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[Hill-Hurwitz]

*sleepily holds FREE HUGS for Justice sign*

That... pretty much sums up my feelings. Possibly kisses for the grumpy ghost as well, but that's my headcanon, and I shan't be persuaded otherwise.

EDIT: HA - How did I end up ToP? Oh, well, JAnders smooches inc!

Fade Dream by TheSilverRaven

Modifié par Hill-Hurwitz, 12 juin 2011 - 09:45 .

[Amondra]

Hill-Hurwitz wrote...

*sleepily holds FREE HUGS for Justice sign*

That's... pretty much sums up my feelings. Possibly kisses for the grumpy ghost as well, but that's my headcanon, and I shan't be persuaded otherwise.

EDIT: HA - How did I end up ToP? Oh, well, JAnders smooches inc!

Fade Dream by TheSilverRaven

I will give him as many hugs and kisses as he desires.  Seriously, all I could think of while playing awakenings is "great I am crushing on a zombie" >_>

[ademska]

BlueMew wrote...

ademska wrote...
if i may, what kind of planning do you require? i assume something concrete, because anders certainly has an abstract idea of the consequences of his actions and thus tailored those actions to a perceived reaction.  it's not like he woke up one morning and decided, hey, today i'll bomb a building i don't like.

To add something: quite the contrary, in fact. He isn't planning that from the beginning -- after discovering that the Divine doesn't back up the solution of making every mage Tranquil, he's hopeful that Elthina will listen to him talk about the mages' oppression. Even when he plants the damn bomb he wants Hawke to try and sway her one last time. 
Instead she just sits on her arse and does nothing, but well, we already knew that.

exactly.

blowing up the chantry is a last resort option that he comes to after generous consideration of other options, and even the bomb itself is carefully planned (not the planting, though that too, rather i mean the intended consequences)

[Hill-Hurwitz]

Amondra wrote...

I will give him as many hugs and kisses as he desires.  Seriously, all I could think of while playing awakenings is "great I am crushing on a zombie" >_>

Ah, but he ain't zombified no more; he did get a sexy new body! JAnders is like the Reese' Peanut Butter Cup of LIs.

[ademska]

ElleMullineux wrote...

ademska wrote...

words

I only chose Merrill as an example as she's the only in game character I can think of that didn't split them into two groups. But I do see what you're saying - and my own personal view would be that they fit along a scale of grey. I doubt that any "spirit" is 100% good or any "demon" 100% bad.
As I was writing that ramble this morning I was thinking back to the desire demon in the circle tower in DAO, with the templar reliving his life with his wife and children - I struggle to find that inherently bad. It's not butterflies, rainbows and kittens, but there was something about it that didn't scream "omg wtf evil".

An interesting thought might be whether the spirits/demons are anything until a mortal interacts with them? Is it only after contact with a mortal that they gain any form and said form depends on the ideology/culture of that mortal. It might go someway to explain the differences between the beliefs of the Dalish and the Chantry - and yet let both 'types' of spirits exist at the same time. /rambly thoughts this morning.

ha, i almost always let that demon go, because i agree--it is a sliding scale of gray, once the whol chantry religion thing is taken out of the equation.  i have a... very loose set of morals, so i wouldn't even define the more selfish breeds of spirits/demons as darker gray myself, but still looking at objective definitions, i still contend there's a divide between what we see in the actions of the defined spirits vs demons. i'd wager this is mostly due to the writers' and western society in general's view of virtue vs sin.  virtue is inherently selfless, while sin it selfish.  it's hard to write a character like justice with flaws when the very nature of justice implies goodness to some degree

if i am making any sense at all this late

lol man it's late tl;dr: neither is particularly awesome, and ia that they are on a continuum rather than binary labels, but i'm not sure if i can go with that second interpretation simply on merit of the writers' cultural biases

i have lots of thoughts and i am not sure they are coming out right wow

[Amondra]

Hill-Hurwitz wrote...

Amondra wrote...

I will give him as many hugs and kisses as he desires.  Seriously, all I could think of while playing awakenings is "great I am crushing on a zombie" >_>

Ah, but he ain't zombified no more; he did get a sexy new body! JAnders is like the Reese' Peanut Butter Cup of LIs.

They are! I mean I about died when I heard Justice and Anders were going to be a two for one deal.  I mean what more could a girl ask for?!

[kromify]

Amondra wrote...

Hill-Hurwitz wrote...

Amondra wrote...

I will give him as many hugs and kisses as he desires.  Seriously, all I could think of while playing awakenings is "great I am crushing on a zombie" >_>

Ah, but he ain't zombified no more; he did get a sexy new body! JAnders is like the Reese' Peanut Butter Cup of LIs.

They are! I mean I about died when I heard Justice and Anders were going to be a two for one deal.  I mean what more could a girl ask for?!

more justice interactions...

[Ambeth]

Amondra wrote...

I will give him as many hugs and kisses as he desires.  Seriously, all I could think of while playing awakenings is "great I am crushing on a zombie" >_>

.... I resemble that remark.  And I was at the same place with you on the two-for-one when Anders/Justice was announced for DA2.


(and I still fell for Fenris first.  Totally disrupted my 'rogue for Anders, mage for Fenris' gameplan.  What is this, I don't even....)

kromify wrote...


more justice interactions...

Hear, hear!  But I am finding some fanfic to pick up that slack.

Modifié par Ambeth, 12 juin 2011 - 01:25 .

[legbamel]

kromify wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...
everyone here on the anders thread acknowledges that he is not the best strategiser. the point is that no one else was prepared to strategise.

As such, no one should have done anything imo. The world is not going to end. Mages are not under an imminent threat of extinction.

The problem is, Anders is fully accepting of the idea that mages being eradicated is better than the life they are leading now, so I do not think he thought of victory or change that much. A premise I reject.

meredith had already sent for the rite of annulment. they are under a pretty damn big threat. even if it was rejected (which i don't think it would have been considering divine justinia was considering an exalted march) they are still being tranqiled left right and centre for minor infractions. illegally.

and i don't believe anders does fully accept the idea of mages being eradicated being better... he wants open warfare because it gives a mere chance of hope. but this is kinda subjective depending on how we interpret his words...

I know this is three days late but it takes a long time to read through these debates.  This is the only thing I really didn't see address: Anders WANTED Meredith to annul the Circle.  It wasn't blowing up the Chantry that sparked the revolution, it was her reaction invoking the Right that did it.  And that's the biggest source of conflict I have regarding the ending: could he have pushed her to do with without the Grand Cleric's consent?  And if he had would the Circle's have rebelled against the Templars?

And why would anyone blame the Chantry (in general, beyond Elthina's refusal to act) for something the Knight-Commander chose in the institution's absence?  Would the other Circles seize the opportunity to "throw off their shackles"?  These are the questions that keep me up at night.  Okay, they don't, but I do think the third installment has a lot of ground to cover in explaining how it went from relatively-stable if oppressive (conservative factions in the majority) to powder keg because one guy outside the system blew up a church and one Knight-Commander annulled a circle five minutes later.

[Ambeth]

ElleMullineux wrote...
So in this instance, maybe Anders didn't put up enough defence against his influence? Didn't expect to confront such a friendly seeming demon? We're given hints that the more powerful the demon the more intelligent they are... perhaps Vengence is just a very clever demon? /devils advocate

That has crossed my mind.  That being in the material world had already corrupted Justice enough to want to stay here and then he did the demony thing of seducing Anders into accepting him.

[kromify]

 ugh... i'm doing a cousland playthrough and i can't decide who to romance. alistair makes sense because for once i can be queen, but zev is exerting a pull like only he and anders can.
maybe i should make an elf for zev  

[Sialater]

kromify wrote...

 ugh... i'm doing a cousland playthrough and i can't decide who to romance. alistair makes sense because for once i can be queen, but zev is exerting a pull like only he and anders can.
maybe i should make an elf for zev  

You can be queen and keep Zev on the side. Al won't be all that happy, though.

Morning, Anders Thread.

[kromify]

good afternoon sia

[Giggles_Manically]

It even gets a mention in DA2:

I heard that the King/Queen of Fereldan has an elven lover. Scandalous.

[Sialater]

I haven't had the heart to do that to Alistair, so they get separate Wardens.

I didn't really think anything of Justice in DA:OA other than... like Grunt, he's a lost puppy. A puppy that can rip your arms off and beat you with them, but a puppy nonetheless. And that's where the similarity ends.

Despite the foreshadowing, though... what they became together is not something I would have predicted.

[kromify]

i dunno. she's adventurous and naughty; the way bryce cousland treats her in the origin, and her fling with sweet dairren means i can't see her as someone going for someone as marriage-material as alistair, but more for a particular elf who is equally adventurous and naughty. i wouldn't have a problem if it wasn't for the cameos in da2 - i don't have a warden!alistair save.
(actually i deleted all my saves because i had so many. i could hardly remember what went on in each)

so now i have a cold manipulative mage king's mistress, and my current PT.

I NEED TO CHOOSE

ach! anders!kitty!rainbows

[CulturalGeekGirl]

My Dalish warden fell for Alistair like a complete fool, knowing practically nothing about human culture or nobility, so when he revealed himself to be a prince she was like "oh, that's cool. What, you thought I'd freak out or something?" It took her a long time to realize that he had to be made King, and then even longer to accept that she couldn't be queen. By the Landsmeet she was deeply bitter about human culture... everything from this Maker who had banished all memory of her true gods from the lands outside the forest to humans' stupid feelings about nobility and what was "appropriate."

She still loved Al and kept on as his mistress, but she also had a thing with Zev. She loved them both, I think, but was pretty... horribly pragmatic by the end of the game there.

Playing a Dalish warden as my very first one has skewed my perspective on this game incredibly, which is, I think, a testament to just how much Origins succeeded. It's also made me rethink a lot of things... can there be something valuable behind the mirror, worth all the horror needed to go through to get to it? Who is this Maker person, anyway? Is the maker any stronger or more constant than our vanished gods, or will he one day fall by the wayside too, making way for something old... or something new?

While reading up on the Elven gods I stumbled upon something curious. Something intriguing. Who is the father of the Elven pantheon?

Elgar'nan, god of Vengeance.

Oh, my Dalish Warden would be very pleased to meet our boys.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 juin 2011 - 05:16 .

[Sarielle]

Ambeth wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...
So in this instance, maybe Anders didn't put up enough defence against his influence? Didn't expect to confront such a friendly seeming demon? We're given hints that the more powerful the demon the more intelligent they are... perhaps Vengence is just a very clever demon? /devils advocate

That has crossed my mind.  That being in the material world had already corrupted Justice enough to want to stay here and then he did the demony thing of seducing Anders into accepting him.

I really DO think Justice as already corrupt, lol.

Let's put it this way. Based on his actions alone (talking a mage into letting him inhabit his body), if we had NOT seen Justice in the Fade in Awakenings to know his origin, would we still think he was a good guy? Or would we be screaming, "demon"?

I think people take him at face value because of what he calls himself and because we know he was good once. I don't think that really holds true anymore.

EDIT: And huh. I just realized you can send Anders away in Act 2. Can you send other companions off too?

Modifié par Sarielle, 12 juin 2011 - 05:28 .

[kromify]

i think there's an opportunity to send everyone away at some point except for varric

[Jon Jern_]

If you send Anders away in Act 2, Then what happens at the finale? Anders comes out of nowhere to blow up the chantry?

[MG800]

Kromify, where did your signature came from?
Trying to tickle Flemeth sounds like a fun way to commit suicide. Now I want to see it.

Flemeth->Andraste->Anders = this is not off-topic   

Jon Jern wrote...
If you send Anders away in Act 2, Then what happens at the finale? Anders comes out of nowhere to blow up the chantry?

Pretty much. 

Modifié par MG800, 12 juin 2011 - 06:47 .

[ashyraine]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

My Dalish warden fell for Alistair like a complete fool, knowing practically nothing about human culture or nobility, so when he revealed himself to be a prince she was like "oh, that's cool. What, you thought I'd freak out or something?" It took her a long time to realize that he had to be made King, and then even longer to accept that she couldn't be queen. By the Landsmeet she was deeply bitter about human culture... everything from this Maker who had banished all memory of her true gods from the lands outside the forest to humans' stupid feelings about nobility and what was "appropriate."

She still loved Al and kept on as his mistress, but she also had a thing with Zev. She loved them both, I think, but was pretty... horribly pragmatic by the end of the game there.

Playing a Dalish warden as my very first one has skewed my perspective on this game incredibly, which is, I think, a testament to just how much Origins succeeded. It's also made me rethink a lot of things... can there be something valuable behind the mirror, worth all the horror needed to go through to get to it? Who is this Maker person, anyway? Is the maker any stronger or more constant than our vanished gods, or will he one day fall by the wayside too, making way for something old... or something new?

While reading up on the Elven gods I stumbled upon something curious. Something intriguing. Who is the father of the Elven pantheon?

Elgar'nan, god of Vengeance.

Oh, my Dalish Warden would be very pleased to meet our boys.

My first playthrough was also on a Dalish warden (the little assasin that could) and it also skewed my views of the human religion in the DA universe. Because I made the same exact mistake with Alistair.. though I caught it before the landsmeet (some dialogue about him being prince in one of the camp convos) and dumped his ass for Zevran.

ANYWAY. All that was to say, I agree about the mirror. Also, since I don't really care about the chantry I sort of wanted a sort of "hell yeah!'  ::brofist:: option when the chantry went boom

[highcastle]

kromify wrote...

i think there's an opportunity to send everyone away at some point except for varric

Yes and no. If you lose a certain number of people, the game won't let others leave. For instance, either Fenris or Aveline can abandon you in the end-game, but not both. 

[kromify]

MG800 wrote...


Kromify, where did your signature came from?
Trying to tickle Flemeth sounds like a fun way to commit suicide. Now I want to see it.

Flemeth->Andraste->Anders = this is not off-topic   

i can't remember where i first heard it... but i use it as one of my character's saying in d&d. 
it has dragons so it's relevant to any da topic!