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[Sialater]

Ryzaki wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Thisis where I get annoyed at the forced Vicount ending. That in itself should've been optional in my view. Everyone isn't gonna want to stay in Kirkwall after that(heck most of my Hawkes were itching for a chance to leave) the only way it makes sense to me is to headcanon it as everyone who knows what Anders' did is either dead or coerced (only for a time though. Which is why Hawke adruptly leaves Kirkwall when it starts coming out). 

Totally off topic: But OMG ME3. (No spoilers please). The wait...the wait is gonna kill me. 

I'd have trouble believing Sebastian would stay quiet about it for any length of time. He was probably already screaming about it at the top of his lungs on the way out of Kirkwall, preceding a full-blown propaganda campaign.

You don't have to recruit Sebastian. IN that scenario he's spending time gathering information and figuring out Anders did it to begin with. In the scenario that you did recruit him I could see him wasting time getting an army to mach on Kirkwall. By the time he's almost ready again. Hawke can simply flee. 

By the time he has enough evidence/resources to have anders arrested my Hawke will be long gone. 

Or, no one really believes him till he comes back with proof and then you're long gone.

By SweetCandyRain

Modifié par Sialater, 07 juin 2011 - 06:28 .

[Ryzaki]

Sialater wrote...


Or, no one really believes him till he comes back with proof and then you're long gone.

 

Yeah this is where Anders helping in the RoA will be in his favor. I could see the people going "...so he bombed the chantry and turned against the mages...why?" and will demand solid evidence. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juin 2011 - 06:30 .

[cmessaz]

Ryzaki wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Thisis where I get annoyed at the forced Vicount ending. That in itself should've been optional in my view. Everyone isn't gonna want to stay in Kirkwall after that(heck most of my Hawkes were itching for a chance to leave) the only way it makes sense to me is to headcanon it as everyone who knows what Anders' did is either dead or coerced (only for a time though. Which is why Hawke adruptly leaves Kirkwall when it starts coming out). 

Totally off topic: But OMG ME3. (No spoilers please). The wait...the wait is gonna kill me. 

I'd have trouble believing Sebastian would stay quiet about it for any length of time. He was probably already screaming about it at the top of his lungs on the way out of Kirkwall, preceding a full-blown propaganda campaign.

You don't have to recruit Sebastian. IN that scenario he's spending time gathering information and figuring out Anders did it to begin with. In the scenario that you did recruit him I could see him wasting time getting an army to march on Kirkwall. By the time he's almost ready again. Hawke can simply flee. (This of course results in Hawke beingVicount for a much lower amount of time then him not being recruited but Varric never says how long Hawke was Vicount before vanishing). 

By the time he has enough evidence/resources to have anders arrested my Hawke will be long gone. 

Lol, I think I need to go to you for all my rping needs 

Seriously I think I can actually rival/side with templars again now! I was too depressed that he'd die before. D:

[Jean]

I really don't think the average citizen will ask why he did that instead of demanding his execution

[Ryzaki]

Batteries wrote...

I really don't think the average citizen will ask why he did that instead of demanding his execution

 

Why not? At this point all the mages are dead and they're rebuilding. Why would they become bloodthirsty on the words of one man. Especially one man who is going against the Champion of Kirkwall? (who may have not even been there?) The rogue bloodmages in the city are all gone, Meredith's overbearing self is now gone, Elthina and the Chantry are gone as well but I see my Hawke immediately casting blame on the resolutionists that were in the city for that. (And using Varric's bull**** to helpit along.) The illusion wouldn't be perfect of course and there would be holes but who is really gonna look deeper other than perhaps Cullen (who would want to make sure he had all his ducks in a row first and that would give Hawkea headstart to run) or other templars (who would probably go *to* Cullen). AS Vicount I doubt any accusation against Hawke's allies (and by extension him/herself) would be castlightly. You're gonna need more than just words to cast blame on the Vicount. (becauseif Anders blew up the Chantry than Hawke had to know about it (what the people will end up thining) since they were lovers and Hawke was traveling with Anders for a long time.)  

I could forsee some hushed whispering (and the louder that whispering gets the faster my Hawke starts to pack) but at first? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juin 2011 - 06:41 .

[Sialater]

Ryzaki wrote...

Batteries wrote...

I really don't think the average citizen will ask why he did that instead of demanding his execution

 

Why not? At this point all the mages are dead and they're rebuilding. Why would they become bloodthirsty on the words of one man. Especially one man who is going against the Champion of Kirkwall? The rogue bloodmages in the city are all gone, Meredith's overbearing self is now gone, Elthina and the Chantry are gone as well but I see my Hawke immediately casting blame on the resolutionists that were in the city for that. 

I could forsee some hushed whispering (and the louder that whispering gets the faster my Hawke starts to pack) but at first? 

Ryz is correct, I think at this point the Champion would crap rainbows and kittens for the average Kirkwellian.

[Patchwork]

OMG that drawing is awesome and pretty much sums up what I think is likely to happen if Anders lives beyond the final fight. There's no way he isn't arrested and eventually killed. Templars, nobles, the guard and the general populace would all be baying for his blood.

EDA: Forget Vael there's no way Cullen and the remaining templars are going to keep what Anders did quiet.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 07 juin 2011 - 06:45 .

[Sialater]

Ser Bard wrote...

OMG that drawing is awesome and pretty much sums up what I think is likely to happen if Anders lives beyond the final fight. There's no way he isn't arrested and eventually killed. Templars, nobles, the guard and the general populace would all be baying for his blood.

Everyone other than Sebastian is dead or with Hawke.  No one will really know the truth.  From what Cassandra tells Varric, Hawke's the one gets blamed eventually anyway.  That pic was pre-DA2, showing his year in solitary.

[Amondra]

But that is assuming the locals and nobles know, half who know left or are dead right? So it would be the Templars speaking out at that point and they might be hesitant because of Meredeth.   Not to mention their Vi**** Killed a Harvester who used to be the First Encahter.  A who knows what Meredeth, killed an Arishock.  I honestly would be terrified to speak out againt him/her cleaerly they showed their bad ass skill is better then mine.

I think he just kills himself, knowing that the merge with him and Justice isn't going to be peaceful because now Justice is pissed beyond belief and will want to assume direct control, and will kill Anders off completely. I mean all we will see is glowing Anders.

Modifié par Amondra, 07 juin 2011 - 06:48 .

[cmessaz]

I don't know, I wonder now that Justice has "accomplished his goal" if Anders wouldn't be more likely to control it. I just like Ryz idea personally, because if Anders did commit suicide it's likely that I'd never do it again XD (rival/templar siding)

Modifié par cmessaz, 07 juin 2011 - 06:47 .

[Ryzaki]

Sialater wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...

OMG that drawing is awesome and pretty much sums up what I think is likely to happen if Anders lives beyond the final fight. There's no way he isn't arrested and eventually killed. Templars, nobles, the guard and the general populace would all be baying for his blood.

Everyone other than Sebastian is dead or with Hawke.  No one will really know the truth.  From what Cassandra tells Varric, Hawke's the one gets blamed eventually anyway.  That pic was pre-DA2, showing his year in solitary.

 

Which to me is more proof that Hawke ran away before the charges could be verified. And so as a result they believe Hawke was the mastermind in it and didn't want Anders to expose him/her.  

Of course that's why I love that it's open like it is. I can headcanon it my way and others can believe he killed himself/was executed afterwards. We both win.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juin 2011 - 06:49 .

[Amondra]

cmessaz wrote...

I don't know, I wonder now that Justice has "accomplished his goal" if Anders wouldn't be more likely to control it. I just like Ryz idea personally, because if Anders did commit suicide it's likely that I'd never do it again XD (rival/templar siding)

But he didn't complete his goal.  He started it then went against it, by siding with the Templars...how is the doing what he and Justice set out for? They wanted to free them not kill them for something they did. Justice is angry that Anders just sided with the enemy.  He isn't going to calm down.

[cmessaz]

He started the war that he felt was needed, is what I mean. Just looking for a happier ending for rival. It doesn't necessarily have to be perfect.

Modifié par cmessaz, 07 juin 2011 - 06:54 .

[Patchwork]

Amondra wrote...

But that is assuming the locals and nobles know, half who know left or are dead right? So it would be the Templars speaking out at that point and they might be hesitant because of Meredeth.

The templars failed their duties spectacularly and their only scapegoat is Meredeith. A lyrium addled Knight-Commander who pushed the mages to breaking point and caused them to rebel. Then she turned on her own men and tried to kill not only them but also the Champion of Kirkwall.

No matter what came later when the other circles rebelled intially, in an attempt to calm Kirkwall down, it's only logical the templars would tell everyone of the apostate mage who destroyed the Chantra and a lyrium poisoned KC calling for the circle's Annulment and the Champion who has a connection to both events.

Hawke found the idol which poisoned Meredeth's mind. Hawke (in most playthroughs) helped Anders gather the ingredients to make the bomb.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 07 juin 2011 - 07:01 .

[SurelyForth]

cmessaz wrote...

I don't know, I wonder now that Justice has "accomplished his goal" if Anders wouldn't be more likely to control it. I just like Ryz idea personally, because if Anders did commit suicide it's likely that I'd never do it again XD (rival/templar siding)

Except Vengeance doesn't really have an endpoint. It's like Isabela says- it's like a barfight where people keep getting pulled in whether they want to be or not. Even after mages are freed, if they are, there will be other injustices in the world. Who knows, Justice might be after Hawke for partaking in, and making Anders partake in, the slaughter of the mages in Kirkwall.

Meanwhile, Anders just doesn't know WTF anymore because he's been completely broken by Hawke and Justice. That alone, and considerations of Viscount aside, makes me wonder how the rivalmanced/side with templars ending is supposed to be anything but completely ****ed up.

[Amondra]

cmessaz wrote...

He started the war that he felt was needed, is what I mean. Just looking for a happier ending for rival. It doesn't necessarily have to be perfect.

Ahh I see, I just think Anders Rivary wasn't suposed to be happy.  I mean his romance friend or otherwise is still tragic, so I don't think he doesn't even get a luke-warm ending like he does going down the friendship path.

[Ryzaki]

Amondra wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I don't know, I wonder now that Justice has "accomplished his goal" if Anders wouldn't be more likely to control it. I just like Ryz idea personally, because if Anders did commit suicide it's likely that I'd never do it again XD (rival/templar siding)

But he didn't complete his goal.  He started it then went against it, by siding with the Templars...how is the doing what he and Justice set out for? They wanted to free them not kill them for something they did. Justice is angry that Anders just sided with the enemy.  He isn't going to calm down.

He probably won't. I personally HC it as Anders' own will getting stronger. As it weakens (and the whispering gets louder) he and Hawke leave and head for Tevinter to see if there's anyone there that can help. If Tevinter has no answers they'll probably go around the world to other mages outsidethe circles to see if they can help. This of course does involve Hawke watching Anders...like a hawke and maybe fighting Justice if he takes over Anders (probably just until Anders is unconcious/manages to grasp back control) dangerous but exciting. All fanwank on my part though. But I like to HC it this way. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juin 2011 - 07:00 .

[cmessaz]

Amondra wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

He started the war that he felt was needed, is what I mean. Just looking for a happier ending for rival. It doesn't necessarily have to be perfect.

Ahh I see, I just think Anders Rivary wasn't suposed to be happy.  I mean his romance friend or otherwise is still tragic, so I don't think he doesn't even get a luke-warm ending like he does going down the friendship path.

Neither are happy, really. But him dying at the end of rivalry...turns me off the rivalmance tbh, and that kinda sucks since I did enjoy it. It wouldn't be easy by any means, but I just would like a way to think he lives at least for a while. Again otherwise it's friendship or bust...which cuts down replay value...etc. Lol, I'm not one to typically argue that my vision is "right" but, I just like the option to rp it differently.

[Ryzaki]

cmessaz wrote...
Neither are happy, really. But him dying at the end of rivalry...turns me off the rivalmance tbh, and that kinda sucks since I did enjoy it. It wouldn't be easy by any means, but I just would like a way to think he lives at least for a while. Again otherwise it's friendship or bust...which cuts down replay value...etc. Lol, I'm not one to typically argue that my vision is "right" but, I just like the option to rp it differently.

 

The bolded pretty much. I'm not arguing that he 100% defintely wasn't dragged off and executed or that he didn't killhimself. 

I just think there's a slim chance something else happened that plays nicely into my HC is all. 

[Amondra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Amondra wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I don't know, I wonder now that Justice has "accomplished his goal" if Anders wouldn't be more likely to control it. I just like Ryz idea personally, because if Anders did commit suicide it's likely that I'd never do it again XD (rival/templar siding)

But he didn't complete his goal.  He started it then went against it, by siding with the Templars...how is the doing what he and Justice set out for? They wanted to free them not kill them for something they did. Justice is angry that Anders just sided with the enemy.  He isn't going to calm down.

He probably won't. I personally HC it as Anders' own will getting stronger. As it weakens (and the whispering gets louder) he and Hawke leave and head for Tevinter to see if there's anyone there that can help. If Tevinter has no answers they'll probably go around the world to other mages outsidethe circles to see if they can help. This of course does involve Hawke watching Anders...like a hawke and maybe fighting Justice if he takes over Anders (probably just until Anders is unconcious/manages to grasp back control) dangerous but exciting. All fanwank on my part though. But I like to HC it this way. 

There is nothing wrong with that.  But I beileve even you said, it is almost impossible to rival Anders without having to be pro-Templar.  It does suck because it really limits things down.  If the game even remotely seemed to me that rivaling him wasn't me beating with a "FU" stick I would want to do it.  But they made it seem "This is how it will go down!" almost that you enable or break him.  Pick  his drug, because you are the one giving it to him.  Help him and accept the new him, or fight with him and try to make him stay what he is/was.

But that is my view.

[Ryzaki]

Amondra wrote...
There is nothing wrong with that.  But I beileve even you said, it is almost impossible to rival Anders without having to be pro-Templar.  It does suck because it really limits things down.  If the game even remotely seemed to me that rivaling him wasn't me beating with a "FU" stick I would want to do it.  But they made it seem "This is how it will go down!" almost that you enable or break him.  Pick  his drug, because you are the one giving it to him.  Help him and accept the new him, or fight with him and try to make him stay what he is/was.

But that is my view.

 

There's nothing wrong with that either. It would be boring if we all agreed on each others views completely.  

Edit: I was hoping for some Dragon Age e3 stuff butah well. What's here certainly isn't anything to sneeze out. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juin 2011 - 07:12 .

[cmessaz]

Lol, and as far as I go my view changes with each Hawke. I have my hypocrite mage, my pro-mage freedom mage, and my wtf these mages are nuts rogue. I never like to play the same way twice.

[Amondra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Amondra wrote...
There is nothing wrong with that.  But I beileve even you said, it is almost impossible to rival Anders without having to be pro-Templar.  It does suck because it really limits things down.  If the game even remotely seemed to me that rivaling him wasn't me beating with a "FU" stick I would want to do it.  But they made it seem "This is how it will go down!" almost that you enable or break him.  Pick  his drug, because you are the one giving it to him.  Help him and accept the new him, or fight with him and try to make him stay what he is/was.

But that is my view.

 

There's nothing wrong with that either. It would be boring if we all agreed on each others views completely. 

LOL true enough, I just don't like while playing the game it does seem to end up it is this or that for each path and no in between.  Like why can't I be like "Mages Freedom Hell yes! But Anders you are a ****** for Justice...just so you know."  

Though I don't seem him as a ******...because sadly I am a sob for those things, and if I was Anders I would have gone for it too >_>  *Friends step on me often*  Me and him have signs that say "We fall for sad stories."

[SurelyForth]

cmessaz wrote...
Neither are happy, really. But him dying at the end of rivalry...turns me off the rivalmance tbh, and that kinda sucks since I did enjoy it. It wouldn't be easy by any means, but I just would like a way to think he lives at least for a while. Again otherwise it's friendship or bust...which cuts down replay value...etc. Lol, I'm not one to typically argue that my vision is "right" but, I just like the option to rp it differently.

(this is NOT aimed at you, cmessaz)

One of the problems inherent in the situation is that they've set him up to identify so strongly with the cause, even before he merges with Justice. The first time you meet him he's standing in a pile of dead templars and, even if he didn't kill him, he doesn't really care that much that they've died. He doesn't like it when you agree to hunt the blood mages in Amaranthine and his approval for and loyalty to the Warden is tied up in them protecting him from the templars.

For me, to want even a happy-ish ending to a path when that path ends in (and I cannot stress this enough) Anders himself actively assisting in the murders of innocent mages for a crime HE committed is unrealistic. To then expect him to carry on with that guilt, knowing that they died while he lives...I can't even wrap my head around that sort of thought process.

And even if Justice can be removed, he will still know what he did, what he allowed to happen to those mages. I can't see any version of Anders that we have known being able to live with that knowledge, especially not free and with his lover.