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[Ryzaki]

highcastle wrote...
It's been a while since I played DAO with a mage warden. Bryant was the templar at the Lothering chantry, IIRC. At this point, it's early in the game and mage!Warden would be unused to spending any time outside the Tower. It's possible they're just bad at hiding their mage-ness. 

Hawke doesn't have to say "Friends of mine are mages." If you/he think it's too big a risk, then play it safe. But some Hawke's are outspoken and perhaps over-confident. That's where character personalization comes into play.

As for Anders being a known apostate, the way I always figured it was that the templars knew of him, but didn't know what he looked like specifically.

 

But again. What mannerisms do mages have that are different from those outside the tower? 

No they know what he looks like. Cullen pretty much says as much. 

ipgd wrote...

Because the game doesn't have flags to account for exactly the getup you are wearing? They can "sense" the Warden is a mage regardless of what he is wearing for the same reason no one says anything if you walk up and start chatting with them while completely naked. There may also be different kinds of mannerisms that people who have lived in the Circle pick up.

It's not some magic mage sensing ability, though, because if that existed, the world as it is could not exist as it does. If all a templar had to do was get close to someone to sense that they are a mage, mages would not be able to hide.

It is just gameplay/story segregation, something that exists in every game. There are points where you just have to suspend your disbelief. With Varric, you at least have an in-world justification for said segregation, instead of having to handwave it and ignore it entirely.

 

What mannerisms would those be that are a red flag to any templar? 

So...it's impossible to stay  distant from a group of people when they have no reason to be near you? Okay then. 

True. I just dislike the "oh Varric said it so it doesn't have to be true." thing. *shrugs* 

[ipgd]

Ryzaki wrote...

What mannerisms would those be that are a red flag to any templar?

I don't know? It is a suggestion for an explanation for why these templars can intuit some mages, like you can probably tell the difference between someone who grew up on the streets and someone who grew up in middle-class suburbia.

If templars could detect mages by some objective measure, they would put themselves near everyone in their jurisdiction. It would also be mentioned somewhere in the codex or infodump dialogue (notably, Alistair certainly can't tell the difference between a mage and non-mage Warden despite having access to templar abilities), because that would radically impact how the world works. Are you suggesting that proper-DAO-templars-because-DA2-templars-are-dumb-and-bad-forever-rarararara templars would be too stupid to exercise that ability proactively?

Modifié par ipgd, 05 juin 2011 - 03:29 .

[Ryzaki]

ipgd wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What mannerisms would those be that are a red flag to any templar?

I don't know? It is a suggestion for an explanation for why these templars can intuit some mages, like you can probably tell the difference between someone who grew up on the streets and someone who grew up in middle-class suburbia.

If templars could detect mages by some objective measure, they would put themselves near everyone in their jurisdiction. It would also be mentioned somewhere in the codex or infodump dialogue, because that would radically impact how the world works. Are you suggesting that proper-DAO-templars-because-DA2-templars-are-dumb-and-bad-forever-rarararara templars would be too stupid to exercise that ability proactively?

 

Most likely. 

Could be seen as threatening however you're right. I'm guessing mages can't sense each other either then? 
And there's not *enough* templars to place them around every population center. Templars aren't that common. It would be seen as a waste to have templars in remote locations just for the chance that a mage would get close enough for them to sense. 
Actually I'm suggesting DA2 templars nor DAO templars would be close enough to the average apostate to sense them. Regardless. Nevermind. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 juin 2011 - 03:41 .

[legbamel]

ipgd wrote...
Because the game doesn't have flags to account for exactly the getup you are wearing? They can "sense" the Warden is a mage regardless of what he is wearing for the same reason no one says anything if you walk up and start chatting with them while completely naked. There may also be different kinds of mannerisms that people who have lived in the Circle pick up.

It's not some magic mage sensing ability, though, because if that existed, the world as it is could not exist as it does. If all a templar had to do was get close to someone to sense that they are a mage, mages would not be able to hide.

It is just gameplay/story segregation, something that exists in every game. There are points where you just have to suspend your disbelief. With Varric, you at least have an in-world justification for said segregation, instead of having to handwave it and ignore it entirely.

Generally sensing the ability to do magic would break the story, yes.  But a sensitivity to the acts themselves (explained, perhaps, by consuming lyrium), within a certain range, would not.  And the veil being so thin could very well interfere with even that limited ability in Kirkwall.  By the time the Templars know who Hawke and Anders are with any certainty they may well have already earned Cullen's protection in helping him with Wilmod and Keran.

As for Bethany blasting people with fireballs during the first fight in the Gallows courtyard, that would definitely have to be laid at Varric's embellishing feet.

[highcastle]

Ryzaki wrote...

But again. What mannerisms do mages have that are different from those outside the tower?

Have you seen Inglorious Basterds? One man gets outed as a Brit by the way he holds up his fingers. There are all sorts of verbal and non-verbal cues that can signal to someone observant, someone trained to look for them, where we come from or what we do. The game engine isn't sophisticated enough to get them across (just like we don't see horses, but they still exist).

No they know what he looks like. Cullen pretty much says as much. 

Do you know where he says this by any chance? Just curious. Because I always equated Anders to that Irish nationalist leader who was living openly above a pub in Dublin for years. He had spies in the government, and if anyone took his picture, they would destroy it. So they had a vague idea of what he looked like and where he was, but no one could confirm it was him for sure. I see Anders, with his connections in the Mage Underground, doing much the same thing: burning any sketches or drawings templars might make of him until no one was perfectly certain who he was.

[Ryzaki]

highcastle wrote...
Have you seen Inglorious Basterds? One man gets outed as a Brit by the way he holds up his fingers. There are all sorts of verbal and non-verbal cues that can signal to someone observant, someone trained to look for them, where we come from or what we do. The game engine isn't sophisticated enough to get them across (just like we don't see horses, but they still exist).  

True.  

...That really doesn't explain the blind guy though. Unless CM's have a different manner of speech. 

Do you know where he says this by any chance? Just curious. Because I always equated Anders to that Irish nationalist leader who was living openly above a pub in Dublin for years. He had spies in the government, and if anyone took his picture, they would destroy it. So they had a vague idea of what he looked like and where he was, but no one could confirm it was him for sure. I see Anders, with his connections in the Mage Underground, doing much the same thing: burning any sketches or drawings templars might make of him until no one was perfectly certain who he was.

 

When you warn Cullen about Anders neither of them actually say his name. Cullen simply says while looking dead at Anders "I know which known apostate you're talking about." (Granted this *is* in act 3.) In act 2 Anders brings up the templars snooping outside his clinic. 

It really isn't hard to put two and two together. (For the templars I mean). 

Not to mention Alrik was hunting down an apostate and you magically have the letter from his corpse.  That alone should've given them suspicions about who you were. They just don't bother investigating deeper for ra only knows what reason. (Really that letter should've ended up with Hawke arrested on suspected murder charges. Why they didn't do that...) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 juin 2011 - 04:00 .

[highcastle]

Ryzaki wrote...

highcastle wrote...
Do you know where he says this by any chance? Just curious. Because I always equated Anders to that Irish nationalist leader who was living openly above a pub in Dublin for years. He had spies in the government, and if anyone took his picture, they would destroy it. So they had a vague idea of what he looked like and where he was, but no one could confirm it was him for sure. I see Anders, with his connections in the Mage Underground, doing much the same thing: burning any sketches or drawings templars might make of him until no one was perfectly certain who he was.

 

When you warn Cullen about Anders neither of them actually say his nam. Cullen simply says while looking dead at Anders "I know which known apostate you're talking about." (Granted this *is* in act 3.) In act 2 Anders brings up the templars snooping outside his clinic. 

It really isn't hard to put two and two together. (For the templars I mean). 

Gotchya. I've never gotten this because I've never thought to warn Cullen about Anders (what with being a crazy mage-loving revolutionary and all). Plus, I'm pretty sure if you side with the mages throughout and have Anders at friendly, you don't even get that option. I never saw it, anyway.

As I don't have the full context, I can't really comment except to speculate that perhaps they know who Anders is now, but as he's protected by the Champion, they don't want to go after him. Of course with the Champion basically outing Anders...nope, I have no rationalization for this. One more reason why the rival path makes no sense to me.

*pokes Ryzaki with a stick* But you know I do it out of love. :innocent:

[SurelyForth]

Plus, it seems like Cullen and Anders would have HAD to have met before, in the Tower. If nothing else, Anders should have had enough infamy there that his face was plastered in the templar quarters, including a composite poster of his previous disguises, with a "NOT A TRANQUIL! NOT A TEMPLAR! NOT 'JUST HERE TO CHANGE THE OIL IN THE DINING HALL LAMPS!'" notice beneath.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 05 juin 2011 - 04:16 .

[Ryzaki]

highcastle wrote...
Gotchya. I've never gotten this because I've never thought to warn Cullen about Anders (what with being a crazy mage-loving revolutionary and all). Plus, I'm pretty sure if you side with the mages throughout and have Anders at friendly, you don't even get that option. I never saw it, anyway.

As I don't have the full context, I can't really comment except to speculate that perhaps they know who Anders is now, but as he's protected by the Champion, they don't want to go after him. Of course with the Champion basically outing Anders...nope, I have no rationalization for this. One more reason why the rival path makes no sense to me.

*pokes Ryzaki with a stick* But you know I do it out of love. :innocent:

 

Yeah you don't get it on the friendship path. 

...Exactly. Rival path makes plenty sense tome...that moment just...doesn't. That moment makes zero sense. Cullen should've *tried* to arrest Anders (or if he succeed Anders merely ran away) but as it is...just...no. 

Yeah my skin's grown tough enough to stand the poking.  

[highcastle]

SurelyForth wrote...

Plus, it seems like Cullen and Anders would have HAD to have met before, in the Tower. If nothing else, Anders should have had enough infamy there that his face was plastered in the templar quarters, including a composite poster of his previous disguises, with a "NOT A TRANQUIL! NOT A TEMPLAR! NOT 'JUST HERE TO CHANGE THE OIL IN THE DINING HALL LAMPS!'" notice beneath.
II). 

Lol! I want fan-art of that poster, please.

Actually, though, I always wondered if Anders wasn't serving his year in solitary when Cullen was first assigned to the Tower. And since there'd be minimal interaction with his guards (it not being solitary confinement unless it's, well, solitary) and since you generally don't send new recruits to guard the maximum security wing, I wondered how much their paths really crossed. Complete fanon, but it allows me to cart Anders into the Gallows without wondering why Cullen doesn't scream, "Seize that man! Have him bathed and brought to my chambers!"

[Ryzaki]

...Highcastle that strike out bit just made me run to TV tropes. I hope you're happy.

[ladyofpayne]

I hope in addon\\DLC devs finish Anders story.

[highcastle]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Highcastle that strike out bit just made me run to TV tropes. I hope you're happy.

I'm only happy if you now waste three hours of your life there.

[Ryzaki]

highcastle wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Highcastle that strike out bit just made me run to TV tropes. I hope you're happy.

I'm only happy if you now waste three hours of your life there.

 

...*is sucked in*

Have it your way then.  

*looks at the long arguement about Anders on the DA2 tropes page* 

Well there's something. 

[ladyofpayne]

If Sebastian(mr Brave Heart) grab Anders he will murdering him long time in the eyes of many people.

[Patchwork]

highcastle wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Highcastle that strike out bit just made me run to TV tropes. I hope you're happy.

I'm only happy if you now waste three hours of your life there.

I lost two hours to re-reading the Overlord's Handbook the other day there's no way I'm clicking that second link no matter how intriguied I am.

Thanks for the plausiable fanon as to why Cullen doesn't recognise Anders.

That some templars are sensitive to magical energy makes sense to me. Otto obviously was and there's that templar in Lothering who knew something was off with Morrigan. Templars are trained to dispell mana, it's a mental discipline which some could be better at than others.

[Sarielle]

Quick question to you Anders gals and guys. Did this last patch fix the rivalmance for him that I heard was bugged? I want to try it but don't want to bother yet unless it's fixed.

The patch notes suggest it might be, but just thought I'd spare myself the trouble if you guys already have some saves you could check out

[highcastle]

ElleMullineux wrote...

From the Sebastian/Lelianna quest I get the impression that they know who Anders is and he is being left alone so they can spy on him and the other Resolutionists - which works to the extent that they have a tip-off that there is going to be an attack.
It then makes sense to me that Bethany is taken to the circle after the expedition because they now know that Hawke is associating with someone they're watching and they want some leverage over them.

Okay, I can buy the spying-on-Anders things. Of course, that just goes to show you, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

And the Beth-as-leverage thing only works for non-mage!Hawkes. For mage!Hawkes...clearly the templars are just intimidated by his awesome.

[LT123]

@Sarielle It's fixed. You'll have to reload from before accepting the Justice quest from Anders for it to work.

[SurelyForth]

Sarielle wrote...

Quick question to you Anders gals and guys. Did this last patch fix the rivalmance for him that I heard was bugged? I want to try it but don't want to bother yet unless it's fixed.

The patch notes suggest it might be, but just thought I'd spare myself the trouble if you guys already have some saves you could check out

You can get him to side with the templars if you rival him, yes. 

AFAIK that's the only big change (he'll give you friendship dialogue at the Gallows if you've sided w. the mages).

[Heidenreich]

Sarielle wrote...

Quick question to you Anders gals and guys. Did this last patch fix the rivalmance for him that I heard was bugged? I want to try it but don't want to bother yet unless it's fixed.

The patch notes suggest it might be, but just thought I'd spare myself the trouble if you guys already have some saves you could check out

Its fixed.

Requirements:

Must have a save from pre-Justice quest.
Must pick correct dialog options for AFTER justice quest
must side with templars



I have no idea if you have to rival him or if it can be done on the friendship path. I'm still frantically trying to finish my mage origin and elf origin playthroughs so I can have Hawke/Amell awesomes, and Zevran bug-fixed cameo for my  CEwarden ;p

[legbamel]

highcastle wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
...Highcastle that strike out bit just made me run to TV tropes. I hope you're happy.

I'm only happy if you now waste three hours of your life there.

Hell, it contains the perfect explanation for the Templar problem.  Did the DA writers use this as a guide or what?

[Arquen]

Oh god, I just got utterly sucked into tv tropes. Curse you Anders thread!