57020 réponses à ce sujet

[signcherie]

DeaHamlet wrote...

I sometimes feel like this obsession with Anders all boils down to me wanting to save him, protect him... ail his sorrows.

And he has the best line, lover or friend... if they tried to hurt you, I'd drown us in blood... o.O

I think, I think... part of the reason he wants to die is because he also thinks he broke Hawke's heart by doing this thing, this big gesture that was basically why he came to be, to free the mages... and yet he's broken Hawke's heart, he's ready to die for his action but also even more willing because he does not expect Hawke's forgiveness.

If you side with him and take him with you, he seems a lot less broken up and martyr-like... Hawke does make a huge difference to him.

In the end... he did say, hurting Hawke would kill him. Not empty words.

I think that was beautifully stated. Now I need to go give Anders a hug.

I think there's also an element of -- he doesn't really know how far he's fallen, he doesn't completely trust his own judgment, and even though he believes with all his heart that he's done the right thing, he's afraid he really might be a monster now,  -- and if Hawke can forgive him for it, then maybe he's not as bad as he feared.

[mellifera]

PerpetualCheck wrote...

Thanks everyone for the replies. I totally crashed the Fanders thread, and everyone was very kind to me. I love the DA2 forums.

I just couldn't fall in love with a tragedy. Someone said that Fenris's romance is self-contained. Well, all the romances I have ever had, in their best moments, seemed self-contained. We felt like we were the only real people in the world. It's part of the immaturity of love. Fenris can apparently give you that feeling. Anders didn't have that throw-caution-to-the-winds quality. He did in Awakening, but he was just too serious in DA2.

Well, that's why it's fiction. What I like and think works in a fictional setting isn't necessarily something I would like in the real world. I happened to like seeing Anders' deterioration and how it affected his relationship with Hawke. Well, like isn't the right word as much as it actually hurt and made me feel in a way that made me engaged with the story.

When I said self-contained I didn't mean it in a romantic sense. I meant that Fenris' issues are Fenris' issues and they don't really link up to the rest of the story in a way that felt meaningful to me aside from happening to fall on one side of the conflict fairly heavily. But aside from hating mages Fenris just seemed to keep to himself, his only cause seemed to be his own (and eventually Hawke's if he's sufficiently convinced or you side with the side he's on).

What I meant is that Fenris' romance is nice, but it didn't impact me emotionally aside from "that's cute". I wasn't left thinking about them. What are they going to do next? Where will they go? What will happen to them? None of those questions plagued me with Fenris and Hawke, whereas I was thinking about Anders and Hawke for a good while (and haven't stopped, lol).

Ultimately, Fenris and Anders offer different things. I appreciate both but there's no question what kind of story I prefer. I'm a sucker for punishment and stories that keep me thinking way after I've finished reading/playing/watching.

Modifié par yukidama, 22 mars 2011 - 05:32 .

[sassperella]

Sjofn wrote...

I won't lie, I am as upset about the Justice/Anders situation because of what it did to Justice as I am sad for Anders. I really, really, really liked Justice in Awakenings.

Personally I don't think Justice is an innocent in all this. Look at the banter in awakenings - he covets Kristoff's life and love, he begins to like being on the mortal plane, he is easily talked into the possibility of possessing a living human being by Nate. The final joining is a very demon-like pact. "I'll give you my power if you let me in"

I think being trapped in Kristoff's body and being trapped in the mortal world started Justice's corruption long before he possessed Anders. When they joined they corrupted each other further.

[Kim Shepard]

I just found an adorable line where Hawke says Anders is cute when he acts like a hotheaded revolutionary.

DeaHamlet wrote...

I think, I think... part of the reason he wants to die is because he also thinks he broke Hawke's heart by doing this thing, this big gesture that was basically why he came to be, to free the mages... and yet he's broken Hawke's heart, he's ready to die for his action but also even more willing because he does not expect Hawke's forgiveness.

And the sad thing is, my Kaya Hawke was never even mad at him. She totally supported him. Poor guy beat himself up over nothing. ): He really should have known... but I guess blowing up a Chantry is different than killing templars, even though she made it clear (to Justice, at least) that she would help him kill them all. Oh well, the plot demands it.

sassperella wrote...

Personally I don't think Justice is an innocent in all this. Look at the banter in awakenings - he covets Kristoff's life and love, he begins to like being on the mortal plane, he is easily talked into the possibility of possessing a living human being by Nate.

Do you remember the quotes, when he talks about it with the Warden? I've been trying to remember them, but I couldn't find them on the Wiki. It's been too long since I've played Awakening.

[leggywillow]

yukidama wrote...
When I said self-contained I didn't mean it in a romantic sense. I meant that Fenris' issues are Fenris' issues and they don't really link up to the rest of the story in a way that felt meaningful to me aside from happening to fall on one side of the conflict fairly heavily. But aside from hating mages Fenris just seemed to keep to himself, his only cause seemed to be his own (and eventually Hawke's if he's sufficiently convinced or you side with the side he's on).

What I meant is that Fenris' romance is nice, but it didn't impact me emotionally aside from "that's cute". I wasn't left thinking about them. What are they going to do next? Where will they go? What will happen to them? None of those questions plagued me with Fenris and Hawke, whereas I was thinking about Anders and Hawke for a good while (and haven't stopped, lol).

Ultimately, Fenris and Anders offer different things. I appreciate both but there's no question what kind of story I prefer. I'm a sucker for punishment and stories that keep me thinking way after I've finished reading/playing/watching.

QFT!  I agree with all of this so much.  I think it's the same reason why I preferred Alistair's romance to Zevran's in Origins as well.

[Threeparts]

lamppostinwinter wrote...

Love is confusing enough, Anders takes that to a whole new level. Poor Hawke.

I like it, because it's giving the player and their Hawke ample warning that, hey, this guy is unstable, prone to wild mood-swings, and isn't going to be the sanest choice for a love interest. It's hard to see our perky Awakening fellow falling apart like that, but I think it's necessary to show that he's not the same man he was a year ago and that we can forget the romanticised kittens and rainbows ideal we may have built up around that.
I'm glad that the Alrik quest takes place before we get into a full-blown romance with him, as it gives the player one last warning to walk away before they get involved with this man.

[sassperella]

Kim Shepard wrote...

sassperella wrote...

Personally I don't think Justice is an innocent in all this. Look at the banter in awakenings - he covets Kristoff's life and love, he begins to like being on the mortal plane, he is easily talked into the possibility of possessing a living human being by Nate.

Do you remember the quotes, when he talks about it with the Warden? I've been trying to remember them, but I couldn't find them on the Wiki. It's been too long since I've played Awakening.

No I don't remember the exact lines.

this is all I could find on youtube. He states that jealousy is what demons feel, but he also states that he feels it too.



sorry not sure how to post links.



 

[signcherie]

Kim Shepard wrote...


And the sad thing is, my Kaya Hawke was never even mad at him. She totally supported him. Poor guy beat himself up over nothing. ): He really should have known... but I guess blowing up a Chantry is different than killing templars, even though she made it clear (to Justice, at least) that she would help him kill them all. Oh well, the plot demands it.

Your Kaya Hawke sounds a lot like my Autumn Hawke. She was waiting the whole game for the chance to bring the fight to the Chantry.

[leggywillow]

"Sweetheart, I'm not letting anyone lock me up.  You included."

I love that line.

[snarkycleric]

I think being trapped in Kristoff's body and being trapped in the mortal world started Justice's corruption long before he possessed Anders. When they joined they corrupted each other further.

Yeah, he was already responding very strongly just to echoes of Kristoff's memories. Using a living, breathing human being as a host - even a relatively calm one - might not have been the best idea. Wynne's calm - and technically dead, since her spirit resurrected her - so she seems to be pretty okay as a host, but Anders is an emotional hothouse. He might not have had mood swings prior to becoming Justice's host, but he was definitely opinionated and had a lot of emotional investment in his opinions, so in retrospect I'm not surprised the corruption happened.

I think there's also an element of -- he doesn't really know how far he's fallen, he doesn't completely trust his own judgment, and even though he believes with all his heart that he's done the right thing, he's afraid he really might be a monster now, -- and if Hawke can forgive him for it, then maybe he's not as bad as he feared.

I agree with this. I do believe he betrayed some of his own principles - not Justice's principles, but Anders', and once he did that, he wasn't sure about himself any more.

[Kim Shepard]

sassperella wrote...

No I don't remember the exact lines.

this is all I could find on youtube. He states that jealousy is what demons feel, but he also states that he feels it too.



sorry not sure how to post links.

Thanks, that was the line I was thinking about. So, Justice was already starting to envy love back then... maybe Hawke has a chance after all.

signcherie wrote...

Your Kaya Hawke sounds a lot like my Autumn Hawke. She was waiting the whole game for the chance to bring the fight to the Chantry.

Awesome! If only all of the Hawkes and Wardens who support the revolution could get together, they'd win for sure.

leggywillow wrote...

"Sweetheart, I'm not letting anyone lock me up.  You included."

I love that line.

I just heard that one today too. xD But I'm saving it for the rivalmance. She's a templar. Oh, the irony.

[leggywillow]

Anders is stupidly easy to friend-mance.  And he is apparently VERY amused by Whacko/Sarcastic Hawke.  I got 30 points in a single conversation!  From playing around with the dialogue options, I think that 10 of those points came from Hawke saying: "What's the worst that could happen?  You become an abomination and... start... nevermind.  Bad joke."

I'm glad her tactless nature is endearing to someone, at least. XD

[Kim Shepard]

Kaya chooses the sarcastic options sometimes too. When Anders was going on about all of the different horrible things templars were doing, she said Justice probably doesn't know which way to turn. xD It made me thing of him pacing back and forth in Anders' mind, wondering which group of templars he should kill first.

[Sable Rhapsody]

leggywillow wrote...

Anders is stupidly easy to friend-mance.  And he is apparently VERY amused by Whacko/Sarcastic Hawke.  I got 30 points in a single conversation!  From playing around with the dialogue options, I think that 10 of those points came from Hawke saying: "What's the worst that could happen?  You become an abomination and... start... nevermind.  Bad joke."

I'm glad her tactless nature is endearing to someone, at least. XD

Well, considering Anders' sense of humor in DA:A, I'm not surprised that he's amused by sarcastic/silly Hawke.  He used to be a lot like that himself.

I just finished replaying the game.  Dear GOD is the end depressing.  I tried killing Anders, just to see what it looked like.  And then I put my composure back together after gaping at the screen in horror and re-did it, sparing him.  Poor Anders.

[Threeparts]

I had to give up on my mage Hawke run, since the Isabela friendship bug is making it pretty much impossible to finish Act III. And so onto Leo, my complete ass of an archer Hawke. I'm going to try and make everyone my rival, kill every NPC I can, and sleep with as many companions as possible before breaking their hearts. I'm a little bit concerned about the Andersmance though, as, given both Leo and Anders' dashing good looks, I can see any kiss turning into a battle of the chins.

This run is going to be fun.

[signcherie]

Weren't people talking about some "Save Anders" t-shirts a while back? I think we need some of those.

[Sable Rhapsody]

signcherie wrote...

Weren't people talking about some "Save Anders" t-shirts a while back? I think we need some of those.

Agreed.

He's such a sad puppy.  He needs hugs.  And a good therapist.

[phantomdragoness]

Okay, okay, okay...I have to know...

Does anyone else giggle madly now when Varric says: "Let me guess, your precious Chantry has fallen to pieces"? I know I do, and I say: "That's my Anders!" XD

[snarkycleric]

@phantomdragoness

I do. XD

[signcherie]

phantomdragoness wrote...

Okay, okay, okay...I have to know...

Does anyone else giggle madly now when Varric says: "Let me guess, your precious Chantry has fallen to pieces"? I know I do, and I say: "That's my Anders!" XD

I didn't before but I will now

[Russalka]

Sheysira wrote...

Russalka wrote...

I need your input. Do you think this Prince of Persia: Two Thrones song would be an excellent Anders theme song, or well, about the romance?

The storyline sort of mirrors the Prince's, he manifests a darker side from his suppressed rage and despair, who starts influencing his deeds.

I Still Love You.

This beautiful gem is now my official Anders anthem. Thank you for sharing this!

The lyrics fit so heartbreakingly well to the later parts of the Anders romance.

I only realised after a while that all the lyrics suit his storyline. I wish more people were willing to discuss this semiosis.

[Kim Shepard]

phantomdragoness wrote...

Okay, okay, okay...I have to know...

Does anyone else giggle madly now when Varric says: "Let me guess, your precious Chantry has fallen to pieces"? I know I do, and I say: "That's my Anders!" XD

I didn't think about it before, but now... xD Varric is brilliant.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...

phantomdragoness wrote...

Okay, okay, okay...I have to know...

Does anyone else giggle madly now when Varric says: "Let me guess, your precious Chantry has fallen to pieces"? I know I do, and I say: "That's my Anders!" XD

I didn't think about it before, but now... xD Varric is brilliant.

ALL of the framed narrative stuff is both hilarious and kinda disturbing now that I've played the game and know what happens.  Just the hate in the way Cassandra says Anders' name...and Varric's response.  "Don't remind me, I introduced them."  Wow.