57020 réponses à ce sujet

[SurelyForth]

Xewaka wrote...

I think OP mispelled "for" in the title edit.

And yet you still managed to find your way in. Fantastic.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 14 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[Patchwork]

There's probably a lot of differing stories and rumours going around about what happened in Kirkwall. So all Cassandra knows is something big happened and the Champion was at the centre of it. Enter Verric with his version of the truth.

[leggywillow]

SurelyForth wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

I think OP mispelled "for" in the title edit.

And yet you still managed to find your way in! Fantastic.

Snap fight!

[upsettingshorts]

SurelyForth wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

I think OP mispelled "for" in the title edit.

And yet you still managed to find your way in. Fantastic.

Well he recognized the fact that this is clearly where he belongs.

[kromify]

ElleMullineux wrote...

kromify wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...
lmao - I love you Kromify

dawwwww! i love you too Ellie-bear!  <3<3

Want a sandwich?

ham please.  :innocent:

[DreamerM]

ipgd wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

But then why sit through the Champion's life story? Why not just ask "where's the Champion?"

Because the legend was different from the truth? It's never stated explicitly what that legend is, nor what Anders's future role in things is. Which I wouldn't take as indicative of anything, given they would have been spoiling their own game if there were an indication of his importance.

We learn bits of what the legend is. Remember Cassandra starts out certain that The Champion came to Kirkwall with the goal of "spreading subversion against the Chantry," and that he/she arrived with the other companions already, retreaved the idol from the Deep Roads on purpose in order to get it to Maredith and make her go nuts so the Chantry would look bad. This gives us some idea of the events that the Chantry heard.

I can understand Cassandra wanting to find Hawke if Anders is dead and the Champion is needed to fix the mess he made. But if Anders is alive, then he should REALLY be priority number one, for his symbolic value if nothing else, and the Champion is only really important in how s/he is connected to him, the guy who actually fired the first shot.

[Xewaka]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
I think OP mispelled "for" in the title edit.

And yet you still managed to find your way in. Fantastic.

Well he recognized the fact that this is clearly where he belongs.

And I wouldn't have it any other way.

[kromify]

DreamerM wrote...

We learn bits of what the legend is. Remember Cassandra starts out certain that The Champion came to Kirkwall with the goal of "spreading subversion against the Chantry," and that he/she arrived with the other companions already, retreaved the idol from the Deep Roads on purpose in order to get it to Maredith and make her go nuts so the Chantry would look bad. This gives us some idea of the events that the Chantry heard.
 

chantry propaganda.
IT WASN'T MEREDITH IT WAS ALL HAWKE LOOK HAWKE DROVE HER CRAZY LALALALALALAA!

Modifié par kromify, 14 juin 2011 - 10:36 .

[upsettingshorts]

Cassandra is interested in Hawke because of her belief in his/her potential to fix things.

If she was more interested in Anders I believe it would be more about justice or vengeance. Ironically.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 juin 2011 - 10:37 .

[kromify]

 it seems an appropriate time to throw this in  

[DreamerM]

kromify wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

We learn bits of what the legend is. Remember Cassandra starts out certain that The Champion came to Kirkwall with the goal of "spreading subversion against the Chantry," and that he/she arrived with the other companions already, retreaved the idol from the Deep Roads on purpose in order to get it to Maredith and make her go nuts so the Chantry would look bad. This gives us some idea of the events that the Chantry heard.

chantry propaganda.
IT WASN'T MEREDITH IT WAS ALL HAWKE LOOK HAWKE DROVE HER CRAZY LALALALALALAA!

Somehow Cassandra doesn't strike me as a person who deals in propaganda. Why would she even bother asking for the story if she thought she already knew what happened? If all she cares about is where Hawke is now, then why investigate what "really" happened?

[YamiSnuffles]

Who knew it took so long to slog through several dozen pages? How did I do this every morning in the early days of the thread? Since I don't feel like necroing any few day old posts, I'll just say...

kromify wrote...

 it seems an appropriate time to throw this in  
-snip-

That comic makes me laugh every time. Especially Anders disguise and Hawke's explanation.

[kromify]

DreamerM wrote...

kromify wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

We learn bits of what the legend is. Remember Cassandra starts out certain that The Champion came to Kirkwall with the goal of "spreading subversion against the Chantry," and that he/she arrived with the other companions already, retreaved the idol from the Deep Roads on purpose in order to get it to Maredith and make her go nuts so the Chantry would look bad. This gives us some idea of the events that the Chantry heard.

chantry propaganda.
IT WASN'T MEREDITH IT WAS ALL HAWKE LOOK HAWKE DROVE HER CRAZY LALALALALALAA!

Somehow Cassandra doesn't strike me as a person who deals in propaganda. Why would she even bother asking for the story if she thought she already knew what happened? If all she cares about is where Hawke is now, then why investigate what "really" happened?

nah that's not what i meant. if the chantry spreads it around that meredith lost her marbles because of hawke then she becomes the injured party. but mostly i was being facetious again  :innocent:

[kromify]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Who knew it took so long to slog through several dozen pages? How did I do this every morning in the early days of the thread? Since I don't feel like necroing any few day old posts, I'll just say...

kromify wrote...

 it seems an appropriate time to throw this in  
-snip-

That comic makes me laugh every time. Especially Anders disguise and Hawke's explanation.

YAMI!!! HELLOOOOO!  how was your week off?!   

this comic gets me too  

[YamiSnuffles]

kromify wrote...

YAMI!!! HELLOOOOO!  how was your week off?!   

this comic gets me too  

-snippy-

Yessss. I love that comic too.

My week off was pretty fun. Although, I think I was starting to go a little crazy having absolutely no access to the internet. Plus I kept wondering just what was going on in the Anders Thread. I had Anders withdrawals I think since I had absolutely no one to talk to about our favorite crazypants mage.

[Frishmet]

DreamerM wrote...

Here's the thing: this whole game is a story that Varric is telling Cassandra....about the Champion.

Why is Cassandra asking about The Champion? It seems to me that if Anders was the one who blew up the Chantry and brought on this war, why isn't she asking about HIM? Did she not know he blew up the chantry? Unlikely, he wasn't shy about it and there were a ton of witnesses. Did she think he did it on the Champion's orders? That might make sense if the Champion sides with the mages and lets Anders live, but that's only one option. Why would a Hawke who sided with the Templars to restore order in Kirkwall order Anders to blow up the Chantry? As a power ploy? Because Hawke wants to bring about the execution of all Mages? Why? And why kill Anders for just doing what he's told?

And what's more, how is The Champion more important to this mess then Anders was? The guy is a Bill Ayres/Leon Trotsky/That Guy who Shot Franz Ferdinand level political focal point, and it seems to me like he is where Cassandra should be focusing her attention. The Champion is just one more person who had to clean up after him.

It's probably because of the specific stories/rumors Cassandra has heard. After all, she has the book that Varric wrote and he's made Hawke the main character. The rumors (and probably the stories in the book) are proably exaggerations and completely unreliable but she's just going on what information is available. Also, even if she knows that Anders is the one who blew up the chantry (and it seems reasonable that she does) he, as a madman, or a tool, or a revolutionary zealot, would not be her first choice of someone who could help calm the situation down.

Remember, her main goal seems to be to try to stop a war, I see her as simply trying to find out as much as possible about the events that led up to what happened at the Chantry/Gallows. Hawke probably just happens to be the one the rumor mill has made into the central figure and possibly even a leader (of the mages or templars, depending on which was chosen) in the events at Kirkwall.

[kromify]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

kromify wrote...

YAMI!!! HELLOOOOO!  how was your week off?!   

this comic gets me too  

-snippy-

Yessss. I love that comic too.

My week off was pretty fun. Although, I think I was starting to go a little crazy having absolutely no access to the internet. Plus I kept wondering just what was going on in the Anders Thread. I had Anders withdrawals I think since I had absolutely no one to talk to about our favorite crazypants mage.

awww i can sympathise. my week without wasterribly dull   but at least you're back now   

[BlueMew]

Melca36 wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

I wonder what the "default" fate for Anders will be when Dragon Age 3 rolls around. I know the "default" Dragon Age 2 setting had Alistair made King, the Warden, Leiliana, and Zevran still alive.... and so on. You can make a case that that's the most conventionally "happy" ending possible in that game.

So what will have happened to Anders "defaultly?"

Look at the three different scenarios they added to DA:2

They will have a dead Anders default but they won't diss the fans who kept Anders alive just to appeal to the haters.

While Anders likely won't be in it, there will likely be mentions of him if the player kept him alive.

Hmm, I hope so. Otherwise it would just be stupid. My Hawke spent ten years of his life to keep the man alive and then death by canonization happens? Ugh, I hope not.

[Frishmet]

BlueMew wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

I wonder what the "default" fate for Anders will be when Dragon Age 3 rolls around. I know the "default" Dragon Age 2 setting had Alistair made King, the Warden, Leiliana, and Zevran still alive.... and so on. You can make a case that that's the most conventionally "happy" ending possible in that game.

So what will have happened to Anders "defaultly?"

Look at the three different scenarios they added to DA:2

They will have a dead Anders default but they won't diss the fans who kept Anders alive just to appeal to the haters.

While Anders likely won't be in it, there will likely be mentions of him if the player kept him alive.

Hmm, I hope so. Otherwise it would just be stupid. My Hawke spent ten years of his life to keep the man alive and then death by canonization happens? Ugh, I hope not.

"death by canonization" 
*snort*  That's awesome

[CulturalGeekGirl]

berelinde wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

Btw - Love the Witches from Discworld, hands down my faves. I want to be Nanny Ogg when I grow up.

To burble a bit on this subject...

If faced with the problem of Anders, Vetinari would use him (or have him quietly assasinated by a non-templar), Granny would try to reason with him. And Nanny Ogg would just get him drunk. Not even Justice can prevent Nanny Ogg from getting you drunk. It'd break the laws of physics.

Nanny Ogg + Varric = THE BEST OF ALL TIMES

Haha, Nanny Ogg and Varric are just so accepting of the crazy in their lives. And Nanny Ogg has no problem with dangerous and crazy, she just smothers it in her bossoms ala Greebo. I've now got images of Nanny Ogg smothering Anders and my brain isn't objecting.

Anders needs that. Very, very badly.

I can just imagine her pulling him into her cottage (by the ear, probably, if she could reach that high), sitting him down, and stuffing him with tea and biscuits (made by one of her daughters-in-law) until he relaxed enough to start talking. Then she'd listen to everything he had to say, puffing on her pipe all the while, and when he was done, she'd slap his thigh, tell him that all he needed was a good romp, and then my head would explode.

Or maybe she'd wheedle Vengeance into becoming Justice again. Or henpeck him enough to voluntarily move out of Anders's skull. She's awfully good at that.

Granny Weatherwax would drag Anders into her hut, scowl, and close the door behind them. You wouldn't hear a peep for quite some time, but when Anders came out, he'd be rather pale and shaken, but he'd be himself again. And Granny Weatherwax would look very, very tired.

That description of what would happen with Anders and Granny is so very true. Though Anders would probably be pretty haunted and humbled for a while by whatever Granny had to do for him, regardless of the fact that she does it for everyone, all the time. Because it's her job.

I realized a long time ago that one of the problems with creating a Discworld-like universe or setting a game in Discworld is that there are far too many people in that universe who can pretty much fix anything: Vetinari, Nanny Ogg, Granny Weatherwax, Susan, the UU Faculty. Heck, I'm pretty sure that Moist von Lipwig and Tiffany Aching would both be capable of handling the Anders and Mages and Templars situation. I can just picture Anders sitting on a stool in Tiffany's barn looking very small and chagrined while a tiny witch lectures and pities him. And the goes outside to fix everything, again.

Can you imagine Anders at Unseen University? That's even better than the "screw you guys, I'm going to Hogwarts!" idea. Though he'd probably be working with Esk to get more women into the university... because it's just to do so, not because he wants more variety in his hot makeouts. Certainly not! Still, he'd appreciate the fact that Ankh Morpork is a city where the mages are technically completely autonomous but haven't gone power mad in any way, shape, or form and mostly use their power and influence to get good seats at the theater and have constant banquets.

Man, now I ship Anders/Esk so hard. I think the problem is that I ship Anders/anyone so hard. Also, if I ever make a non-Fenris-romancing Mage!Hawke, I think I'll name her Eskarina.

One of the fundamental issues with Thedas is that nobody is strong, powerful, or clever enough to have any real impact on anything. Even killing the Archdemon just prevented the blight didn't jumpstart any real lasting social change or give the Warden any real access to political power. Which is probably rather more realistic than having Xanatoses, Granny Weatherwaxes, and Batmans running around loose, changing the world all the time. It's still very sad, though, because a single extremely wise, reasonable, and compassionate person with considerable personal force of will is pretty much all Anders would have needed in order to be more stable and better off. One of the most interesting things about Hawke is that s/he's just this guy, you know? Just a person reacting to things extremely well not some great mastermind or hypercompetent specialist.

There are two kinds of tragedies: the ones where you think "well, nobody could have prevented that," and the ones where you think "there were so many times that a single small action could have prevented all of that." I enjoy the former more, but DA2 is the latter... and it bothers me more, which I think is the point. Tragedies are supposed to bother you.

/ramble

[Miri1984]

I'm pretty sure they won't kill him off if you kept him alive. The managed pretty well with Zev, Alistair, Nate and Leliana. They're more likely to resurrect him by miracle than kill him off, although I don't think that's likely, considering they've already done it once .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Miri1984 wrote...

I'm pretty sure they won't kill him off if you kept him alive. The managed pretty well with Zev, Alistair, Nate and Leliana. They're more likely to resurrect him by miracle than kill him off, although I don't think that's likely, considering they've already done it once .

They've said that if Anders is dead in DA2, he isn't coming back.

What I kind of hope for is that if Anders is dead, Vengeance or Justice is still around and PISSED. Not in Anders' body (because I think that would be too close to the 'bringing him back' thing they said they wouldn't do) but there was a courtyard  of dead mages/templars around when Anders died, so... yeah, in some corpse. If Anders is alive, he's still sometimes in control, and able to moderate J/V's actions somewhat. If not, you just get word of this crazy pissed-off spirit wreaking havoc.

At first, I was hoping that if Anders were alive he'd have some significant cameo/position in the next game. Now I'm kind of hoping the opposite... if he's just hinted at, we can arrange our headcanons however we like. If we meet him again, what he's "like" now will be cemented in the canon, which will make me a saddish panda. Especially since I think romance/nonromanced friended/rivaled etc Anders would probably be significantly different people.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 14 juin 2011 - 11:27 .

[ademska]

BlueMew wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Look at the three different scenarios they added to DA:2

They will have a dead Anders default but they won't diss the fans who kept Anders alive just to appeal to the haters.

While Anders likely won't be in it, there will likely be mentions of him if the player kept him alive.

Hmm, I hope so. Otherwise it would just be stupid. My Hawke spent ten years of his life to keep the man alive and then death by canonization happens? Ugh, I hope not.

no doubt. ol' garrett and marian and p fond of their crazy boyfriend and busy themselves with crazy mage war hijinks soooo...

it'll probably be a choose-your-scenario like da2.

The Fugitive: The Champion, finding the Chantry largely composed of big meanies and in troo wuv with the guy who bombed them, allied with the mages of Kirkwall and fled the city with his/her boyfriend.
The Waffler: The Champion sided with the Templars following the Chantry explosion but let Anders live and all the other mages live because he/she was an indecisive idiot.
Knight of Phoenix: Thinking every mage largely too stupid to tie their own bootlaces, The Champion killed the crap out of Anders and bulldozed the rest of them.

Modifié par ademska, 14 juin 2011 - 11:29 .

[ademska]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

I'm pretty sure they won't kill him off if you kept him alive. The managed pretty well with Zev, Alistair, Nate and Leliana. They're more likely to resurrect him by miracle than kill him off, although I don't think that's likely, considering they've already done it once .

They've said that if Anders is dead in DA2, he isn't coming back.

What I kind of hope for is that if Anders is dead, Vengeance or Justice is still around and PISSED. Not in Anders' body (because I think that would be too close to the 'bringing him back' thing they said they wouldn't do) but there was a courtyard  of dead mages/templars around when Anders died, so... yeah, in some corpse. If Anders is alive, he's still sometimes in control, and able to moderate J/V's actions somewhat. If not, you just get word of this crazy pissed-off spirit wreaking havoc.

At first, I was hoping that if Anders were alive he'd have some significant cameo/position in the next game. Now I'm kind of hoping the opposite... if he's just hinted at, we can arrange our headcanons however we like. If we meet him again, what he's "like" now will be cemented in the canon, which will make me a saddish panda. Especially since I think romance/nonromanced friended/rivaled etc Anders would probably be significantly different people.

i never hope for concrete cameos of previously major characters, because it unfailingly destroys the headcanon i build

i'm lookin at you, leliana

we're p similar in our anders views, and i know i would be devastated if he was introduced in a blanket fashion with the only variable factor being whether he lived or died. he's so completely different depending on path and romance, it would just be a huge let-down and, frankly, disservice

[YamiSnuffles]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

At first, I was hoping that if Anders were alive he'd have some significant cameo/position in the next game. Now I'm kind of hoping the opposite... if he's just hinted at, we can arrange our headcanons however we like. If we meet him again, what he's "like" now will be cemented in the canon, which will make me a saddish panda. Especially since I think romance/nonromanced friended/rivaled etc Anders would probably be significantly different people.

This is sort of the way I feel about it. I think anyone who let him live probably have very different ideas of what he/their Hawke are up to in the following years. If he only shows up in- at most- a small cameo (if alive, obviously), then that leaves personal canon mostly intact. Plus, he can always play a bigger role in crazy rumor/legend form. That doesn't even require him to be alive and we still get MOAR Anders.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 14 juin 2011 - 11:37 .