57020 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMew]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

... Uhm. I just want to say, if I came across as saying that people who choose heart over head are stupid, then that was not what I meant. At all. I'm sorry if I caused any offense

Uh, I didn't think you were offensive. 

Unlike, say, Knight of Phoenix who is basically Havelock Vetinari (er, yes, that's both a compliment and something a bit scary ) I don't care much about not always thinking in terms of efficiency and reason, and there seem to be many who agree. And many who don't, I guess. Diversity is good.

[kromify]

nobody is ever offended on this thread because nobody means to offend. it's why i love it here. and the cookies and necroboners of course

[AndreaDraco]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Nice!

[Sarielle]

kromify wrote...

nobody is ever offended on this thread because nobody means to offend. it's why i love it here. and the cookies and necroboners of course

You're not enjoying those at the same time, I hope.

[kromify]

Sarielle wrote...

kromify wrote...

nobody is ever offended on this thread because nobody means to offend. it's why i love it here. and the cookies and necroboners of course

You're not enjoying those at the same time, I hope.

it's called multitasking. i have 2 hands, don't i...?  

[Sialater]

Sarielle wrote...

kromify wrote...

nobody is ever offended on this thread because nobody means to offend. it's why i love it here. and the cookies and necroboners of course

You're not enjoying those at the same time, I hope.

Of course not.  Don't want to get crumbs everywhere.

I wish I could chime in on why I like Anders' romance and his character.  I really wish I could.  But he breaks every single "rule" I thought I had on romances and leaves them exploded all over Hightown.  (Yes, he jenga'ed my Chantry.)

Hell, he even breaks my  physical "type."

Modifié par Sialater, 11 juin 2011 - 01:23 .

[Sarielle]

kromify wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

kromify wrote...

nobody is ever offended on this thread because nobody means to offend. it's why i love it here. and the cookies and necroboners of course

You're not enjoying those at the same time, I hope.

it's called multitasking. i have 2 hands, don't i...?  

lol

Though frankly, I'm more partial to shameboners than necroboners myself. So you get automatically docked some points for that.

[kromify]

Sarielle wrote...

kromify wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

kromify wrote...

nobody is ever offended on this thread because nobody means to offend. it's why i love it here. and the cookies and necroboners of course

You're not enjoying those at the same time, I hope.

it's called multitasking. i have 2 hands, don't i...?  

lol

Though frankly, I'm more partial to shameboners than necroboners myself. So you get automatically docked some points for that.

a little prideboner now and then doesn't hurt   

[Sialater]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Sialater wrote...


Of course not.  Don't want to get crumbs everywhere.

I wish I could chime in on why I like Anders' romance and his character.  I really wish I could.  But he breaks every single "rule" I thought I had on romances and leaves them exploded all over Hightown.  (Yes, he jenga'ed my Chantry.)

Hell, he even breaks my  physical "type."

The good thing about preferences is that they don't have to make sense. I thought I hated alcohol and declared myself a teetotaler and then I tried whiskey once and loved immediately. Part of what draws me to Anders as a character and a romance is that he is so very passionate and intense and everything he feels, he feels very strongly. There's just a lot of him there, if that makes sense.

True, but... I hate not knowing why.  I have a lot of little reasons, but nothing I can point to and say definitvely, "this is why."

[beckaliz]

I wonder if I would still romance Anders again if I hadn't done it in my unspoiled PT. My Hawke is sarcastic and makes jokes, but I think it's as a cover-up and not exactly being immature. It's perhaps because of the Hawke family history that he tries not to put more weight on things that he knows are already weighty. Maybe life has just been depressing enough that he doesn't want to make it worse by acknowledging that fact.

I didn't set out on my first PT to make Hawke gay, but it happened. @_@ Anders happened. I'm not sure if it was the mage thing and how Hawke is 100% supportive of the plight of mages at the beginning, or if it was something else. I do what my current Hawke tells me to do. x__x I mean if Anders seems a little desperate at the beginning, he's got every reason to, being an apostate mage whose friend has just been destroyed basically, and he's dealing with all these refugees and around people in horrible conditions. On a personal level, my mom is a wonderful person but she has PTSD from a couple events in her life in the last 10 years and always has bad luck with everything she does, so she definitely comes off as crazy sometimes when I know she's not... It's a lot of stress reacting. People can seem psychotic when they're just reacting to things around them that aren't reasonable.

But Hawke does see the goodness in him, and approves of him helping refugees, and I think he likes the fact that Anders is a mage. I mean, everybody has SOMETHING that they like "just because". I know I do.

Getting into Act 3 again, though, is depressing me. I don't want to do the bomb quest yet, and yesterday I was wandering around the Wounded Coast with Anders and Varric in tow and Varric keeps trying to talk to Anders but Anders is all like grumpy-depressing-pants. *shakes fist* I WISH that we could have Hawke say something to these party conversations. I'm sure that having a mopey Anders around the house is bumming my poor Hawke out. Not to mention Bodahn's absolutely DELIGHTFUL conversation about leaving for Orlais, and he says he worries about Hawke being alone. SRSLY DEPRESSING.

Seems like the first 3 years after killing the Arishok and being a celebrated Champion and having a caring (albeit a little unhinged) lover at home are the only good times left before everything comes crashing down, and you don't even get to play it. u_u;;

I'll have more thoughts on the whole thing as I get through Act 3 again. I love replays with the same character... You get to view things in a whole new light. (Except in Mass Effect where my Shepard got Saren to shoot himself in the head the first time and not on my replay... I was sad.)

Modifié par beckaliz, 11 juin 2011 - 02:06 .

[MG800]

I hate and love how romances were handled in this game particularly with Anders:
We see blooming. We see early stage of relationship and "hooray let's live together".
And we see "what happens later" and the moment when the relationship gets more than rocky.What about things in between?   
Oh, go away, framed narrative. It was interesting experiment but let's not do that again.

Alright, I brag because I want more. And the issue is not only the romances. I wouldn't mind my Hawke playing a little as a Lord of the Hightown/Lady of the Hightown who's trying to strengthen his position/get away from his duties and boring parties. 
And it's little unnerving when I'm left to assume what happened to my character during some sort of stasis, as the story goes on.

Modifié par MG800, 11 juin 2011 - 03:00 .

[kromify]

MG800 wrote...

I hate and love how romances were handled in this game particularly with Anders:
We see blooming. We see early stage of relationship and "hooray let's live together".
And we see "what happens later" and the moment when the relationship gets more than rocky.What about things in between?
Oh, go away, framed narrative. It was interesting experiment but let's not do that again.

Alright, I brag because I want more. And the issue is not only the romances. I wouldn't mind my Hawke playing a little as a Lord of the Hightown/Lady of the Hightown who's trying to strengthen his position/get away from his duties and boring parties.

but you can only make so many alliances because the nobles won't all work together - and different alliances give different benefits and quests...

[berelinde]

beckaliz wrote...

I didn't set out on my first PT to make Hawke gay, but it happened. @_@ Anders happened.But Hawke does see the goodness in him, and approves of him helping refugees, and I think he likes the fact that Anders is a mage. I mean, everybody has SOMETHING that they like "just because". I know I do.

I know exactly what you mean.

This PT, I wanted to give an old DnD character (that later went on to become a BG/BG2 mod NPC) Gavin a try in DA2. Gavin is kind, caring, gullible, uber-diplo, and very, very hetero. (At least in my head. Some mod players disagree, as is their right.) He is also a cleric, not a mage, but I figured that he could go the spirit healer route and be OK. I thought that he'd go for Merrill. He would definitely be excited by Isabela and would probably think of her every time he... enjoyed some special "alone time," but he would probably be intimidated by her. His own fear of inadequacy would make it impossible for him to approach her. I thought that Merrill would be sweet and inexperienced enough to overcome his fears. That's what I planned, anyway.

And then he met Anders. Anders, with his soulful, trusting eyes and soft-looking, kissable neck. Anders, whose gaze follows Gavin's every move and whose voice throbs with the longing he fights to suppress. Anders, who fights against oppression he cannot hope to overcome alone, but who keeps fighting anyway. Anders, who needs him. Anders is not looking for love. He has resigned himself to solitude. It is not sexual attraction. Anders has already become so intimate with another entity that mere coupling means nothing. He needs Gavin.

And that's when Gavin went gay. Dang it, I really thought that by using Gavin as my PC this time, I could finally try the Merrill romance. Guess not.

[MG800]

kromify wrote...

MG800 wrote...

I hate and love how romances were handled in this game particularly with Anders:
We see blooming. We see early stage of relationship and "hooray let's live together".
And we see "what happens later" and the moment when the relationship gets more than rocky.What about things in between?
Oh, go away, framed narrative. It was interesting experiment but let's not do that again.

Alright, I brag because I want more. And the issue is not only the romances. I wouldn't mind my Hawke playing a little as a Lord of the Hightown/Lady of the Hightown who's trying to strengthen his position/get away from his duties and boring parties.

but you can only make so many alliances because the nobles won't all work together - and different alliances give different benefits and quests...

One can dream. Such a lot of replayablity 
I'm sure it could be handled efficiently -  see, this is kind of thing I can say, because I don't work there.

Modifié par MG800, 11 juin 2011 - 03:19 .

[beckaliz]

MG800 wrote...

I hate and love how romances were handled in this game particularly with Anders:
We see blooming. We see early stage of relationship and "hooray let's live together".
And we see "what happens later" and the moment when the relationship gets more than rocky.What about things in between?   
Oh, go away, framed narrative. It was interesting experiment but let's not do that again.

Alright, I brag because I want more. And the issue is not only the romances. I wouldn't mind my Hawke playing a little as a Lord of the Hightown/Lady of the Hightown who's trying to strengthen his position/get away from his duties and boring parties. 
And it's little unnerving when I'm left to assume what happened to my character during some sort of stasis, as the story goes on.

I agree. They really took something away when we couldn't have those little "at camp" moments with our LI, even if it's just a quick kiss here and there. I miss my elf mage and Alistair.

Reyonii: Kiss me, my big strong Gray Warden!
Alistair: Your wish is my command!

The only thing I've seen come close is when you visit Anders at the beginning of Act 3, and Anders is talking to Merrill OMG WHAT IF THEY SEE APOSTATES TALKING aslkdjflakjsdflkjasff and Merrill's like, " o-O " Then you can say to him, "Hey baby, shut up about your mages for a while. Merrill's gone, is this the best you can think of to do?"
And that's it. D: I mean, this goes for all the LI's, but ESPECIALLY with Anders, it'd be nice to have a few more at least non-sexual intimate moments thrown in there especially in Act 3 to solidify a relationship, and make it more real in the player's mind. Not that I don't have a strong imagination, I do, but I like seeing and hearing it, you know? Also, that way, you can break up with them at some point if you want to.

And, I don't necessarily think that the time skip is purely a symptom of the framed narrative, as just the limitations of the fact that you're playing a video game. I just watched a "making of" clip this morning and they mentioned how they wanted to make it a more personal story, about Hawke becoming this big figure, and how it would take ten years. Takes longer for one person to elevate themselves when there is no huge world-threatening evil to defeat.

Rather than, "This dude, he just defeated the Arishok in single combat!" "Really? Who??" "Some dude named Hawke!" "Who the heck is that?"

It's: "Hawke just defeated the Arishok in single combat!" "Hawke? You mean the guy who did [x] and [y]?" "Yes, him!!" "Whoa!"

Like a.... like a canon Mary-sue. XD Everybody knows/loves/respects/fears Hawke by the end! A perfect PC! LOL But that's the whole point of Hawke... They want to tell the story of the one who becomes "the most important person in Thedas". (I can't remember where I read that...)

So you can't fault them for the long time-frame, which makes a lot of sense to me in story context, and you can't really expect them to make 10 whole years of content. You don't even have to imagine that all the quests you do in Act 2 and Act 3 have to be all bunched together into just those two one-year periods. Certainly not the side-quests, and all the random crap that people beg you to do for them. I think it more reasonable to assume that the primary quests (and companion quests for the most part) are the ones that happen during the specific time frame of each Act, and all the other busywork is what fills up those missing years.

But like I said, with Anders it would be really nice to see some of that "tender lover" mushy stuff they put in my Codex before all the "WTF did you do, is there even a potion? You fricken blackmailed me!" "I know, I'm sorry I lied to you. I won't tell you what I did, though, because I'm protecting you. I love you. <3" "alsdjflsjf ANDERS"

Modifié par beckaliz, 11 juin 2011 - 03:41 .

[beckaliz]

berelinde wrote...

I know exactly what you mean.

**snip**

And then he met Anders. Anders, with his soulful, trusting eyes and soft-looking, kissable neck. Anders, whose gaze follows Gavin's every move and whose voice throbs with the longing he fights to suppress. Anders, who fights against oppression he cannot hope to overcome alone, but who keeps fighting anyway. Anders, who needs him. Anders is not looking for love. He has resigned himself to solitude. It is not sexual attraction. Anders has already become so intimate with another entity that mere coupling means nothing. He needs Gavin.

And that's when Gavin went gay. Dang it, I really thought that by using Gavin as my PC this time, I could finally try the Merrill romance. Guess not.

Hehehe I love your description there.

Oddly enough, the only Hawke I think I can possibly romance Merrill is my jerkface-hypocrite bloodmage Hawke. Logan is a complete ass, hates being a mage so he takes it out on everybody, especially other mages. We'll see how that turns out. I'm still on Act 1 with him, because it's hard to play such a mean guy.

My next PT I'll be torn between rivalmancing Anders and rivalmancing Sebastian. x_x Though it's hard to get friend/rival points with Seb at ALL for me so I don't know if I should bother.

[MG800]

beckaliz wrote...
I agree. They really took something away when we couldn't have those little "at camp" moments with our LI, even if it's just a quick kiss here and there. I miss my elf mage and Alistair.
Reyonii: Kiss me, my big strong Gray Warden!Alistair: Your wish is my command!
The only thing I've seen come close is when you visit Anders at the beginning of Act 3, and Anders is talking to Merrill OMG WHAT IF THEY SEE APOSTATES TALKING aslkdjflakjsdflkjasff and Merrill's like, " o-O " Then you can say to him, "Hey baby, shut up about your mages for a while. Merrill's gone, is this the best you can think of to do?"
And that's it. D: I mean, this goes for all the LI's, but ESPECIALLY with Anders, it'd be nice to have a few more at least non-sexual intimate moments thrown in there especially in Act 3 to solidify a relationship, and make it more real in the player's mind. Not that I don't have a strong imagination, I do, but I like seeing and hearing it, you know? Also, that way, you can break up with them at some point if you want to.
And, I don't necessarily think that the time skip is purely a symptom of the framed narrative, as just the limitations of the fact that you're playing a video game. I just watched a "making of" clip this morning and they mentioned how they wanted to make it a more personal story, about Hawke becoming this big figure, and how it would take ten years. Takes longer for one person to elevate themselves when there is no huge world-threatening evil to defeat.
Rather than, "This dude, he just defeated the Arishok in single combat!" "Really? Who??" "Some dude named Hawke!" "Who the heck is that?"
It's: "Hawke just defeated the Arishok in single combat!" "Hawke? You mean the guy who did [x] and [y]?" "Yes, him!!" "Whoa!"
Like a.... like a canon Mary-sue. XD Everybody knows/loves/respects/fears Hawke by the end! A perfect PC! LOL But that's the whole point of Hawke... They want to tell the story of the one who becomes "the most important person in Thedas". (I can't remember where I read that...)

So you can't fault them for the long time-frame, which makes a lot of sense to me in story context, and you can't really expect them to make 10 whole years of content. You don't even have to imagine that all the quests you do in Act 2 and Act 3 have to be all bunched together into just those two one-year periods. Certainly not the side-quests, and all the random crap that people beg you to do for them. I think it more reasonable to assume that the primary quests (and companion quests for the most part) are the ones that happen during the specific time frame of each Act, and all the other busywork is what fills up those missing years.

But like I said, with Anders it would be really nice to see some of that "tender lover" mushy stuff they put in my Codex before all the "WTF did you do, is there even a potion? You fricken blackmailed me!" "I know, I'm sorry I lied to you. I won't tell you what I did, though, because I'm protecting you. I love you. <3" "alsdjflsjf ANDERS"

I don't blame them. I just want some small talks. And mushy stuff. But I guess that "framed narrative" and "Varric did it" work as a perfect excuse for what we didn't get. And that's my issue. 
I like the idea of the personal story - I just want it to be more... personal. Maybe told by Hawke itself?

Modifié par MG800, 11 juin 2011 - 03:49 .

[MG800]

beckaliz wrote...

Hehehe I love your description there.

Oddly enough, the only Hawke I think I can possibly romance Merrill is my jerkface-hypocrite bloodmage Hawke. Logan is a complete ass, hates being a mage so he takes it out on everybody, especially other mages. We'll see how that turns out. I'm still on Act 1 with him, because it's hard to play such a mean guy.

My next PT I'll be torn between rivalmancing Anders and rivalmancing Sebastian. x_x Though it's hard to get friend/rival points with Seb at ALL for me so I don't know if I should bother.

****, I can't make a proper jerk >.>
I have Raul - he would make a good politician - but sure, he's a mix of selfishness, lack of morality and... sacriffice for family. He wants to change Kirkwall for Bethany, so he becomes a viscount. Complete evil is boring?
 
It's the only character who romanced someone else then Anders - I seriously need to make some tortured female blood mage for Merril. I almost had my magey man!hawke fall for her. Almost. The "you know a lot of stupid girls" line describes him well, and straight playboy falling for men.... well much more interesting then "she's not like the others" or some fatherly intincts kicking in.

Modifié par MG800, 11 juin 2011 - 05:05 .

[highcastle]

MG800 wrote...

I don't blame them. I just want some small talks. And mushy stuff. But I guess that "framed narrative" and "Varric did it" work as a perfect excuse for what we didn't get. And that's my issue. 
I like the idea of the personal story - I just want it to be more... personal. Maybe told by Hawke itself?

I don't think the framed narrative was necessarily at fault for this. The main thing seems to be that companions were allowed to speak more during quests. According to Gaider, word budgets for companions remained unchanged. But yes, I too want even more. Though I suspect I would say that no matter how many words the companions got to say. I love BioWare's writing, particularly the DA team (yes, even the goofy bits).

On the topic of the framed narrative, though, I actually quite liked it. When time passes like that, you can explore different dimensions of a relationship...and that's precisely what happened with Anders. We get the absolutely-in-love bit in Act 2, and we get to see them starting to fall apart due to bad communication in Act 3. My criticism would be that the key-giving scene should have been in Act 2, allowing for a bit more of the strained-romance in Act 3. But for the most part, everything flowed nicely for me.

[signcherie]

 I'm torn about the way they handled companions and romances. On the one hand, I'd much rather see Merrill clash with her Keeper than, say, listen to Morrigan rant about Flemeth. On the other hand, those moments with your LI are definitely lacking. And I can't help feeling like we are getting less content. If you took out all those companion-specific quests, you really don't have a complete game anymore. But in Origins, we had a complete game full of quests plus all that extra, optional character interaction. So something doesn't seem to be adding up to me.

Modifié par signcherie, 11 juin 2011 - 04:12 .

[kromify]

yeah; he's been living there for 3 years but hawke only gives him the key then? something went wrong... why not give it to him, say, 3 years ago?

[SurelyForth]

ME2 handled companion specific quests (and it's pretty loaded with companion specific quests) much better than DA2. The thought of one of Anders' personal quests being on par with Mordin's for ethical/moral debate or with Garrus's for showing the depth of his and Hawke's relationship makes me salivate.

Seriously. Could you imagine getting to discuss the Chantry v. Mage issue in detail as you went after Alrik? Maybe as you find bodies (both mage and templar) beneath the Gallows, Anders could discuss his life in the Circle and some of the things he's seen helping the Mage Underground. Just...the depth that could have been added in just a few lines. I'd trade a few lines of party banter or a flirt for something like that with every companion.

Re: The key...

My Hawke gives him access to the cellar pretty much as soon as the slavers are gone. She even sets him up a little bedroom and rigs up a bell that he can ring if he needs anything (which they then use once he moves in, so he can still be "on call" at his clinic). I don't really have a way to account for the key giving scene besides pretending that it's his own official copy that she's just gotten around to giving to him and he's happy because it reminds him of all she's done for him or something. IDK, it is ridiculous that it's in Act 3 and not Act 2.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 11 juin 2011 - 04:31 .