highcastle wrote...
You are arguing exactly the same thing I did about Ketojan, only with the mages.
No I'm not. I saw you as arguing Ketojan wasn't mentally capable of making his choice. That he made it because of his brainwashing. The mages really don't have any other choice. It's not brainwashing it's fact. If they surrender they die. They have no choice to go back into the circle and keep living there. Just like Ketojan has no choice to go back to the Qunari without being killed. The templars are cutting them down. They are not accepting surrenders (only one who can accept a surrender is Hawke and Hawke's not a templar so only the genre savvy ones would pick up the difference). Their choices are live, or die. Die surrendering or die fighting. They're dying either way. The only choice that involves life is fighting. (And I'm not arguing that they don't have choices. They just have s***y choices). If you mean from when they were first captured then the mages did probably have the same bleak choices as Ketojan. However i'm talking about the decisions with Ketojan after his collar is off and his handlers are all killed, and the mages after the chantry is destroyed and the templars are threatening to come under seige.
Orsino tries to surrender right off but Meredith says no. It's no longer an option for them anymore than being recollared was an option for Ketojan. Their choices are then fight and try to live or die. Surrendering is pointless because they'll still be killed (it's still a choice though). They have no option to go back to the circle peacefully and live. Thus fight or die. Ketojan's choices were die or throw away all that he's ever known. He chose the former. The mages chose the latter)>
Also, Anders isn't directly responsible for this. Meredith is, when she called for the Right. Or should the mages--Anders included--just sat on their hands and let her kill them. Is that a choice?
Anders gave Meredith enough power to do so. Saying he's not responsible for it is like saying the man who gives the underage child car keys isn't responsible for them crashing. He gave Meredith the gun and ammunition. She just decided to fire.
Again the mages wouldn't have been killed at that moment if Anders hadn't killed the Grand Cleric and given Meredith (whom he knows wants to kill the mages) enough power to do so.
How do you know Hawke's not doing anything? Just because we're not playing out Dragon Age: Wine and Dine Political Donors, it doesn't mean it's not happening. I also don't see Hawke shower once in the game. Or use the bathroom. Clearly he's not doing either of these things.
Because it's not even suggested. The mage underground all goes "OMG You're working for Meredith/Orsino!" If that wasn't the case why would they be screaming? If you were on their side the whole time why do they act shocked when Hawke goes "I don't support Meredith."
And Bran makes it clear Meredith won't support his bid for viscount, and she has the power to veto him, sadly. So until he can find a way to combat that (hence going to King Alistair, a foreign leader with an army and influence all his own), Hawke won't be viscount. I actually do wish the game let us explore the politics a little more. But since most people like hacking things up and not debating with NPCs for hours on end, that probably won't ever happen in gameplay.
That is true
But that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
And in reverse that doesn't mean it did. The complete lack of anything supporting it means it was far more likely to not have occured.
As I've said, Hawke's a personal construct. If your Hawke did nothing, wanted to do nothing, and never tried do anything...well, that's good for your Hawke I guess.
If I try to say Hawke's been spending the whole time undermining the mage underground and supporting Meredith it makes no sense why Orsino would ask for his aid. Some things are just not supported by the game and no amount of HC will make it happen.
Edit: I didn't mean to state what you were arguing sorry. And I'm getting a wee bit heated so I'll step back here.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juin 2011 - 10:28 .
Actually you're right. He's a bit worse as he expectsthem tofight for their freedom or die. They no longer have a choice to simply live in the abuseive home.
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