination. Then the templars/mages squaring off in lowtown after the first skirmish. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 31 mai 2011 - 12:52 .