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[Sialater]

Amondra wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Amondra wrote...
There is nothing wrong with that.  But I beileve even you said, it is almost impossible to rival Anders without having to be pro-Templar.  It does suck because it really limits things down.  If the game even remotely seemed to me that rivaling him wasn't me beating with a "FU" stick I would want to do it.  But they made it seem "This is how it will go down!" almost that you enable or break him.  Pick  his drug, because you are the one giving it to him.  Help him and accept the new him, or fight with him and try to make him stay what he is/was.

But that is my view.

 

There's nothing wrong with that either. It would be boring if we all agreed on each others views completely. 

LOL true enough, I just don't like while playing the game it does seem to end up it is this or that for each path and no in between.  Like why can't I be like "Mages Freedom Hell yes! But Anders you are a ****** for Justice...just so you know."  

Though I don't seem him as a ******...because sadly I am a sob for those things, and if I was Anders I would have gone for it too >_>  *Friends step on me often*  Me and him have signs that say "We fall for sad stories."

But that's the theme for the entire game.  NO COMPROMISE!  There is NO Option "C". 

ToP AGAIN!

Not sure who did this one.

Modifié par Sialater, 07 juin 2011 - 07:15 .

[cmessaz]

I will admit small...wtf moments with the rival/templar ending. Well...some big ones really.

[Reflection Muse]

SurelyForth wrote...

(this is NOT aimed at you, cmessaz)

One of the problems inherent in the situation is that they've set him up to identify so strongly with the cause, even before he merges with Justice. The first time you meet him he's standing in a pile of dead templars and, even if he didn't kill him, he doesn't really care that much that they've died. He doesn't like it when you agree to hunt the blood mages in Amaranthine and his approval for and loyalty to the Warden is tied up in them protecting him from the templars.

For me, to want even a happy-ish ending to a path when that path ends in (and I cannot stress this enough) Anders himself actively assisting in the murders of innocent mages for a crime HE committed is unrealistic. To then expect him to carry on with that guilt, knowing that they died while he lives...I can't even wrap my head around that sort of thought process.

And even if Justice can be removed, he will still know what he did, what he allowed to happen to those mages. I can't see any version of Anders that we have known being able to live with that knowledge, especially not free and with his lover.

Can I just say I love you for explaining this so beautifully? I wholeheartedly agree.

[Ryzaki]

Amondra wrote...
LOL true enough, I just don't like while playing the game it does seem to end up it is this or that for each path and no in between.  Like why can't I be like "Mages Freedom Hell yes! But Anders you are a ****** for Justice...just so you know."  

Though I don't seem him as a ******...because sadly I am a sob for those things, and if I was Anders I would have gone for it too >_>  *Friends step on me often*  Me and him have signs that say "We fall for sad stories."

 

Yeah that does suck. I want to friend Fenris while being pro-circle yet pro-getting rid of his hatred. Apparently being pro-circle automaticaly means I don't want him to get rid of his hatred *. LOL a ******. I'm still upset I only get a handful of dialogues trying to reason with Anders that mage freedom needs to be somewhat of a compromise. (and that they'll need help from the common people). I understand not wanting to compromise with the Chantry but they're gonna need to compromisewith the people they plan on living among. You don't just force your will on someone and expect everything to "just work out.". I was hoping I could encourage him and other apostates to do what he was doing, running clinics for the poor and such so they could get used to how useful mages could be. Nothing encourages people like utility. Having templars arrest helpful mages would turn the populace against them and make it clear the templars aren't protecting people (how are they protecting anyone from free healing and healthcare?) 

ha! I'm pretty anti-sad story unless the person with the sad story is trying to change for the better. If they're not I tend to get abrasive and harsh. (That and sing "cry me a river." in my head [or outloud depending on who I'm talking too] ). My brother has a pretty sad story but he's a complete tool. He just uses it to get laid. 

Sialater wrote...

But that's the theme for the entire game.  NO COMPROMISE!  There is NO Option "C".  

 

...I'm still upset I can't tell both sides to kick rocks.  

Meredith: You can't just leave! If you do I'll kill you!
Hawke: But..I can side with the side that you're threatening to kill? That doesn't seem a little off to you?  

Meredith: THE PLOT DICTATES.

Hawke: ...Oh this is bull.  (*keeps picking "I don't want to get involved.*) 

Meredith: YOU'RE ALREADY INVOLVED.

Hawke: ...No I'm not (*keeps picking middle option*) 

Meredith: THE PLOT DICTATES. 

Hawke: ...Oh for the love of- Fine fine. *picks a side in irritation*

*is attacked by side he/she picked 5- 10 minutes later*

Hawke: <_< I never saw this coming. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juin 2011 - 07:38 .

[Mekarah]

I am so far behind on this thread, mostly because instead of reading it and catching up I've been reading SurelyForth's fics (but mostly Maps and Legends) and wondering why there aren't a million more updates because I neeeeeeeed them.

As for songs, lately, I feel like every other Mumford and Sons song reminds me of Anders. Just, go listen to them. Esp. White Blank Page and After the Storm and...yes, all of them.

EDIT: Hahaha sooo I apparently didn't refresh before I posted and didn't see the other TWO PAGES that have been posted since I read a few hours or whatever ago. Sorry for the OT random post.

*slinks away*

Modifié par Mekarah, 07 juin 2011 - 07:25 .

[Ryzaki]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
The option to annull Kirkwall entirely or simply sail away on Isabela's ship are sorely lacking for me.

 

Annulling Kirkwall would've been overkill. I don't think even Hawke could've survived that. 

Sailing away on Izzy's ship was an option sorely missed however. 

Hawke could've been neutral and still be dragged into the conflict. All you really needed was to say Aveline needed your help because themages/templars figting was killing civilians by the dozens and she needed Hawke to get Meredith and Orsino to call off their sides. Would've been futile but Hawke could've run into Orsino Harvester and then Meredith with her lightsaber of doom could've still said he was a bloodmage thrall. Neutral ending could've also ended with Hawke choosing to be Vicount or to leave dodge. (and the rumors that he blew up the Chantry could've been strengthened by the fact that Hawke tried to flee Kirkwall first.) 

[Hill-Hurwitz]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

The option to annull Kirkwall entirely or simply sail away on Isabela's ship are sorely lacking for me.

I can only imagine how differently (and so much better) things would have turned out if the Warden was in Kirkwall instead. I really miss those Persuade and Cunning features.

[Sialater]

Ryzaki wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
The option to annull Kirkwall entirely or simply sail away on Isabela's ship are sorely lacking for me.

 

Annulling Kirkwall would've been overkill. I don't think even Hawke could've survived that. 

Sailing away on Izzy's ship was an option sorely missed however. 

Hawke could've been neutral and still be dragged into the conflict. All you really needed was to say Aveline needed your help because themages/templars figting was killing civilians by the dozens and she needed Hawke to get Meredith and Orsino to call off their sides. Would've been futile but Hawke could've run into Orsino Harvester and then Meredith with her lightsaber of doom could've still said he was a bloodmage thrall. Neutral ending could've also ended with Hawke choosing to be Vicount or to leave dodge. (and the rumors that he blew up the Chantry could've been strengthened by the fact that Hawke tried to flee Kirkwall first.) 

Oh, hell, what about the JOB OFFER you get from Alistair if he's bloody KING!  And he offers to reinstate Aveline!

C'mon Anders, we're letting them solve it themselves. 
But that's unjust!
Sure it is.  It's called poetic justice.

Modifié par Sialater, 07 juin 2011 - 07:44 .

[Ryzaki]

Sialater wrote...
Oh, hell, what about the JOB OFFER you get from Alistair if he's bloody KING!  And he offers to reinstate Aveline!

C'mon Anders, we're letting them solve it themselves. 
But that's unjust!
Sure it is.  It's called poetic justice.

 

I can't believe I forgot about that!  

LOL Sia.  

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

That was a joke. Maybe you're joking or not - I don't know - it's difficult to tell within the written form. Anyway. Yes. I wish there were more politically neutral options for more politically neutral Hawkes. For a few of my Hawkes it seems a little OOC to get involved at all when all they want to do is get drunk and eat frilly Orlesian cakes.

 

Oh I know. I'm just being weird again. Nevermind . 

It really is. A neutral option was sorely missed. (which is really odd considering how you can be completely neutral all the way up to that point.). The choice just felt really bleh. If Beth isn't in the circle and Hawke's not an apostate it doesn't really feel like Hawke shouldn't be able to walk away. (should've been able to invite some of the mages along so they could've fought against the templars for Hawke). 

cmessaz wrote...

I will admit small...wtf moments with the rival/templar ending. Well...some big ones really.

 

The biggest WTF for me being where on earth did the templars go in the gallows entrance.  There was hundreds and they all just...poof! 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juin 2011 - 07:55 .

[Patchwork]

I know it can be handwaved but that my apostate mage stayed in Kirkwall after losing her entire family and being outed as a mage was a big immersion breaker for me. Especially when Meredith is so quick to threaten you for co-operation. Once Isabela had a ship Shona was all ready to go but noooo game says stay.

Choice was not a big part of Act 3.

[Sialater]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Oh, hell, what about the JOB OFFER you get from Alistair if he's bloody KING!  And he offers to reinstate Aveline!

C'mon Anders, we're letting them solve it themselves. 
But that's unjust!
Sure it is.  It's called poetic justice.

 

I can't believe I forgot about that!  

LOL Sia.  

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

That was a joke. Maybe you're joking or not - I don't know - it's difficult to tell within the written form. Anyway. Yes. I wish there were more politically neutral options for more politically neutral Hawkes. For a few of my Hawkes it seems a little OOC to get involved at all when all they want to do is get drunk and eat frilly Orlesian cakes.

 

Oh I know. I'm just being weird again. Nevermind . 

It really is. A neutral option was sorely missed. (which is really odd considering how you can be completely neutral all the way up to that point.). The choice just felt really bleh. If Beth isn't in the circle and Hawke's not an apostate it doesn't really feel like Hawke shouldn't be able to walk away. (should've been able to invite some of the mages along so they could've fought against the templars for Hawke). 

I want a "Screw You Guys, I'm Going Home," Option for DA3. 

Or at least a concrete, damned good reason we can't leave.  (DA:O was a little weak on this, too, IIRC)

[Ryzaki]

Sialater wrote...
I want a "Screw You Guys, I'm Going Home," Option for DA3.  

Or at least a concrete, damned good reason we can't leave.  (DA:O was a little weak on this, too, IIRC)

 

Me too. Even if it's handwaved later by eldritich abomination attacking and the PC having to save the day because he/she doesn't want his/her house destroyed.  

DAO to me made more sense (The Warden couldn't really leave because the Darkspawn were stalking him/her and he/she had no money or resources to go anywhere. (and the DN/DC would probably be pleased to take the fight to the archdemon). Of course it is subjective. 

Not leaving Kirkwall after Leandra's dead however...that to me was much harder to justify. Hawke unlike the Warden is dead broke, has somewhere to return to (Fereldan) and has a means to get there (he/she could afford a boat and the like). 

[Mekarah]

Sialater wrote...

I want a "Screw You Guys, I'm Going Home," Option for DA3. 

Or at least a concrete, damned good reason we can't leave.  (DA:O was a little weak on this, too, IIRC)

I'm sure it has something to do with it being your home and you want to make it better or some nonsense but...there's only so long you can throw water out in buckets before it's time to let the ship sink.

+1 for boat option.

[SurelyForth]

I don't understand why anyone would leave Kirkwall after Leandra's death...you have no family in Ferelden and you should have at least a few very good friends in Kirkwall. I know that Varric, Isabela and Aveline are like family to my Hawkes.

And I can't see Anders leaving Kirkwall willingly. I think he feels like it's where he's supposed to be.

[Ryzaki]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Sialater wrote...



I want a "Screw You Guys, I'm Going Home," Option for DA3. 

Or at least a concrete, damned good reason we can't leave.  (DA:O was a little weak on this, too, IIRC)

YES. Exactly this. When Fenris asked me why I didn't just go home already, I scratched my head and had no proper way to answer him because. I had NO idea. The only reason that comes to mind is that Hawke must have been a little mental herself. She probably went into the last battle wearing nothing but an oversized clown nose and a very funny hat and the only reason Varric doesn't say as much is because he sniffed a bit of the Meredith burned lyrium corpse statue by accident and doesn't quite remember accurately and has to fill the blanks in his memory SOMEHOW and does it the most flattering way possible.

 

Oh god I hated that conversation with Fenris because I too had no proper way to answer him. I ended up BSing and saying Hawke  was just a "let go and move on." kind of guy. (which makes him staying in Kirkwall after Leandra's death even odder. ). but yeah. I did eventually turn him into the "shoves grief in a corner and never looks at it again." type. (who I ended up adoring because of that.) so him staying there especially with the templar/mage conflict a brewing just makes no sense. He's attached to his frends but not so attached that he'd stay in a potential bomb site. The only family in KIrkwall is Gamlen who he can barely stand, his friends (of those that there are one and that's Fenris) would be willing to move with him. Anders...I'm not sure about him. My Hawke might've tried to get him to come with. If he was fully unwilling my Hawke would've shrugged and left. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juin 2011 - 08:18 .

[Sialater]

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't understand why anyone would leave Kirkwall after Leandra's death...you have no family in Ferelden and you should have at least a few very good friends in Kirkwall. I know that Varric, Isabela and Aveline are like family to my Hawkes.

And I can't see Anders leaving Kirkwall willingly. I think he feels like it's where he's supposed to be.

Those friends are only there because of you.  Except Aveline, and even she gets a job offer.

Margaret just felt a growing disgust with most of the so-called leaders in Kirkwall after Leandra died.  Meredith and Orsino's cat fights just made it that much worse. 

There's not really a reason, if you got King Alistair's offer, to stick around, especially if all your friends would go with you. 

[Ryzaki]

Totally offtopicbut anyone watching E3? Did you see the tomb raider footage? O_O So creepy.

[Ryzaki]

Sialater wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't understand why anyone would leave Kirkwall after Leandra's death...you have no family in Ferelden and you should have at least a few very good friends in Kirkwall. I know that Varric, Isabela and Aveline are like family to my Hawkes.

And I can't see Anders leaving Kirkwall willingly. I think he feels like it's where he's supposed to be.

Those friends are only there because of you.  Except Aveline, and even she gets a job offer.

Margaret just felt a growing disgust with most of the so-called leaders in Kirkwall after Leandra died.  Meredith and Orsino's cat fights just made it that much worse. 

There's not really a reason, if you got King Alistair's offer, to stick around, especially if all your friends would go with you. 

 

And they can't be *that* attached to Kirkwall seeing how they all are perfectly fine with leaving with Hawke in the mage ending.  Money can be moved, businesses can be rebuilt in a more stable enviornments (without the rogue bloodmages, apostates and demons everywhere). There's really noreason I can see for my Hawkes to stay in Kirkwall. Hawke could even start shipping things s/he doesn't need to be right here for everything to work. (and that dude who owns the bone pit doesn't seem to need Hawke for anything other than emergencies. He could've gotten a merc to do that.) 

rayemoon wrote...

Okay, I don't want to cause strife or discord in the thread, but part of my mission in life is to not be silent on things I think matter.

To that end, I just want to say that I've noticed "******" (short for "retard," I'm sure) has been used several times lately, and this bothers me, because I think using it perpetuates negative stereotypes about actually mentally disabled/developmentally challenged/"retarded" people.

That being said, I'm not going to flounce, or throw fits or anything if people keep using it. I only bring it up because in my experience, the way in which language contributes to stereotypes is so subtle as to be practically invisible unless specifically pointed out. So, I'm pointing it out for anyone who wants to consider it.

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend anyone. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juin 2011 - 08:25 .

[Sialater]

ElleMullineux wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't understand why anyone would leave Kirkwall after Leandra's death...you have no family in Ferelden and you should have at least a few very good friends in Kirkwall. I know that Varric, Isabela and Aveline are like family to my Hawkes.

And I can't see Anders leaving Kirkwall willingly. I think he feels like it's where he's supposed to be.

I'm with Surely on this - you've fled for your life/ from the army - Lothering, the only place you've stayed for an extended period of time has been wiped off the map, you have no family and no connections there. Kirkwall you have a home, you have friends, you have business investments... why leave?

Because you can see it's going to hell in a handbasket and is beyond your power to fix.