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[CulturalGeekGirl]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

All of this reminds me of a bit that Jim Gaffigan does:

"Life is a little easier for attractive people. Think about it, if a stranger smiles at you and they’re attractive, you think, 'Oh, they’re nice.' But if the stranger’s ugly, you’re like, 'What do they want? Get away from me weirdo.'"

The same thing is pretty much true for vague perviness. When I discovered on the X-files that Mulder had that huge porn collection, I was like "Oh, that's adorably pervy," because Mulder's already adorable. So Anders gets a pass for a lot of his crazy because of the handsome.

Sadly true, and not only in this. Attractiveness goes a long way in many areas in life.

I, myself, have a pathetic weakness for stubbly men with longish hair, otherwise I might have gone for the less doomed-from-the-start LI's

And then there's the voice. Ye gods and little fishes, the voice. I know that's pretty much the standard for Bioware games, all guys have a sexy voice, but this one goes the extra sex mile. That's certainly what got me.

Onto the subject of doom: I did my rant a page ago about FoolishHawke vs. EgoHawke, but I honestly don't find the Anders romance as tragic as some do. If you go into it with eyes open, with the attitude that the crazy comes standard, you've got a decent chance of coming out of it OK.

I've played a lot of video games, read a lot of SF&F novels, and seen a lot of anime. There are so many more awful and completely unfixable ways a relationship can end. Yes, Anders is pretty messed up by the end of the game. But on a scale of one to doomed, Anders is only about a seven, if that. Possibly as low as a five.

Edit for Top: 

D'aaaw. All the prettiest boys.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 juin 2011 - 06:55 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

See, I actually find Alistair's romance sadder than Anders, in its way. Because for my Dalish warden, Alistair has to become king, because Anora isn't going to be kind to the Elves and mages. She's a decent enough sort but she isn't going to go out of her way to be open to the needs of minority groups. So he goes on the throne and sleeps with Morrigan and my elf becomes his mistress or whatever, if that (I'm still not 100% sure how that ends, for her.)

It seems like a lot of people had Couslands as their first Alistair romance. But if you play as an elf... it feels a lot more tragic, there. At least with friended Anders, it seems like you might get a few more years together.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 juin 2011 - 07:08 .

[ademska]

delurkin cause this thread is the most awesome thing ever and i am itching to nerd out

Addai67 wrote...

Okay... I know I'm trolling, but I have to ask... why would you ("you" as in a reasonably grounded, mature PC) ever consent to be in a relationship with someone like this?  Arm's length, okay, but a romantic relationship with someone so codependent and with no sense of self?  Is it to fix him?  Exploit him?  Those are the only two reasons i can come up with, and this is even apart from the whole abomination thing.

it's interesting that you provide the caveat of "reasonably grounded, mature" as part of a pc personality.  hawke has a few predetermined traits regardless of personality, but for the most part he/she is a palette to imprint as the player sees fit, and this doesn't necessarily include either of those traits.  heck, playing a sarcastic personality hawke even without deeply rp'ing still gives you a character who is pretty much the opposite of mature.

without delving too deep (though i've already codified it into fic, so, too late), my primary hawke romances anders because he himself is a sarcastic manchild with a few deeply-rooted feelings about the mage plight, and anders' general anders-ness simultaneously scares the **** out of him and gives him a sense of purpose.  hawke in that playthrough is not a particularly grounded person, and i'd wager even less so by the end of the game--however, judgment of either of their actions and motivations depends on the observer's viewpoint; i'd wager CulturalGeekGirl and i would both get on well with them.

this sort of character works well within the confines of the game and anders' romance path, and it's just a small example of rp'ing. bioware intentionally writes games to this end, bro.

none of us here (or so i'd hope) harbor any kind of fundamental misunderstanding of the crazypants that is anders, we just react differently to it

[elenilote]

Oh yes. The Ultimate Sacrifice ending. I SO did not see it coming and I cried like a girl. :/

And I totally agree with you on the Heathcliffe reference

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ugh I hate Heathcliffe! Haha. Man, that book fills me with directionless rage. Don't mind me.

I also prefer bittersweet to out-and-out tragic. When at the end you're like "well we still love each other and are together, but now what? What the hell does that even mean in this crazy world with all the crap we've been through?"

Or, alternatively "We've been through all this stuff and are together now. Does that mean we're in love? What the hell is love anyway? I mean I certainly don't want to leave, but I'm also not hearing songbirds. Guess it's up to us to figure out."

I'm fine with a typical sappy ending too. I love pretty much every romance Pratchett has ever written, and they all basically end with "Well we're awesome, and everything has worked out much better than it should, so let's try to live!"

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Have you ever seen the movie The Last Unicorn, or read the book?

That precisely captures one of my favorite kind of endings, and I think... in a way, it echoes the Anders thing. It's all about love and sacrifice and transformation. It's still my favorite movie, years later.

[Hill-Hurwitz]

ElleMullineux wrote...

The thing I like about Anders romance is that it is epically flawed from the get-go. There are lies and half-truths inherent in it, we as players know the old Anders, but Hawke never does, they only see Janders, and my canon Hawkette has serious Daddy-issues/abandonment issues so his intensity and his fight for freedom ticks all the right co-dependent creepy boxes.

Agreed; he does warn you, after all, that geting involved isn't a good idea, if the glowy bit during Tranquility wasn't a big enough hint. He's a spirit-possessed man, with all the trials that come with it -  You decide how your Hawke deals with that.

Song Suggestion for Hawke/Anders - Happy Together (For some reason I can't stop listening to this. It's wonderfully dark, with a dash of creepy, and heavily dosed with lyrical dissonance that can be interperated as you will. It's become my Hunted Apostates Love Song)

[Torax]

 I always thought this song fit Anders well.

Mumford & Sons - The Cave

Modifié par Torax, 11 juin 2011 - 08:19 .

[Rattsu]

ademska wrote...
without delving too deep (though i've already codified it into fic, so, too late), my primary hawke romances anders because he himself is a sarcastic manchild with a few deeply-rooted feelings about the mage plight, and anders' general anders-ness simultaneously scares the **** out of him and gives him a sense of purpose.  hawke in that playthrough is not a particularly grounded person, and i'd wager even less so by the end of the game--however, judgment of either of their actions and motivations depends on the observer's viewpoint; i'd wager CulturalGeekGirl and i would both get on well with them.

Thank you for the link!

Our Hawkes are so alike at times.... loved the read!

[Patchwork]

Bah give me Labyrinth over The Last Unicorn any day.
Similar theme but with better songs and David Bowie in those trousers.

[kromify]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Have you ever seen the movie The Last Unicorn, or read the book?

That precisely captures one of my favorite kind of endings, and I think... in a way, it echoes the Anders thing. It's all about love and sacrifice and transformation. It's still my favorite movie, years later.

eeeeeeeee yes i watched it all the time as a child!!! so depressing  

[kromify]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

I don't know what else to say to you. One would have to throw away common sense to want to be in a relationship with someone like Anders, and for those who think mainly with their hearts feelings are often stupid. That might not be reason enough for you, but it is reason enough for some.

i know i'm necro-ing but i was sleeping  

thinking with hearts is stupid only because it doesn't involve the head. and heads are overrated. life is for living and feeling - not contemplating.
not letting your heart rule the important decisions sounds like a recipe for unfulfillment

i study evolution and conservation. so many many of my contempories are passionate about conservation; be it owls, turtles, bats, sharks, whatever, and this passion is something i love and admire about all of them. unfortunately i'm a boring old evolutionist; my gift is working out backwards puzzles, not an all-inspiring determination and passion. but i see those who are, and damn! don't i wish

[kromify]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

kromify wrote...



i know i'm necro-ing but i was sleeping  

thinking with hearts is stupid only because it doesn't involve the head. and heads are overrated. life is for living and feeling - not contemplating.
not letting your heart rule the important decisions sounds like a recipe for unfulfillment

i study evolution and conservation. so many many of my contempories are passionate about conservation; be it owls, turtles, bats, sharks, whatever, and this passion is something i love and admire about all of them. unfortunately i'm a boring old evolutionist; my gift is working out backwards puzzles, not an all-inspiring determination and passion. but i see those who are, and damn! don't i wish

Is this a general stab at cynicism or my comment specifically? This was a reply to someone who could not wrap her mind around any well-balanced PC wanting to be in a romantic relationship with someone as... troubled as Anders. I merely said that people who go with what their hearts tell them to do will want to be with Anders out of love, no matter how bad idea it might seem.

it was the feeling i got from the whole argument... yours was just the first appropriate post to quote i found when i went back to look. this is the trouble when necro-ing!!!

call it a stab at cynicism generally. i believe people are always troubled whether they show it to the world or internally acknowledge it. i have issues, i'm sure you and everyone else on this thread have issues. possibly it's better to deal with those who where their heart on their sleeve instead of tucking it safely away - at least you know what you're dealing with get less huge surprises when they do something incongruous or out of character. *ohh look what a pretty colour that sky is! kinda red and bloody!*

i would be bored to death with someone who has no passions...

[highcastle]

Addai67 wrote...

signcherie wrote...

highcastle wrote...

That's my impression, too. Regardless of how he treats him, regardless of whether his affections are returned, Hawke is the love of Anders' life. And not only that, he's the pillar to which Anders lashes any semblance of his self. When he first encounters Hawke, he's still coming to grips with his merger with Justice and the idea that he has altered himself completely. Every thought he has is suspect; it could arrise from somewhere, someone else. And somehow he meets this person who's with him during a very traumatic event, who returns to him later despite seeing Anders at his most monstrous, and that's it. Flip switched. Damage done. At this point, I believe, Anders is irrevocably in love with Hawke.

It's also interesting that Anders is the only character whose entire world-view can shift regarding his relationship  with Hawke. Other companions may shift their view of Hawke himself, or perhaps one or two issues--such as Merrill and her mirror--but otherwise remain fundamentally the same. But Anders defines himself fully by Hawke's perception of him. In a friendship, Anders' views are reinforced and he comes to accept himself as being more than what he once was, but still a unified whole. On the rivalry, he sees himself as two warring entities, Regardless, there is a part of him that always loves Hawke, that trusts him to be honest (referenced in one of their Act 1 conversations), and thus to believe about himself whatever Hawke says is true. Is he a visionary or a monster? It's up to Hawke to decide, but either way, Anders agrees.

Which is really rather depressing now that I've written it all out.

I love this post. I love your interpretation of why Anders falls in love with Hawke. And everything else is exactly how I see Anders, only worded way more eloquently than I could ever say it.

Also, [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie].

Okay...I know I'm trolling, but I have to ask... why would you ("you" as in a reasonably grounded, mature PC) ever consent to be in a relationship with someone like this?  Arm's length, okay, but a romantic relationship with someone so codependent and with no sense of self?  Is it to fix him?  Exploit him?  Those are the only two reasons i can come up with, and this is even apart from the whole abomination thing.

Alright, I know I'm dragging this back from the grave. I don't care, I was sleeping and I'm sick. ou have to have pity on sick people and indulge them. It's like the law.

I am not in love with Anders. My character however, is. Why? Because I generally play pretty messed up characters. So my canon Hawke idolized his father's ability to protect his family. When his father died, Hawke slowly started to lose everyone he cares about. For a guy with a hero complex and a fierce devotion to his family, this was pretty devestating. Then along comes someone who needs him, who wants him, and who he's actually capable of protecting from the templars and himself. My Hawke needs Anders just as much as Anders needs him. Is it healthy? Not by a long shot.

I prefer characters and relationships with a lot of flaws. Not in reality, of course, but in literature. These flaws and tension create drama, and drama keeps a story moving forward.

Modifié par highcastle, 11 juin 2011 - 10:11 .

[Rattsu]

highcastle wrote...
I prefer characters and
relationships with a lot of flaws. Not in reality, of course, but in
literature. These flaws and tension create drama, and drama keeps a
story moving forward.

Well said, it is far more interesting with two flawed people trying to make things work than one well-adjusted person trying to save the other...

[BlueMew]

It's also the kind of person you are, really. I for one might romance a broken person, if I had the feeling he'd be worth it. Does that make me broken? Possibly, there's more than 1 poster in this thread alone who'd say so if only because of choosing heart over head in certain cases :/

But you'll always have Big Picture People and Little Picture People, and I'm not terribly bothered by the fact I'll probably be a Little Picture person forever that - granted - every now and then takes out the popcorn to watch the Big Picture just for the purpose of observing. Without us, the world would be less interesting and everyone would be bored

Ad on the subject of Anders-Merrill, here's my example of what characterizes their relationship best IMO:

Anders: It's not a good feeling, you know.
Merrill: What?
Anders: Being an abomination. I just got a taste of your future.
Merrill: I'm not that foolish. Our relationship is, um, strictly platonic.
Anders: It's like you're trapped in your own body, seeing out your eyes, while someone else moves you like a puppet.
Anders: And you're trying to scream, to move a single muscle, but there's no escape. Until you look down at the blood on your hands...
Merrill: Stop it. You're scaring me.
Anders: That's the point.

Oh, and of course the quintessential example of what my Hawke and Merrill are like:
Hawke: Please tell me you didn't bring the killer mirror to Kirkwall just because it's pretty.

Modifié par BlueMew, 11 juin 2011 - 10:28 .

[BlueMew]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Well said! I'm not a fan of pure fluff-and-bunny stories. My PC's are often at least as full of issues as the characters in the game.

Aye... though I'm not partial to 'everyone dies' or 'unhappily ever after' endings just for the drama of it. Everything stands or falls with how well it's written.